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(Time)   ADHD does not exist   (time.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, ADHD, iron deficiency, stimulants, DSM  
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20404 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 4:37 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-17 02:52:18 PM  

silvervial: ksdanj: AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

THIS.

I was very skeptical about the prevalence of ADHD until I started working with elementary school aged children. I was raised old school and figure what these kids needed most was an ass whuppin'.

I'm sure that over medication of kids and young adults does happen but I've personally seen dozens of kids who have had their ability to concentrate AND LEARN aided by medication...

My (now adult) kid was diagnosed with ADHD in the early ninties before most people had ever heard of the disorder. It was generational, as both her father and grandmother had the same symptoms as children. Her grandmother in the forties couldn't sit still in school and was constantly being disciplined to no avail. That was before the Nazi occupation of her country, so when that happened, no one cared anymore and she was allowed to skip school and instead do things like walk up and down the train tracks looking for little pieces of coal to heat their house. Her dad had a hellish time in school and at home, too hyperactive to even sit down and eat let alone try to deal with school and on top of that he had dyslexia. All of that was undiagnosed, but the family was well aware of the issues. When our daughter started having trouble, this time, this generation, we did something about it. Sh ...


THIS

Caffeine or any other stimulant (pseudoephedrine, etc) will help me concentrate and focus... to a point. After I go past a certain amount I start feeling like I've been tranquilized.

CSB: I have ADHD myself and a friend had given me some caffeinated soap. I was using the bathroom when my girls (4 and 5) snuck upstairs and used the caffeinated soap. They had that stuff lathered past their elbows and it took about 2 hours for them to come down from that. They were little blurs flying around the house. They slept incredibly well that night though. :D

I think part of the problem is that schools have limited numbers of teacher aides and they tend to focus on the children with medical problems. (I'm not blaming the schools... they have to work within their budget). Many parents will take the ADHD diagnosis knowing that, at the very least, their kid will get bumped up the list of "who gets helped" in their school.
 
2014-03-17 02:55:22 PM  

T.rex: Human children are not hard-wired to sit in a chair, listening to lectures for 6 hours a day... I'll go are far as to say, the day-dreamers are the normal ones.


So what you're saying is the teachers suck because they refuse to dedicate the time to help their charges learn?  Hell I knew that in the 1st grade.
 
2014-03-17 03:14:48 PM  

Frederick: Drugs to treat it certainly does exist.


I figured out how to cure it.  As in:  you take this pill, then when you stop taking it the problems don't come back.  This isn't as awesome as you think:  ADHD people have specific issues; when you cure their ADHD, the perception from their end is that HOLY shiat EVERYTHING IS SO EASY TO COMPREHEND!  The perception from everyone else is... minor.

The only ADHD people that get noticed are the annoying ones.  Their affront to authority is considered a disease, and they're branded autistic, and given drugs to manage it.  There are plenty of tolerable people who have trouble focusing, but don't get a diagnosis because they're not annoying second graders.  You can imagine how this also translates to over-diagnosis.

Curing the ADHD leaves a life of living like that as a behavioral template.  Whatever initial state they were in, whatever failure to pick up on social cues (Schizoid Personality Disorder), all of that drives the building of a personality.  When you cure those specific problems, you still have a lot of shiat written to the basal ganglia that you need to undo--and that is really farking hard.
 
2014-03-17 03:17:38 PM  

namegoeshere: Laobaojun: Enigmamf: Laobaojun: It was amazing how ADHD symptoms went away when my nieces and nephews went a day without soda, Kool-Aid, candy, etc.  Maybe people should try that.  Oh wait, that is effort, and refraining from knuckling under to every demand rfom the child.  Can't be having with that.

And the FDA has approved Red 40, can't possibly be that toxic muck, either.

Sugar causes drowsiness, not hyperactivity.

Damn, but you're an idiot.

And a shill for the pharmaceutical industry self-identifies.  White knight all you want, kid, they won't sleep with you.

/or the junk food industry.  Whatever.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/busting-sugar-hyperactivity- my th


Damn.  The shills are out in force today.  Who said anything about sugar?  The artificial colors and preservatives are enough to send anyone into a fit.

Hey, but if you couldn't maintain the train of thought long enough...
 
2014-03-17 03:30:54 PM  

Laobaojun: namegoeshere: Laobaojun: Enigmamf: Laobaojun: It was amazing how ADHD symptoms went away when my nieces and nephews went a day without soda, Kool-Aid, candy, etc.  Maybe people should try that.  Oh wait, that is effort, and refraining from knuckling under to every demand rfom the child.  Can't be having with that.

And the FDA has approved Red 40, can't possibly be that toxic muck, either.

Sugar causes drowsiness, not hyperactivity.

Damn, but you're an idiot.

And a shill for the pharmaceutical industry self-identifies.  White knight all you want, kid, they won't sleep with you.

/or the junk food industry.  Whatever.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/busting-sugar-hyperactivity- my th

Damn.  The shills are out in force today.  Who said anything about sugar?  The artificial colors and preservatives are enough to send anyone into a fit.

