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(Time)   ADHD does not exist   (time.com) divider line 218
    More: Obvious, ADHD, iron deficiency, stimulants, DSM  
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20390 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Mar 2014 at 4:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-17 09:36:46 AM  
Neither does Ass Burgers. The people who claim Ass Burgers are just Ass Holes.
 
2014-03-17 09:37:31 AM  
Aww now how are those precious snowflakes going to get disability payments for their psychological disorders?
 
2014-03-17 09:42:02 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Aww now how are those precious snowflakes going to get disability payments for their psychological disorders?


Maybe the 20 or so underlying conditions that the doctor in the article is claiming as the cause?
 
2014-03-17 09:43:24 AM  
My ex's 5 year old boy was a strong candidate for ADHD. He had the attention span of a 2 year old and ate like several grown men. I knew the kid was really, really hyper, but how do you measure hyper? Remember every kid that get's evaluated for ADHD has parents bringing him in saying the kid is hyper. I finally cracked it when I realized that the kid ate more than me while being a typical skinny kid.

I kept food logs of everything the kid ate for a week straight. I totaled the calories of everything for each and every day. This kid, this skinny kid was eating in excess of 5-6000 calories a day when he was 5 years old. In other words this kid was so active that he was burning that many calories every single day. I gave the food logs to the specialist doctors at the Children's Hospital he was brought too. They asked if that was what he ate last week. I explained that was what he ate yesterday. I then showed them the log for the day before that, and so on.

Luckily we were able to avoid ritalin which is horrible and get him on another medication. ADHD is certainly real, and if a kid has it you can measure it and get a fair idea. Don't let it be an excuse to be a bad parent and let the kid get away with bad behavior. Don't turn away from the kid either thinking that they can't control their behavior and are beyond salvage. The medication should never take the place of parenting, just give them lots of extra attention and they can turn out just fine.
 
2014-03-17 09:48:57 AM  
Who has time to go through a series of tests and treatment for other underlying conditions when someone is ready to sell me a bottle of pills right now?
 
2014-03-17 09:59:41 AM  
I worry that a generation of Americans won't be able to concentrate without this medication; big pharma is understandably not as concerned.

 www.tasteofcinema.com

Remember to take your pills, citizen.
 
2014-03-17 10:05:04 AM  

Mouser: I worry that a generation of Americans won't be able to concentrate without this medication; big pharma is understandably not as concerned.


I'm assuming that previous generations weren't able to concentrate without medication, either, but they lived in in times where they could get away with that.

These days, you need to be able to sit down, stare at a screen and not move for hours, while not losing your concentration, to be a productive member of society.

Or, you can just say that you're "good at multitasking" like most people who should be medicated say.
 
2014-03-17 10:10:25 AM  
What's that subby? Vaccinations cause Autism too?
 
2014-03-17 10:15:14 AM  

Foxxinnia: Words can't not mean something.


What about "meaningless"?
 
2014-03-17 10:28:38 AM  

fredmcmurray: Foxxinnia: Words can't not mean something.

What about "meaningless"?


Meaningless means something.  It means a word that doesn't mean som... OH SHI--

/0
 
2014-03-17 10:46:38 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


I don't often agree with you, but:

This.

My son is profoundly ADHD and without medication he would be pretty much unable to function. So many people are such pricks about it, thinking that we're just medicating our kid, when we spent literally years trying to find a way to help him without medication- we didn't want to have him on stimulants. But in the end, it has helped. And while it's not perfect, it's so much better than it was.

The thing is, that these kids with these disorders have to function in our society someday. Medication isn't going to fix them, but it can  help them find ways to cope. And as they grow up they typically don't have to be on the medication as much or even at all.

I'm tired of ignorant assholes telling me that my son's behavior is just normal for kids. No, you stupid sack of shiat, it's not. Regardless of the cause, it's a problem, and your half-informed invective about parenting when you have kids without such troubles are just annoying.
 
2014-03-17 10:51:47 AM  

Cyclometh: Regardless of the cause, it's a problem, and your half-informed invective about parenting when you have kids without such troubles are just annoying.


The fact that their kids don't have these problems is proof that you are a bad parent.

Alcoholism is a disease that you get yelled at for having.

ADHD is a disease that you get yelled at for your kids having.
 
2014-03-17 10:52:16 AM  

Felgraf: I *DO* Suspect that ADHD, as we call it, is actually a spectrum of *different causes* that create simillar symptoms, and we really need to get at the root of figuring out what's actually going on so we can better help people.

This would explain why it seems to 'manifest' differently in different people. For instance, the best way I can describe my ADHD is not "Lol bored can't pay attention gonna daydream." It's not tuning out imporant things, it's the opposite. I *cannot* easily tune out external stimuli. Whatsoever. Which DOES give me the benefit of being a lot more aware of my environment, of being very good at finding lost objects, and a number of skills that would be of use in, say, a hunter-gatherer society.

This is not terribly useful in a typical classroom environment. Or, say, on a bus. (Pick out a conversation I'd rather not hear? TOO BAD CAN'T STOP HEARING IT. At a big party surrounded by white noise and thousands of conversation? BRAIN STARTS FREAKING OUT, TOO MUCH STIMULUS)

Thankfully, it does seem to be somewhat useful in a research environment...

