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(ACLU)   Court rules against creationist teacher who ridiculed Buddhist student. Where is your Bodhisattva now?   (aclu.org) divider line 54
    More: Spiffy, Buddhists, consent decrees, disaffection, regulations, faiths  
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7538 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 1:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2014-03-17 03:11:19 PM  
5 votes:

bluefoxicy:  the Incorporation Clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is incorrectly interpreted to force states to follow the rules imposed on the Federal government, which is a broken interpretation...

There can be no law restricting a school district from holding prayer as part of normal school services and hanging pictures of Jesus around.


Regarding the first: The 14th amendment specifically mentions citizens' privileges and immunities, the bill of rights is explicitly all about citizens' privileges and immunities.  Interpreting the 14th to extend bill of rights prohibitions to the states is entirely correct, exactly what was intended, and in no way broken.

Also, the "wall of separation" theory is outlined repeatedly under a dozen names in the federalist papers, which make the intent pretty clear.  Historical context (e.g. half the nation having come here as refugees from the British civil war) makes the goal of prohibiting a state religion and forbidding the religions from picking on each other fairly un-subtle as well.

Regarding the second, yes there can.  Such a law exists and it's called the first amendment.  A state actor using state resources, including wall space on a public building, to proselytize is "establishing a state religion".  Can't do that, sorry.  The whole point is that government actors and employees are not allowed to act in any way on behalf of religious authority.  Again, pretty much because we tried your way and what we got was farkin' Cromwell.
2014-03-17 02:03:23 PM  
5 votes:
www.slate.com

What religion in Louisiana might look like
2014-03-17 02:07:53 PM  
4 votes:
www.quotespedia.info
2014-03-17 01:54:05 PM  
4 votes:

somedude210: There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more


Wouldn't all Buddhists just want to be more Buddha-like?
Kind of like Christians being more . . . Oh.
never mind.
2014-03-17 02:43:22 PM  
3 votes:
my very Southern US style Christian neighbor was complaining about some Buddhist monks who were visiting one of the Neighbors.   I pointed out that the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Budda were so similar that a Christian could easily follow the way of Budda while still being a Christian.   She was so appalled and terrirfied that I did not understand the parts about intollerance and always eating meat, never doing good deeds or thinking good thoughts that she and her family no longer speak to me at all.

Maybe they figured out that I am an athiest.

Maybe they saw me talking to the Buddhists.
2014-03-17 02:14:15 PM  
3 votes:
Wait a second, I've been told numerous times that the ACLU is an atheist organization with a single goal of banning all religion but here they are representing the religious.
2014-03-17 01:52:07 PM  
3 votes:
How stupid can a school be to think that any of that's acceptable?
2014-03-17 03:47:33 PM  
2 votes:
bluefoxicy: I have been through this battle.  When I was in 5th grade I decided that the Pledge of Allegiance was incompatible with my personal ideals:  that swearing to stand beside a country regardless of its behavior, to fight for them for any and all reasons, was a foolish endeavor and left open too many questions of morality.  Thus I refused to participatewas just as starved for attention as I am today, and although as a 12-year old I lacked the "sophisticated" worldview that I have come to adopt in my adult years, this conjured-up memory is what I wish could have been true.  Anyway, I am a contrarian.  There. That feels better.

FTFY.
2014-03-17 03:15:30 PM  
2 votes:

bluefoxicy: impaler: It does of those religious functions prevent someone else's free exercise of their own religion. For instance if a school district was holding prayer as part of normal school services...

Then you can abstain.

I have been through this battle.  When I was in 5th grade I decided that the Pledge of Allegiance was incompatible with my personal ideals:  that swearing to stand beside a country regardless of its behavior, to fight for them for any and all reasons, was a foolish endeavor and left open too many questions of morality.  Thus I refused to participate.

My parents were none too amused.

The school was even less amused, and threatened disciplinary action.

I allowed them to continue the practice, but I did not allow them to include me.  The school can hang a crucifix or a picture of Jesus for all I care, but they cannot tell you that you must worship it, and they cannot be forced to remove it or to make other religious displays.


WRONG WRONG ALL SORTS OF WRONG! Schools can only display religious symbols as teaching aids and only then so one can understand cultural and religious heritage as a specific part of a class. Not only that, but the display must be temporary, not permanent. Supreme Court said so, and they kinda have the last say on this sort of thing. If you want to argue the Supreme Court is wrong, I highly encourage you to for our collective enjoyment.
2014-03-17 02:54:05 PM  
2 votes:

mlorton: There was a tremendous evacuation of Vietnamese (Theraveda Buddhist and Catholic) to the US after the war. Many settled in Louisiana because of the similarity of climate.

