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(Slate)   Yo, dawg, I heard you like jets, so I took your Malaysian jet and put it inside another jet   (slate.com) divider line 133
    More: Strange, Malaysia Flight, Malaysia, Singapore Airlines, flights, test pilots  
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18029 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 7:01 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



133 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-17 05:43:12 PM  
It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.
 
2014-03-17 06:07:36 PM  
Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?
 
2014-03-17 06:12:51 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?


My mind went to Bond, too. Different movie, though.

iansadler.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-17 06:36:57 PM  

nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.


For a short time, yeah... After all, if sandpeople can ride in single file to hide their numbers, surely planes can, too...

... until your flight path is no longer directly in line with the radar station, that is. Then, unless the following plane is right on the ass of the leading plane, there will be separation in the returns. And even if it is, you get a return that will be too long.

It depends on the resolution of the radar, of course, but this theory would also require that the radar over a major flight corridor, normally filled with planes following other planes, is low resolution enough that it can't detect separation between two planes of a few hundred meters? And this in a country that is constantly worried about attacks from its neighbor?
 
2014-03-17 06:40:34 PM  
that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.
 
2014-03-17 06:42:22 PM  
For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?
 
2014-03-17 07:04:26 PM  

calbert: that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.


Do you need a hug?
 
2014-03-17 07:07:23 PM  

calbert: story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"


1) it's a fark meme,
2) since the second plane would have been undetectable due to its proximity to the first, as far as the radar was concerned yeah that second plane was "inside" the other. "Inside" it radar footprint.
 
2014-03-17 07:10:59 PM  
Based on INMARSAT pings, at the last ping, the plane was somewhere along these two arcs:
theaviationist.com
Last night on the NBC evening news, someone apparently told the graphics guy to go make up a map showing a couple of arcs around Australia and Indonesia. And this was the result:
i60.tinypic.com
Which clearly means that Sir Mix-A-Lot is behind the whole thing.
i58.tinypic.com
/Heh, heh. "Behind."
 
2014-03-17 07:11:02 PM  
OK, Jack Bauer did it
 
2014-03-17 07:11:03 PM  
Their radar isn't 3D, is it? You don't need to be in trail at all if you're above or below it.
 
2014-03-17 07:11:31 PM  

nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.


That covers A LOT of ground.

Since it now appears that cockpit communication and ACARs were cut off simultaneously, I'm sticking with decompression or fire followed by hypoxia and disorientation.
 
2014-03-17 07:14:13 PM  
Ivan used to pull that shiat all the time.  At least in the movies.

"Goose, you see a trailer?"
"Negative Merlin... looks like he's a single."

/sneaky farking Russians
 
2014-03-17 07:16:15 PM  
Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?
 
2014-03-17 07:16:37 PM  
Holy shiat, there's two of them!
 
2014-03-17 07:16:51 PM  

Theaetetus: The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence.


Thanks for mining my mind.
 
2014-03-17 07:17:53 PM  
And here I was hoping for a knight-rider-in-the-sky theory.
 
2014-03-17 07:18:35 PM  
A lot of things are possible, but the likelihood of that happening is remote at best.  Remember, it is a big ass sky out there and finding another jet to tail and getting close enough to mask radar signature isn't something anyone could count on.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:16 PM  
It's jets. Jets all the way down.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:21 PM  
It's almost like nobody has any clue what happened.

I think part if this story is the incompetence of the Malaysian government and it's institutions.  A country with it's shiat together would have probably found the plane by now.
 
2014-03-17 07:19:36 PM  
I bet it was on a treadmill inside that other jet. But that raises another interesting question...
 
2014-03-17 07:20:56 PM  
What's an "aviation enthusiast"?

Someone who buys aviations?


citadellegin.com
lh4.googleusercontent.com
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2014-03-17 07:21:15 PM  

big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?


So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.
 
2014-03-17 07:21:50 PM  
 
2014-03-17 07:22:14 PM  

calbert: that's definitely the dumbest headline for the linked-to story.

story makes no such claims as to "putting a jet inside another jet"

I'm not even going to continue correcting subby... I guess I just expected more out of the admins to you know, maybe actually read and comprehend the submitted articles without just doling out charity greens because an unfunny and over-played headline meme was used.


Sounds like someone is 0 for 922 on links submitted.  No wonder you are bitter.  I had 5 links accepted, back in the day before sponsored content.  Back when it was safe to not lock your doors at night, and neighbors knew each others names.
 
2014-03-17 07:22:34 PM  
The jet is caught in a time warp. It took a jump to the left, then a step to the right.
 
