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(Guardian)   We don't know who is getting sanctioned over Crimea or for how much, but we can all agree that it's Obama's fault, no matter what   (theguardian.com) divider line 236
    More: Obvious, Crimean, punishments, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Dmitry Rogozin, Russian oligarchs, unanimity, Russians, persona non grata  
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1056 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Mar 2014 at 6:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



236 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-17 04:42:56 PM  
Wealthy corrupt Russian oligarchs own property all over Europe and New York and stash their money there and travel there.

Take away their dirty money and their ability to travel.
 
2014-03-17 04:55:00 PM  
This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.
 
2014-03-17 05:45:49 PM  
We don't know who is getting sanctioned over Crimea

Subby should read his own article.

The seven Russians targeted by US sanctions

Vladislav Surkov, a Putin aide

Sergey Glazyev, a Putin adviser

Leonid Slutsky, a state Duma deputy

Andrei Klishas, member of the Federation Council (the upper house of the Federal Assembly of Russia)

Valentina Matviyenko, head of the Federation Council

Dmitry Rogozin, deputy prime minister

Yelena Mizulina, a state Duma deputy
 
2014-03-17 06:07:21 PM  
Well of course, everything is Obama's fault.  He's MAKING Putin invade Crimea.  Putin didn't want to, Obama forced him to do it.  It is ALL Obama's fault.
 
2014-03-17 06:14:05 PM  

fusillade762: Leonid Slutsky, a state Duma deputy


Please tell me I'm not the only one who chuckled at that.
 
2014-03-17 06:14:47 PM  
I'm sure the NCAA will find a way to punish the Pac-12 for this somehow.
 
2014-03-17 06:16:13 PM  
I'm sure if Obama hadn't let those Americans die in Benghazi they would have been able to talk Putin out of invading Crimea.

/Wondering if this will become or has already become a talking point.
 
2014-03-17 06:21:46 PM  
It's Putin who will be getting the butt plug for this nonsense.
He was the dog who had too much rope, ultimately.

/He's going down like Saddam Hussein.
 
2014-03-17 06:25:43 PM  
Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?
 
2014-03-17 06:26:03 PM  

PowerSlacker: I'm sure the NCAA will find a way to punish the Pac-12 for this somehow.


Clearly what needs to happen is that assets of the PAC-12 need to be seized and used to double the number of hooker and cocaine yacht parties being thrown for athletes at Miami, FSU, Alabama, etc
 
2014-03-17 06:26:54 PM  

Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.


Why yes, it makes perfect sense to endorse Stalin's ethnic cleansing of Crimea by saying "well now most of them are Russian so Russia should get it", good thinking there!
 
2014-03-17 06:36:30 PM  

Wooly Bully: Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.

Why yes, it makes perfect sense to endorse Stalin's ethnic cleansing of Crimea by saying "well now most of them are Russian so Russia should get it", good thinking there!


Annexing a place and ethnically cleansing it is kinda their thing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast

They pretty much killed and replaced 90% of the population of former Prussia.
 
2014-03-17 06:42:08 PM  

Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.


How about no?
 
2014-03-17 06:44:18 PM  

Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.


But I was told that referendum was a sham. A mockery. A travesty of democracy.

A shamevstockery!!!
 
2014-03-17 06:45:08 PM  
Traveshamockery?

Mockashamesty?
 
2014-03-17 07:00:10 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: I'm sure if Obama hadn't let those Americans die in Benghazi they would have been able to talk Putin out of invading Crimea.

/Wondering if this will become or has already become a talking point.


What is Putin doing with that Malaysian plane that he parked in Ben Gazzardy?
 
2014-03-17 07:07:22 PM  
Putin doesn't care about sanctions.  He probably welcomes them, because each step we take toward a new cold war helps solidify his power and gives him a new excuse to crack down on political opposition.  He lives and breathes for this stuff.  He's going to take Crimea, there's nothing anybody will do to stop him, and everyone on every side knows it.  All this sanctions stuff is for hometown consumption.
 
2014-03-17 07:17:32 PM  

AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?


Clearly, you have the properly weighted response already thought up. Please, enlighten us, theoretical President AngryDragon...
 
2014-03-17 07:19:28 PM  

CPennypacker: How about no?


You're right- let's go to war over a superpower flexing its muscle in its back yard. That will work out just fine.
 
2014-03-17 07:20:50 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: I'm sure if Obama hadn't let those Americans die in Benghazi they would have been able to talk Putin out of invading Crimea.

/Wondering if this will become or has already become a talking point.


Too late.

I saw variations of this talking point when the crisis first started.
 
2014-03-17 07:33:45 PM  

Mrtraveler01: UncomfortableSilence: I'm sure if Obama hadn't let those Americans die in Benghazi they would have been able to talk Putin out of invading Crimea.

/Wondering if this will become or has already become a talking point.

Too late.

I saw variations of this talking point when the crisis first started.


I had hopes that this wasn't the case.  Ah, who am I kidding?
 
2014-03-17 07:42:36 PM  
I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?
 
2014-03-17 07:46:42 PM  

Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?



oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.
 
2014-03-17 07:51:49 PM  
Guy walks in and asks the bartender
"Isn't that Obama and Biden sitting over there?" The bartender says, "Yep, that's them." So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honor. What are you guys doing in here?"
Obama says, "We're trying to prevent WWIII. And the guy says, "Really? How are you going to do that."
Obama says, "Well, we're going to impose sanctions on six of Putin's policy advisors and one bicycle repairman."
The guy exclaimed, "A bicycle repairman!!! Why impose sanctions on a bicycle repairman?"
Obama turns to Biden , punches him on the shoulder and says, "See, dummy! I told you no one would worry about the six policy advisors!"
 
2014-03-17 08:01:36 PM  

vernonFL: Wealthy corrupt Russian oligarchs own property all over Europe and New York and stash their money there and travel there.

Take away their dirty money and their ability to travel.


Isn't that what happened last year during the Cyprus Financial Crisis when the government seized all bank account?
 
2014-03-17 08:04:04 PM  

Isitoveryet: Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.


But Obama is evil and breaking rules is evil, so I could totally see him using his time machine for good.  Because he's evil.
 
2014-03-17 08:05:44 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: How about no?

You're right- let's go to war over a superpower flexing its muscle in its back yard. That will work out just fine.


You: It makes sense for Russia to absorb Crimea
Someone else: No it doesn't
You: You're a warmonger

You should look up the term "false dichotomy" some time.
 
2014-03-17 08:08:46 PM  

Mentat: Isitoveryet: Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.

But Obama is evil and breaking rules is evil, so I could totally see him using his time machine for good.  Because he's evil.


good point.

I bet he didn't even bother to read the damn literature that came with the machine. There should be a certification course, at least.
 
2014-03-17 08:18:19 PM  

Wooly Bully: ou: It makes sense for Russia to absorb Crimea
Someone else: No it doesn't
You: You're a warmonger

You should look up the term "false dichotomy" some time.


Ok, so what do all you people that are saying Obama isn't doing enough propose? Difficulty- your proposal can't be something that will lead to a new hot or cold war.
 
2014-03-17 08:21:31 PM  

AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?


Seems like it ought to be. Whenever something like a less-terrible-than-before jobs report comes along, he certainly gives himself the credit. You fought for this job, so for good or ill when something happens on your watch, it's yours, Mr. President.
 
2014-03-17 08:21:39 PM  

Dinki: Wooly Bully: ou: It makes sense for Russia to absorb Crimea
Someone else: No it doesn't
You: You're a warmonger

You should look up the term "false dichotomy" some time.

Ok, so what do all you people that are saying Obama isn't doing enough propose? Difficulty- your proposal can't be something that will lead to a new hot or cold war.


How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.
 
2014-03-17 08:23:59 PM  

Dinki: Wooly Bully: ou: It makes sense for Russia to absorb Crimea
Someone else: No it doesn't
You: You're a warmonger

You should look up the term "false dichotomy" some time.

Ok, so what do all you people that are saying Obama isn't doing enough propose? Difficulty- your proposal can't be something that will lead to a new hot or cold war.


Too late. We've just been handed the former, so it's only the latter that's up for discussion.
 
2014-03-17 08:25:33 PM  
HOW CAN the USA or anybody accept the overthrowing of the Ukraine government as "OK", but have a big problem with the Crimean nonsense?

Even better, how can the USA biatch about illegally occupying a foreign country?
Bush took care of America's reputation long ago.
 
2014-03-17 08:36:40 PM  

davynelson: HOW CAN the USA or anybody accept the overthrowing of the Ukraine government as "OK", but have a big problem with the Crimean nonsense?

Even better, how can the USA biatch about illegally occupying a foreign country?
Bush took care of America's reputation long ago.


Do you even know what happened in Ukraine?
 
2014-03-17 08:36:51 PM  

CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.


So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.
 
2014-03-17 08:38:34 PM  

jjorsett: Too late. We've just been handed the former, so it's only the latter that's up for discussion.