The family in the article was Thai, though.


well there was a big influx of Thai and Cambodans in the same time period at the end of the war so that makes sense.

Come to think of it, Mahayana Buddhism is really only what you'd find in China/Tibet/Japan. Southeast Asia is predominantly Theraveda. Kinda like how the Northeast is predominantly Catholic while the rest of the US is mostly Christian. Same kinda dynamic.

vudukungfu: Oh, I bash all religions equally.
If there were enlightenment, it could be taught.
If there were a way to eternal life, it could be achieved.
But there is no spiritual shortcut for attaining what mortals desire.


Eternal life could be thought of more as your soul, which lives on long after your physical body has passed on. Therefore, you could achieve eternal life if you look at it that way.

Enlightenment cannot be taught, the methods to find a way to it can be taught, but if you could teach enlightenment, would it really be enlightenment? Like all things, enlightenment is something different to all people.

The journey is what gets the mortal what they want, the end result isn't what the person desires, but the experiences one gains from the journey and the development of the mind in the process. That, ultimately, is what all mortals desire.
2014-03-17 02:53:41 PM  
2 votes:

AugieDoggyDaddy: Egoy3k: Wait a second, I've been told numerous times that the ACLU is an atheist organization with a single goal of banning all religion but here they are representing the religious.


From the  last paragraph of the article:  Real religious liberty includes not only the right to express and practice your faith in school,
 This from the ACLU?  WTF?


I was being sarcastic by the way.  The ACLU is second only to Planned parenthood when it comes to misinformation spread by cretins.
2014-03-17 02:44:51 PM  
2 votes:

somedude210: Marcus Aurelius: You can be a Buddhist anywhere. That's one of the beauties of Buddhism.

This is true, but it makes it incredibly easier to understand the teachings if you had a place of worship to visit and learn from. My reaction was more of a "wtf? Buddhists in the South?" type thing. I understand that Buddhists can be everywhere...and nowhere at the same time. :D


I'm an holistic Buddhist.  I take my teachings from the sum of my daily experience.

I did find it helped to follow a priest up until they confuse you, and you then realize you have to figure this shiat out for yourself.
2014-03-17 02:37:32 PM  
2 votes:

bluefoxicy: There's no such thing as separation of church and state.  It is a myth.  The Constitution of the United States makes it patently illegal for Federal Congress to impose law establishing a state religion or restricting the free practice thereof;


"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." - Thomas Jefferson.

But what does he know?
2014-03-17 02:31:16 PM  
2 votes:

bluefoxicy: Valid complaints:  Teachers are assholes; religion being taught as science.

Invalid complaints:  "Blatantly violating the separation of church and state."

There's no such thing as separation of church and state.  It is a myth.  The Constitution of the United States makes it patently illegal for Federal Congress to impose law establishing a state religion or restricting the free practice thereof; the Incorporation Clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States is incorrectly interpreted to force states to follow the rules imposed on the Federal government, which is a broken interpretation but still does not go so far as to impose Atheism as the state religion.

There can be no law restricting a school district from holding prayer as part of normal school services and hanging pictures of Jesus around.  It would be illegal to prohibit these things.


7/10 written well enough to be plausible.  You have trod the Middle Way of the Troll, but have chosen not to attain trollightenment so as to show the path to other travelers.  I salute you, Trollisattva.
2014-03-17 02:29:59 PM  
2 votes:

AugieDoggyDaddy: Egoy3k: Wait a second, I've been told numerous times that the ACLU is an atheist organization with a single goal of banning all religion but here they are representing the religious.


From the  last paragraph of the article:  Real religious liberty includes not only the right to express and practice your faith in school,
 This from the ACLU?  WTF?


Er, yes. Students have never been barred from practicing their religion in public schools. The teachers just can't be leading any prayers.
2014-03-17 02:08:21 PM  
2 votes:
Every area has it's rubes - we have skinheads in Huntington Beach, but they usually end-up in jail or squaler as a testament to their idiocy.

Still somewhat surprised to see a gov institution trying to get away with this crap, even in the South.

/ The butt hurt when folks are told that Jesus was a Buddah is somewhat fun to watchSpread the word!
2014-03-17 02:07:35 PM  
2 votes:

Orgasmatron138: I'm not of any particular religion, but I do like to meditate. I would love it if there were places set up where I live where you could just drop in and meditate in a low-lit, quiet area. It can be kind of a pain to try and meditate at home with all the noise.


