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(Slate)   Yo, dawg, I heard you like jets, so I took your Malaysian jet and put it inside another jet   (slate.com) divider line 133
    More: Strange, Malaysia Flight, Malaysia, Singapore Airlines, flights, test pilots  
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18000 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 7:01 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



133 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-17 05:43:12 PM
It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.
 
2014-03-17 06:07:36 PM
Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?
 
2014-03-17 06:12:51 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?


My mind went to Bond, too. Different movie, though.

iansadler.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-17 06:36:57 PM

nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.


For a short time, yeah... After all, if sandpeople can ride in single file to hide their numbers, surely planes can, too...

... until your flight path is no longer directly in line with the radar station, that is. Then, unless the following plane is right on the ass of the leading plane, there will be separation in the returns. And even if it is, you get a return that will be too long.

It depends on the resolution of the radar, of course, but this theory would also require that the radar over a major flight corridor, normally filled with planes following other planes, is low resolution enough that it can't detect separation between two planes of a few hundred meters? And this in a country that is constantly worried about attacks from its neighbor?
 
2014-03-17 06:40:34 PM
that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.
 
2014-03-17 06:42:22 PM
For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?
 
2014-03-17 07:04:26 PM

calbert: that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.


Do you need a hug?
 
2014-03-17 07:07:23 PM

calbert: story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"


1) it's a fark meme,
2) since the second plane would have been undetectable due to its proximity to the first, as far as the radar was concerned yeah that second plane was "inside" the other. "Inside" it radar footprint.
 
2014-03-17 07:10:59 PM
Based on INMARSAT pings, at the last ping, the plane was somewhere along these two arcs:
theaviationist.com
Last night on the NBC evening news, someone apparently told the graphics guy to go make up a map showing a couple of arcs around Australia and Indonesia. And this was the result:
i60.tinypic.com
Which clearly means that Sir Mix-A-Lot is behind the whole thing.
i58.tinypic.com
/Heh, heh. "Behind."
 
2014-03-17 07:11:02 PM
OK, Jack Bauer did it
 
2014-03-17 07:11:03 PM
Their radar isn't 3D, is it? You don't need to be in trail at all if you're above or below it.
 
2014-03-17 07:11:31 PM

nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.


That covers A LOT of ground.

Since it now appears that cockpit communication and ACARs were cut off simultaneously, I'm sticking with decompression or fire followed by hypoxia and disorientation.
 
2014-03-17 07:14:13 PM
Ivan used to pull that shiat all the time.  At least in the movies.

"Goose, you see a trailer?"
"Negative Merlin... looks like he's a single."

/sneaky farking Russians
 
2014-03-17 07:16:15 PM
Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?
 
2014-03-17 07:16:37 PM
Holy shiat, there's two of them!
 
2014-03-17 07:16:51 PM

Theaetetus: The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence.


Thanks for mining my mind.
 
2014-03-17 07:17:53 PM
And here I was hoping for a knight-rider-in-the-sky theory.
 
2014-03-17 07:18:35 PM
A lot of things are possible, but the likelihood of that happening is remote at best.  Remember, it is a big ass sky out there and finding another jet to tail and getting close enough to mask radar signature isn't something anyone could count on.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:16 PM
It's jets. Jets all the way down.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:21 PM
It's almost like nobody has any clue what happened.

I think part if this story is the incompetence of the Malaysian government and it's institutions.  A country with it's shiat together would have probably found the plane by now.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:36 PM
I bet it was on a treadmill inside that other jet. But that raises another interesting question...
 
2014-03-17 07:20:56 PM
What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


citadellegin.com
lh4.googleusercontent.com
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2014-03-17 07:21:15 PM

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.
 
2014-03-17 07:21:50 PM
 
2014-03-17 07:22:14 PM

calbert: that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.


Sounds like someone is 0 for 922 on links submitted.  No wonder you are bitter.  I had 5 links accepted, back in the day before sponsored content.  Back when it was safe to not lock your doors at night, and neighbors knew each others names.
 
2014-03-17 07:22:34 PM
The jet is caught in a time warp. It took a jump to the left, then a step to the right.
 
2014-03-17 07:23:33 PM
Slate headline: The Craziest Malaysia Flight 370 Theory Yet
Slate article: Keith Ledgerwood put forward the most elaborate and interesting suggestion we've heard yet.
 
2014-03-17 07:27:12 PM
Everyone knows by now that all the crews and passengers were killed by snakes. Then the plane flew on til it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Snakes on a plane. Book it, done.
 
2014-03-17 07:27:56 PM
i.imgur.com

Piece-a-cake
 
2014-03-17 07:29:43 PM

MFAWG: nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.

That covers A LOT of ground.

Since it now appears that cockpit communication and ACARs were cut off simultaneously, I'm sticking with decompression or fire followed by hypoxia and disorientation.


I thought the current theory was the 2 transponders were turned off separately and through normal shutdown procedures, thus implying that they were taken off-line by humans rather than by a disaster?
 
2014-03-17 07:32:53 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?


I thought of "You Only Live Twice"

www.bigflax.com
 
2014-03-17 07:33:26 PM

jmayson: big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?

So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.


i910.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-17 07:34:22 PM

rbuzby: It's almost like nobody has any clue what happened.

I think part if this story is the incompetence of the Malaysian government and it's institutions.  A country with it's shiat together would have probably found the plane by now.