We haven't been handed anything. This has always been a relatively minor regional issue, which unless the warmongers get their way, will be resolved in a couple of months.
 
2014-03-17 08:38:44 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.


Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.
 
2014-03-17 08:38:45 PM  

CPennypacker: Dinki: Wooly Bully: ou: It makes sense for Russia to absorb Crimea
Someone else: No it doesn't
You: You're a warmonger

You should look up the term "false dichotomy" some time.

Ok, so what do all you people that are saying Obama isn't doing enough propose? Difficulty- your proposal can't be something that will lead to a new hot or cold war.

How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.


To him, how Obama his perceived is way more important than what actually happens.
 
2014-03-17 08:40:24 PM  

davynelson: HOW CAN the USA or anybody accept the overthrowing of the Ukraine government as "OK", but have a big problem with the Crimean nonsense?

Even better, how can the USA biatch about illegally occupying a foreign country?
Bush took care of America's reputation long ago.


So clearly, Putin gets a free war. You know, to make up for missing out earlier.

We can never, ever, say anything about another war, ever. Everybody gets freebies until we're even stevens.
 
2014-03-17 08:40:47 PM  

CPennypacker: Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.


Actually, it pretty much appears that it isn't. You might want to get used to that.
 
2014-03-17 08:40:51 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.


Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.
 
2014-03-17 08:42:05 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.


Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?
 
2014-03-17 08:42:49 PM  

Nabb1: Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.


Um, no, I'm simply looking at the history of the region. Unless you have some other data showing that the majority of Crimeans  want to stay in the Ukraine. Do you?
 
2014-03-17 08:42:53 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.

Actually, it pretty much appears that it isn't. You might want to get used to that.


Maybe we should give back all the land we got from Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? After all, it was theirs until 1848. That means they can claim it back whenever they want right? Or is it only if a bunch of Mexicans move there and then vote to give the land back?
 
2014-03-17 08:45:48 PM  

CPennypacker: Dinki: CPennypacker: Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.

Actually, it pretty much appears that it isn't. You might want to get used to that.

Maybe we should give back all the land we got from Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? After all, it was theirs until 1848. That means they can claim it back whenever they want right? Or is it only if a bunch of Mexicans move there and then vote to give the land back?


farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2014-03-17 08:47:56 PM  
The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.
 
2014-03-17 08:48:54 PM  

Dinki: Ok, so what do all you people that are saying Obama isn't doing enough propose? Difficulty- your proposal can't be something that will lead to a new hot or cold war.


I'm not one of those people so I wouldn't presume to speak for them. I don't have any reason to blame Obama for not doing enough.

davynelson: HOW CAN the USA or anybody accept the overthrowing of the Ukraine government as "OK", but have a big problem with the Crimean nonsense?

Even better, how can the USA biatch about illegally occupying a foreign country?
Bush took care of America's reputation long ago.


There's a big difference between a revolution, which is what happened in Ukraine, and a foreign invasion and seizure of another country's territory. If you don't get that, look into what a revolution is.

I f*ckin' hated Bush and I'll be damned if someone tells me I can't condemn Putin because of him. Anyway, we finally got rid of him, but there's no indication the Russians can get rid of Putin. And as incredibly wrong as Iraq was, it wasn't the same as annexing a foreign country's territory.
 
2014-03-17 08:49:11 PM  

MJMaloney187: The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock.


nttatwwt
 
2014-03-17 08:50:14 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.

Um, no, I'm simply looking at the history of the region. Unless you have some other data showing that the majority of Crimeans  want to stay in the Ukraine. Do you?


Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.
 
2014-03-17 08:50:45 PM  

dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?


And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.
 
2014-03-17 08:55:09 PM  

Nabb1: Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.


Oh, I didn't know we had a Russian and Ukrainian scholar here! I bow to your evidently superior knowledge, as exhibited in your posts so far in this thread.. let me see, which ones were they?
 
2014-03-17 08:55:22 PM  
So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?
 
2014-03-17 08:55:36 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.
 
2014-03-17 08:55:44 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Ok, as long as you're fine with Russians benefiting from an ethnic cleansing of their own creation.
 
2014-03-17 08:57:12 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

Oh, I didn't know we had a Russian and Ukrainian scholar here! I bow to your evidently superior knowledge, as exhibited in your posts so far in this thread.. let me see, which ones were they?


Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.
 
2014-03-17 08:57:21 PM  

MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.


Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."
 
2014-03-17 08:57:56 PM  

Isitoveryet: Mentat: Isitoveryet: Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.

But Obama is evil and breaking rules is evil, so I could totally see him using his time machine for good.  Because he's evil.

good point.

I bet he didn't even bother to read the damn literature that came with the machine. There should be a certification course, at least.


Whar certification Whar?

\o/
I
/ \
 
2014-03-17 09:01:04 PM  

CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.


OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.
 
2014-03-17 09:02:34 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


"No, you!" Go read a book, kid.
 
2014-03-17 09:03:33 PM  

Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.


Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!
 
2014-03-17 09:04:26 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance. Very learned. Tell you what. Tell me what country you're family is from so we can talk about chopping it up and handing out the pieces to greedy world powers. I'll be sure to read a bunch of stuff about the place on Wikipedia first so I can feel a little more smug when I talk down to you as if I know something.

Ass.
 
2014-03-17 09:07:08 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.

Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!


Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
2014-03-17 09:10:01 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: "No, you!" Go read a book, kid.

Oh look... you lost. Thanks for playing!


Lose? Lost what? Some pissing contest with some partisan shill who constantly carries water every day in the politics tab for his political masters? Because I don't feel like indulging your petulant demands to fill the enormous gaping void in your comprehension of the geopolitics of this whole affair? Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response? Yes, a winnar is you. You can have the FARK thread. Print it out and put it on the fridge.
 
2014-03-17 09:12:52 PM  

Dinki: Oh look... you lost.


This is exactly what someone who has "won" does not feel the need to say.
 
2014-03-17 09:13:16 PM  

CPennypacker: Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance.


Crimea has been part of Ukraine for all of 60 years. When it was given to Ukraine (by the Russians) none of the population was asked or polled as to whether they wanted to be part of Ukraine. You obviously seem to think it was ok for Russia to give Ukraine the Crimean peninsula without the populations permission, but not ok for Russia to take it back when a significant portion of the population expresses a desire to come back. Hmm.. what is that called? oh yeah, hypocrisy.
 
2014-03-17 09:15:27 PM  
You guys got him good, he's going to change his mind any minute now I can tell. Maybe a half dozen more "no u kno nothingz" posts and you'll have really taught him a lesson.
 
2014-03-17 09:16:02 PM  

Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?


Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?
 
2014-03-17 09:18:42 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Please point to a post you have made that shows any knowledge not gained from a half read Wikipedia entry? You're full of shiat.

OH look another Rhodes scholar, showing us through their brilliant ripostes how much more they know about Crimea than all us unwashed rubes. Here's a hint, Ukrainian boy- I'm betting I'm as informed about the history of the region as you or your buddy Nabb1 there.


f.kulfoto.com
 
2014-03-17 09:19:20 PM  

Nabb1: Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response?


And what have you posted in contradiction- Please, show me anywhere in this thread where you have contributed any factual data, any actual argument, other than snide comments and attacks. Here, let me make it easy for you and copypasta your witty comments-

1. To him, how Obama his perceived is way more important than what actually happens.

2. Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.

3. Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

4. Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.


Your right, I stand corrected. You have displayed an understanding of the Crimean situation in those posts that put me to shame. I don't see how I missed it.
 
2014-03-17 09:23:28 PM  

grumpfuff: MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.

Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."


Surkov's very genuine response is disarming and deflates any momentum Obama might have had with this first round of sanctions. Associating Shakur and Ginsberg is flat out charmingly hilarious. I wonder what he thinks of the Techno Viking.

I will say this: Props to Obama for not racing us off into another war.
 
2014-03-17 09:24:53 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Because no matter what anyone posts in contradiction to your assertion you will reply with some snide response?

And what have you posted in contradiction- Please, show me anywhere in this thread where you have contributed any factual data, any actual argument, other than snide comments and attacks. Here, let me make it easy for you and copypasta your witty comments-

1. To him, how Obama his perceived is way more important than what actually happens.

2. Someone's gone all-in on Putin's version of things, I see.

3. Your understanding of the history of that region is appallingly thin and judging by your responses so far, I am not inclined to educate you since you seem to have picked up bits and pieces of information from political blogs over the past two weeks.

4. Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Your right, I stand corrected. You have displayed an understanding of the Crimean situation in those posts that put me to shame. I don't see how I missed it.


Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.
 
2014-03-17 09:25:14 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?


Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?
 
2014-03-17 09:26:01 PM  

MJMaloney187: grumpfuff: MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.

Yes, because a guy getting hurt by the sanctions is totally going to say "Oh shiat guys, this really sucks. fark Putin for getting us into this shiat."

Surkov's very genuine response is disarming and deflates any momentum Obama might have had with this first round of sanctions. Associating Shakur and Ginsberg is flat out charmingly hilarious. I wonder what he thinks of the Techno Viking.

