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(Time)   ADHD does not exist   (time.com) divider line 46
    More: Obvious, ADHD, iron deficiency, stimulants, DSM  
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20382 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 4:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-16 11:26:40 PM  
11 votes:
I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
2014-03-17 01:56:45 AM  
9 votes:
so drugs are being used to treat symptoms, rather than tests being done to determine if there is some sort of underlying condition and then treating that condition?

COLOR ME SHOCKED
Especially given the terrible health care in the US.


CSB
I had undiagnosed hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) for probably 10 years.
ooo depression? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep problems? lets put you on meds
ooo weight gain? well you are just lazy
ooo hypertension? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep apnea? lets put you on a machine or something

Even after being put on hormone replacement, the doctor was under dosing me, because they are TERRIFIED of going over. LOL

FFS, once I FINALLY was properly treated, oh LOOK, my sleep problems went away, my depression went away, my weight improved, my hypertension improved.

All at the cost of a generic pill and proper testing.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TL;DR - be in charge of your own medical health, because no one else is
/csb
2014-03-17 12:56:35 AM  
6 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them


Their parents?
2014-03-17 06:47:37 AM  
3 votes:
CSB: Undiagnosed ADHD my whole life. Teachers recommended it to my mom when I was a kid, but she wasn't into the mumbo-jumbo of the day. Flash forward to my late 30s and my neighbor ends up being a child psychologist who refers me to a colleague to get "tested". Long story short, taking the minimal dose of generic methylphenidate extended-release now and it has completely changed my life.

So these days when I'm having basic conversations with people my mind isn't busy matching up songs with every other word they say, while also constantly finishing their sentences and subbing words I think would have worked better. I was probably the biggest skeptic until this thing actually worked for me. Now I see a shrink every 6 months and he writes me massive scripts that last that long.

My work and home desks have gone from being plastered in tiny post-it notes to looking like a normal persons. I've learned to "manage" over the years, but goddamn do these pills make my day and life sooooo much easier. If I would have been on this stuff in school I probably would have been able to accomplish a lot more in life, or at least it wouldn't have been a constant and endless Secret Life of Walter Mitty struggle.
2014-03-17 04:55:19 AM  
3 votes:
Well, it does seem that every attention deficient kid can find endless amounts for something engaging like a videogame, which must be hyperactivity.

I was a horrible student who never did his homework and aced tests. It took until college to find homework interesting enough to do. I've played Half-Life games straight through. I don't touch WoW or other things like that because I know I'd lose months. I played Candy Crush to level 215, which I think is the last level because it's a total fark you.

I've done a six hour exam and finished early. I've done a twelve hour day in a VFR air traffic control tower. But I live in a sty because I can't focus on cleaning for an hour.
2014-03-17 04:47:15 AM  
3 votes:
Talk about a misleading and stupid headline. The doctor ACTUALLY said something like, "ADHD doesn't exist; it's being used as a catch-all and the reality is much more complicated." Basically, lamenting how absolutely terrible the options for mental health care are right now, thanks to the farking bluehairs that don't believe in any psychiatric conditions besides let's-throw-them-in-an-asylum-to-die-or-be-experimented-on-crazy.
2014-03-17 02:14:59 AM  
3 votes:
for anyone interested in the subject, check out a Louis Theroux doco called  America's Medicated Kids. here's a promo. and  another one. it used to be up on YouTube in full but now i can only find part 4/4. i'm sure if you hunt for it you could find it. well worth a watch.

i definitely think ADHD is a thing, but i doubt it's anywhere near as rampant and widespread as it seems to have become in recent years. i think there are a  lot of otherwise healthy kids out there having labels slapped on them and pills shoved down their throats as an alternative to responsible parenting.

it's gotta be easier and less guilt-inducing to say your kid has a disorder than to take responsibility for the impact of your own shiatty parenting on their behaviour.
2014-03-17 01:16:35 AM  
3 votes:
For those with ADHD, he doesn't say that the behaviors & symptoms don't exist, he says something something you're reading the next post now anyway so whatever.
2014-03-17 12:11:38 AM  
3 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


This person knows what's up.

/former overmedicated child
//occasional tutor of kids who really do need the pills
2014-03-16 10:54:45 PM  
3 votes:
Drugs to treat it certainly does exist.
2014-03-17 07:49:27 AM  
2 votes:
Really? You think that? Then go publish a proper paper full of proper research on the subject so it can be properly peer-reviewed by other people with the proper credentials.

Oh, wait. That's not going to sell your book like informal Time magazine write-ups and call-ins to "Rover's Morning Glory".