I'm really starting to think that the last military blip they claim was 370 wasn't it at all. I think it was another plane, there was a miscommunication or a mistake made identifying it with all of the commotion that was going on, and some official instead of double checking and verifying for sure what was going on, ran to the nearest camera and declared that they had a radar reading from a military radar there. And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.
 
2014-03-17 07:35:09 PM
fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-03-17 07:36:36 PM
ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already
 
2014-03-17 07:37:04 PM

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


Following another plane of the same type is relatively easy, since they have the same performance.  The hardest part is finding the other plane and joining up.  If they are just a bit ahead of you, catching up is hard since  you need a lot more speed to close the distance.  Getting the converging angles right on the first shot is unlikely since airliners in cruise don't have much extra speed to play with.

Most radar controllers filter out primary targets to reduce clutter, and even if they are looking at primary targets, a larger then normal target or two targets close together at altitude would not be noticed if there is a corresponding transponder target.

is it possible MH370 shadowed another plane?  Yes.  Probable?  Not really.
 
2014-03-17 07:38:51 PM

Agatha Crispy: ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already


What the hell does that have to do with Benghazi?
 
2014-03-17 07:39:51 PM
For the duration of the flight they were disassembling the plane piece by piece and dropping the parts to awaiting boats that transported them to be reassembled in an Iranian megafortress.
Got a little tricky there near the end but they managed somehow.
 
2014-03-17 07:40:55 PM
What if the other plane was a bizjet flown by someone you knew - he flies a flight plan you go dark you join in formation over the ocean and fly across India to one of the 'stan countries.

Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Then it could be aliens.
 
2014-03-17 07:45:30 PM

ongbok: Agatha Crispy: ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already

What the hell does that have to do with Benghazi?


That's the joke.jpg
 
2014-03-17 07:46:32 PM
I'm still going with the theory that Langoliers are assholes

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-17 07:49:19 PM

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


Let's pretend for a moment that MH370 was 500 feet below and 500 feet behind - a total of about 215 m away tail to nose. This should be far enough below to be out of wake turbulence at that range and far enough behind to maintain track visually through the cockpit windows (together with knowing the filed flight plan and listening to ATC conversation).

Let's then also pretend you're a bored radar operator in a third world country in the middle of the night. Do you think you'd really care (or even be able to notice, depending on age of the equipment) that the radar return from a flight that is *supposed* to be there is twice the size it should be - a return accompanied by a transponder response tied to a large aircraft to begin with?

The Malaysians apparently didn't care at the time that MH370 flew back across the country and it *wasn't* supposed to be there. If this is what happened I doubt anyone in the region could either detect the separate aircraft or care if they did at the time they did.

This theory is as good as any other at this point. The only theories I don't put much into are the ones where the plane just drops out of the sky - and that's probably my bias based on the 777's illustrious history.
 
2014-03-17 07:51:43 PM
Has it been confirmed that the pilot's family "left" him the day before the flight?  That was reported somewhere.  If so, he probably crashed it into ocean (or sea) after turning off the transponder.  Suicide, with a twist of making it hard for people o figure out what happened.  To teach them a lesson or something.

Or, aliens.
 
2014-03-17 07:53:22 PM

clear_prop: Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?

Following another plane of the same type is relatively easy, since they have the same performance.  The hardest part is finding the other plane and joining up.  If they are just a bit ahead of you, catching up is hard since  you need a lot more speed to close the distance.  Getting the converging angles right on the first shot is unlikely since airliners in cruise don't have much extra speed to play with.


I wasn't talking about difficulty of staying following the other plane because it might outrun you- I was talking about the difficulty of following the other plane  at less than 150m with your stick shaking all over the place because of jetwash.
You're a pilot... In your small plane, I'm sure you could happily follow a small plane of the same size one mile behind it for hours. But could you do it 10 feet behind it? For the same amount of time?

Most radar controllers filter out primary targets to reduce clutter, and even if they are looking at primary targets, a larger then normal target or two targets close together at altitude would not be noticed if there is a corresponding transponder target.

Sure, but they still have to stay within that tight separation, for the entire time they're in radar range.

is it possible MH370 shadowed another plane?  Yes.  Probable?  Not really.

As I said, it's theoretically possible for a few radar sweeps, from a single radar station. But for two hours while it flies over India towards Afghanistan or something, with lots of different radar stations at different angles to the flight path, including high resolution military radar as you get close to the Pakistani border? Not unless the planes were just about physically touching at that point.
 
2014-03-17 07:56:06 PM
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-17 07:56:09 PM

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Based on INMARSAT pings, at the last ping, the plane was somewhere along these two arcs:
[theaviationist.com image 685x550]
Last night on the NBC evening news, someone apparently told the graphics guy to go make up a map showing a couple of arcs around Australia and Indonesia. And this was the result:
[i60.tinypic.com image 850x423]
Which clearly means that Sir Mix-A-Lot is behind the whole thing.
[i58.tinypic.com image 850x423]
/Heh, heh. "Behind."


Thanks for Sir Mix-a-lot, but are you telling me that based on a satellite ping, the plane could have been anywhere along those arcs marked in red?  They're each about the size of China.
 
2014-03-17 08:03:00 PM
www.theforce.net
 
2014-03-17 08:03:09 PM
speaking as a former u.s. army air traffic controller. having spent time in Germany for three Reforger exercises. and time in little place called Granada.
I got nothin'.
however if you see me on a flight, you can "thank me for my service" by buying me drinks!
 
