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(BBC-US)   European politicians back law stating that all cellphones must use the same type of charger. Apple's hit squad reportedly on standby   (bbc.com) divider line 46
    More: Interesting, Europe, draft law, smartphones, roadrunner  
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1099 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 Mar 2014 at 12:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-17 11:21:30 AM  
Didn't they already do this? And everyone but Apple then moved to USB Micro?
 
2014-03-17 12:04:13 PM  
European member states will have until 2016 to translate the regulation into national laws and manufacturers will then have 12 months to switch to the new design. The process of getting manufacturers to agree on a common design began in 2009.

And here's the downside of this sort of government action.

What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.
Is it going to be 2024 before a new and improved charger can actually be used?
 
2014-03-17 12:16:39 PM  

serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.


Or maybe one that doesn't get destroyed when you try to use it in the dark after too much drinkingFarking.
 
2014-03-17 12:21:35 PM  

serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.


USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the ting finalized in time for it to be adopted
 
2014-03-17 12:42:11 PM  
I'd say standardize/require inductive charging, but any sort of technology-specific laws are doomed to fail.
 
2014-03-17 12:44:02 PM  

the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted


Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason
 
2014-03-17 12:53:35 PM  

Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason


If Apple is on board it is because they want everyone to move to their proprietary design and then charge the competition royalties for it; as well as the competition having to pay the engineering costs incurred by a hardware change that Apple won't have to do.
 
2014-03-17 12:55:07 PM  

Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason


Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:

img.fark.net

www.technobuffalo.com

That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :

media.bestofmicro.com

It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?
 
2014-03-17 01:05:14 PM  

serial_crusher: European member states will have until 2016 to translate the regulation into national laws and manufacturers will then have 12 months to switch to the new design. The process of getting manufacturers to agree on a common design began in 2009.

And here's the downside of this sort of government action.

What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.
Is it going to be 2024 before a new and improved charger can actually be used?


You won't be improving a connection for re-charging very often.

For transferring data, sure, but that's not inherently part of the charging process.

The simplest way to get, and stay, universal would be to have two ports, one for charging, and one for data.

You meet requirements of the law no matter what, if you keep that micro USB(or whatever power they're using), and get to keep innovating or gouging people for a proprietary cable for transferring ringtones and files.
 
2014-03-17 01:14:27 PM  

omeganuepsilon: serial_crusher: European member states will have until 2016 to translate the regulation into national laws and manufacturers will then have 12 months to switch to the new design. The process of getting manufacturers to agree on a common design began in 2009.

And here's the downside of this sort of government action.

What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.
Is it going to be 2024 before a new and improved charger can actually be used?

You won't be improving a connection for re-charging very often.

For transferring data, sure, but that's not inherently part of the charging process.

The simplest way to get, and stay, universal would be to have two ports, one for charging, and one for data.

You meet requirements of the law no matter what, if you keep that micro USB(or whatever power they're using), and get to keep innovating or gouging people for a proprietary cable for transferring ringtones and files.


Yeah, but that's not really consumer-friendly.  Plugging in one connector is just easier.
Now, what you could do is put a microUSB and a proprietary data port side by side, then make a single plug that has both prongs sticking out.  Your average consumer isn't going to realize he can just plug a microUSB into the one side, so he's going to keep buying your Frankenstein connector.

Still sucks from the hardware manufacturers' side though.  2 connectors take up at least twice as much space as just one, and space inside a cell phone case is kind of at a premium.
 
2014-03-17 01:29:47 PM  

serial_crusher: You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.


It's part of the USB specification:
Plug it in once - doesn't fit
Reverse it, try again - doesn't fit
Reverse it back to original position - success
 
2014-03-17 01:34:49 PM  

MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:

[img.fark.net image 300x168]

[www.technobuffalo.com image 326x326]


Ah. Well, that's...not ideal, but I guess it works. FWIW, this was the main reason I bailed on Apple early on - locked into a connector, a software suite, and a format (I can't copy my own songs to my own device? Fark you with a side of beans, Apple) is no way to go through life.

That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :

[media.bestofmicro.com image 550x300]

It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?


I'm not a huge fan of USB3 using both the A and B connectors, but the USB2 connector still charges (and I believe will send data as well) to my Note 3, which has the full micro USB3 A/B connector. Backwards compatibility among USB standards, hopefully, will remain long past USB4 (there's precedent there - USB1, 1.1, and 2 are all compatible so long as the cables fit, right?)
 
2014-03-17 01:45:32 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Ah. Well, that's...not ideal, but I guess it works. FWIW, this was the main reason I bailed on Apple early on - locked into a connector, a software suite, and a format (I can't copy my own songs to my own device? Fark you with a side of beans, Apple) is no way to go through life.