I will say this: Props to Obama for not racing us off into another war.


What you said actually doesn't refute my point, just an fyi.
 
2014-03-17 09:29:16 PM  

Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


Obama could have used his time machine to go back and help Sweden take Moscow, or warn those heavily armored Germanic knights they were about to cross a frozen lake to try to take Pskov. Hell Obama had so many chances to knock Russia out of the game early. Thanks Obama.
 
2014-03-17 09:29:23 PM  

Nabb1: Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.


You're right, I'm completely oblivious about that. I never mentioned it once in this thread. oh wait, yes I did.

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

You don't even bother to read the thread you are participating in, and expect me to believe you are better read on the history of Crimea?
 
2014-03-17 09:31:07 PM  

Frank N Stein: CPennypacker: Dinki: CPennypacker: Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.

Actually, it pretty much appears that it isn't. You might want to get used to that.

Maybe we should give back all the land we got from Mexico in the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? After all, it was theirs until 1848. That means they can claim it back whenever they want right? Or is it only if a bunch of Mexicans move there and then vote to give the land back?

[farm3.static.flickr.com image 500x429]


Heh, how quickly some people forget.
 
2014-03-17 09:32:56 PM  

MJMaloney187: The Grey Cardinal was on President Obama's sanction list. This is what he had to say:

"Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov,  a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin's grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, "It's a big honor for me. I don't have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don't need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing."

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA ... I guess Obama's community outreach efforts never extended into any Russian or Polish neighborhoods in Chicago. What a stony looking rube.


Hah, so much fun : )
 
2014-03-17 09:34:36 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?


Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.
 
2014-03-17 09:36:41 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.


My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?
 
2014-03-17 09:37:59 PM  

Dinki: Nabb1: Go read up on the Tatars, the purges under Stalina and the other volumes of history you seemed oblivious to in your earlier posts.

You're right, I'm completely oblivious about that. I never mentioned it once in this thread. oh wait, yes I did.

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

You don't even bother to read the thread you are participating in, and expect me to believe you are better read on the history of Crimea?


No, I saw that. Looks like you Googled something you hadn't seen before and quickly slapped a half ass response based on a Wikipedia entry. Yes, the region is now 60% Russian ethnically thanks to a rather insidious history.
 
2014-03-17 09:41:10 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: Yes you've made that quite evident by your "give it to Russia cuz a bunch of Russians live there" stance.

Crimea has been part of Ukraine for all of 60 years. When it was given to Ukraine (by the Russians) none of the population was asked or polled as to whether they wanted to be part of Ukraine. You obviously seem to think it was ok for Russia to give Ukraine the Crimean peninsula without the populations permission, but not ok for Russia to take it back when a significant portion of the population expresses a desire to come back. Hmm.. what is that called? oh yeah, hypocrisy.


You sound tired
 
2014-03-17 09:41:59 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Got a cite. Mostly just interested. I mean I knew about the Ukraine's resistance to Stalin's want's and it was really bad. Crimea at that time was part of Russia and stayed so until Khrushchev for like a 300 yr BFF anniversary with Ukraine gave them Crimea as a bound of friendship in the mid-50's.

/Russia just took their friendship ring back.
//And they have altered the deal, pray they do not alter it further : )
 
2014-03-17 09:44:33 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.

My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?


knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.
 
2014-03-17 09:44:38 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?

Oh, so your backing away from the snarky 'obama called putin and asked...' nonsense... good. Also, I must have missed your suggested course of action. Please elaborate.

My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?


So, just to be clear, you wanted Obama to do absolutely nothing?

As for Putin, I don't know. Why is that important to someone who wanted Obama to do nothing in the first place? If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.

What, exactly, is your problem with what Obama has done? It's really not clear at all.
 
2014-03-17 09:45:37 PM  
theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you
 
2014-03-17 09:47:13 PM  

Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.


LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.
 
2014-03-17 09:47:21 PM  

Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.


Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.
 
2014-03-17 09:49:11 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you


For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?
 
2014-03-17 09:49:19 PM  
<b>Agatha Crispy</b>

we don't really know what the calculus is, if there is any, beyond the fact that heads of state broadly enjoy immunities
 
2014-03-17 09:52:23 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.


My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.
 
2014-03-17 09:53:30 PM  

Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.


Note to tyrants everywhere: If you want to ensure the rest of the world (or at least Dinki) will see your territorial claims as legitimate, make sure you slaughter any hostile ethnic groups in contested territory.  That way, you can later point out that the territory should be yours, based on ethnic composition.

Yeah, that's really the message the world should be sending.
 
2014-03-17 09:54:12 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.

My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.


Well, that certainly is relevant to this situation.

/eyeroll
 
2014-03-17 09:54:32 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.

My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.


One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.
 
2014-03-17 09:55:07 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.


No, I'm not going to call you names. I'd post some links but I'm
FARKing on my phone. You can Google it and I'm sure the Economist or the BBC or someone has put together a nice crash course. The Crimea was majority Tatar for many years before being made part of Russia and then Soviet Union. It held great strategic importance to Russia. The Tatars pissed of Stalin, who made them a target of his infamous purges. Years later, Kruschev "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine (largely symbolic at the time) and now, apparently, Putin wants it back.
 
2014-03-17 09:55:37 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?


Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians
 
2014-03-17 09:58:51 PM  
qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?
 
2014-03-17 10:00:21 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians


cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com
 
2014-03-17 10:01:37 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?


And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?
 
2014-03-17 10:01:56 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]


Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.
 
2014-03-17 10:04:02 PM  

qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?

And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?


By keeping out of it. Why do Americans feel they are the policeman of the world and that they must somehow make sure everything turns out the way they want?
 
2014-03-17 10:04:23 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]

Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.


Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?
 
2014-03-17 10:04:54 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]

Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.


It's the reaction to someone who thinks that what Obama did results in the world laughing but somehow doing nothing (your suggested course of action) would not. You make no sense. Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.
 
2014-03-17 10:05:51 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

knuckler? If you're waiting for another apologist to white knight you I don't think they can.

LOL. You're impatient.

/and needy, apparently.

My problem with Obama, as a non-American, is that I really thought he was different. No more wars, no more torture. Instead, we have drones killing innocent families and the New York Times shows a picture of him going over the daily "drone kill" list, we have him supporting the overthrow of Mubarak only to see that blow up in his face, he draws a red line in Syria and then he's considered a hero for not going through with his threat. I hate what Bush and the Republicans did but as an outsider, when they say he's an empty suit, it's starting to resonate.


Wow, Brazil, cool. I for one would like to say I neither seek to condone or support Russian actions in Crimea and Ukraine. I do understand the Muscovite mindset on this.Their history basically is the Muscovite Tzar finally winning against the Mongol Khans
( side note: in 2013 Russia/Gazprom released a movie about an Orthodox Saint from those days)

The rest of their history is filled with invasions in from the northwest, west and south/southwest.

Pussia is a paranoid abused child with a huge inferiority complex and sanctions are just gonna get us back to the cold war or worse.
 
2014-03-17 10:05:56 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?

And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?

By keeping out of it. Why do Americans feel they are the policeman of the world and that they must somehow make sure everything turns out the way they want?


Um...we did keep out of it. You may be thinking of Libya.
 
2014-03-17 10:06:35 PM  
theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?
 
2014-03-17 10:07:12 PM  
 
2014-03-17 10:07:55 PM  

qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]

Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.

Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?


So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?
 
2014-03-17 10:08:22 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?

And this would constitute what? You said Egypt "blew up in [Obama's] face"; how was that to be prevented, other than preventing the ouster of Mubarak in the first place, or interfering with the subsequent elections and governments?

By keeping out of it. Why do Americans feel they are the policeman of the world and that they must somehow make sure everything turns out the way they want?


You do realize that, other than making some comments, we pretty much DID keep out of it, right?
 
2014-03-17 10:09:03 PM  
 
2014-03-17 10:09:42 PM  

Nabb1: tinfoil-hat maggie: Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.

No, I'm not going to call you names. I'd post some links but I'm
FARKing on my phone. You can Google it and I'm sure the Economist or the BBC or someone has put together a nice crash course. The Crimea was majority Tatar for many years before being made part of Russia and then Soviet Union. It held great strategic importance to Russia. The Tatars pissed of Stalin, who made them a target of his infamous purges. Years later, Kruschev "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine (largely symbolic at the time) and now, apparently, Putin wants it back.


Okay quick question and using wiki is no fare, when did Russia conquer, then annex Crimea?
 
2014-03-17 10:10:35 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?


Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?
 
2014-03-17 10:11:44 PM  
i would have preferred these sanctions to have come much sooner, but there are reasons they may have been delayed which may actually make them more effective - for example if they are designed to begin to establish some momentum, or for many other reasons
 
2014-03-17 10:12:27 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?


Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.
 
2014-03-17 10:13:06 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]

Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.

Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?


Sure, but it's still less significant than adding Putin to the list.
 