Hey, but if you couldn't maintain the train of thought long enough...


Yes, anyone who disagrees with someone whose idea of a coherent argument is " LOLS BIG RED PHARMA DYE NOT GOING TO F*CK YOU" is a shill. Sure they are.
 
2014-03-17 03:35:23 PM  
The "doctor" is question actually said that ADHD is actually an umbrella term for 20 different diseases. You know what that means? Different drugs for each one!
 
2014-03-17 04:13:18 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: vharshyde: Oh look, a PHD in "Being an Asshole"

Wait, is that a thing? Can you get an honorary degree in that?


Yes, right here at the University of Fark.
 
2014-03-17 04:21:13 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: flondrix: Felgraf: Hey, how is PTSD often diagnosed?

It's probably farking fake too.

That's what the army has been saying.  Because if someone is discharged for a thing that happened to them while in the service, in might cost the army money make them change their training methods, which are PERFECT, and that will KILL more of our boys in the next war.


I don't think that PTSD necessarily reflects a failure in training any more than getting an arm or a leg blown off does.  War is hell, and people come back broken.  In the case of PTSD, perhaps we could reduce the occurance by limiting the number of times they are deployed before transferring them to something else (like training the new guys) or discharging them early.
 
2014-03-17 04:22:33 PM  

AgentKGB: silvervial: ksdanj: AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

THIS.

I was very skeptical about the prevalence of ADHD until I started working with elementary school aged children. I was raised old school and figure what these kids needed most was an ass whuppin'.

I'm sure that over medication of kids and young adults does happen but I've personally seen dozens of kids who have had their ability to concentrate AND LEARN aided by medication...

My (now adult) kid was diagnosed with ADHD in the early ninties before most people had ever heard of the disorder. It was generational, as both her father and grandmother had the same symptoms as children. Her grandmother in the forties couldn't sit still in school and was constantly being disciplined to no avail. That was before the Nazi occupation of her country, so when that happened, no one cared anymore and she was allowed to skip school and instead do things like walk up and down the train tracks looking for little pieces of coal to heat their house. Her dad had a hellish time in school and at home, too hyperactive to even sit down and eat let alone try to deal with school and on top of that he had dyslexia. All of that was undiagnosed, but the family was well aware of the issues. When our daughter started having trouble, this time, this generation, we did something ...


There is also a dark side to the IEP in schools, basically the school will get extra money per head for every "disabled" student, regardless of what the disability actually is*.

Hence you get situations where teachers and admins "encourage" parents to get hyperactive Timmy medicated: school gets extra cash without much output, teacher gets a quiet kid, and Timmy's parents know their kid gets an edge against other students thanks to time and a half on all tests.

Moreover, labeling a kid with ADHD gets him medicaid and SSI disability, so there's a bunch of parents who rely on their kid "cutting a check" to survive.

/*Your school district might be different and there are grants flouting around for specific disabilities, it's a bit more complex than I've laid out
//Granted, if you have a severe non-easy cookie-cutter problem you can get farked by the system (RE my brother)
 
2014-03-17 04:44:22 PM  
i.imgur.com
Soon.
 
2014-03-17 05:53:04 PM  

JoelWhy: aharown:
First of all, the fact that there are serious problems in the peer-review process does not make anecdotal accounts a better means of reaching scientific conclusions.



I called it more dangerous, because at least anecdata is obviously anecdata, it obviously has a bias.  Peer reviewed journals pretend like Fox News pretends...and can therefore be far more dangerous when wrong.
 
2014-03-17 07:00:49 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.


The problem is that these problems are likely the result of various "real" conditions that are going undiagnosed because the doctors are just taking the easy way out and labeling the symptoms "ADHD" and tossing pills at people. That's sort of the crux of the article.
 
2014-03-17 07:02:10 PM  

Parthenogenetic: So, according to a legion of Fark medical experts, over-diagnosed and over-medicated = it doesn't exist. At all. All righty then.


And, you know...the doctor who wrote the f*cking article. Try reading it...the rest of your post misses the point.
 
2014-03-18 12:10:02 AM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: AverageAmericanGuy: But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

The problem is that these problems are likely the result of various "real" conditions that are going undiagnosed because the doctors are just taking the easy way out and labeling the symptoms "ADHD" and tossing pills at people. That's sort of the crux of the article.


My goodness. After all this time thinking adhd was the only reason why I can only read a novel is by having 10 different spots to sit or stand, it turns out I'm just a hyperactive bastard who's wrecked an average of one time per car due to not having enough attention span to pay attention sometimes.  

Oddly enough, in my toyota 2009 corolla, I've only wrecked on black ice last year. So I'm improving.  That time it was the lady in front who wasn't paying attention.  With a crap ton of events around me preventing me from slowing to a stop effectively or getting out of the lane to avoid hitting her car.

My upcoming roadtrips should be interesting... I wonder where my imagination will randomly lead me for a few seconds when my mind wanders.
 
2014-03-18 08:06:11 AM  

Stoj: For those with ADHD, he doesn't say that the behaviors & symptoms don't exist, he says something something you're reading the next post now anyway so whatever.