I dislike the proprietary nature of the cable (and now the authentication chip built into lightning),  however, I do like that lightning (and the old 30 pin connector) are a bit more robust than USB connectors currently. Lightning in particular is already reversible, so far isn't prone to worn out or broken female ends, and doesn't require a USB host controller for audio or video signals.

I wish there was a good catch-all solution for chargers, but right now there isn't. That's why I'm leery of the EU mandating a standard. Newer better interfaces could be mired in bureaucracy and it makes vendors tied down to certain specifications even if they want to include better ones. As mentioned before, mobile devices have space as a premium and if several connectors are required for certain functions it means smaller batteries and less space for newer components.
 
2014-03-17 01:48:18 PM  
Wake me when they come up with a USB adapter that doesn't enter 4-D space.
blogs.synopsys.com
 
2014-03-17 01:51:34 PM  

Dr Dreidel: (there's precedent there - USB1, 1.1, and 2 are all compatible so long as the cables fit, right?)


I think so. USB 2 cables might be heavier gauge to carry higher voltage or something, but have the same number of wires, like the difference between CAT5 and CAT6 networking cables.
 
2014-03-17 01:55:28 PM  
Micro USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with Micro USB 2.0.  My phone has a US 3.0 connection but I can still charge it using a regular Micro USB 2.0.

IIRC most of the phone manufacturers standardized on USB connectors years ago.  Both because of consumer demand and because it was actually cheaper to manufacture (more profitable to make and sell) in the long run.  Using different connectors for data and charging would be more hassle for the manufacturers.
 
2014-03-17 01:59:09 PM  

omeganuepsilon: The simplest way to get, and stay, universal would be to have two ports, one for charging, and one for data.


I thank the great noodly appendages in the sky that you aren't designing connectors.
 
2014-03-17 01:59:34 PM  

zimbach: Dr Dreidel: (there's precedent there - USB1, 1.1, and 2 are all compatible so long as the cables fit, right?)

I think so. USB 2 cables might be heavier gauge to carry higher voltage or something, but have the same number of wires, like the difference between CAT5 and CAT6 networking cables.


I had to look this up. It looks like there are different wiring and pinout configurations based on the type of connector and standard.

USB 1/2.0 - 4 pins for standard, 5 for mini/micro
USB 3.0 - 9 pins standard, 11 for "powered-B"
 
2014-03-17 02:02:33 PM  

the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the ting finalized in time for it to be adopted


Based on the number of USB cables I have at home - in 4 years there will be three more USB "standards" to chose from.

/which is why this is completely silly - technology doesn't march to the governments timetables
 
2014-03-17 02:08:27 PM  

MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:





That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :



It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?


Then your roommates are morons, I have been using it for years and never had an issue.
 
2014-03-17 02:14:44 PM  

steamingpile: MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:

That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :

It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?

Then your roommates are morons, I have been using it for years and never had an issue.


Why do you have to be shiatty? This was actually a good discussion and you decided to be an asshole. It's not an uncommon complaint with micro USB connectors that the older points on the board come loose and render the female end inoperable.

Bully for you, you devices work fine. Others have problems with these connectors, and it's an annoying trait to deal with when it makes a device unable to charge.
 
2014-03-17 02:16:34 PM  

Dr Dreidel: MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:

[img.fark.net image 300x168]

[www.technobuffalo.com image 326x326]

Ah. Well, that's...not ideal, but I guess it works. FWIW, this was the main reason I bailed on Apple early on - locked into a connector, a software suite, and a format (I can't copy my own songs to my own device? Fark you with a side of beans, Apple) is no way to go through life.


If you can't figure out how to copy your own songs to your own device, that's on you, not the manufacturer.
 
2014-03-17 02:17:59 PM  

serial_crusher: Yeah, but that's not really consumer-friendly.  Plugging in one connector is just easier.


And you'd only need one, unless your battery dies at the same time as you're trying to transfer data.

My laptop, for example, the only plug it ever sees is for power.  That is the only thing a user is virtually guaranteed to use.(unless you're a spy/drugdealer/terrorist who's using phones once and then tossing them).

The intent is to have the phone be usable andchargeable anywhere with the hardware likely to be present.  That's much more "user friendly" important than having to use 2 cables for the minority that are going to be hooking it directly to their PC.  Not only do a lot of people never actually need to transfer data to their PC, but many phones are also wifi capable, and you can get ringtones through a service on the phone like most people do with apps.