Daiju visited the master Baso in China. Baso asked: "What do you seek?"

"Enlightenment," replied Daiju.

"You have your own treasure house. Why do you search outside?" Baso asked.

Daiju inquired: "Where is my treasure house?"

Baso answered: "What you are asking is your treasure house."
2014-03-17 02:07:08 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: Wait:  Jesus was judgmental?

I seem to recall a whole lot of "love thy neighbor" stuff from that there New Testiclemint, and even a bit of forgiveness in there somewhere.


Maybe that's the problem. His followers are overcompensating.
2014-03-17 02:00:05 PM  
2 votes:
In addition to denigrating C.C.'s Buddhist faith by calling it "stupid," school officials suggested he should transfer to another school with "more Asians.

All the other religions look pretty stupid to non-members.

But really, would you not want to throw your lot behind this peaceful and contented looking dude

s27.postimg.org

That this judgmental worry-wart?

s17.postimg.org
2014-03-17 01:51:29 PM  
2 votes:
If one judges the quality of a religion (or its founder) by the actions of its followers, Jesus must be a total asshat.

And America should really stop talking about "Constitution" and "democracy" and "fark, yeah" if you're not going to wall off your vicious retards from contaminating the social experiment with their inbred shiat.
2014-03-17 01:25:49 PM  
2 votes:

dittybopper: Can you show me?


What? The shine of your Japan? Or the sparkle of your China?
2014-03-17 11:47:37 PM  
1 votes:

K3rmy: vudukungfu: somedude210: There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more

Wouldn't all Buddhists just want to be more Buddha-like?
Kind of like Christians being more . . . Oh.
never mind.

I am all for Christian's being more Christlike but that would require a crapload of wood for the crosses, not to mention the nails needed. . .


I'd settle for them listening to his teachings.
2014-03-17 05:42:04 PM  
1 votes:

Necronic: How stupid can a school be to think that any of that's acceptable?


They're not stupid. Well, not that stupid. They're evil. They're Christian Dominionists, and they burn with hatred for America, the First Amendment, and everything they represent.
2014-03-17 04:54:37 PM  
1 votes:

vudukungfu: If there were enlightenment, it could be taught.


Teach me to paint as well as the greatest artists of all time. If you cannot, skill in art does not exist.

Teach me write books that rival the greatest ever written. If you cannot, skill in writing books does not exist.


Do you get the point yet?
2014-03-17 04:07:19 PM  
1 votes:
How the ruling said it:

"A federal district court entered an order requiring the school district to refrain from unconstitutionally promoting or denigrating religion."

How the school hears it:

"A federal district court entered an order requiring the school district to  words words words stuff blah blah blah words refrain from  words words denigrating religion."

And then they'll say "But stomping on them hoe moes IS me practicing mah rellijus freedumz!"
2014-03-17 03:29:46 PM  
1 votes:

bluefoxicy: There can be no law restricting a school district from holding prayer as part of normal school services and hanging pictures of Jesus around.  It would be illegal to prohibit these things.


not sure if serious.
2014-03-17 03:24:44 PM  
1 votes:
It never ceases to amaze me that the same folks that scream about loving the constitution can only seem to apply it to the 2nd amendment and give fark all about the 1st.
2014-03-17 03:04:01 PM  
1 votes:

bluefoxicy: Man On Pink Corner: Um, it's not "free exercise thereof" if my taxes are subsidizing it.

Free as in FREEDOM, not as in BEER.

Secondly, your taxes are not subsidizing your right to freely exercise your religion.  You don't pay taxes to be allowed to not be Catholic Protestant.


impaler: "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." - Thomas Jefferson.

But what does he know?

Well, I contemplate that the right of the "people to keep and bear arms" means that the people may be armed.  Our people are armed:  we have a military.  You, individual citizen, are not part of the military, and may not own a gun.

Oh, that's wrong?

No shiat.  Saying a bunch of stuff about what you contemplate about a law doesn't mean that's what the law says.  The law says you can't make guns illegal, and the law says you can't make laws preventing the free exercise of religion.  It doesn't say state functions must be non-religious.



Really? Because that's not how the Supreme Court interprets the law. But don't let that interrupt your train of thought, please continue and inform us what state functions can be religious and still be considered legal so we can laugh at your trolly trolly attempts at ignoring decades of precedent setting decisions.
2014-03-17 02:53:50 PM  
1 votes:

impaler: It does of those religious functions prevent someone else's free exercise of their own religion. For instance if a school district was holding prayer as part of normal school services...