Scumbag.
2014-03-17 07:36:46 AM  
2 votes:
I blame editing.  No, seriously, watch a TV show from the 1950s or 1960s (except  H.R. Pufnstuf) and then watch one from the 1990s or 2000s, and compare the number of edits.  Watch a music video from the 1990s or later and count the number of times there is an edit.  The minds of young children are being conditioned to "information" being presented to them quickly and in smaller doses.  And when the get older their minds have a hard time hadling anything different.   That is my personal theory, based solely on beer.
2014-03-17 06:23:13 AM  
2 votes:
As we all know, science is determined by a single doctor making claims in a non-peer-reviewed venue. Oh, and that doctor reaches his conclusions based on anecdotal experiences. Yep, this guy's definitely the last word on ADHD...
2014-03-17 05:36:53 AM  
2 votes:
Back in my day...

[Kid]: I don't wanna do homework let's ride bikes no wait I want to watch TV let's gogeticecream--

Adult soundly and vigorously beats the kid until he can't sit down for a week without screaming.

[Kid, wiping tears away]: Know what? Think I'll finish that homework now.

Nowadays...

[Kid]: I wanna play XBox, no I'm bored Imma play Minecraft now I need to update my facebook I'm goingtogowatchTV--

[Adult]: Oh, poor Ashleigh. Here, mommy will write a note to your teacher telling her you simply can't do any homework. Sit right down and play this new video game I bought you and I'll go make you some gluten-free vegan snacks. And don't forget to take your happy pills.

Now get off my lawn!
2014-03-17 05:17:44 AM  
2 votes:
Dr. Richard Saul is a Behavioral Neurologist practicing in the Chicago area. His book,ADHD Does Not Exist, is published by HarperCollins


aaaaand I was right. It's just a book advertisement.
2014-03-17 02:36:19 AM  
2 votes:
But if you stop prescribing kids ADHD medications, where am I going to find cheap amphetamines?
2014-03-17 01:59:12 PM  
1 votes:

ksdanj: AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

THIS.

I was very skeptical about the prevalence of ADHD until I started working with elementary school aged children. I was raised old school and figure what these kids needed most was an ass whuppin'.

I'm sure that over medication of kids and young adults does happen but I've personally seen dozens of kids who have had their ability to concentrate AND LEARN aided by medication...


My (now adult) kid was diagnosed with ADHD in the early ninties before most people had ever heard of the disorder. It was generational, as both her father and grandmother had the same symptoms as children. Her grandmother in the forties couldn't sit still in school and was constantly being disciplined to no avail. That was before the Nazi occupation of her country, so when that happened, no one cared anymore and she was allowed to skip school and instead do things like walk up and down the train tracks looking for little pieces of coal to heat their house. Her dad had a hellish time in school and at home, too hyperactive to even sit down and eat let alone try to deal with school and on top of that he had dyslexia. All of that was undiagnosed, but the family was well aware of the issues. When our daughter started having trouble, this time, this generation, we did something about it. She was on dexedrine until she was in high school and began hyper caffeinating on her own. One cup of coffee makes her fall asleep, three or so helps her concentrate. When you can see that things that speed normal people up make these folks calm down, it's not hard to understand that its a wiring issue, especially when other things have been ruled out.

It exists, but a lot of other things mimic and need to be weeded out first. That's the problem.
2014-03-17 01:08:33 PM  
1 votes:
I don't think this guy is completely off his nut (for example, PTSD in children can have symptoms very similar to ADHD and could easily be mistaken for it) but he lost credibility with me as soon as he used the phrase "Big Pharma."

Anyone who uses that term instead of "pharmaceutical industry" is not to be taken seriously.
2014-03-17 12:48:02 PM  
1 votes:

namatad: so drugs are being used to treat symptoms, rather than tests being done to determine if there is some sort of underlying condition and then treating that condition?

COLOR ME SHOCKED
Especially given the terrible health care in the US.


CSB
I had undiagnosed hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) for probably 10 years.
ooo depression? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep problems? lets put you on meds
ooo weight gain? well you are just lazy
ooo hypertension? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep apnea? lets put you on a machine or something

Even after being put on hormone replacement, the doctor was under dosing me, because they are TERRIFIED of going over. LOL

FFS, once I FINALLY was properly treated, oh LOOK, my sleep problems went away, my depression went away, my weight improved, my hypertension improved.

All at the cost of a generic pill and proper testing.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TL;DR - be in charge of your own medical health, because no one else is
/csb


Good post and right on point. William Osler, the father of modern medicine said "listen to your patient, they are telling you the diagnoses". The implication being that listening and reasoning skills are the most important thing a Dr. could have. Hes rolling over in his grave if he could see the state of modern medicine.
2014-03-17 11:43:33 AM  
1 votes:
What we should do it make it mandatory to see a psychologist first before getting prescribed medications. Primary care doctors often only have 15-30 minutes and they can't diagnose a mental health problem accurately in that time especially since they aren't experts. Go to a psychologist, talk for an hour, get diagnosed correctly and be given treatment options other than medicine. Insurance should definitely cover all this since it would likely be cheaper in the long run for people to get accurately diagnosed and get the correct treatment instead of paying for drugs month after month that may not work.
2014-03-17 11:11:10 AM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: allylloyd: Yes there is ADHD and ADD and Autism, no one is denying that.