As for space, straight power wouldn't take much.  You can accomplish a plug relying mostly on having a slot in the clam-shell encasement, the space used within the phone is minimal and there's always a tiny bit to spare.  Once they become used to the standard, it's as much a part of the phone as is the display and not a design challenge.

It may even be a design boon.  You could do the port near the circuits for charging and the battery, and not have to run across the board to the I/O port, or visa/versa.  You could shrink the I/O even further by not requiring it take power, so it's unobtrusive for the legions of people that will never use it.

You could further take advantage of the change to make more structurally sound ports, adding durability.
 
2014-03-17 02:20:23 PM  

MightyPez: steamingpile: MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:

That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :

It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?

Then your roommates are morons, I have been using it for years and never had an issue.

Why do you have to be shiatty? This was actually a good discussion and you decided to be an asshole. It's not an uncommon complaint with micro USB connectors that the solder points on the board come loose and render the female end inoperable.

Bully for you, you devices work fine. Others have problems with these connectors, and it's an annoying trait to deal with when it makes a device unable to charge.


"Come on man, your roommates don't know how to disassemble their phones and solder that tiny connector back on to the board?  What a bunch of idiots!
I don't even see what the big deal is.  If you don't like the microUSB connector, you can just remove it and solder a different one on there, amirite?"
 
2014-03-17 02:21:10 PM  

gingerjet: omeganuepsilon: The simplest way to get, and stay, universal would be to have two ports, one for charging, and one for data.

I thank the great noodly appendages in the sky that you aren't designing connectors.


Thanks for adding to the conversation instead of just waltzing in like a buffoon tossing insults.  It really stands testament to your fine public image as an honorable and upstanding citizen.
 
2014-03-17 02:23:08 PM  

serial_crusher: "Come on man, your roommates don't know how to disassemble their phones and solder that tiny connector back on to the board?  What a bunch of idiots!
I don't even see what the big deal is.  If you don't like the microUSB connector, you can just remove it and solder a different one on there, amirite?"


Thanks for the catch on the typo. My "S" key has been throwing a fit all day. Sigh... it will be added to the pile of spring cleaning chores.
 
2014-03-17 02:24:27 PM  

MightyPez: that the older points on the board come loose and render the female end inoperable


God, tell me about it.
 
2014-03-17 02:24:53 PM  

bingethinker: If you can't figure out how to copy your own songs to your own device, that's on you, not the manufacturer.


If you can figure out why I dumped Apple after the 90th time it told me a digital copy of Estimated Prophet I've been listening to since the second month I smoked pot for roughly a decade, you'll figure out why "copy THIS set of bits to THAT destination" shouldn't be hard enough to screw up.

Since I switched to non-Apple (this is the 3rd or 4th non-Apple device I've used), I have not once been told I could not copy my own music to my own devices (which, I think, is covered under fair use). Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.

// and for those upset about the fragility of the micro-USB connectors, I am with you
// they're only slightly worse than 3.5mm audio cables/jacks
 
2014-03-17 02:25:23 PM  

omeganuepsilon: serial_crusher: Yeah, but that's not really consumer-friendly.  Plugging in one connector is just easier.

And you'd only need one, unless your battery dies at the same time as you're trying to transfer data.

My laptop, for example, the only plug it ever sees is for power.  That is the only thing a user is virtually guaranteed to use.(unless you're a spy/drugdealer/terrorist who's using phones once and then tossing them).

The intent is to have the phone be usable andchargeable anywhere with the hardware likely to be present.  That's much more "user friendly" important than having to use 2 cables for the minority that are going to be hooking it directly to their PC.  Not only do a lot of people never actually need to transfer data to their PC, but many phones are also wifi capable, and you can get ringtones through a service on the phone like most people do with apps.

As for space, straight power wouldn't take much.  You can accomplish a plug relying mostly on having a slot in the clam-shell encasement, the space used within the phone is minimal and there's always a tiny bit to spare.  Once they become used to the standard, it's as much a part of the phone as is the display and not a design challenge.

It may even be a design boon.  You could do the port near the circuits for charging and the battery, and not have to run across the board to the I/O port, or visa/versa.  You could shrink the I/O even further by not requiring it take power, so it's unobtrusive for the legions of people that will never use it.

You could further take advantage of the change to make more structurally sound ports, adding durability.


All of those would be good points if microUSB wasn't the standard in question.
 
2014-03-17 02:33:21 PM  
MicroUSBs have an insane failure rate. Easily my most replaced cable at my store. It's also nearly 10 year old tech now. I'd be annoyed if that was the choice.