2014-03-17 08:03:15 PM

RoyBatty: Holy shiat, there's two of them!


Ah-choo!

Oh my god, a dozen more of them... And a blip! A big shiny blip, and it's slowly moving south!
 
2014-03-17 08:06:36 PM

bigbobowski: speaking as a former u.s. army air traffic controller. having spent time in Germany for three Reforger exercises. and time in little place called Granada.
I got nothin'.
however if you see me on a flight, you can "thank me for my service" by buying me drinks!


Thanks for your service - didn't know there was an Army base in Granada, Spain
 
2014-03-17 08:06:36 PM

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


Nice try, Lao Che
 
2014-03-17 08:07:15 PM

usafdave: Ivan used to pull that shiat all the time.  At least in the movies.

"Goose, you see a trailer?"
"Negative Merlin... looks like he's a single."

/sneaky farking Russians


starsmedia.ign.com

Wrong, make that five!
There's five, sir.


/Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full
 
2014-03-17 08:16:04 PM
i1207.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-17 08:16:54 PM
Why don't they just check the black box on this thing and be done with it???

/Ducks
//Covers
///Runs away giggling
 
2014-03-17 08:17:53 PM
The NTSB concludes that future plane-following-plane hijinks can be prevented by the use of side mirrors.
 
2014-03-17 08:27:32 PM
So it's like that one scene in Down Periscope?
 
2014-03-17 08:35:18 PM

exboyracer: What if the other plane was a bizjet flown by someone you knew - he flies a flight plan you go dark you join in formation over the ocean and fly across India to one of the 'stan countries.

Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Then it could be aliens.


FYI .. the transponder is set by the pilot or copilot with a 4 digit code that ATC gives you, it's not in any way tied to the specific aircraft.
 
2014-03-17 08:39:43 PM
You know what? I give up on this thing. Malaysia isn't helping at all. More stupid theory comes out every day. I quit! I'll wait until something concrete comes out about this. Hopefully it will be within the next 20 years or so.
 
2014-03-17 08:46:14 PM
They did something like this in Reamde.
 
2014-03-17 08:47:05 PM

fenian-: [www.theforce.net image 850x476]


Best theory yet.
 
2014-03-17 08:47:48 PM

Theaetetus: As I said, it's theoretically possible for a few radar sweeps, from a single radar station. But for two hours while it flies over India towards Afghanistan or something, with lots of different radar stations at different angles to the flight path, including high resolution military radar as you get close to the Pakistani border? Not unless the planes were just about physically touching at that point.


Primary radar, even military primary radar, has lots of noise in the signal.  Two blips from a known transponder shown on the secondary radar isn't going to be noticed.

Flying a loose formation at 150m is not hard, even in a big jet.  Match the power settings of the lead jet, and you can sit behind him all day.  Fly just slightly above the lead jet and the wake turbulence isn't an issue.  Once you match power settings and are in position, it isn't too tough to fly a loose formation.  And yes, even in a big jet, 150m is a loose formation.

I fly formation in dis-similar aircraft.  The hardest part is the join up and not running over the lead when I was in the faster plane and flying slot.  Given that MH370 supposedly shadowed another 777, the speeds would match so the join up is the only challenge, and its a big one given that the planes were on completely different flight paths.  When I've flown formation, we've all left the same airport together, and still catching the lead plane often requires them to fly slowly while the last planes catch up.
 
2014-03-17 08:48:06 PM
This would explain climbing above the service ceiling of the 777 to 45,000'   This extra altitude could be traded for speed to catch up with the SIA68 flight in just a few minutes as opposed to changing relative mach which would take some time to possible catch the SIA flight.
 
2014-03-17 08:48:12 PM
As unlikely as the scenario is, the captain was a military instructor pilot.  If anyone could pull it off, he's the guy.
 
2014-03-17 08:49:08 PM
Yeah, nice try. It's a novel by Steve Martini.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rule-Nine-Madriani-Novels-ebook/dp/B003M69 KZ K/ref=pd_sim_kstore_12?ie=UTF8&refRID=04AHY1NDYX6WDW6JR0EB

In the story, a terrorist hijacks a plane just this exact way to drop a hyperbaric bomb on the Supreme Court.

Try to be at least original with your conspiracy theories.
 
2014-03-17 08:50:55 PM

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


Because that is how the system is designed.
You do

exboyracer: Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)


Wow, don't have a clue how the system works eh Bucky?
 
2014-03-17 08:51:46 PM
Gee this would be a bad time for Photoshoppers to find hiding places.
 
2014-03-17 08:51:55 PM

petec: exboyracer: What if the other plane was a bizjet flown by someone you knew - he flies a flight plan you go dark you join in formation over the ocean and fly across India to one of the 'stan countries.

Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Then it could be aliens.

FYI .. the transponder is set by the pilot or copilot with a 4 digit code that ATC gives you, it's not in any way tied to the specific aircraft.


Mode S has an individual code per aircraft that is sent in addition to the 4-digit code dialed in by the pilot.  But Mode S codes can be changed by any avionics technician since they are assigned to an aircraft and if the transponder needs to be replaced, they need to be able to program the code for that aircraft into the new transponder,
 
2014-03-17 08:52:56 PM

Zazie_in_SFO: This would explain climbing above the service ceiling of the 777 to 45,000'   This extra altitude could be traded for speed to catch up with the SIA68 flight in just a few minutes as opposed to changing relative mach which would take some time to possible catch the SIA flight.