Then you can abstain.

I have been through this battle.  When I was in 5th grade I decided that the Pledge of Allegiance was incompatible with my personal ideals:  that swearing to stand beside a country regardless of its behavior, to fight for them for any and all reasons, was a foolish endeavor and left open too many questions of morality.  Thus I refused to participate.

My parents were none too amused.

The school was even less amused, and threatened disciplinary action.

I allowed them to continue the practice, but I did not allow them to include me.  The school can hang a crucifix or a picture of Jesus for all I care, but they cannot tell you that you must worship it, and they cannot be forced to remove it or to make other religious displays.
2014-03-17 02:51:15 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: Marcus Aurelius: You can be a Buddhist anywhere. That's one of the beauties of Buddhism.

This is true, but it makes it incredibly easier to understand the teachings if you had a place of worship to visit and learn from. My reaction was more of a "wtf? Buddhists in the South?" type thing. I understand that Buddhists can be everywhere...and nowhere at the same time. :D


I'm not a Buddhist, but live a lot of the philosophy.

Chanting "nam myoho renge kyo" got me a zen pass from pain periodically after a series of operations a few years ago. There are many good things in every religion, if only people are willing to look.
2014-03-17 02:46:57 PM  
1 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: I'm an holistic Buddhist. I take my teachings from the sum of my daily experience.

I did find it helped to follow a priest up until they confuse you, and you then realize you have to figure this shiat out for yourself.


Same here, they're a good resource for getting started but ultimately, your path to enlightenment is what you make of it.
2014-03-17 02:45:56 PM  
1 votes:

bluefoxicy: It doesn't say state functions must be non-religious.


It does of those religious functions prevent someone else's free exercise of their own religion. For instance if a school district was holding prayer as part of normal school services...
2014-03-17 02:42:55 PM  
1 votes:
What kind of uneducated inbred hick would yell, "You f*cking n*gger Asian-loving biatch"?

Seriously, is that supposed to be an insult or do you have Tourette's?
2014-03-17 02:40:33 PM  
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: In addition to denigrating C.C.'s Buddhist faith by calling it "stupid," school officials suggested he should transfer to another school with "more Asians.

All the other religions look pretty stupid to non-members.


"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." -- Robert Heinlein
2014-03-17 02:36:43 PM  
1 votes:

Valiente: If one judges the quality of a religion (or its founder) by the actions of its followers, Jesus must be a total asshat.

And America should really stop talking about "Constitution" and "democracy" and "fark, yeah" if you're not going to wall off your vicious retards from contaminating the social experiment with their inbred shiat.


We did.  It's called "the deep south".
2014-03-17 02:36:02 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more


You can be a Buddhist anywhere.  That's one of the beauties of Buddhism.
2014-03-17 02:33:58 PM  
1 votes:

AugieDoggyDaddy: Egoy3k: Wait a second, I've been told numerous times that the ACLU is an atheist organization with a single goal of banning all religion but here they are representing the religious.


From the  last paragraph of the article:  Real religious liberty includes not only the right to express and practice your faith in school,
 This from the ACLU?  WTF?


ACLU doesn't take sides (or at least they strive not to).  They've represented atheists, racists (you might look up their work in Skokie, Ill), religious groups ...basically people who they feel have been denied their civil rights under the Constitution.  I'm a Christian, and I think they're one of the most important organizations  out there - they defend everybody, whether it's popular to or not (again, see Skokie).
2014-03-17 02:28:30 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Day_Old_Dutchie: In addition to denigrating C.C.'s Buddhist faith by calling it "stupid," school officials suggested he should transfer to another school with "more Asians.

All the other religions look pretty stupid to non-members.

But really, would you not want to throw your lot behind this peaceful and contented looking dude

[s27.postimg.org image 187x300]

That this judgmental worry-wart?

[s17.postimg.org image 189x256]

Wait:  Jesus was judgmental?

I seem to recall a whole lot of "love thy neighbor" stuff from that there New Testiclemint, and even a bit of forgiveness in there somewhere.


His old man was waaaay too into smiting. ;-)

/raised Catholic
//now? not so much
2014-03-17 02:26:08 PM  
1 votes:

Egoy3k: Wait a second, I've been told numerous times that the ACLU is an atheist organization with a single goal of banning all religion but here they are representing the religious.



From the  last paragraph of the article:  Real religious liberty includes not only the right to express and practice your faith in school,
 This from the ACLU?  WTF?
2014-03-17 02:23:30 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Anayalator: vudukungfu: dittybopper: Can you show me?

