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(Huffington Post)   Bob Corker accuses Kerry of "wishy-washiness" Kerry retorts by calling Corker a "Do-nothing poopyhead" and then things just got childish   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 34
    More: Stupid, Bob Corker, Vladimir Putin, U.S., East Ukraine, Sergey Lavrov, Senate Foreign Relations Committee, resolve  
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566 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Mar 2014 at 11:11 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-17 11:16:17 AM
Somebody needs to call out Republicans for basically wanting to start World War III. "Obama's weakness is inviting Putin to make land grabs! He needs to show strength and act!" Well, and do what exactly? What's the plan here? Where are the alternatives between a war nobody wants to fight and sanctions that our allies don't want?
 
2014-03-17 11:16:43 AM
Well that settles that. This "diplomacy" (whatever that is) thing is obviously getting us nowhere. Let's show Russia how decisive we are by bombing them!
 
2014-03-17 11:17:21 AM
It wouldn't matter what Kerry said. They're determined to say something negative about him and the Obama administration no matter what the facts or the situation is. They are ideologues, not journalists.
 
2014-03-17 11:19:58 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Somebody needs to call out Republicans for basically wanting to start World War III. "Obama's weakness is inviting Putin to make land grabs! He needs to show strength and act!" Well, and do what exactly? What's the plan here? Where are the alternatives between a war nobody wants to fight and sanctions that our allies don't want?


Nobody is advocating starting WWIII, but you have to admit, Kerry's words were decidedly unhelpful and wishy washy. You don't waggle your finger and threaten sanctions then at the end say "Oh and by the way, that's *not* really a threat and don't take it personally ya know" - I mean come on. That was just stupid.
 
2014-03-17 11:20:40 AM
Kerry is actually doing way more behind the scenes than chickerhawks like Bob Corker can even comprehend.

See, back in the early 1960s a really revolutionary idea can from guys like John Kennedy and Maxwell Taylor. It was the concept that you could avoid total nuclear war by, you know, diplomacy. And MAYBE if you went to war you could limit it to conventional means rather than total use of the SIOP.
I know these seem like foreign concepts but they worked really well at the time.
 
2014-03-17 11:21:09 AM
If you use the word emboldening, you're an asshole.

It's always true.
 
2014-03-17 11:23:44 AM
Since they own it now, it should be on the Russians to give us a consistent pronunciation of Crimea. That's what Corker meant to say.
 
2014-03-17 11:24:14 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Somebody needs to call out Republicans for basically wanting to start World War III. "Obama's weakness is inviting Putin to make land grabs! He needs to show strength and act!" Well, and do what exactly? What's the plan here? Where are the alternatives between a war nobody wants to fight and sanctions that our allies don't want?


Chaide: Well that settles that. This "diplomacy" (whatever that is) thing is obviously getting us nowhere. Let's show Russia how decisive we are by bombing them!


Exactly, the choice is between hankie-wringing or raining down bombs, there are no other possible responses.
 
2014-03-17 11:25:57 AM
"The comment that Secretary Kerry made is not helpful, and it shows a wishy-washiness that we do not as a nation at this point need to show. We have commitments," Corker said.

What exactly are our commitments to Ukraine?
 
2014-03-17 11:28:12 AM

jjorsett: Exactly, the choice is between hankie-wringing or raining down bombs, there are no other possible responses.


Well, see, Bush invaded a near defenseless country on a trumped up pretext, which shows strength, while Obama isn't outright attacking the country with the second largest number of nuclear weapons over a territorial dispute.
 
2014-03-17 11:34:57 AM

CanisNoir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Somebody needs to call out Republicans for basically wanting to start World War III. "Obama's weakness is inviting Putin to make land grabs! He needs to show strength and act!" Well, and do what exactly? What's the plan here? Where are the alternatives between a war nobody wants to fight and sanctions that our allies don't want?

Nobody is advocating starting WWIII, but you have to admit, Kerry's words were decidedly unhelpful and wishy washy. You don't waggle your finger and threaten sanctions then at the end say "Oh and by the way, that's *not* really a threat and don't take it personally ya know" - I mean come on. That was just stupid.


Then what do you do? I want concrete plans of action. Do you want a hard red line with military action if crossed? A red line for sanctions that will punish Europe as well as Russia and escalate the situation. This is what I'm getting at here.
 
2014-03-17 11:37:20 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Then what do you do? I want concrete plans of action. Do you want a hard red line with military action if crossed? A red line for sanctions that will punish Europe as well as Russia and escalate the situation. This is what I'm getting at here.


How about keeping your farking trap shut after threatening sanctions. That is the problem I have with it. Don't threaten sanctions than caveat it by saying "but it's not a threat and don't stop being our buddy, please, pretty please with sugar on top."

You threaten the sanctions and leave it at that. I'm not critisizing Obama so ya know calm down, Kerry, however, was stupid and unhelpful for saying what he said.
 