It doesn't work that way.  The speed lost in the climb would put it further behind.
 
2014-03-17 08:53:29 PM
img15.imageshack.us
 
2014-03-17 08:54:46 PM
Screw it.  Time to drop a couple of these babies in the Indian Ocean and achieve maximum trolling status...

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-17 09:06:06 PM
That's the key to all our stealth technology, no transponders!

/the facepalm, it burns
 
2014-03-17 09:16:36 PM

Zazie_in_SFO: This extra altitude could be traded for speed to catch up with the SIA68 flight


clear_prop: Zazie_in_SFO:  It doesn't work that way.  The speed lost in the climb would put it further behind.


Beautiful.
 
2014-03-17 09:18:32 PM

calbert: that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"


www.freakingnews.com
 
2014-03-17 09:19:36 PM
www.wearysloth.com

Not if you stay in his baffles, Sea-man Beaumont, not if you stay in his baffles.  Come up right behind his propeller engines and he'll be as deaf as a post.
 
2014-03-17 09:26:28 PM

iron_city_ap: That's the key to all our stealth technology, no transponders!

/the facepalm, it burns


If i was a betting man, I'd guess 40-year-old broken-down soviet-era equipment, poor operator training, ineffective procedures, and a grossly inept command chain probably had something to do with it as well.
 
2014-03-17 09:29:18 PM

ongbok: Agatha Crispy: ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already

What the hell does that have to do with Benghazi?


Sorry - I read how you said how incompetently the situation was being handled, how officials were running to cameras to declare untruths, and how they were too embarrassed to admit it was a mistake and missed the Malaysian part.
 
2014-03-17 09:38:40 PM

clear_prop: I fly formation in dis-similar aircraft.  The hardest part is the join up and not running over the lead when I was in the faster plane and flying slot.  Given that MH370 supposedly shadowed another 777, the speeds would match so the join up is the only challenge, and its a big one given that the planes were on completely different flight paths.  When I've flown formation, we've all left the same airport together, and still catching the lead plane often requires them to fly slowly while the last planes catch up.


All my experience in formation flying has been in the same type of aircraft as my lead or wing, but I think an airliner in cruise doing pretty much the worst thing (straight, level and fast) a lead could do for the wing to join up short of actually maneuvering to avoid him. Without a bunch of excess speed available, that's going to be a long, slow process.

That said, if you could get there this becomes a more plausible hypothesis than some others floating around.
 
2014-03-17 09:49:24 PM

fusillade762: Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?

My mind went to Bond, too. Different movie, though.

[iansadler.files.wordpress.com image 850x426]


Yeah my mind went to bond to, but an even different movie..

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-17 09:51:12 PM

Rapmaster2000: Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?

I thought of "You Only Live Twice"

[www.bigflax.com image 600x342]


Curses!
 
2014-03-17 09:51:43 PM

StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]


What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?

i141.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-17 09:58:27 PM

trappedspirit: StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]

What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?

[i141.photobucket.com image 599x491]


It's a whale
 
2014-03-17 10:00:26 PM
When a Farker suggested it days ago, I said it was the stupidest theory ever.

If you could get close enough behind to hide on radar, you'd be riding in a wake of low pressure air. It causes planes to fall right out of the sky.

Why don't the people who suggest this suggest flying above or below the other plane? No dangerous turbulence, and you don't show up on radar? (Well I'm not sure about newer radar)
 
2014-03-17 10:00:42 PM

trappedspirit: StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]

What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?

[i141.photobucket.com image 599x491]


trappedspirit: StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]

What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?

[i141.photobucket.com image 599x491]


Your plane is over 700 feet long.
 
2014-03-17 10:01:05 PM

petec: exboyracer: What if the other plane was a bizjet flown by someone you knew - he flies a flight plan you go dark you join in formation over the ocean and fly across India to one of the 'stan countries.

Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Then it could be aliens.

FYI .. the transponder is set by the pilot or copilot with a 4 digit code that ATC gives you, it's not in any way tied to the specific aircraft.


That is a code that atc asks you to squawk -- My 1969 c-150 did only that - newer Mode S transponders transmit call sign.

FYI
 
2014-03-17 10:08:09 PM

trappedspirit: StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]

What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?


I can answer this: those of us who would rather be outside enjoying nature are called "outdoor enthusiasts", while those who prefer air conditioning and couches and TV are considered "normal".
 
2014-03-17 10:10:18 PM

trappedspirit: StopLurkListen: What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


[citadellegin.com image 850x214]
[lh4.googleusercontent.com image 850x1064]
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 850x1136]

What's an outdoor enthusiast?

Someone who buys outdoors?


I just noticed the underwater plane in your picture, lol. What is circles in red? Can't see anything.
 
2014-03-17 10:11:04 PM

nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.


The only dumber one I've heard is that the plane was hit by a meteor.
 
2014-03-17 10:15:35 PM
They also did something like this with fighter jets in Debt of Honor by Tom Clancy.