2014-03-17 07:23:33 PM  
Slate headline: The Craziest Malaysia Flight 370 Theory Yet
Slate article: Keith Ledgerwood put forward the most elaborate and interesting suggestion we've heard yet.
 
2014-03-17 07:27:12 PM  
Everyone knows by now that all the crews and passengers were killed by snakes. Then the plane flew on til it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Snakes on a plane. Book it, done.
 
2014-03-17 07:27:56 PM  
i.imgur.com

Piece-a-cake
 
2014-03-17 07:29:43 PM  

MFAWG: nekom: It's not the dumbest theory I've heard.

That covers A LOT of ground.

Since it now appears that cockpit communication and ACARs were cut off simultaneously, I'm sticking with decompression or fire followed by hypoxia and disorientation.


I thought the current theory was the 2 transponders were turned off separately and through normal shutdown procedures, thus implying that they were taken off-line by humans rather than by a disaster?
 
2014-03-17 07:32:53 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Scooby Doo and The Spooky Case of the Grand Prix Race or Moonraker fan?


I thought of "You Only Live Twice"

www.bigflax.com
 
2014-03-17 07:33:26 PM  

jmayson: big pig peaches: Why are the pilots even able to turn off the transponders?

So they can fly undetected, duh!

Supposedly it's in case of fire or some other emergency they can shut down the electrical equipment.


i910.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-17 07:34:22 PM  

rbuzby: It's almost like nobody has any clue what happened.

I think part if this story is the incompetence of the Malaysian government and it's institutions.  A country with it's shiat together would have probably found the plane by now.


I'm really starting to think that the last military blip they claim was 370 wasn't it at all. I think it was another plane, there was a miscommunication or a mistake made identifying it with all of the commotion that was going on, and some official instead of double checking and verifying for sure what was going on, ran to the nearest camera and declared that they had a radar reading from a military radar there. And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.
 
2014-03-17 07:35:09 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net
 
2014-03-17 07:36:36 PM  
ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already
 
2014-03-17 07:37:04 PM  

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


Following another plane of the same type is relatively easy, since they have the same performance.  The hardest part is finding the other plane and joining up.  If they are just a bit ahead of you, catching up is hard since  you need a lot more speed to close the distance.  Getting the converging angles right on the first shot is unlikely since airliners in cruise don't have much extra speed to play with.

Most radar controllers filter out primary targets to reduce clutter, and even if they are looking at primary targets, a larger then normal target or two targets close together at altitude would not be noticed if there is a corresponding transponder target.

is it possible MH370 shadowed another plane?  Yes.  Probable?  Not really.
 
2014-03-17 07:38:51 PM  

Agatha Crispy: ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already


What the hell does that have to do with Benghazi?
 
2014-03-17 07:39:51 PM  
For the duration of the flight they were disassembling the plane piece by piece and dropping the parts to awaiting boats that transported them to be reassembled in an Iranian megafortress.
Got a little tricky there near the end but they managed somehow.
 
2014-03-17 07:40:55 PM  
What if the other plane was a bizjet flown by someone you knew - he flies a flight plan you go dark you join in formation over the ocean and fly across India to one of the 'stan countries.

Or hey I am betting you can reconfigure the transponder with a tail number say from a G5 in south america or one that is being painted or in for maint.  You file a flight plan inflight as BillyBob's G5 leaving the Andaman islands across India to one of the 'stans. If the tail number can't be changed from the transponder interface, you buy one like Boeing is using.  Config the transponder with the new tail number and swap the bogus transponder at the proper time.  I believe that most avionics are serviceable from the front side so a swap should not take long.  There you go now you are BillyBobs G5 - it is night - you are only a blip and a voice.  Certainly there is an abandoned strip - it would only have to be 5000' or so long. There are all kinds of sources for used avionics, Trade-A-Plan even Ebay and Amazon (free shippin)

Then it could be aliens.
 
2014-03-17 07:45:30 PM  

ongbok: Agatha Crispy: ongbok:  And before you say that is ridiculous, look at how incompetent this whole thing has been handled by the Malaysians so far. There have been a few times that some official has run to the cameras to declare some new development and it turned out to be completely wrong or some information that the investigators later deny. And if this happened with the radar blip, I think they are to embarrassed to admit it was a mistake.

Really wish you teabaggers would let Benghazi drop already

What the hell does that have to do with Benghazi?


That's the joke.jpg
 
2014-03-17 07:46:32 PM  
I'm still going with the theory that Langoliers are assholes

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-17 07:49:19 PM  

Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?