Except all the time. Did you even READ this thread?


Welcome to Fark.

Most people are totally farking wrong in their premises and assumptions, but that's OK, because no one reads what they write anyway.

Unless they're just here to get angried up.
2014-03-17 09:25:09 AM  
1 votes:
i62.tinypic.com
2014-03-17 09:21:43 AM  
1 votes:
static.fjcdn.com

/usually works
2014-03-17 09:19:47 AM  
1 votes:

Persnickety: sendtodave: Persnickety: I wonder how many ADHD kids grow up and get diagnosed with fibromyalgia.

Ha ha!  because they're just hypochondriacs!

I guess what they really need years of therapy to attempt function correctly in society as opposed to pills.  Even as kids.

Because they're not really sick, just crazy!

Because some kids legitimately have ADD, there are no hypochondriacs.  Got it.


Your initial post implied *all*  ADHD kids were hypochondriacs.

You are now pissed that someone has called you out on it, and are instead claiming something they, in fact, never said-

You're really bad at this, aren't you?
2014-03-17 08:50:42 AM  
1 votes:

Persnickety: I wonder how many ADHD kids grow up and get diagnosed with fibromyalgia.


I wonder how many people that feel ADHD's a sham think Alzheimer's patients are just old people that aren't trying hard enough to remember stuff.

Stupid farking lazy old people.
2014-03-17 08:16:26 AM  
1 votes:

allylloyd: Her kids don't need medicine they need 1) better parents and 2) an ass whooping!


Oh hey! It seems your mini-strokes/seizures have managed to stick your mind back in the 80s! Welcome to 2014! Spanking is not only frowned upon, it's also borderline illegal. Also, as a person who got plenty of spankings in the 70s and 80s (I broke a paddle with my ass in the 2nd grade, but that was mostly because my dad had drilled too many air holes in it to cut down on wind resistance), I know it's about as effective as throwing somebody in jail without a way to better yourself. It only tends to make sneaky behavior more sneaky.

Would ADHD meds have cut down on my parents frustration level with me as a child? Who's really to say, but surely it would have been worth a try seeing as how months of restriction and regular beatings spankings managed to only make me a smarter criminal.

/I have yet to spank my own kids
2014-03-17 07:53:05 AM  
1 votes:

Animatronik: Are there cases, especially with boys, where the drugs are a substitute for behavior modification that could achieve the same result? Should an improvement in school performance be seen as proof that the drug is appropriate therapy?


That's true of every drug that has ever existed. Some people endlessly take pain killers when they should be going to physical therapy instead. There are tons of people on cholesterol and blood pressure medications who wouldn't need it if they just exercised regularly and stopped eating so much crap. Same goes for people on diabetes treatments that could manage their disease with a proper diet but just don't.

ADHD drugs aren't magically immune to the problem of lazy people taking shortcuts with them, of course there are people who are using them as quick alternatives to a more "correct" and permanent solution.
2014-03-17 07:14:45 AM  
1 votes:
i59.tinypic.com
2014-03-17 06:10:13 AM  
1 votes:

Blink: I've taught 1000's of high school students -- and I can definitely say there's a few that exhibited some easily identifiable brain disorder.  If you tried to talk to them 1-on-1, you could actually see their minds wander to just about any and everything.  I've actually wondered if they possessed a mild form of Autism.

Having said that, about 98% of the students diagnosed with ADHD were just dis-tractable with minds that would mature normally if given time (or better parents).  I always felt like these were the most tragic cases.  Their brains were obviously underdeveloped, but the students were drugged into submission -- stunting the growth of their minds (or at least slowing is considerably).

The give-away is if the students _can_ focus on some things, but not school.  For example, I recall a parent telling me their child was ADHD so could not focus on math for more then 10 minutes, and then 30 seconds later telling me their child plays video games for 8-10 hours straight at home.  That's not a focusing issue -- that's a motivation issue.  To be blunt, it's bad parenting.

The weirdest outcome of the ADHD epidemic is how some people have decided that it's actually a gift.  They'll brag about how their ADHD minds are superior to "normal" people because they're better multi-taskers or some bizarre bullshiat.  It's complete an utter nonsense.  Look, if you have ADHD, you're mind is underdeveloped -- you're not the next incarnation of the x-men.