In a perfect world, it would be:

Strong enough to without support hold up a small device (a phone or hot spot) vertically
Not break off over 100,000 repeated removals
Be reversible
Transmit at USB 3 speeds with backwards compatibility
Be open so there's no licence fees to use it.
Allow manufacturers who have their own ports be able to adapt to it easily.
 
2014-03-17 02:34:42 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Since I switched to non-Apple (this is the 3rd or 4th non-Apple device I've used), I have not once been told I could not copy my own music to my own devices (which, I think, is covered under fair use). Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.


Apple hasn't had DRM on music for about 3 years now.
 
2014-03-17 02:43:23 PM  

saintstryfe: Dr Dreidel: Since I switched to non-Apple (this is the 3rd or 4th non-Apple device I've used), I have not once been told I could not copy my own music to my own devices (which, I think, is covered under fair use). Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.

Apple hasn't had DRM on music for about 3 years now.


Dr Dreidel: bingethinker: If you can't figure out how to copy your own songs to your own device, that's on you, not the manufacturer.

If you can figure out why I dumped Apple after the 90th time it told me a digital copy of Estimated Prophet I've been listening to since the second month I smoked pot for roughly a decade, you'll figure out why "copy THIS set of bits to THAT destination" shouldn't be hard enough to screw up.

Since I switched to non-Apple (this is the 3rd or 4th non-Apple device I've used), I have not once been told I could not copy my own music to my own devices (which, I think, is covered under fair use). Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.

// and for those upset about the fragility of the micro-USB connectors, I am with you
// they're only slightly worse than 3.5mm audio cables/jacks


DRM on iTunes was ended on April 7, 2009. So almost five years ago. Stop parroting antique propaganda.
 
2014-03-17 02:47:46 PM  

saintstryfe: Dr Dreidel: Since I switched to non-Apple (this is the 3rd or 4th non-Apple device I've used), I have not once been told I could not copy my own music to my own devices (which, I think, is covered under fair use). Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.

Apple hasn't had DRM on music for about 3 years now.


bingethinker: DRM on iTunes was ended on April 7, 2009. So almost five years ago. Stop parroting antique propaganda.


Apple's DRM is pants-on-face (or was, for far longer than I was willing to muddle along), this is not news.

// you have to read ALLLLL them little letters
// still no cure for closed formats (and yes, I know there are iTunes alternates; I'd rather not have to undo half of the OEM's work, and get a crapton of new software just to get my device "usable")
 
2014-03-17 02:54:59 PM  
Always complicating things

img.fark.neti.imgur.com
 
2014-03-17 03:04:08 PM  
Thank God the European Parliament has taken industry to task on this life-threatening issue.
 
2014-03-17 03:32:02 PM  

serial_crusher: All of those would be good points if microUSB wasn't the standard in question.


Speaking as an american, we don't yet have a standard.
 
2014-03-17 03:56:42 PM  

the_sidewinder: Didn't they already do this? And everyone but Apple then moved to USB Micro?


That's what I thought


Now if the EU would just pick a damn power delivery standard
 
2014-03-17 03:57:19 PM  

syrynxx: serial_crusher: You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

It's part of the USB specification:
Plug it in once - doesn't fit
Reverse it, try again - doesn't fit
Reverse it back to original position - success


dear god, this every f*cking time
 
2014-03-17 05:12:19 PM  

MightyPez: Dr Dreidel: the_sidewinder: serial_crusher: What if some advancement comes along within the next 4 years?  You know, maybe a reversible connector or something.

USB consortium is working on that now, so hopefully they have the thing finalized in time for it to be adopted

Also, the wording of the law, per TFA, doesn't necessarily preclude the industry changing whole-hog one day (micro USB today, nano-USB tomorrow), or using the same outside connector for USB 4, 5, 6, 7...

// and it looks like Apple's on board, for some reason

Largely because, if I'm reading other articles correctly, Apple is already compliant thanks to this:





That said, I can't stand micro USB. My roommates phone and a Verizon hotspot both had the internal female ends come loose or break off completely rendering them nearly worthless. The only way to charge the batteries on these devices was to but a separate charger, remove the batter, and charge it overnight.

Just for kicks: here is a comparison of Micro USB 2.0 and 3.0 adapters on the left :



It will be interesting to see if they adopt microusb 2.0 as the standard and phone manufacturers want to start using USB 3 or the reversible microusb standard that is being drafted right now. How quick will the EU's mandate update?


Your comparison chart is wrong. The connectors are just different connectors with 2 of them supporting full-duplex.
 
2014-03-17 05:17:32 PM  

Intrepid00: Your comparison chart is wrong. The connectors are just different connectors with 2 of them supporting full-duplex.