2014-03-17 11:39:27 AM

CanisNoir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Then what do you do? I want concrete plans of action. Do you want a hard red line with military action if crossed? A red line for sanctions that will punish Europe as well as Russia and escalate the situation. This is what I'm getting at here.

How about keeping your farking trap shut after threatening sanctions. That is the problem I have with it. Don't threaten sanctions than caveat it by saying "but it's not a threat and don't stop being our buddy, please, pretty please with sugar on top."

You threaten the sanctions and leave it at that. I'm not critisizing Obama so ya know calm down, Kerry, however, was stupid and unhelpful for saying what he said.


How do you back up those sanctions when nobody will actually follow through on them? What is the enforcement mechanism?
 
2014-03-17 11:40:25 AM

ikanreed: jjorsett: Exactly, the choice is between hankie-wringing or raining down bombs, there are no other possible responses.

Well, see, Bush invaded a near defenseless country on a trumped up pretext, which shows strength, while Obama isn't outright attacking the country with the second largest number of nuclear weapons over a territorial dispute.


Yes, but when Russia invaded Georgia, Bush sent the might of the US military...oh, wait, he sent his Secretary of State, to be the 2nd banana after the EU, specifically, the French, negotiated a cease fire and peace plan.

So, if I'm following the logic (if such can be applied to today's republican party) today's republicans are dumber than Bush?
 
2014-03-17 11:41:01 AM

trotsky: Kerry is actually doing way more behind the scenes than chickerhawks like Bob Corker can even comprehend.

See, back in the early 1960s a really revolutionary idea can from guys like John Kennedy and Maxwell Taylor. It was the concept that you could avoid total nuclear war by, you know, diplomacy. And MAYBE if you went to war you could limit it to conventional means rather than total use of the SIOP.
I know these seem like foreign concepts but they worked really well at the time.


And then we got McNamara and Westmoreland escalating US involvement in a country we didn't need to bother with.

And it was also under Kennedy's watch that we assassinated Diem.
 
2014-03-17 11:45:48 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: How do you back up those sanctions when nobody will actually follow through on them? What is the enforcement mechanism?


I don't care, and beside the point. The *point* is, you don't negotiate by ending your threats with "but don't worry about taking me seriously because we'd be silly to actually 'threaten' you, cuz we're still buds, right? Right?"

Can you not have the honesty to at least admit that Kerry said something stupid, unhelpful and rather bumbling?

/This is almost one time I wish Hill-dawg were still SOS.
 
2014-03-17 11:48:05 AM
Put a cork in it Bob... Corker!
 
2014-03-17 11:49:00 AM

CanisNoir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: How do you back up those sanctions when nobody will actually follow through on them? What is the enforcement mechanism?

I don't care, and beside the point. The *point* is, you don't negotiate by ending your threats with "but don't worry about taking me seriously because we'd be silly to actually 'threaten' you, cuz we're still buds, right? Right?"

Can you not have the honesty to at least admit that Kerry said something stupid, unhelpful and rather bumbling?

/This is almost one time I wish Hill-dawg were still SOS.


I think we're still interested in leaving them a way out. This is diplomats being diplomats.
 
2014-03-17 11:52:21 AM
Well certainly nobody can accuse Corker of making an "unhelpful" comment.

Nor can he be accused of being "wishy-washy". He's been consistent in his opposition to health care reform, financial regulations, background checks for gun buyers, stimulus measures to counteract the recession, and keeping the auto industry from bankruptcy.

/ fun fact: Corker won his Senate seat with racist TV ads.
 
2014-03-17 11:53:27 AM

CanisNoir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: How do you back up those sanctions when nobody will actually follow through on them? What is the enforcement mechanism?

I don't care, and beside the point. The *point* is, you don't negotiate by ending your threats with "but don't worry about taking me seriously because we'd be silly to actually 'threaten' you, cuz we're still buds, right? Right?"

Can you not have the honesty to at least admit that Kerry said something stupid, unhelpful and rather bumbling?

/This is almost one time I wish Hill-dawg were still SOS.


Kerry told the truth that there's nothing we're willing or able to do to prevent Russia from annexing Crimea. We know it. They know it. That you're unwilling to say how you would enforce sanctions implies that you know it. A strong declaration of our resolve doesn't mean anything if it has no teeth.

Kerry was a wishy washy flub because our only policy in the region is being wishy washy flubs. Even if he had stood behind his words, nobody would believe it, rendering the whole episode moot.
 
2014-03-17 11:57:24 AM

CanisNoir: This is almost one time I wish Hill-dawg were still SOS.


I'm sure if that were the case you'd reflexively hate everything she does, too.
 
2014-03-17 12:01:08 PM

HotWingConspiracy: I think we're still interested in leaving them a way out. This is diplomats being diplomats.


Of course, however you don't have to crap all over everything you just said to leave them a way out. Sorry but Kerry either made a mistake or demonstrated incompitence, it's one or the other.