Although, the Boeing 777-200ER has a wingspan of 199 ft. 11 in. and a length of 209 ft. 1 in. For comparison, a B-52 Stratofortress heavy strategic bomber has a wingspan of 185 ft. 0 in., and a length of 159 ft. 4 in. A Tupolev Tu-160 Blackjack heavy strategic bomber has a wingspan of 189 ft. 9 in. (20 deg. sweep), and a length of 177 ft. 6 in.

Point being, the 777 is the size of aircraft that nuclear-armed states such as India and Pakistan would probably be twitchy about if one should suddenly show up on their radar screens without a broadcasting transponder.
 
2014-03-17 10:19:21 PM
I'm thinking one of the pilots incapacitated the other one something in his drink maybe i don't know.  He then turned the plane flew across Malaysia avoiding radar turned north to avoid Indonesian radar.  he then turned it south flew out to the middle of the Indian Ocean and crashed the plane, pilot suicide.  He can explain the the changes of direction by saying we got turbulence up ahead have to make some flight plan adjustments or whatever, I mean is anyone really going to question the captain.  Also it was the middle of the night so not like people could see much outside the window if they were even awake.  By the time anyone noticed anything was up when the sun can up and they were in the middle of the ocean they cant call anyone because I doubt that there is much cell service in the middle of the Indian Ocean.  As for why he wouldn't just crash on the normal flight path, if they cant find the plane they can't prove that he crashed the thing.
 
2014-03-17 10:35:01 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-17 10:37:28 PM

slykens1: Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?

Let's pretend for a moment that MH370 was 500 feet below and 500 feet behind - a total of about 215 m away tail to nose. This should be far enough below to be out of wake turbulence at that range and far enough behind to maintain track visually through the cockpit windows (together with knowing the filed flight plan and listening to ATC conversation).

Let's then also pretend you're a bored radar operator in a third world country in the middle of the night. Do you think you'd really care (or even be able to notice, depending on age of the equipment) that the radar return from a flight that is *supposed* to be there is twice the size it should be - a return accompanied by a transponder response tied to a large aircraft to begin with?

The Malaysians apparently didn't care at the time that MH370 flew back across the country and it *wasn't* supposed to be there. If this is what happened I doubt anyone in the region could either detect the separate aircraft or care if they did at the time they did.

This theory is as good as any other at this point. The only theories I don't put much into are the ones where the plane just drops out of the sky - and that's probably my bias based on the 777's illustrious history.


The 777 does indeed have an excellent safety record, but it's getting on a bit now. Could MH370 be the first incident related to this warning?

Months before Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 mysteriously vanished, US regulators warned of a "cracking and corrosion" problem on Boeing 777s that could lead to a mid-air break-up and drastic drop in cabin pressure.

The revelation comes amid a desperate search for traces of the plane with 239 people on board, which lost contact with air traffic control early on Saturday, about an hour after take-off from Kuala Lumpur en route to Beijing.

"We are issuing this AD (Airworthiness Directive) to detect and correct cracking and corrosion in the fuselage skin, which could lead to rapid decompression and loss of structural integrity of the airplane," the Federal Aviation Administration said.

From here:http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/03/13/us-regulators-warn ed-pro blems-777s
 
2014-03-17 10:46:35 PM

Theaetetus: I was talking about the difficulty of following the other plane at less than 150m with your stick shaking all over the place because of jetwash.


RIP Goose.
 
2014-03-17 11:09:33 PM

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


You could avoid wake turbulence by flying slightly higher nose to vstab top or similar. The wake vortices tend to trail downward
 
2014-03-17 11:10:43 PM

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


So Mikael Baryshnikov can sneak in?
 
2014-03-17 11:11:14 PM
Is there a comprehensive list of the passenger/crew list bios all in one location? For whatever reason, I could find stuff on pretty much everyone but the Ukranians.
 
2014-03-17 11:16:51 PM
As I have very little knowledge of aviation, I am uniquely qualified to propose a possible explanation..

I'm not saying it was aliens... but...

cache.spreadshirt.com
 
2014-03-17 11:22:02 PM

clear_prop: Zazie_in_SFO: This would explain climbing above the service ceiling of the 777 to 45,000'   This extra altitude could be traded for speed to catch up with the SIA68 flight in just a few minutes as opposed to changing relative mach which would take some time to possible catch the SIA flight.

It doesn't work that way.  The speed lost in the climb would put it further behind.


Just to be argumentative, what if you knew that there would be  some plane on that flight path that you want to intercept, but you're not sure when? Then you might take the extra altitude and wait until you spot your target, then dive to catch up.
 
2014-03-17 11:27:30 PM

C18H27NO3: Your plane is over 700 feet long.


Actually, that scale is probably only good for sea level.  Since this is clearly submerged that would mean leon is even larger.
 
2014-03-17 11:40:20 PM

JPINFV: So it's like that one scene in Down Periscope?


galeri5.uludagsozluk.com

This one?
 
2014-03-17 11:47:14 PM

Theaetetus: Just to be argumentative, what if you knew that there would be  some plane on that flight path that you want to intercept, but you're not sure when? Then you might take the extra altitude and wait until you spot your target, then dive to catch up.


The problem is that you can't slow down much altitude to wait for a plane to come by because of the coffin corner.  Slow down and stall, or keep your speed and you are going about the same speed as the plane you are waiting for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_corner_(aviation)

You could do S-turns across the airway waiting for the other plane to catch up, but even then, if you are aiming the wrong way as the plane comes by, good luck catching them.  Fighter jets can intercept because they have thrust/speed to spare.  Commercial jets not so much.
 