Let's pretend for a moment that MH370 was 500 feet below and 500 feet behind - a total of about 215 m away tail to nose. This should be far enough below to be out of wake turbulence at that range and far enough behind to maintain track visually through the cockpit windows (together with knowing the filed flight plan and listening to ATC conversation).

Let's then also pretend you're a bored radar operator in a third world country in the middle of the night. Do you think you'd really care (or even be able to notice, depending on age of the equipment) that the radar return from a flight that is *supposed* to be there is twice the size it should be - a return accompanied by a transponder response tied to a large aircraft to begin with?

The Malaysians apparently didn't care at the time that MH370 flew back across the country and it *wasn't* supposed to be there. If this is what happened I doubt anyone in the region could either detect the separate aircraft or care if they did at the time they did.

This theory is as good as any other at this point. The only theories I don't put much into are the ones where the plane just drops out of the sky - and that's probably my bias based on the 777's illustrious history.
 
2014-03-17 07:51:43 PM  
Has it been confirmed that the pilot's family "left" him the day before the flight?  That was reported somewhere.  If so, he probably crashed it into ocean (or sea) after turning off the transponder.  Suicide, with a twist of making it hard for people o figure out what happened.  To teach them a lesson or something.

Or, aliens.
 
2014-03-17 07:53:22 PM  

clear_prop: Theaetetus: For reference, with a pulse with of 1 microsecond, radar can't detect targets separated by less than 150m... The mandated separation for a heavy plane (777) following another heavy plane is 4 nautical miles due to wake turbulence. Now, you can get closer, but less than 150m? And stay there for an hour while you fly over India?

Following another plane of the same type is relatively easy, since they have the same performance.  The hardest part is finding the other plane and joining up.  If they are just a bit ahead of you, catching up is hard since  you need a lot more speed to close the distance.  Getting the converging angles right on the first shot is unlikely since airliners in cruise don't have much extra speed to play with.


I wasn't talking about difficulty of staying following the other plane because it might outrun you- I was talking about the difficulty of following the other plane  at less than 150m with your stick shaking all over the place because of jetwash.
You're a pilot... In your small plane, I'm sure you could happily follow a small plane of the same size one mile behind it for hours. But could you do it 10 feet behind it? For the same amount of time?

Most radar controllers filter out primary targets to reduce clutter, and even if they are looking at primary targets, a larger then normal target or two targets close together at altitude would not be noticed if there is a corresponding transponder target.

Sure, but they still have to stay within that tight separation, for the entire time they're in radar range.

is it possible MH370 shadowed another plane?  Yes.  Probable?  Not really.

As I said, it's theoretically possible for a few radar sweeps, from a single radar station. But for two hours while it flies over India towards Afghanistan or something, with lots of different radar stations at different angles to the flight path, including high resolution military radar as you get close to the Pakistani border? Not unless the planes were just about physically touching at that point.
 
2014-03-17 07:56:06 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-17 07:56:09 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Based on INMARSAT pings, at the last ping, the plane was somewhere along these two arcs:
[theaviationist.com image 685x550]
Last night on the NBC evening news, someone apparently told the graphics guy to go make up a map showing a couple of arcs around Australia and Indonesia. And this was the result:
[i60.tinypic.com image 850x423]
Which clearly means that Sir Mix-A-Lot is behind the whole thing.
[i58.tinypic.com image 850x423]
/Heh, heh. "Behind."


Thanks for Sir Mix-a-lot, but are you telling me that based on a satellite ping, the plane could have been anywhere along those arcs marked in red?  They're each about the size of China.
 
2014-03-17 08:03:00 PM  
www.theforce.net
 
2014-03-17 08:03:09 PM  
speaking as a former u.s. army air traffic controller. having spent time in Germany for three Reforger exercises. and time in little place called Granada.
I got nothin'.
however if you see me on a flight, you can "thank me for my service" by buying me drinks!
 
2014-03-17 08:03:15 PM  

RoyBatty: Holy shiat, there's two of them!


Ah-choo!

Oh my god, a dozen more of them... And a blip! A big shiny blip, and it's slowly moving south!
 
2014-03-17 08:06:36 PM  

bigbobowski: speaking as a former u.s. army air traffic controller. having spent time in Germany for three Reforger exercises. and time in little place called Granada.
I got nothin'.
however if you see me on a flight, you can "thank me for my service" by buying me drinks!


Thanks for your service - didn't know there was an Army base in Granada, Spain
 
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