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(Guardian)   We don't know who is getting sanctioned over Crimea or for how much, but we can all agree that it's Obama's fault, no matter what   (theguardian.com) divider line 236
    More: Obvious, Crimean, punishments, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Dmitry Rogozin, Russian oligarchs, unanimity, Russians, persona non grata  
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1056 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Mar 2014 at 6:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-17 08:55:09 PM  

Nabb1: Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.


Oh, I didn't know we had a Russian and Ukrainian scholar here! I bow to your evidently superior knowledge, as exhibited in your posts so far in this thread.. let me see, which ones were they?
 
2014-03-17 08:55:22 PM  
So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?
 
2014-03-17 08:55:36 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.
 
2014-03-17 08:55:44 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Ok, as long as you're fine with Russians benefiting from an ethnic cleansing of their own creation.
 
2014-03-17 08:57:12 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

Oh, I didn't know we had a Russian and Ukrainian scholar here! I bow to your evidently superior knowledge, as exhibited in your posts so far in this thread.. let me see, which ones were they?


Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.
 
2014-03-17 08:57:21 PM  

MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.


Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."
 
2014-03-17 08:57:56 PM  

Isitoveryet: Mentat: Isitoveryet: Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.

But Obama is evil and breaking rules is evil, so I could totally see him using his time machine for good.  Because he's evil.

good point.

I bet he didn't even bother to read the damn literature that came with the machine. There should be a certification course, at least.


Whar certification Whar?

\o/
I
/ \
 
2014-03-17 09:01:04 PM  

CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.


OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.
 
2014-03-17 09:02:34 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


"No, you!" Go read a book, kid.
 
2014-03-17 09:03:33 PM  

Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.


Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!
 
2014-03-17 09:04:26 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance. Very learned. Tell you what. Tell me what country you're family is from so we can talk about chopping it up and handing out the pieces to greedy world powers. I'll be sure to read a bunch of stuff about the place on Wikipedia first so I can feel a little more smug when I talk down to you as if I know something.

Ass.
 
2014-03-17 09:07:08 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.

Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!


Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
2014-03-17 09:10:01 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.

Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!


Lose? Lost what? Some pissing contest with some partisan shill who constantly carries water every day in the politics tab for his political masters? Because I don't feel like indulging your petulant demands to fill the enormous gaping void in your comprehension of the geopolitics of this whole affair? Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response? Yes, a winnar is you. You can have the FARK thread. Print it out and put it on the fridge.
 
2014-03-17 09:12:52 PM  

Dinki: Oh look... you lost.


This is exactly what someone who has "won" does not feel the need to say.
 
2014-03-17 09:13:16 PM  

CPennypacker: Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance.


Crimea has been part of Ukraine for all of 60 years. When it was given to Ukraine (by the Russians) none of the population was asked or polled as to whether they wanted to be part of Ukraine. You obviously seem to think it was ok for Russia to give Ukraine the Crimean peninsula without the populations permission, but not ok for Russia to take it back when a significant portion of the population expresses a desire to come back. Hmm.. what is that called? oh yeah, hypocrisy.
 
2014-03-17 09:15:27 PM  
You guys got him good, he's going to change his mind any minute now I can tell. Maybe a half dozen more "no u kno nothingz" posts and you'll have really taught him a lesson.
 
2014-03-17 09:16:02 PM  

Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?


Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?
 
2014-03-17 09:18:42 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


f.kulfoto.com
 
2014-03-17 09:19:20 PM  

Nabb1: Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response?


And what have you posted in contradiction- Please, show me anywhere in this thread where you have contributed any factual data, any actual argument, other than snide comments and attacks. Here, let me make it easy for you and copypasta your witty comments-

1. To him, how Obama his perceived is way more important than what actually happens.

2. Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.

3. Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

4. Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.


Your right, I stand corrected. You have displayed an understanding of the Crimean situation in those posts that put me to shame. I don't see how I missed it.
 
2014-03-17 09:23:28 PM  

grumpfuff: MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.

Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."


Surkov's very genuine response is disarming and deflates any momentum Obama might have had with this first round of sanctions. Associating Shakur and Ginsberg is flat out charmingly hilarious. I wonder what he thinks of the Techno Viking.

I will say this: Props to Obama for not racing us off into another war.
 
2014-03-17 09:24:53 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response?

And what have you posted in contradiction- Please, show me anywhere in this thread where you have contributed any factual data, any actual argument, other than snide comments and attacks. Here, let me make it easy for you and copypasta your witty comments-

1. To him, how Obama his perceived is way more important than what actually happens.

2. Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.

3. Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

4. Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Your right, I stand corrected. You have displayed an understanding of the Crimean situation in those posts that put me to shame. I don't see how I missed it.


Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.
 
2014-03-17 09:25:14 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?


Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?
 
2014-03-17 09:26:01 PM  

MJMaloney187: grumpfuff: MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.

Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."

Surkov's very genuine response is disarming and deflates any momentum Obama might have had with this first round of sanctions. Associating Shakur and Ginsberg is flat out charmingly hilarious. I wonder what he thinks of the Techno Viking.