2014-03-17 11:48:59 PM
The most interesting hypothesis yet, courtesy of the adroit Tyler Durden.
 
2014-03-18 12:10:15 AM

DarthBart: JPINFV: So it's like that one scene in Down Periscope?

[galeri5.uludagsozluk.com image 240x316]

This one?


More like Up Periscope amirite?
 
2014-03-18 12:21:07 AM

costermonger: All my experience in formation flying has been in the same type of aircraft as my lead or wing, but I think an airliner in cruise doing pretty much the worst thing (straight, level and fast) a lead could do for the wing to join up short of actually maneuvering to avoid him. Without a bunch of excess speed available, that's going to be a long, slow process.


www.mcchordairmuseum.org
 
2014-03-18 12:21:57 AM

C18H27NO3: DarthBart: JPINFV: So it's like that one scene in Down Periscope?

[galeri5.uludagsozluk.com image 240x316]

This one?

More like Up Periscope amirite?


So you're saying you wouldn't mind if she went down on your periscope?
 
2014-03-18 12:23:47 AM
Look, I know I'm not supposed to tell anyone this, but I know what really happened:

It was Superman.

He'd heard that they were showing Man of Steel as an in-flight movie and just couldn't take it any more. He fried their transponder with his eye beams, then flew the plane under the radar to his fortress of solitude where he could give each passenger of that flight an amnesia kiss. They'll be showing up any day now with only vague recollections of the time since the incident.
 
2014-03-18 12:24:04 AM

clear_prop: The problem is that you can't slow down much altitude to wait for a plane to come by because of the coffin corner. Slow down and stall, or keep your speed and you are going about the same speed as the plane you are waiting for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_corner_(aviation)

You could do S-turns across the airway waiting for the other plane to catch up, but even then, if you are aiming the wrong way as the plane comes by, good luck catching them. Fighter jets can intercept because they have thrust/speed to spare. Commercial jets not so much.


So, is this like balancing at MCA?  Skirting the Coffin Corner?
 
2014-03-18 12:24:10 AM
Helm match velocity, steady, 150m high and 150m directly behind, steady.
The SIA68/SQ68 cloak is engaged captain.
Helm, well done.
OPS, ETA to way point IGREX?


And now for something nearly different, the recent Airworthiness Directive (3/5/2014) didn't apply to FLT MH370.


 ...
 
2014-03-18 12:27:19 AM

AltheaToldMe: costermonger: All my experience in formation flying has been in the same type of aircraft as my lead or wing, but I think an airliner in cruise doing pretty much the worst thing (straight, level and fast) a lead could do for the wing to join up short of actually maneuvering to avoid him. Without a bunch of excess speed available, that's going to be a long, slow process.

[www.mcchordairmuseum.org image 550x358]


Heh. Yeah, I know ... "excess speed" yadda yadda

photorecon.net
thelexicans.files.wordpress.com
i164.photobucket.com
i164.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-18 12:28:20 AM
Oh, and this is nice

tomdemerly.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-18 12:28:58 AM

NkThrasher: And here I was hoping for a knight-rider-in-the-sky theory.


img.fark.net

Still not crazier than the "did flight 370 get hit by a meteor?" story I saw on CNN's page yesterday.
 
2014-03-18 12:31:11 AM

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


Pilots have a lot of control over the plane. You never know what could go wrong, and aviators are more of the "try all sorts of stuff and always have manual controls" type.
 
2014-03-18 12:36:18 AM

Rivetman1.0: big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?

Because that is how the system is designed.
You doexboyracer: Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Wow, don't have a clue how the system works eh Bucky?


Totally feasible.
/sarcasm

I think boyracer might not be playing with a full deck.
 
2014-03-18 12:37:21 AM

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


Cause pilots are the people what control the plane....

Seriously,  this comment has been floating around a few days now, and it's just born of shallow thought.  The pilots can turn off the nav lights, the air conditioning, and even the engines themselves, even though none of those would normally be advisable,  because  - they ARE OPERATINIG THE PLANE.  That includes all the systems.

The most practical real reason for control over the transponder is so it doesn't show up on radar while the plane is on the ground.  It normally only gets turned on just before takeoff.
 
2014-03-18 12:49:54 AM
 
2014-03-18 12:53:50 AM
In this day and age you would think there would be something mandatory in all planes that sent out a fairly regular beacon about its location that perhaps engages/disengages when you are above or below ~100' in altitude.

* Not engaged when you're on the ground so you're not adding noise; just starting at 100'.Disengages @ 100' on your way back down because you landed/crashed and ATC, FAA, or whoever knows where.
* Cannot be turned off by anyone except ground personnel in a special manner while the plane is grounded.
* Alerts ATC and pilots if the device does not go off as it should when climbing.

This way you know where the plane is when it went up and when it went down regardless if it landed as expected, crashed, or deviated.
Of course this probably has flaws and in no way helps the current situation.
 
2014-03-18 01:10:41 AM

C18H27NO3: In this day and age you would think there would be something mandatory in all planes that sent out a fairly regular beacon about its location that perhaps engages/disengages when you are above or below ~100' in altitude.