2014-03-17 10:13:28 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend:

One might conclude from this that you would prefer a return to Cold War-era international relations, where the US propped up dictators like Mubarak or Assad instead of interfering in other nations' internal affairs.

So the choice is propping up dictators or interfering in other nation's internal affairs? How about neither?


The US is happy to prop up dictators as long as their on our side. We are also happy to over through a democratically elected government if it ticks us off or doesn't support us.
 
2014-03-17 10:13:39 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?


Not to speak for qorkfiend, but here's what I said earlier:  If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.
 
2014-03-17 10:14:06 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Nabb1: tinfoil-hat maggie: Nabb1: Dinki: dave2198: Do you know why the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians?

And? The Tartar purge was reprehensible, but Stalin did lots of reprehensible acts. The simple fact is that now the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian.

Good thing they ethnically cleansed the place, then.

Citations please?

/ I admit I have a lack of information about the Tarters since Russia took Crimea (circa late 1700's) and just that the Tarters wear a warlike tribal people that loved to ride fast horses and raid Russia.
//Oh sure call me ill infromed and "retadr" please.

No, I'm not going to call you names. I'd post some links but I'm
FARKing on my phone. You can Google it and I'm sure the Economist or the BBC or someone has put together a nice crash course. The Crimea was majority Tatar for many years before being made part of Russia and then Soviet Union. It held great strategic importance to Russia. The Tatars pissed of Stalin, who made them a target of his infamous purges. Years later, Kruschev "gave" Crimea to the Ukraine (largely symbolic at the time) and now, apparently, Putin wants it back.

Okay quick question and using wiki is no fare, when did Russia conquer, then annex Crimea?


Crimea was made a part of Russia in the late eighteenth century.
 
2014-03-17 10:14:42 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.


No, you were complaining about what Obama did.
 
2014-03-17 10:16:15 PM  
ukraine is an incredibly corrupt country,<b>Agatha</b>. it's been extremely poorly served by the soviet union and russia. russian aggression is a genuine concern for nato and hence the us. what is your point? do you have one?
 
2014-03-17 10:17:49 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.


Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.
 
2014-03-17 10:18:59 PM  
you've got no idea what you are talking about, agatha. you don't seem to want to understand
 
2014-03-17 10:19:50 PM  
Everyone saw the sanctions coming; there were news stories of Russians pulling their money out of the US in anticipation.
Nobody's going to be seriously hurt by this. Barring stronger leadership by the EU I don't see much else Obama can do.
 
2014-03-17 10:19:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?

Not to speak for qorkfiend, but here's what I said earlier:  If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.


Basically. The names weren't pulled out of a hat; this list was carefully considered to be the optimal mix of somewhat annoying and not particularly serious.
 
2014-03-17 10:20:44 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.


And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?
 
2014-03-17 10:24:41 PM  

qorkfiend: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?

Not to speak for qorkfiend, but here's what I said earlier:  If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.

Basically. The names weren't pulled out of a hat; this list was carefully considered to be the optimal mix of somewhat annoying and not particularly serious.


Nuance? That's lib talk!

/or something
 
2014-03-17 10:25:19 PM  

Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:

As for Putin, I don't know..

Thank you

For what, exactly? What does it mean, to you, that Putin is not listed on the list of sanctions?

Because the man said these sanctions were imposed against those people responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. Seriously, you can go through all the machinations and excuses you like but the rest of the world is laughing (sadly) along with the Russians

[cdn01.cdnwp.celebuzz.com image 245x285]

Got me there. Guess that's your answer for why Putin wasn't personally sanctioned.

Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?


It's a step. Yes it's escalation but a small one. Larger sanctions can still come.
 
2014-03-17 10:26:26 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.

And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?


I hate hypocrisy. I hate empty words. I hate giving false hope. But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting. But then a shiny object distracts America and they do nothing. So now these people who kept fighting are dying in even larger numbers because they believed something your president said. But who cares, he was courageous for letting Putin handle it, right?
 
2014-03-17 10:27:06 PM  
you love talking shiat
 
2014-03-17 10:27:34 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.

And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?


Obama Derangement Syndrome is a Hell of a drug.
 
2014-03-17 10:29:01 PM  

Agatha Crispy: But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side,


Islamic fundamentalists thought the US was on their side?
 
2014-03-17 10:29:55 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.

And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?

I hate hypocrisy. I hate empty words. I hate giving false hope. But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting. But then a shiny object distracts America and they do nothing. So now these people who kept fighting are dying in even larger numbers because they believed something your president said. But who cares, he was courageous for letting Putin handle it, right?


You are suggesting that the Syrian rebels would have stopped fighting if Obama hadn't said anything?
 
2014-03-17 10:29:59 PM  
"If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "God is crying." And if he asks why God is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you President Obama did."

FTF Jack Handey
 
2014-03-17 10:30:55 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.


Did you want more? Don't forget you live under the Monroe Doctrine and if Brazil ever looks at the US sideways well if necessary it will be a Marine/Airborne/ Naval restructuring of the Brazilian government if necessary. Granted the west has lots of money to start a revolution that ends with a coup, and loves that game. %0 year's from now you'll be able to take a European vacation on the Western bank of the Volga under NATO's protective sheild.

/That's what the Russ are worried about.
 
2014-03-17 10:31:19 PM  
Wahhh! America stuck thier nose in and I don't like that!

Wahhh! America didn't come bail us out and I don't like that!

Seriously crybaby, the reason we do it is because we might as well influence to our interests, you're going to cry like a biatch either way.
 
2014-03-17 10:33:03 PM  
it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails
 
2014-03-17 10:33:25 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.

And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?

I hate hypocrisy. I hate empty words. I hate giving false hope. But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting. But then a shiny object distracts America and they do nothing. So now these people who kept fighting are dying in even larger numbers because they believed something your president said. But who cares, he was courageous for letting Putin handle it, right?


Sarah Palin word salad response. Nice!

Focus, brother, focus!

Why is Obama's response, that means nothing as you said, any different from your suggestion to not respond at all? You are complaining about something that is equal to what you suggested. You do realize that, right?  Talk about the Crimea situation, only.
 
2014-03-17 10:35:32 PM  

Agatha Crispy: I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting.


I'm sure there were some who were foolish enough to confuse our opposition to the use of chemical weapons with support for the revolution, yes. Anyone who was paying attention, though, knew that the "red line" in Syria was exactly at the point where chemical weapons were used, and no further.

I suppose there are some who feel that anything the major powers say about chemical weapons, atrocities, etc. are just pretexts to engage in proxy war, and get confused by someone like Obama who, when he says "the use of chemical weapons is intolerable", actually <em>means</em> that and only that.
 
2014-03-17 10:35:43 PM  
and really, forcing the regime to initiate the process of getting rid of the chemical weapons was probably a far better option
 
2014-03-17 10:37:36 PM  

CanisNoir: Everyone saw the sanctions coming; there were news stories of Russians pulling their money out of the US in anticipation.
Nobody's going to be seriously hurt by this. Barring stronger leadership by the EU I don't see much else Obama can do.


I sorta hate you for making me agree with you for the first time ever(?), and the announced sanctions show the O administration is watching and has state futher sanctions could happen if Russia escalates from here. If the US, EU went full sanction Russia would just take Ukraine at least up to the Dneiper River.
 
2014-03-17 10:39:09 PM  
russia is going would like to take more of ukraine, one way or another, i don't think there is any doubt about that
 
2014-03-17 10:39:54 PM  

Mithiwithi: I suppose there are some who feel that anything the major powers say about chemical weapons, atrocities, etc. are just pretexts to engage in proxy war, and get confused by someone like Obama who, when he says "the use of chemical weapons is intolerable", actually <em>means</em> that and only that.


static.giantbomb.com

/for our mystery writing friend
 
2014-03-17 10:41:29 PM  

21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails


Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'
 
2014-03-17 10:42:02 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33:  Maybe you should only comment on the politics of your country.

Which one are you, Ukrainian or Russian?

Maybe you missed it, but we're talking about how the US is reacting to things over there. Remember that whole "obama's sanctions didn't mention putin and that's bad" thing you've been pushing?

Maybe you missed it. I was talking about the US sitting down and shutting up.

No, you were complaining about what Obama did.

Exactly, now you're getting it. He opened his mouth on something that doesn't concern him. He sanctioned Russian leaders but not The Russian Leader. What he said met absolutely nothing - that's my problem.

And yet you advocate doing nothing at all... which apparently means something? That makes not sense.

What I'm trying to understand is that if your suggested course of action will mean nothing (obviously doing nothing will mean nothing), why are you complaining about something that you say also means nothing?

I hate hypocrisy. I hate empty words. I hate giving false hope. But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting. But then a shiny object distracts America and they do nothing. So now these people who kept fighting are dying in even larger numbers because they believed something your president said. But who cares, he was courageous for letting Putin handle it, right?

Sarah Palin word salad response. Nice!

Focus, brother, focus!