That "giveaway" is like one of major symptoms. Supposedly it's a coping mechanism for dopamine deficiency. It helps to override the constant brain chatter.
2014-03-17 06:00:13 AM  
1 votes:
Not only do I have ADHD. but I also have celiac disease. WebMD says so!
2014-03-17 05:31:40 AM  
1 votes:
"Kids are different today," I hear every mother say.
Junior needs something today to calm him down.
And though he's not really ill, there's a little yellow pill.
She goes running for the shelter
Of her mother's little helper,
And it helps her on her way.
Gets her through her busy day.
2014-03-17 05:15:55 AM  
1 votes:
I have the feeling the good doctor did not come to his conclusion based on the scientific method.
2014-03-17 05:11:39 AM  
1 votes:

wildcardjack: Well, it does seem that every attention deficient kid can find endless amounts for something engaging like a videogame, which must be hyperactivity.

I was a horrible student who never did his homework and aced tests. It took until college to find homework interesting enough to do. I've played Half-Life games straight through. I don't touch WoW or other things like that because I know I'd lose months. I played Candy Crush to level 215, which I think is the last level because it's a total fark you.

I've done a six hour exam and finished early. I've done a twelve hour day in a VFR air traffic control tower. But I live in a sty because I can't focus on cleaning for an hour.


"Hyperfocus," actually.
2014-03-17 05:10:17 AM  
1 votes:
Way back when, the principal of my school prescribed me Ritalin.  Okay, what she really did was tell my parents that if I didn't get put on Ritalin I would be kicked out of school.  Same farking thing.

It was wrong and I really didn't notice any effects either good or bad from taking that drug.

I was initially labeled as "hyperactive", but there does seem to be some attention deficit in there somewhere.  What's interesting is if I'm really interested i something I can give it my full attention, but a lot of other stuff I lose interest in about 15 seconds.

I even have trouble watching TV shows sometimes.  Sometimes I watch something for 2 minutes and hit pause and watch another 2 minutes before I'm bored again and have to hit pause again.

It's an affliction and it's not so simple as being distracted by a squirrel.    Some things really grab my attention and I can focus in on them, but a lot of other shiat.....well, my mind just tunes out.
2014-03-17 05:07:16 AM  
1 votes:
Well yeah it exists. That's why there's a word for it. If there's a word for it it exists. If it didn't exist there wouldn't be a word for it. Duh. Work it out brain guy. You think people are busy making words for things that don't exist? Then how would they be able to make a word for something which could not be described? "Hey come up for a word for this thing that isn't real." You can't. I tried it. You can't make a word that doesn't have meaning. That means it's just noise. That's the definition of the word word brain guy. Look it up. Words can't not mean something. So what you're saying brain guy is that the word ADHD isn't a word. It's not that what is defined by ADHD doesn't exist, it's that the very word ADHD doesn't exist. Are you prepared for this brain guy? Are you prepared to tell American this?
2014-03-17 05:01:11 AM  
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


THIS.

I was very skeptical about the prevalence of ADHD until I started working with elementary school aged children. I was raised old school and figure what these kids needed most was an ass whuppin'.

I'm sure that over medication of kids and young adults does happen but I've personally seen dozens of kids who have had their ability to concentrate AND LEARN aided by medication...
2014-03-17 04:59:39 AM  
1 votes:
The guy is biatching that the prescribed stimulants can cause "severe weight loss due to appetite suppression", the only problem I can see with that side effect is that the drugs are not being made available to more people, given we supposedly have an obesity epidemic.
2014-03-17 04:58:43 AM  
1 votes:

Generation_D: Why don't you farkers just self medicate like we all used to


Used to?
2014-03-17 01:09:43 AM  
1 votes:

SilentStrider: This thread will go well.


Focus, people!
2014-03-17 01:06:57 AM  
1 votes:

FishyFred: AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This person knows what's up.

/former overmedicated child
//occasional tutor of kids who really do need the pills


Whether a person actually has extreme behavioral issues or a person simply wants to improve behavioral traits, the means (ie the drugs) should be available to them without requirement.  But due to our drug hysteria in America we must make people justify the use with medical and government agencies.  Therefor ADHD diagnosis was created to facilitate the distribution.  Without ADHD drugs like Adderall would never make it out of laboratories.
2014-03-17 12:44:36 AM  
1 votes:
This thread will go well.
2014-03-16 11:08:04 PM  
1 votes:
I agree.
2014-03-16 10:56:14 PM  
1 votes:
I learned to hyper-caffeinate myself when I need to slow down and concentrate. I took Adderal for a little while, but stopped that shiat after I found myself doing lesson plans for 3-4 hours at a time, and not even realizing how much time had passed.
2014-03-16 10:51:39 PM  
1 votes:
tl;drb

(too long; didn't ride bikes)
2014-03-16 10:50:16 PM  
1 votes:
What were we talking about?
2014-03-16 10:48:01 PM  
1 votes:
Ok, that may be true, but there are few people I know first hand who are dazzled by shiny objects.
 
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