I will say this: Props to Obama for not racing us off into another war.


What you said actually doesn't refute my point, just an fyi.
 
2014-03-17 09:29:16 PM  

Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


Obama could have used his time machine to go back and help Sweden take Moscow, or warn those heavily armored Germanic knights they were about to cross a frozen lake to try to take Pskov. Hell Obama had so many chances to knock Russia out of the game early. Thanks Obama.
 
2014-03-17 09:29:23 PM  

Nabb1: Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.


You're right, I'm completely oblivious about that. I never mentioned it once in this thread. oh wait, yes I did.

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

You don't even bother to read the thread you are participating in, and expect me to believe you are better read on the history of Crimea?
 
2014-03-17 09:31:07 PM  

Frank N Stein: CPennypacker: Dinki: CPennypacker: Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.

Actually, it pretty much appears that it isn't. You might want to get used to that.

Maybe we should give back all the land we got from Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? After all, it was theirs until 1848. That means they can claim it back whenever they want right? Or is it only if a bunch of Mexicans move there and then vote to give the land back?

[farm3.static.flickr.com image 500x429]


Heh, how quickly some people forget.
 
2014-03-17 09:32:56 PM  

MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.


Hah, so much fun : )
 
2014-03-17 09:34:36 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?


Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.
 
2014-03-17 09:36:41 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.


My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?
 
2014-03-17 09:37:59 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.

You're right, I'm completely oblivious about that. I never mentioned it once in this thread. oh wait, yes I did.

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

You don't even bother to read the thread you are participating in, and expect me to believe you are better read on the history of Crimea?


No, I saw that. Looks like you Googled something you hadn't seen before and quickly slapped a half ass response based on a Wikipedia entry. Yes, the region is now 60% Russian ethnically thanks to a rather insidious history.
 
2014-03-17 09:41:10 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance.

Crimea has been part of Ukraine for all of 60 years. When it was given to Ukraine (by the Russians) none of the population was asked or polled as to whether they wanted to be part of Ukraine. You obviously seem to think it was ok for Russia to give Ukraine the Crimean peninsula without the populations permission, but not ok for Russia to take it back when a significant portion of the population expresses a desire to come back. Hmm.. what is that called? oh yeah, hypocrisy.


You sound tired
 
2014-03-17 09:41:59 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Got a cite. Mostly just interested. I mean I knew about the Ukraine's resistance to Stalin's want's and it was really bad. Crimea at that time was part of Russia and stayed so until Khrushchev for like a 300 yr BFF anniversary with Ukraine gave them Crimea as a bound of friendship in the mid-50's.

/Russia just took their friendship ring back.
//And they have altered the deal, pray they do not alter it further : )
 
2014-03-17 09:44:33 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.

My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?


knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.
 
2014-03-17 09:44:38 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.

My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?


So, just to be clear, you wanted Obama to do absolutely nothing?

As for Putin, I don't know. Why is that important to someone who wanted Obama to do nothing in the first place? If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.

What, exactly, is your problem with what Obama has done? It's really not clear at all.
 
2014-03-17 09:45:37 PM  
theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you
 
2014-03-17 09:47:13 PM  

Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.


LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.
 
2014-03-17 09:47:21 PM  

Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.


Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.
 
2014-03-17 09:49:11 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you


For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?
 
2014-03-17 09:49:19 PM  
<b>Agatha Crispy</b>

we don't really know what the calculus is, if there is any, beyond the fact that heads of state broadly enjoy immunities
 
2014-03-17 09:52:23 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.


My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.
 
2014-03-17 09:53:30 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Note to tyrants everywhere: If you want to ensure the rest of the world (or at least Dinki) will see your territorial claims as legitimate, make sure you slaughter any hostile ethnic groups in contested territory.  That way, you can later point out that the territory should be yours, based on ethnic composition.

Yeah, that's really the message the world should be sending.
 
2014-03-17 09:54:12 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.

My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.


Well, that certainly is relevant to this situation.

/eyeroll
 
2014-03-17 09:54:32 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.

My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.


One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.
 
2014-03-17 09:55:07 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.


No, I'm not going to call you names. I'd post some links but I'm
FARKing on my phone. You can Google it and I'm sure the Economist or the BBC or someone has put together a nice crash course. The Crimea was majority Tatar for many years before being made part of Russia and then Soviet Union. It held great strategic importance to Russia. The Tatars pissed of Stalin, who made them a target of his infamous purges. Years later, Kruschev "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine (largely symbolic at the time) and now, apparently, Putin wants it back.
 
2014-03-17 09:55:37 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?


Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians
 
2014-03-17 09:58:51 PM  
qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?
 
2014-03-17 10:00:21 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians


cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com
 
2014-03-17 10:01:37 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?


And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?
 
2014-03-17 10:01:56 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]


Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.
 
2014-03-17 10:04:02 PM  

qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?

And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?


By keeping out of it. Why do Americans feel they are the policeman of the world and that they must somehow make sure everything turns out the way they want?
 
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