Why is Obama's response, that means nothing as you said, any different from your suggestion to not respond at all? You are complaining about something that is equal to what you suggested. You do realize that, right?  Talk about the Crimea situation, only.


That's sad. I thought you brought up some good points, there was no name calling unlike some of the other dipshiats here, and you go and pull the "you disagree with me, you must be Sarah Palin" stuff. I already told you how much I hated the Bush administration but that wasn't good enough because I questioned your mighty Obama. Good luck, hope you guys don't embarrass yourselves too much, and I hope this all ends peacefully.
 
2014-03-17 10:42:03 PM  
i was going to say 'is going to try.' poor brain
 
2014-03-17 10:45:07 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'


i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.
 
2014-03-17 10:47:59 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: I hate hypocrisy. I hate empty words. I hate giving false hope. But it doesn't really affect you so what's the big deal. I imagine there were people in Syria, when Obama drew his red line, that believed that if the most powerful country on earth is on our side, we need to keep fighting. But then a shiny object distracts America and they do nothing. So now these people who kept fighting are dying in even larger numbers because they believed something your president said. But who cares, he was courageous for letting Putin handle it, right?

Sarah Palin word salad response. Nice!

Focus, brother, focus!

Why is Obama's response, that means nothing as you said, any different from your suggestion to not respond at all? You are complaining about something that is equal to what you suggested. You do realize that, right?  Talk about the Crimea situation, only.

That's sad. I thought you brought up some good points, there was no name calling unlike some of the other dipshiats here, and you go and pull the "you disagree with me, you must be Sarah Palin" stuff. I already told you how much I hated the Bush administration but that wasn't good enough because I questioned your mighty Obama. Good luck, hope you guys don't embarrass yourselves too much, and I hope this all ends peacefully.


What is sad is that you have now twice avoided answering a simple question with some half-assed response/excuse. One more time.

Why is Obama's response, that means nothing as you said, any different from your suggestion to not respond at all?

Third time, in various forms, I've posed this question. Last try.
 
2014-03-17 10:50:55 PM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.


So you're against the US American monopoly of power buy the 1%?
 
2014-03-17 10:57:40 PM  

davynelson: HOW CAN the USA or anybody accept the overthrowing of the Ukraine government as "OK", but have a big problem with the Crimean nonsense?


The Ukraine protests were an internal matter carried out between Ukrainians.  President Yanukovych escalated the situation past the point no return, at which point he fled to another country, forcing a constitutional crisis that the parliament had to deal with.  The interim has already established a date for new elections which will give the people of Ukraine the opportunity to decide whether it was all worth it.

The Crimean crisis occurred when Russian troops disguised as local militia seized key points within Crimea.  Putin picked out a local thug Sergei Aksyonov and elevated him.  Aksyonov formed a group of militia who stormed the Parliament building, locked out legislators who were not sufficiently pro-Russian, and rammed through a sham vote forcing the referendum.  When the local Tartars declared they would boycott, they were hit with a carrot-and-stick approach in which by day Russian Tartars lobbied hard to get the Crimean Tartars on board while by night, local pro-Russian gangs marked the houses of the same Crimean Tartars.  The referendum itself was a sham in that it offered no option to remain in Crimea.  During the referendum, pro-Russian thugs made sure the wrong people kept their mouths shut.

But hey, I guess that's ok since Ukrainians in Kiev threw rocks first.
 
2014-03-17 10:58:25 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.

So you're against the US American monopoly of power buy the 1%?


check the farkhives
 
2014-03-17 11:06:37 PM  
Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.
 
2014-03-17 11:06:54 PM  

AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?


lolwut
 
2014-03-17 11:12:12 PM  

jjorsett: AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?

Seems like it ought to be. Whenever something like a less-terrible-than-before jobs report comes along, he certainly gives himself the credit. You fought for this job, so for good or ill when something happens on your watch, it's yours, Mr. President.


So what should Obama have done differently?

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why we should be freaking out about this when even the EU doesn't seem to give a fark.

And they have a lot more to lose/gain than we do.
 
2014-03-17 11:12:16 PM  

theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: qorkfiend: Because that would constitute a significant escalation of the conflict, and there's no reason to do that?

So....why the sanctions? The US government says these sanctions are somehow going to hurt Russia. Isn't that escalation?

Not to speak for qorkfiend, but here's what I said earlier:  If I had to guess, the other dudes will feel some pain, maybe (hopefully) significant monetary pain and not like it one little bit after a while. Those dudes might be less supportive of Putin after a while. That might cause Putin some problems at home. Just a guess.


Targeted sanctions are like drone strikes. It puts a certain focus on one's activities one might not be expecting.
 
2014-03-17 11:18:29 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.


I just remembered I have an email account to check. :D

/runs off
 
2014-03-17 11:23:45 PM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.

So you're against the US American monopoly of power buy the 1%?

check the farkhives


That would take some time can you not give me a simple answer?

/What the hell is up with all these neo-cold warriors? They say everyone that disagree's is a paid shill or something....

I don't Russia but I sure do understand the why of what they have done so far .

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-03-17 11:27:13 PM  

whidbey: AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?

lolwut


I've said it before today US Americans only start paying attention when some country does something we don't like.
 
2014-03-17 11:28:14 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.


*quietly raises hand*

Erm ... Crimea? Couple of weeks ago?
 
2014-03-17 11:28:59 PM  

Agatha Crispy: theknuckler_33: Agatha Crispy: So Obama called up Putin and asked him if they could impose a few sanctions on a couple of Russian government officials (oh no, not you President Putin) and this will achieve what?

Yea, that's how it went down.

Oh, and what's your suggestion course of action?

Obama said that the sanctions were imposed on those people responsible for what is happening in Ukraine. But the sanctions don't mention Putin. Why?


Probably because the sanctions come with a travel ban which would potentially make in-person negotiations difficult.
 
2014-03-17 11:31:12 PM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.


Well, even though you're thread jacking exlain.

/"People get the government they deserve"
//Just do it take out Assad and see what happens.
 
2014-03-17 11:33:31 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: whidbey: AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?

lolwut

I've said it before today US Americans only start paying attention when some country does something we don't like.


Yeah but he's not "paying attention" he's got a "both sides" fixation, which really means he hates Obama. I'd bet on it.
 
2014-03-17 11:35:00 PM  

grumpfuff: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.

I just remembered I have an email account to check. :D

/runs off


Hey, you know I'll spank you'r ass at least historically, but this thread does seem too... Hmm ; )
 
2014-03-17 11:37:19 PM  
On the upside, this whole Ukrainian Crimea Russian fiasco sure does make for an awesome espionage thriller. Where is Ian Fleming when you need him?
 
2014-03-17 11:38:14 PM  

Isitoveryet: On the upside, this whole Ukrainian Crimea Russian fiasco sure does make for an awesome espionage thriller. Where is Ian Fleming when you need him?


He OD'd on toot sweets.
 
2014-03-17 11:43:15 PM  

whidbey: tinfoil-hat maggie: whidbey: AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?

lolwut

I've said it before today US Americans only start paying attention when some country does something we don't like.

Yeah but he's not "paying attention" he's got a "both sides" fixation, which really means he hates Obama. I'd bet on it.


Yeah, I've seen a lot of that through these threads and I'll admit I've read way too many of them but the US would never give up Mexico to China's sphere of influence and China is not dumb enough to include Mexico into the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
 
2014-03-17 11:43:39 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why we should be freaking out about this when even the EU doesn't seem to give a fark.


The EU does give a fark, they just don't know what to do about it.  They're so addicted to Russian oil and money that they're afraid of the consequences of pushing back too hard, which limits what we're able to do.
 
2014-03-17 11:46:42 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.

Well, even though you're thread jacking exlain.

/"People get the government they deserve"
//Just do it take out Assad and see what happens.


i think living under a state of emergency for 40-odd years kinda negates the "government they deserve"

so we're talking about power-sharing. when you talk about a state of emergency you're really saying any constitution has been torn up. when you talk about constitutions you talk about power vesting in the constitution, because it does - the constitution itself sets out stuff and takes power away from your rulers. so the important starting point is a constitution. you build in all the usual stuff and you get things like human rights, democracy, rule of law.

right, as for removing assad, one of the major lessons of iraq was the idea of not to go about disbanding everyone and creating a vacuum. so, i don't see why removing assad means disbanding the saa. so you've basically got the saa as you've got it now. on top of that you've got the moderate opposition who are interested in power sharing. then you've got the kurds who are interested in power sharing. so you've got a much bigger force that can concentrate on fighting the extremists than you've got now. then you've got the international community who all oppose the extremists, too. look at it like that
 
2014-03-17 11:52:22 PM  

Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.


Wow, that's a remarkably stupid statement. By that logic, Kaliningrad should go back to Germany, Transylvania (and parts of Ukraine, Slovakia, Serbia, Croatia and Austria) should go back to Hungary, and Arizona, New Mexico and much of Texas should go back to Mexico.