Every picture I have seen (and every time I have used) Micro USB 3.0 it is just as it is pictured. If there is a different Micro USB 3.0 plug it isn't showing up in Google
 
2014-03-17 05:32:31 PM  

gingerjet: omeganuepsilon: The simplest way to get, and stay, universal would be to have two ports, one for charging, and one for data.

I thank the great noodly appendages in the sky that you aren't designing connectors.


There's good reason to keep them separate: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/08/beware-of-juice-jacking/
Or maybe just get one of these: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/13/4726486/usbcondom-protects-charging - devices-from-hackers-juice-jacking
 
2014-03-17 05:59:20 PM  

Lamberts Ho Man: Or maybe just get one of these: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/13/4726486/usbcondom-protects-charging - devices-from-hackers-juice-jacking


This is better than buying a USB cable at DollarTree, stripping some insulation back and clipping the data/clock wires?

/They used to sell "Charge only" cables, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were data cables that were just so far out of spec to be worthless for anything but DC
 
2014-03-17 06:34:07 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Lamberts Ho Man: Or maybe just get one of these: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/13/4726486/usbcondom-protects-charging - devices-from-hackers-juice-jacking

This is better than buying a USB cable at DollarTree, stripping some insulation back and clipping the data/clock wires?

/They used to sell "Charge only" cables, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were data cables that were just so far out of spec to be worthless for anything but DC


Yea, I think it is.  You think the average consumer has the first clue or desire to go around clipping wires in their USB cables?  Or even knows that this is a potential attack vector?

I'm relatively proficient, but it would take me some research to figure out which wires I'd want to cut ... and that's assuming there is something standardized about the wire color inside the jacket that would indicate which wire to cut.  And now you've got a hacked up cable  that's fragile and looks like crap.
 
2014-03-17 07:25:21 PM  

Lamberts Ho Man: Vlad_the_Inaner: Lamberts Ho Man: Or maybe just get one of these: http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/13/4726486/usbcondom-protects-charging - devices-from-hackers-juice-jacking

This is better than buying a USB cable at DollarTree, stripping some insulation back and clipping the data/clock wires?

/They used to sell "Charge only" cables, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were data cables that were just so far out of spec to be worthless for anything but DC

Yea, I think it is.  You think the average consumer has the first clue or desire to go around clipping wires in their USB cables?  Or even knows that this is a potential attack vector?

I'm relatively proficient, but it would take me some research to figure out which wires I'd want to cut ... and that's assuming there is something standardized about the wire color inside the jacket that would indicate which wire to cut.  And now you've got a hacked up cable  that's fragile and looks like crap.


All these.

Also, I've seen many "charge only" usb cables.  Not even contacts for the data lines, only the DC power lines, on all of them.(copper can get expensive)
 
2014-03-17 07:31:14 PM  

bingethinker: If you can't figure out how to copy your own songs to your own device, that's on you, not the manufacturer.


I'm sure you don't get it, but he is talking about the ability to put songs and other media onto your device that are NOT in iTunes.  Your walled garden not only restricts the apps you can use(and what features those apps can have if they are to be approved), but also what media you can import on YOUR device.

The App store and iTunes are twin guardians of what you are allowed to do on your device.  Even if you are an advanced user, you have no choice around this except to jailbreak it - thus to piss on Apple's total control and loose your warranty.

Advanced Android users can simply change a setting and maintain full warranty.  Yes many people root the Android phones but it isn't necessary for as many things.  The only apps that require root in Android are those that subvert the Android security model to do stuff like access/modify another app's data(Titanium Backup for example), or alter the system directories (like people wanting to run custom ROMs).

The user experience is not so tightly controlled on Android.  You don't have Google telling you what you can and cannot do.  And yes you can simply copy any files to and from by simply plugging it in.  It will work exactly like a USB thumbdrive.  Plus there are multiple apps that will allow you to do exactly the same thing... wirelessly.

I don't believe Apple can match that.  Now I can find out for sure real quick to make sure I am not up-to-date with Apple.  I have a 4s (plugged into a speaker tower to be a backup alarm clock) with the latest firmware.  So I guess I could play around with it more to be sure.  But the iPhone has always been like a car that will only allow you to drive down authorized roads so I will likely never switch.
 
2014-03-18 04:33:11 PM  

germ78: Wake me when they come up with a USB adapter that doesn't enter 4-D space.
[blogs.synopsys.com image 500x488]


Ill be damned if this isnt true. I can't rationally explain it but this happens to me time and time again.

/sure maybe my selective memory forgets the times it goes in on a first or second time but ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE IS VALID DAMNNIT!
 
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