Either make the threat, and let it stand, or don't make the threat, but making the threat and then saying it's not a threat and nothing was "personal" just basically said "just ignore everything I just said". It makes us look worse than if we'd kept our mouth shut. On Kerry, Corker is right; that's not to say that Obama is doing a bad job or anything because I don't think he is, I just think Kerry stepped in it.
 
2014-03-17 12:03:50 PM

CanisNoir: HotWingConspiracy: I think we're still interested in leaving them a way out. This is diplomats being diplomats.

Of course, however you don't have to crap all over everything you just said to leave them a way out. Sorry but Kerry either made a mistake or demonstrated incompitence, it's one or the other.

Either make the threat, and let it stand, or don't make the threat, but making the threat and then saying it's not a threat and nothing was "personal" just basically said "just ignore everything I just said". It makes us look worse than if we'd kept our mouth shut. On Kerry, Corker is right; that's not to say that Obama is doing a bad job or anything because I don't think he is, I just think Kerry stepped in it.


Hypothetical: Kerry makes the threat. Russia continues on course. How do you enforce it? How far are you willing to take it?
 
2014-03-17 12:14:19 PM
And not a single suggestion as to what to do was given... again.
 
2014-03-17 12:18:26 PM

theknuckler_33: And not a single suggestion as to what to do was given... again.


It doesn't matter.  Whatever is done will still be wrong.  Obama is the worst warmongering appeaser ever.
 
2014-03-17 12:21:28 PM

CanisNoir: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Somebody needs to call out Republicans for basically wanting to start World War III. "Obama's weakness is inviting Putin to make land grabs! He needs to show strength and act!" Well, and do what exactly? What's the plan here? Where are the alternatives between a war nobody wants to fight and sanctions that our allies don't want?

Nobody is advocating starting WWIII, but you have to admit, Kerry's words were decidedly unhelpful and wishy washy. You don't waggle your finger and threaten sanctions then at the end say "Oh and by the way, that's *not* really a threat and don't take it personally ya know" - I mean come on. That was just stupid.


Wanting to keep the lines of communication open by not being personally belligerent is just stupid. Got it.
 
2014-03-17 12:22:10 PM
Kerry should be praised for not pushing for swift action that ends up in a boatload of trouble.
 
2014-03-17 12:44:51 PM

UNC_Samurai: trotsky: Kerry is actually doing way more behind the scenes than chickerhawks like Bob Corker can even comprehend.

See, back in the early 1960s a really revolutionary idea can from guys like John Kennedy and Maxwell Taylor. It was the concept that you could avoid total nuclear war by, you know, diplomacy. And MAYBE if you went to war you could limit it to conventional means rather than total use of the SIOP.
I know these seem like foreign concepts but they worked really well at the time.

And then we got McNamara and Westmoreland escalating US involvement in a country we didn't need to bother with.

And it was also under Kennedy's watch that we assassinated Diem.


True, but they didn't nuke the Russkies. Before 1962 the threat of nuclear was was immense, after the Missile Crisis it died down considerably. Vietnam was part of the "proxy war" syndrome that both superpowers eventually succumbed to.

Vietnam aside, the SIOP was the bible and if anything happened, it was balls to the wall full on nuclear devastation. Kennedy changed, or tried to, change that. Idiots on both sides of the isle would routinely threaten nuclear attack as an alternative to diplomacy and it rarely worked. Nixon tried it in '69 or '70...everybody laughed.
 
2014-03-17 01:01:34 PM

theknuckler_33: Wanting to keep the lines of communication open by not being personally belligerent is just stupid. Got it.


Well considering that's not at all what I said, umm...sure.

Basically, if you can't back up your words, don't utter them. If you're going to push sanctions, don't end by saying "but seriously, I can't deliver a thing I just said I could so don't take that as a threat or personally."
 
2014-03-17 01:18:03 PM

Cletus C.: Kerry should be praised for not pushing for swift action that ends up in a boatload of trouble.


What you did there.  I see it.
 
2014-03-17 01:35:22 PM
The situation, as I see it, is Bob Corker is a chickenhawk from Tennessee who is in lockstep with the GOP in opposing anything the Obama administration does. Publicly criticizing the Secretary of State while Kerry is attempting to defuse a dangerous situation is not helpful.
 
2014-03-17 02:00:19 PM
If the American people do their oh-shiat-we're-scared-quick-vote-Republican crap over all this, I'mma be pissed.
 
2014-03-17 02:22:34 PM
Fine, I'll post it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWkrwENN5CQ
 
2014-03-17 03:14:44 PM

CanisNoir: theknuckler_33: Wanting to keep the lines of communication open by not being personally belligerent is just stupid. Got it.

Well considering that's not at all what I said, umm...sure.

Basically, if you can't back up your words, don't utter them. If you're going to push sanctions, don't end by saying "but seriously, I can't deliver a thing I just said I could so don't take that as a threat or personally."


Well, considering that's not at all what he said, umm... sure.
 
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