It ain't long.

...but it sure is skinny

It never stopped me from gettin' busy

/I'm a freak.


It is not the within the Eightfold Path to drink up all the Hennessey I got on my shelf.
2014-03-17 02:19:27 PM  
1 votes:
Day_Old_Dutchie: In addition to denigrating C.C.'s Buddhist faith by calling it "stupid," school officials suggested he should transfer to another school with "more Asians.
 
All the other religions look pretty stupid to non-members.

But really, would you not want to throw your lot behind this peaceful and contented looking dude

[s27.postimg.org image 187x300]

That this judgmental worry-wart?

[s17.postimg.org image 189x256]



I just have to.

http://www.pinoyanime.tv/saint-young-men-episode-1/
2014-03-17 02:11:03 PM  
1 votes:
Unfortunately, it's rather sad that a country pretty much founded on the principle of religious freedom (to spare the country from monotheistic shiatshows popular throughout history) oh, and btw, did we mention that this was the first farking Bill O Right we mentioned? would fail so miserably in moving beyond this Jesus vs the world garbage?

Would prefer a state where religion, any religion, is recognized merely as a condition listed in the DSM-5.
2014-03-17 02:07:53 PM  
1 votes:

impaler: His followers are overcompensating.


Explains the sword thing, then.
2014-03-17 02:06:12 PM  
1 votes:

lindalouwho: Don't need a temple to meditate, don't need a church to pray, don't need a synagouge to worship...


Yeah, but you do need them for your tax exempt forms from the IRS.
Especially if you intend to pass the plate.

You know, One man, sitting in a store front window probably raised more money and awareness to help sick children than the entire mass of churches in the county he did it in and all he has to do was say "Start your heart, eat a Farkelberry Tart, and tear the world apart"

now THAT's enlightenment.

RIP, Jack.
2014-03-17 02:03:19 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: we all want to be more Buddha like, but it's a matter of deciding who has it in them to reach Buddha


Then they have failed to reach enlightenment.
2014-03-17 02:03:19 PM  
1 votes:

lindalouwho: Don't need a temple to meditate, don't need a church to pray, don't need a synagouge to worship.....


Very true, but it does give you a better resource if you want spiritual guidance
2014-03-17 02:02:55 PM  
1 votes:

lindalouwho: somedude210: There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more

Don't need a temple to meditate, don't need a church to pray, don't need a synagouge to worship.....


I'm not of any particular religion, but I do like to meditate. I would love it if there were places set up where I live where you could just drop in and meditate in a low-lit, quiet area. It can be kind of a pain to try and meditate at home with all the noise.
2014-03-17 02:00:02 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Necronic: How stupid can a school be to think that any of that's acceptable?

Louisiana. Public. School.

If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what will.


Beat me to it. Unless you live in NOLA or Baton Rouge, that whole state is pretty much the epitomy of herp-a-derp.
2014-03-17 01:59:39 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more


Don't need a temple to meditate, don't need a church to pray, don't need a synagouge to worship.....
2014-03-17 01:56:14 PM  
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Wouldn't all Buddhists just want to be more Buddha-like?
Kind of like Christians being more . . . Oh.
never mind.


Both types of teachings believe different things. Theraveda believe that only scholars and monks can reach total enlightenment (the Buddha) whereas Mahayana branches believe that all people have the ability to reach total enlightenment.

There are other variances but that's the biggest difference. So, yes, we all want to be more Buddha like, but it's a matter of deciding who has it in them to reach Buddha
2014-03-17 01:55:14 PM  
1 votes:

Anayalator: vudukungfu: dittybopper: Can you show me?

It ain't long.

...but it sure is skinny


We're sticking to Charlemagne lyrics.
2014-03-17 01:52:48 PM  
1 votes:

Necronic: How stupid can a school be to think that any of that's acceptable?


Louisiana. Public. School.

If that doesn't answer your question, I don't know what will.
2014-03-17 01:51:15 PM  
1 votes:
farking people.  I swear.  fark.
2014-03-17 12:57:52 PM  
1 votes:
There are Buddhists in Louisiana? How the fark does that work? I'm a Buddhist in MA and I know of 1 temple in my area, and it's not even my teaching of Buddhism (I'm a Mahayada Buddhist, most Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Indian Buddhists are Theraveda branch Buddhism). I can't imagine how tough it is to find a temple to mediate at down south.

/which reminds me, I should meditate more
 
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