DEN is 5430' above sea level
ORD is 668'  ASL
MIA is 7' 10" ASL
 
2014-03-18 01:45:28 AM

AltheaToldMe: costermonger: All my experience in formation flying has been in the same type of aircraft as my lead or wing, but I think an airliner in cruise doing pretty much the worst thing (straight, level and fast) a lead could do for the wing to join up short of actually maneuvering to avoid him. Without a bunch of excess speed available, that's going to be a long, slow process.

[www.mcchordairmuseum.org image 550x358]


Once you're joined up, you can do whatever both aircraft are capable of. The KC-135 in that picture unquestionably did something to allow the C-17 to join up on it; probably a long turn (it's a lot easier to be precise that way, even if you have the speed to chase down the lead aircraft) and it *is* flying relatively slow compared to what it's capable of, as evidenced by the fact that a C-17 is keeping up.

A 777 is an efficient airplane to fly fast (as all long range heavies tend to be) and they don't exactly make many turns in cruise; if the guy in front is doing mach .84 and you're managing .86 or .87, it's going to take a long time to close any distance in a tail chase.
 
2014-03-18 01:45:38 AM

C18H27NO3: In this day and age you would think there would be something mandatory in all planes that sent out a fairly regular beacon about its location that perhaps engages/disengages when you are above or below ~100' in altitude.

* Not engaged when you're on the ground so you're not adding noise; just starting at 100'.Disengages @ 100' on your way back down because you landed/crashed and ATC, FAA, or whoever knows where.
* Cannot be turned off by anyone except ground personnel in a special manner while the plane is grounded.
* Alerts ATC and pilots if the device does not go off as it should when climbing.

This way you know where the plane is when it went up and when it went down regardless if it landed as expected, crashed, or deviated.
Of course this probably has flaws and in no way helps the current situation.


Airlines *hate* adding hardware that doesn't involve turning a profit.  Every pound of "1 in 100,000,000 odds avoidance" hardware is 1 pound of pax they can't carry or that much more fuel that needs to be burned to go X distance.

And the point about the crew not having access to it doesn't really work out.  The system has to have a circuit breaker for protection and the crew needs to be able to cycle that breaker in the event it trips or the system faults out and needs to be rebooted.

There's already a similar system in place called ADS-B, but not every aircraft is equipped with it and being able to receive the signal is a line-of-sight thing.
 
2014-03-18 01:51:54 AM

C18H27NO3: In this day and age you would think there would be something mandatory in all planes that sent out a fairly regular beacon about its location that perhaps engages/disengages when you are above or below ~100' in altitude.

* Not engaged when you're on the ground so you're not adding noise; just starting at 100'.Disengages @ 100' on your way back down because you landed/crashed and ATC, FAA, or whoever knows where.
* Cannot be turned off by anyone except ground personnel in a special manner while the plane is grounded.
* Alerts ATC and pilots if the device does not go off as it should when climbing.

This way you know where the plane is when it went up and when it went down regardless if it landed as expected, crashed, or deviated.
Of course this probably has flaws and in no way helps the current situation.


There are all kinds of satellite tracking devices you can get, but they're all going to have a circuit breaker. That's kind of a non-negotiable part of system architecture.
 
2014-03-18 02:37:17 AM

rbuzby: I think part if this story is the incompetence of the Malaysian government and it's institutions.  A country with it's shiat together would have probably found the plane by now.


Could this be the simple motive behind the whole thing?  Pilot, outraged because his political idol has been jailed, sets out to make Malaysian government look incompetent?
 
2014-03-18 03:12:26 AM

weemonkey: What? Nooooo, Courtney Love found the plane.

http://blog.sfgate.com/loaded/2014/03/17/courtney-love-claims-to-hav e- found-missing-plane/


Courtney Love didn't find that. Ironically enough she might be following the people that have the best chance of finding the plane if it went down over the water.

That imagery is from Tomnod, DigitalGlobe's crowdsource project. They've released a lot of recent imagery in from their satellites and set the Tomnod community to work on looking for wreckage.

If you like fooling around with GoogleEarth, Tomnod is an awesome way to put that interest to good use. DigitalGlobe releases imagery to the community on a project basis; volunteers have helped count Somali refugee camps and assess damage after natural disaster. It's been a really interesting attempt to solve a classic problem in remote sensing: putting enough analyst's eyes on the imagery that you don't miss anything.

Too much like work work for me to fool around with, but I do appreciate what DigitalGlobe is trying to do with it.
 
2014-03-18 03:22:30 AM
Maybe the plane disappeared from radar because it was surrounded by a swarm of stealth fighters who forced it to land somewhere and jammed the transponder signal
 
2014-03-18 06:51:39 AM

Ring of Fire: I'm thinking one of the pilots incapacitated the other one something in his drink maybe i don't know.  He then turned the plane flew across Malaysia avoiding radar turned north to avoid Indonesian radar.  he then turned it south flew out to the middle of the Indian Ocean and crashed the plane, pilot suicide.  He can explain the the changes of direction by saying we got turbulence up ahead have to make some flight plan adjustments or whatever, I mean is anyone really going to question the captain.  Also it was the middle of the night so not like people could see much outside the window if they were even awake.  By the time anyone noticed anything was up when the sun can up and they were in the middle of the ocean they cant call anyone because I doubt that there is much cell service in the middle of the Indian Ocean.  As for why he wouldn't just crash on the normal flight path, if they cant find the plane they can't prove that he crashed the thing.