/ok they can take Arizona
//in the 1950s, Russia did not equal USSR
 
2014-03-17 11:52:31 PM  

whidbey: Isitoveryet: On the upside, this whole Ukrainian Crimea Russian fiasco sure does make for an awesome espionage thriller. Where is Ian Fleming when you need him?

He OD'd on toot sweets.


Oh, watch for new western movies. Russian government made an interesting movie along with Gazprov called The horde about an Orthodox Saint. it's on Netflix if you'r interested.
 
2014-03-17 11:52:45 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.




Winter War
 
2014-03-17 11:53:01 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.

I just remembered I have an email account to check. :D

/runs off

Hey, you know I'll spank you'r ass at least historically, but this thread does seem too... Hmm ; )


I have been told Fark is not for personal erotica, so therefore I will confine my answer to elsewhere. :D
 
2014-03-17 11:58:17 PM  

whidbey: Isitoveryet: On the upside, this whole Ukrainian Crimea Russian fiasco sure does make for an awesome espionage thriller. Where is Ian Fleming when you need him?

He OD'd on toot sweets.


I was interested, I wiki him... I had no idea about Ian's background. What a life & resume. Classy gentleman. He was a heavy drinker & smoker. I like him even more now.

Holy craps.

But it turns out his son had the drug addiction & the suicide wish.
 
2014-03-18 12:07:47 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

Well, I'd rather keep that to a relevant thread but the US decision was to make Syria into Beirut a 10+ year war along ethnic/religious lines.

/Just sayin'

i don't think so. syria is about power sharing. the assad family has for forty years accumulated more and more power. the time has come for them to share it. they're not sharers though.

Well, even though you're thread jacking explain.

/"People get the government they deserve"
//Just do it take out Assad and see what happens.

i think living under a state of emergency for 40-odd years kinda negates the "government they deserve"

so we're talking about power-sharing. when you talk about a state of emergency you're really saying any constitution has been torn up. when you talk about constitutions you talk about power vesting in the constitution, because it does - the constitution itself sets out stuff and takes power away from your rulers. so the important starting point is a constitution. you build in all the usual stuff and you get things like human rights, democracy, rule of law.

right, as for removing assad, one of the major lessons of iraq was the idea of not to go about disbanding everyone and creating a vacuum. so, i don't see why removing assad means disbanding the saa. so you've basically got the saa as you've got it now. on top of that you've got the moderate opposition who are interested in power sharing. then you've got the kurds who are interested in ...


I hate to say it but you are naive and have as far as I can tell no grasp on history. How old are you BTW? And do you not understand Greater Kurdistan still is under... Turkish, Syrian and Iranian rule and those countries are oppressing their freedom's oh and really is Kurd's only rule in Northern Iraq now due to the US, they are still basically at war with the Turks one of our NATO allies.
 
2014-03-18 12:13:35 AM  
tinfoil-hat maggie

I hate to say it but you are naive and have as far as I can tell no grasp on history. How old are you BTW? And do you not understand Greater Kurdistan still is under... Turkish, Syrian and Iranian rule and those countries are oppressing their freedom's oh and really is Kurd's only rule in Northern Iraq now due to the US, they are still basically at war with the Turks one of our NATO allies.

so, you've basically taken no issue with anything i have said, have gone off on tangents and thrown in a bunch of ad hominem. cool. you've got nothing then
 
2014-03-18 12:15:15 AM  

Repo Man: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.

Winter War

military conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland in 1939-1940. It began with Soviet invasion of Finland on 30 November 1939 (three months after the outbreak of World War II), and ended with the Moscow Peace Treaty on 13 March 1940. The League of Nations deemed the attack illegal and expelled the Soviet Union from the League on 14 December 1939.[26]


Still soviet but well oh and their where earlier fights. There.

Swedish invasion of Russia.. No really they should totes trust the west now.
 
2014-03-18 12:15:17 AM  
tinfoil-hat maggie

I hate to say it but you are naive and have as far as I can tell no grasp on history. How old are you BTW? And do you not understand Greater Kurdistan still is under... Turkish, Syrian and Iranian rule and those countries are oppressing their freedom's oh and really is Kurd's only rule in Northern Iraq now due to the US, they are still basically at war with the Turks one of our NATO allies.

so, you've basically taken no issue with anything i have said, have gone off on tangents and thrown in a bunch of ad hominem. cool. you've got nothing then. there we go, now with your "contribution" in italics
 
2014-03-18 12:22:06 AM  

Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.


There are international norms that allow that process to happen. You don't just send in your storm trooper thugs to take over land anymore.
 
2014-03-18 12:22:33 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

I hate to say it but you are naive and have as far as I can tell no grasp on history. How old are you BTW? And do you not understand Greater Kurdistan still is under... Turkish, Syrian and Iranian rule and those countries are oppressing their freedom's oh and really is Kurd's only rule in Northern Iraq now due to the US, they are still basically at war with the Turks one of our NATO allies.

so, you've basically taken no issue with anything i have said, have gone off on tangents and thrown in a bunch of ad hominem. cool. you've got nothing then. there we go, now with your "contribution" in italics


Did you have an opinion on what should be done on this? If so sorry I forgot ,I'm sure it was stellar policy making.
 
2014-03-18 12:25:13 AM  
tinfoil-hat maggie

Did you have an opinion on what should be done on this? If so sorry I forgot ,I'm sure it was stellar policy making.

don't show yourself up any more, please
 
2014-03-18 12:27:01 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.

There are international norms that allow that process to happen. You don't just send in your storm trooper thugs to take over land anymore.


Umm, yeah the civilized way is Iran '53 do you want me to go on with the coups and revolutions the USA back since 1945?
 
2014-03-18 12:29:42 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

Did you have an opinion on what should be done on this? If so sorry I forgot ,I'm sure it was stellar policy making.

don't show yourself up any more, please


?????
/What does it mean? Am i not welcome anymore with you crazy stupid people? Well I never was so, heh...
 
2014-03-18 12:35:30 AM  
tinfoil-hat maggie

?????
/What does it mean? Am i not welcome anymore with you crazy stupid people? Well I never was so, heh...


for what it's worth i was enjoying your contribution before you just started fighting
 
2014-03-18 12:43:06 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

Did you have an opinion on what should be done on this? If so sorry I forgot ,I'm sure it was stellar policy making.

don't show yourself up any more, please


Heh, hell since people in this threads are accusing each other of getting paid, how much do you get paid for that lame ass response. Next time please bring some facts to the table.
 
2014-03-18 12:52:43 AM  
what facts would you like, maggie?
 
2014-03-18 12:52:59 AM  

AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?


Because if you have been paying even the least possible bit of attention, you'd know by now that anything Obama does will be "wrong". And we're not talking 'can't please everyone' wrong, but wring in the eyes of the EXACT same people who consider this 'ineffective'.

They'd complain if we sent the military, they'd complain if we formed a coalition, they'd complain if he personally assassinated Purina, they'd complain if he sent Purina flowers and a "good luck with your invasion" card, they'd complain if he ignored it, they'd complain if he responded.

In short, no matter what happens, it's wrong, and it's "his" fault. Only people who don't have an Internet connection below the rock they live under know this. Jesus, they were biatching because he bought his daughters pink sweaters this week. Just two weeks ago, he was "acting like a dictator", now he's' soft and ineffective '.

He can't use the restroom in the WH without the Right accusing him of "disrespecting the noble institution". And don't get them started on his eating of crackers like he owns the place.
 
2014-03-18 01:00:18 AM  
i've got to hand walter - committing to peace the successful settlement of civil wars, cunningham - barriers to peace in civil war, monica duffy toft - securing the peace the durable settlement of civil wars, doyle and sabanis - making war and building peace, stedman rothchild and cousins - ending civil wars the implementation of peace agreements, yanacopulos and hanlon - civil war civil peace, walter and snyder - civil wars insecurity and intervention, hartzell and hoddie - crafting peace power sharing institutions and the negotiated settlement of civil wars, hartzell and hod die - strengthening peace in post-civil war states transforming spoilers into stakeholders, ramsbotham woodhouse and miall - contemporary conflict resolution

where would you like to start maggie?
 
2014-03-18 01:00:48 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

?????
/What does it mean? Am i not welcome anymore with you crazy stupid people? Well I never was so, heh...

for what it's worth i was enjoying your contribution before you just started fighting


I don't see this as a fight. Maybe you do and what your really saying is you ,re okay until I voice my opposition to the EU, and US adding Ukraine to their sphere of influence if not NATO. Granted I already believe the nest great war will be triggered by NATO expansionism into Eastern Europe. The Muscovite's always believed the west was after their stuff and really have proof. Sure they let Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania without a fight to NATO but now well...
 
2014-03-18 01:04:28 AM  

21-7-b: what facts would you like, maggie?


Real, ones ? Hell for shiat's and giggles lets start 100 years prior to the Muscovite occupation of Crimea. that might be an interesting discussion for the class : )
 
2014-03-18 01:08:19 AM  
you wanted to talk about syria. you dismissed my suggestions with ad hominem, told me i was naive and asked how old i was.  do you recall that? so where shall we start?
 