It has been my experience that if someone was capable of reading the article, they really don't have ADHD.
 
2014-03-18 09:33:44 AM  

shortymac: There is also a dark side to the IEP in schools, basically the school will get extra money per head for every "disabled" student, regardless of what the disability actually is*.

Hence you get situations where teachers and admins "encourage" parents to get hyperactive Timmy medicated: school gets extra cash without much output, teacher gets a quiet kid, and Timmy's parents know their kid gets an edge against other students thanks to time and a half on all tests.

Moreover, labeling a kid with ADHD gets him medicaid and SSI disability, so there's a bunch of parents who rely on their kid "cutting a check" to survive.

/*Your school district might be different and there are grants flouting around for specific disabilities, it's a bit more complex than I've laid out
//Granted, if you have a severe non-easy cookie-cutter problem you can get farked by the system (RE my brother)


That is also true. I went to a K-12 school in a small town and they didn't have the budget for a teacher's aide... until one of the kindergarteners had learning disabilities. Once the school had a student with medically verified learning disabilities they got enough added to the budget to get a teacher's aide who followed him up the grades as he went.
 
2014-03-18 10:10:10 AM  

AgentKGB: shortymac: There is also a dark side to the IEP in schools, basically the school will get extra money per head for every "disabled" student, regardless of what the disability actually is*.

Hence you get situations where teachers and admins "encourage" parents to get hyperactive Timmy medicated: school gets extra cash without much output, teacher gets a quiet kid, and Timmy's parents know their kid gets an edge against other students thanks to time and a half on all tests.

Moreover, labeling a kid with ADHD gets him medicaid and SSI disability, so there's a bunch of parents who rely on their kid "cutting a check" to survive.

/*Your school district might be different and there are grants flouting around for specific disabilities, it's a bit more complex than I've laid out
//Granted, if you have a severe non-easy cookie-cutter problem you can get farked by the system (RE my brother)

That is also true. I went to a K-12 school in a small town and they didn't have the budget for a teacher's aide... until one of the kindergarteners had learning disabilities. Once the school had a student with medically verified learning disabilities they got enough added to the budget to get a teacher's aide who followed him up the grades as he went.


It is important to note, however, that it is the diagnosis, not the prescription, that gets the services. Any and all medication discussions should be between a parent and the child's doctor ONLY. Unless they have an MD after their name, no school employee is in any way qualified to discuss prescription medication with a parent.

Okay: "These are the behaviors that I am seeing which are concerning. I suggest talking with your doctor about the possibility of an attention disorder."

NOT OKAY: "Your child probably has ADHD and should be on medication."

Educators are not qualified to diagnose or otherwise practice medicine and need to stop trying to do so.
 
2014-03-18 04:00:27 PM  

namegoeshere: AgentKGB: shortymac: There is also a dark side to the IEP in schools, basically the school will get extra money per head for every "disabled" student, regardless of what the disability actually is*.

Hence you get situations where teachers and admins "encourage" parents to get hyperactive Timmy medicated: school gets extra cash without much output, teacher gets a quiet kid, and Timmy's parents know their kid gets an edge against other students thanks to time and a half on all tests.

Moreover, labeling a kid with ADHD gets him medicaid and SSI disability, so there's a bunch of parents who rely on their kid "cutting a check" to survive.

/*Your school district might be different and there are grants flouting around for specific disabilities, it's a bit more complex than I've laid out
//Granted, if you have a severe non-easy cookie-cutter problem you can get farked by the system (RE my brother)

That is also true. I went to a K-12 school in a small town and they didn't have the budget for a teacher's aide... until one of the kindergarteners had learning disabilities. Once the school had a student with medically verified learning disabilities they got enough added to the budget to get a teacher's aide who followed him up the grades as he went.

It is important to note, however, that it is the diagnosis, not the prescription, that gets the services. Any and all medication discussions should be between a parent and the child's doctor ONLY. Unless they have an MD after their name, no school employee is in any way qualified to discuss prescription medication with a parent.

Okay: "These are the behaviors that I am seeing which are concerning. I suggest talking with your doctor about the possibility of an attention disorder."

NOT OKAY: "Your child probably has ADHD and should be on medication."

Educators are not qualified to diagnose or otherwise practice medicine and need to stop trying to do so.


I've been through the IEP system with my brother's disabilities, it's saddening what school admins try to pull to reduce the cost of Special Needs students (while still collecting that sweet government money). Pre-internet it was a lot easier and thankfully my Dad was a doctor so we had a lot of knowledge, my Dad used to go into not introduce himself as "Dr. LastName" in the beginning to catch their bullshiat and throw them off their game.

Hell, my Parents had to go to court with our local school district because they wanted to send my Autistic brother to the ESL class (the school had merged them) instead of a special ed class in another school. WTF! 5 years of court battles over that one and we had pay out of pocket to send my brother to a private school 1.5 hours away because they refused to co-operate with us.

Thank god we had a stay-at-home parent, I don't know how the average family would cope with that situation today.

/I really should write a book about this experience
//I think my parents signed a non-disclosure though
 
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