Now this theory, I could actually buy.
 
2014-03-18 07:09:45 AM

mikemoto: Ring of Fire: I'm thinking one of the pilots incapacitated the other one something in his drink maybe i don't know.  He then turned the plane flew across Malaysia avoiding radar turned north to avoid Indonesian radar.  he then turned it south flew out to the middle of the Indian Ocean and crashed the plane, pilot suicide.  He can explain the the changes of direction by saying we got turbulence up ahead have to make some flight plan adjustments or whatever, I mean is anyone really going to question the captain.  Also it was the middle of the night so not like people could see much outside the window if they were even awake.  By the time anyone noticed anything was up when the sun can up and they were in the middle of the ocean they cant call anyone because I doubt that there is much cell service in the middle of the Indian Ocean.  As for why he wouldn't just crash on the normal flight path, if they cant find the plane they can't prove that he crashed the thing.

Now this theory, I could actually buy.



Jesus Christ, this is another horrible theory to buy into.  Why pull a bunch of maneuvers if you don't want to live anyway?  Pilots who suicide just do it, they point the nose at the ground.  They don't fly around all day first.
 
2014-03-18 07:47:05 AM

Daedalus27: Remember, it is a big ass sky out there and finding another jet to tail and getting close enough to mask radar signature isn't something anyone could count on.


clear_prop: The hardest part is finding the other plane and joining up.


It could be done.

If there was a confederate aboard the plane you wanted to track, he could have something as simple as a ham radio squawking out the planes position every so often. It could be on any frequency.

It's actually fairly easy technology to master, called APRS.

Alternatively, I presume normal commercial planes are squawking out their position anyway, you could have a passive system capturing that information (I don't know enough about that system to comment further).
 
2014-03-18 10:56:09 AM

stonelotus: [i1207.photobucket.com image 670x279]


Bane: They will see the wreckage and think everyone died in a plane crash
Other guy: And they will just assume the plane flew 10 miles without any wings?
 
2014-03-18 11:00:22 AM
media.desura.com
Om nom nom.

www.aviationspectator.com
We are one Supper Guppy away from avionic turducken.
 
2014-03-18 04:48:28 PM

jmayson: big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?

So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.


From what I've read, the transponder is used mainly over land or near airports. Found this earlier:

"When the Malaysia plane disappeared, it was over the ocean, so the transponder wasn't useful anyway - it was well out of range of the ground radar systems it uses to communicate. But if someone brought the plane back to land and wanted to keep it hidden, he would have to disable the transponder."
 
2014-03-18 05:47:51 PM

imtheonlylp: jmayson: big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?

So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.

From what I've read, the transponder is used mainly over land or near airports. Found this earlier:

"When the Malaysia plane disappeared, it was over the ocean, so the transponder wasn't useful anyway - it was well out of range of the ground radar systems it uses to communicate. But if someone brought the plane back to land and wanted to keep it hidden, he would have to disable the transponder."


This article suggests that an aircraft's TCAS system can be used over long ocean stretches and works by actively querying other transponders.

http://mh370shadow.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-d is appear-using-sia68-sq68

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_system

TCAS involves communication between all aircraft equipped with an appropriate transponder (provided the transponder is enabled and set up properly). Each TCAS-equipped aircraft interrogates all other aircraft in a determined range about their position (via the 1,030 MHz radio frequency), and all other aircraft reply to other interrogations (via 1,090 MHz). This interrogation-and-response cycle may occur several times per second.
 
2014-03-18 07:43:58 PM

Cerebral Ballsy: mikemoto: Ring of Fire: I'm thinking one of the pilots incapacitated the other one something in his drink maybe i don't know.  He then turned the plane flew across Malaysia avoiding radar turned north to avoid Indonesian radar.  he then turned it south flew out to the middle of the Indian Ocean and crashed the plane, pilot suicide.  He can explain the the changes of direction by saying we got turbulence up ahead have to make some flight plan adjustments or whatever, I mean is anyone really going to question the captain.  Also it was the middle of the night so not like people could see much outside the window if they were even awake.  By the time anyone noticed anything was up when the sun can up and they were in the middle of the ocean they cant call anyone because I doubt that there is much cell service in the middle of the Indian Ocean.  As for why he wouldn't just crash on the normal flight path, if they cant find the plane they can't prove that he crashed the thing.

Now this theory, I could actually buy.


Jesus Christ, this is another horrible theory to buy into.  Why pull a bunch of maneuvers if you don't want to live anyway?  Pilots who suicide just do it, they point the nose at the ground.  They don't fly around all day first.


Hmm, since you seem to know the psychology of suicidal pilots so well, remind not to fly with you.
 
2014-03-18 09:41:18 PM

MythDragon: [media.desura.com image 850x637]
Om nom nom.

[www.aviationspectator.com image 500x333]
We are one Supper Guppy away from avionic turducken.


I don't know why,
but I had to do this!

lh4.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-03-18 10:37:52 PM

ADHD Librarian: MythDragon: [media.desura.com image 850x637]
Om nom nom.

[www.aviationspectator.com image 500x333]
We are one Supper Guppy away from avionic turducken.

I don't know why,
but I had to do this!


Okay, that's worth the ticket to hell. Hopefully not on Malaysian Airlines.
 
2014-03-18 10:49:51 PM

ADHD Librarian: I don't know why,


Because you are a God among men.
 
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