2014-03-18 01:15:32 AM  
History will show that President Obama, was in fact the greatest leader the United States, and the world, for that matter, ever had.
 
2014-03-18 01:24:14 AM  

21-7-b: i've got to hand walter - committing to peace the successful settlement of civil wars, cunningham - barriers to peace in civil war, monica duffy toft - securing the peace the durable settlement of civil wars, doyle and sabanis - making war and building peace, stedman rothchild and cousins - ending civil wars the implementation of peace agreements, yanacopulos and hanlon - civil war civil peace, walter and snyder - civil wars insecurity and intervention, hartzell and hoddie - crafting peace power sharing institutions and the negotiated settlement of civil wars, hartzell and hod die - strengthening peace in post-civil war states transforming spoilers into stakeholders, ramsbotham woodhouse and miall - contemporary conflict resolution

where would you like to start maggie?


Oh and sorry without a reference well, you lost me on those, sorry it happen's to be late. Also do you really want me to start quoting Cluaswitcth or or other Germans? of the time?

/ If you can't recognize Russia as a paranoid beaten child that happens to have the US and EU wanting to take the Ukraine, etc.. well you'5 you're not focus ed on the big picture. historical access to the Crimea maybe Ukraine.Adn the US well .

...But Putin is Hitler. I heard that back about Saddam in '89 or so after he had fought a 10 year war against (our enemy)Iran for us with the US providing chemical munitions.
 
2014-03-18 01:28:04 AM  
Cluaswitcth lol get out of town

so you don't want to talk about the current literature on ending civil wars then?

wrong kind of "facts"?
 
2014-03-18 01:28:22 AM  

21-7-b: you wanted to talk about syria. you dismissed my suggestions with ad hominem, told me i was naive and asked how old i was.  do you recall that? so where shall we start?


Are you still talking to me?

Explain the opening war bit in Alas Babylon.

/That should be fun.
You wanna prove how well read yo are?
 
2014-03-18 01:29:25 AM  
thecontributor.com

This has gone beyond stupid. You gave the reds capitalism and NOW you're mad?! LOL no wait...
 
2014-03-18 01:32:35 AM  
maggie - have a drink on me :) check out some of those books if you get time. get back to me when you have
 
2014-03-18 01:39:30 AM  
...triggered by NATO expansionism into Eastern Europe.

images.sodahead.com

But that's the exact opposite of what's happening.
I can assure you them Russians love the Beatles.
THAT'S ALL THEY CARE TO PLAY!
 
2014-03-18 01:40:12 AM  

21-7-b: maggie - have a drink on me :) check out some of those books if you get time. get back to me when you have


Which books? I didn't see any links from you.

You however might wanna start here.
ecx.images-amazon.com sure if you wanna go earlier feel free to offer real citations.
 
2014-03-18 01:44:02 AM  
try this post 2014-03-18 01:00:18 AM maggie. i'm going to say goodnight now. feel free to get back to me when you know what you are talking about rather than pretending to have some authority you clearly don't possess
 
2014-03-18 01:56:00 AM  

Propain_az: History will show that President Obama, was in fact the greatest leader the United States, and the world, for that matter, ever had.


nah.

But he's easily the best president we've had in my life time. hands down.
 
2014-03-18 02:09:35 AM  

log_jammin: Propain_az: History will show that President Obama, was in fact the greatest leader the United States, and the world, for that matter, ever had.

nah.

But he's easily the best president we've had in my life time. hands down.


Yep. If anything to see just how screwed up social conservatives can be. It's 10 times the derp of the Clinton years.
 
2014-03-18 02:15:31 AM  

21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails


That's largely because Russia supports Assad and have been using their propaganda machine to push an anti-intervention stance here in the States.

They're also, unsurprisingly pushing the notion that the US shouldn't get involved in the Ukraine in any way as it's "Not our problem".
 
2014-03-18 02:19:53 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: / If you can't recognize Russia as a paranoid beaten child that happens to have the US and EU wanting to take the Ukraine, etc.. well you'5 you're not focus ed on the big picture. historical access to the Crimea maybe Ukraine.Adn the US well .


"Take" the Ukraine? your bias is showing, dear.
 
2014-03-18 02:22:00 AM  

Repo Man: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.

Winter War


I did sorta call no Soviet, thing. but 1 things but sure Finland was just a protested route that the Russ couldn't take mostly at that time due to Nazi help, but sure, yeaej the Finns, kicked some butt in asymmetrical warfare.
 
2014-03-18 02:25:48 AM  

21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

?????
/What does it mean? Am i not welcome anymore with you crazy stupid people? Well I never was so, heh...

for what it's worth i was enjoying your contribution before you just started fighting


Did someone get their quoting privileges pulled?
 
2014-03-18 02:36:11 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: tinfoil-hat maggie: / If you can't recognize Russia as a paranoid beaten child that happens to have the US and EU wanting to take the Ukraine, etc.. well you'5 you're not focus ed on the big picture. historical access to the Crimea maybe Ukraine.Adn the US well .

"Take" the Ukraine? your bias is showing, dear.

All I know is the Muscovite Russ have already quietly ceded thir western most buffer's...
Some block is going to end up with it "dear".

You sure are playing a game of Geopolitics with you'r feeling as guides to what's right and wrong.
Well...

jag.lcc.gatech.edu

/Hey I'm old school and even the damn '80's worried me with crazy old man Ray gun..
 
2014-03-18 02:37:05 AM  

fusillade762: 21-7-b: tinfoil-hat maggie

?????
/What does it mean? Am i not welcome anymore with you crazy stupid people? Well I never was so, heh...

for what it's worth i was enjoying your contribution before you just started fighting

Did someone get their quoting privileges pulled?


48 hours without sleep. lizard brain has kicked in. and i'm still old school ;)
 
2014-03-18 02:42:39 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

That's largely because Russia supports Assad and have been using their propaganda machine to push an anti-intervention stance here in the States.

They're also, unsurprisingly pushing the notion that the US shouldn't get involved in the Ukraine in any way as it's "Not our problem".


Please elaborate on this "propaganda machine." You're saying the Russians are controlling media content here in the US?
 
2014-03-18 02:43:19 AM  
 
Rat [TotalFark]
2014-03-18 02:57:10 AM  
Won't anyone think about the price of 7.62?

™ jeez, we just went through this crap with 5.56
 
2014-03-18 02:59:40 AM  
His letter wasn't worded strongly.  Next time though....Watch Out Putin.  We know from his supporters that he personally led Seal Team 6 to OBL and then fired the fatal shot.  Then he pushed the body into the sea.  He knows where you live, Putin.  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

/Too strong?
 
2014-03-18 03:01:57 AM  

tbeatty: Seal Team 6 to OBL


God you're still so butthurt that Obama claims responsibility for that shiat, aren't you?

You should hit a pillow or something. History is not ever going to paint it the way you're spinning it, Jim.
 
2014-03-18 03:04:10 AM  

whidbey: Dwight_Yeast: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

That's largely because Russia supports Assad and have been using their propaganda machine to push an anti-intervention stance here in the States.

They're also, unsurprisingly pushing the notion that the US shouldn't get involved in the Ukraine in any way as it's "Not our problem".

whidbey: Dwight_Yeast: 21-7-b: it's not just fundamentalist fighting assad, but support for us intervention among the syrian people has been really, really low. i would support an intervention to take out the worst of the regime and the worst of the opposition, but a lot of americans don't and a lot of the international community don't. if you want to blame someone for the failure to intervene in syria following the ghouta attack blame david cameron who didn't whip his mps which took the wind right out of any coalition's sails

That's largely because Russia supports Assad and have been using their propaganda machine to push an anti-intervention stance here in the States.

They're also, unsurprisingly pushing the notion that the US shouldn't get involved in the Ukraine in any way as it's "Not our problem".

Please elaborate on this "propaganda machine." You're saying the Russians are controlling media content here in the US?

Please elaborate on this "propaganda machine." You're saying the Russians are controlling media content here in the US?


Haven't you heard Russia is diabolical like Obama, etc...etc...
 
2014-03-18 03:05:54 AM  
And something tells me it's close to someone's bed time....
 
2014-03-18 03:10:30 AM  

CanisNoir: Everyone saw the sanctions coming; there were news stories of Russians pulling their money out of the US in anticipation.
Nobody's going to be seriously hurt by this. Barring stronger leadership by the EU I don't see much else Obama can do.


How about he says that the agreement on Syria doesn't hold and he plans to start bombing them in the next few days?
 
2014-03-18 03:18:40 AM  

whidbey: And something tells me it's close to someone's bed time....


I'll admit the stupidity on foreign policy is a pet peeve but I was thinking I was pretty coherent.

/Wut? On this I feel strongly., put up or shut up if that's about me and well. Hey if you'r into another Eropeon war and yes Moscow is part of Europe after all thid wheather Ukraune likes it or not.they like it or not
 
2014-03-18 04:50:59 AM  

Dinki: This is all for show. Why? Because pretty much everyone that is honest knows one thing- that Crimea has much stronger ties to Russia than to Ukraine, and has had since they were annexed by Russia in 1783. So it only makes sense for Russia to absorb them now.


Dinki, you be stinky...
 
2014-03-18 05:19:46 AM  

Raoul Eaton: Putin doesn't care about sanctions.  He probably welcomes them, because each step we take toward a new cold war helps solidify his power and gives him a new excuse to crack down on political opposition.  He lives and breathes for this stuff.  He's going to take Crimea, there's nothing anybody will do to stop him, and everyone on every side knows it.  All this sanctions stuff is for hometown consumption.


And, therefore, a drone needs to draw a bead on him.
 
2014-03-18 05:21:57 AM  

whidbey: tbeatty: Seal Team 6 to OBL

God you're still so butthurt that Obama claims responsibility for that shiat, aren't you?


Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that.  It's entertaining fiction.
 
2014-03-18 05:49:42 AM  

tbeatty: Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that.


could you provide a quote where obama claims responsibility for that? cause that would be great.
 
2014-03-18 06:09:06 AM  

log_jammin: tbeatty: Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that.

could you provide a quote where obama claims responsibility for that? cause that would be great.


Ask Whidby.  He's the one who claims Obama gets credit.  Hey look, it's the same nonsense that blames him for Ukraine!!  Really the only conclusion is that Obama is irrelevant.
 
2014-03-18 06:15:49 AM  

tbeatty: Ask Whidby.  He's the one who claims Obama gets credit.  Hey look, it's the same nonsense that blames him for Ukraine!!  Really the only conclusion is that Obama is irrelevant.


no....you said "Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that. " That has nothing to do with what Whidbey did, or didn't, say.

so, do you have a quote where Obama claims the responsibility or not? If not, feel free to man up and admit you were completely wrong.
 
2014-03-18 07:04:23 AM  

Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?


1) You are not a world leader, so who gives a fark what you think or would do.
2) You imply that it's nobody's business what happens in Crimea, which instantly proves that your grasp of international politics, economics, or relations is equivalent to the depth of the sweat on the back of a maggot.
 
2014-03-18 07:20:07 AM  

tbeatty: log_jammin: tbeatty: Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that.

could you provide a quote where obama claims responsibility for that? cause that would be great.

Ask Whidby.  He's the one who claims Obama gets credit.  Hey look, it's the same nonsense that blames him for Ukraine!!  Really the only conclusion is that Obama is irrelevant.


Empty suit!
 
2014-03-18 07:58:56 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Agatha Crispy: My course of action: Keep your mouth shut - it has nothing to do with your country. Now I answered your question, you answer mine - why wasn't Putins name among those sanctioned?

1) You are not a world leader, so who gives a fark what you think or would do.
2) You imply that it's nobody's business what happens in Crimea, which instantly proves that your grasp of international politics, economics, or relations is equivalent to the depth of the sweat on the back of a maggot.


In fairness, I asked him/her what they would do instead of the apparently wrong actions Obama has taken. As to why doing nothing is apparently better than what Obama did, one can only guess.
 
2014-03-18 08:36:18 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.

Lots and lots of times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War#Russian_expansionism  Last Crimean war started because of Russia trying to annex parts of Turkey. In more modern times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War  Also the annexation of Poland between Russia and Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_history a hell of a lot of invasions on that list for a nation that never attacked anyone.

/Difficulty level zero
 
2014-03-18 08:45:22 AM  
My family needs more space, and someone to help mow the lawn.
I'm gonna walk over next door, break in, guard the windows and doors and demand by gunpoint that all persons inside the home sign a document saying they freely and without coercion give me their home, land, and all possessions therein.
If anyone looks funny or doesn't immediately pull their weight, I'll kill them and bury them under the house. I'll be sure to sleep with all the women there.
In 20 years, we'll have two house-fulls of my kids, which means that I now have solid claims to both homes, and a home-grown lawn care business.
But I sure could use more space. Hey, kids? Those houses next door could use some hedge-trimming, couldn't they?
 
2014-03-18 08:51:08 AM  

peter21: AngryDragon: Well, he's been president through the whole thing and for the 5 years prior.  Why wouldn't an ineffective response be his fault?

Clearly, you have the properly weighted response already thought up. Please, enlighten us, theoretical President AngryDragon...


I neither said I had an answer nor did I say he was providing an ineffective response.

I said that if his response is ineffective, who else would you blame exactly?
 
2014-03-18 09:43:43 AM  

fusillade762: We don't know who is getting sanctioned over Crimea

Subby should read his own article.


To be fair, we didn't know till we read the article (and forgot it immidiatly afterwards).
 
2014-03-18 09:52:27 AM  
If you can believe what is being reported, 95% in Crimea chose Russian rule.  Their former Ukrainian bosses were corrupt.  I can't seem to find any farks to give now that they want Putin.
 
2014-03-18 10:46:11 AM  

Mentat: Isitoveryet: Mentat: I don't understand.  If Obama has a magical time machine that he used to crash the economy, why doesn't he use it to go back in time and give child Putin a hug so that he grows up to be good?


oh man, that's time machine etiquette 101:

article 2 section B.

your time machine can not be used for the purposes of good.

But Obama is evil and breaking rules is evil, so I could totally see him using his time machine for good.  Because he's evil.


s11.postimg.org
 
2014-03-18 10:50:20 AM  

CPennypacker: Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.

Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.


Let's try a different tack.  I do understand that.  Now what do you want America to do about it?

Now I'm not a foreign policy expert, but I suspect that it wouldn't be in the best interest of Ukrainians living in Crimea or elsewhere for America to get involved in open military conflict with Russia inside of their borders.

Unless you think things turned out peachy for the people of SE Asia, in which case you're a mad man.
 
2014-03-18 10:56:05 AM  

whidbey: Please elaborate on this "propaganda machine." You're saying the Russians are controlling media content here in the US?


All Putin has to do is take his shirt off and Fox News becomes the Bear Wrestling Channel.
 
2014-03-18 11:05:17 AM  

BeesNuts: CPennypacker: Dinki: CPennypacker: How does me thinking Russia can go fark itself have anything to do with Obama? I'm Ukrainian asshole.

So you know the history of Crimea and Ukraine, right? And you know that Crimea wasn't a part of Ukraine until 1954 when it was given to Ukraine by... who exactly? Oh yeah, the Russians. And you know that the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians, right? So your outrage about about Russia reclaiming their territory, while understandable, is impotent.

Crimea is part of Ukraine now. I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding that.

Let's try a different tack.  I do understand that.  Now what do you want America to do about it?

Now I'm not a foreign policy expert, but I suspect that it wouldn't be in the best interest of Ukrainians living in Crimea or elsewhere for America to get involved in open military conflict with Russia inside of their borders.

Unless you think things turned out peachy for the people of SE Asia, in which case you're a mad man.


I don't think we should get involved in open conflict either, but something has to be done. This is EXACTLY how world war 2 started with Austria.
 
2014-03-18 11:47:21 AM  

goatan: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.
Lots and lots of times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War#Russian_expansionism  Last Crimean war started because of Russia trying to annex parts of Turkey. In more modern times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War  Also the annexation of Poland between Russia and Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_history a hell of a lot of invasions on that list for a nation that never attacked anyone.

/Difficulty level zero


Cool I really just wanted someone to use facts instead of heartfelt emotion.
 
2014-03-18 03:16:16 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: goatan: tinfoil-hat maggie: Look all of y'll saying why can't Putin just accept the Ukraine moving into the Western Sphere of Influence well you don't know or understand the Muscovite/Russ mindset.It's said really that a few comments from Churchill and Patton among others could really help keep Russia paranoid and worried about western aggression and well... sure Putin's now Hitler show me where Russia ever attacked before being invaded.... oh I would like to know.

/Difficulty no Soviet things like Afghanistan.I never did understand their strategic goals there except the where feeling isolated from western Europe.
Lots and lots of times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War#Russian_expansionism  Last Crimean war started because of Russia trying to annex parts of Turkey. In more modern times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War  Also the annexation of Poland between Russia and Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_history a hell of a lot of invasions on that list for a nation that never attacked anyone.

/Difficulty level zero

Cool I really just wanted someone to use facts instead of heartfelt emotion.


Ahh fair enough.
 
2014-03-18 06:25:39 PM  

Rat: Won't anyone think about the price of 7.62?

™ jeez, we just went through this crap with 5.56


I think the Russians are using 5.45 these days.
 
2014-03-19 01:35:18 AM  

tbeatty: whidbey: tbeatty: Seal Team 6 to OBL

God you're still so butthurt that Obama claims responsibility for that shiat, aren't you?

Actually I laugh that Obama claims responsibility for that.  It's entertaining fiction.


Oh you'll be whining about it when it's firmly placed in the history books. We will get the last laugh.
 
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