(Which is why I think the variant I have may stem from genetic factors: After I got diagnosed*, we eventually came to realize that my mother, and the *entire side of my mother's family*, were ADHD.)Prank

*(a diagnosis which involved a battery of tests and then a *multi week* double-blind trial where I would take a pill from a labeled bottle each day, and then my parents, teachers, and myself would fill out a survery on how I did. After about three weeks, they went back, looked at the days I did best and worst etc etc, and mapped them to which days I got varying doses of ritalin, and which days I got sugar pills)


Call of Cthulhu: [i59.tinypic.com image 519x699]

A) Ritalin is a stimulant. It's not farking thorazine.

B) While I agree a number of parents overmedicate, a lot try to medicate as a last resort. We basically tried an insane host of coping strategies (a number of which DO help me as an adult.)


You may want to look into Central Auditory Processing Disorder, my brother has it (along with Autism and a whole host of other issues).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_processing_disorder

I've often wondered that a lot of people with "ADHD: inattentive, non-hyper" is actually CAPD.

Invest in good sound-cancelling headphones that drown out all other noise, buy an iPod or use your smartphone to pipe in calming music, a podcast, or an audiobook. It really helps.
 
2014-03-17 10:56:14 AM  

aharown: Some research indicates that 60% or more of published journal articles contain some form of falsified or fraudulent data or analysis, and that this is higher in psychological and biological sciences.


That's a pretty outrageous claim.

aharown: JoelWhy: As we all know, science is determined by a single doctor making claims in a non-peer-reviewed venue. Oh, and that doctor reaches his conclusions based on anecdotal experiences. Yep, this guy's definitely the last word on ADHD...


Search "peer reviewed falsified data" in google scholar and you'll find significant of evidence that peer reviewed venues are a lot more dangerous than arguing from admitted anecdata.  Some research indicates that 60% or more of published journal articles contain some form of falsified or fraudulent data or analysis, and that this is higher in psychological and biological sciences.

One example you can do yourself is to just find 100 journal articles and plot the reported p values of their statistics.  You'll find a strange and noteworthy bump over expected value of p values just UNDER .05 (or .10, depending on the field and the standard used).  Meaning when a result is statistically significant, it is more likely than it should be that it JUST MANAGES to get under the bar.  People are fudging data to get this result.

There are more sophisticated measures of finding falsification and other fraudulence.  To say nothing of publication biases, funding biases, or anonymous survey data which indicates significant known fraudulence.

Point is, be careful what "peer reviewed venues" you trust.  Really, don't trust any.  If you haven't read the paper and examined the argumentation AND the reported results far more carefully than is generally done, the odds aren't good that it's reliable.


First of all, the fact that there are serious problems in the peer-review process does not make anecdotal accounts a better means of reaching scientific conclusions.

Secondly, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that "60% or more of published journal articles contain some form of falsified or fraudulent data or analysis." Citation needed, please.

Finally, the scientist who wrote this article is acting completely irresponsibly. There is ample evidence to support the conclusion that ADHD exists. As with much of psychiatry, the symptoms are difficult to nail down, and you're dealing with a spectrum disorder. There's clearly a great deal of over-diagnosis (especially since so many of these diagnosis are made by physicians with insufficient training in this field.) But, to claim the illness doesn't exist based on...well, based on virtually nothing; I'm sorry to see the media pick up on the story.
 
2014-03-17 10:57:14 AM  
Oh look, a PHD in "Being an Asshole" who got his degree from a diploma mill who's trying to drum up controversy so he can sell a book...
 
2014-03-17 11:02:47 AM  
It exists for me. 

Tip, I'm not going to say what I look like. Because I'm not as good a driver as people think. Driving several hours is excessively boring even with music. Unless I've got a full blown sci-fi story going on in my imagination.
 
2014-03-17 11:07:06 AM  

vharshyde: Oh look, a PHD in "Being an Asshole"


Wait, is that a thing? Can you get an honorary degree in that?
 
2014-03-17 11:07:35 AM  

cwolf20: It exists for me. 

Tip, I'm not going to say what I look like. Because I'm not as good a driver as people think. Driving several hours is excessively boring even with music. Unless I've got a full blown sci-fi story going on in my imagination.


I enjoy my drive to work, because even though it's an hour each way, it takes no time at all.

I never even remember it!
 
2014-03-17 11:08:08 AM  

allylloyd: Yes there is ADHD and ADD and Autism, no one is denying that.


Except all the time. Did you even READ this thread?
 
2014-03-17 11:11:10 AM  

Cyclometh: allylloyd: Yes there is ADHD and ADD and Autism, no one is denying that.

Except all the time. Did you even READ this thread?


Welcome to Fark.

Most people are totally farking wrong in their premises and assumptions, but that's OK, because no one reads what they write anyway.

Unless they're just here to get angried up.
 
2014-03-17 11:40:12 AM  
 
2014-03-17 11:42:37 AM  
I always thought attention deficit leads to hypo activity.
 
2014-03-17 11:43:33 AM  
What we should do it make it mandatory to see a psychologist first before getting prescribed medications. Primary care doctors often only have 15-30 minutes and they can't diagnose a mental health problem accurately in that time especially since they aren't experts. Go to a psychologist, talk for an hour, get diagnosed correctly and be given treatment options other than medicine. Insurance should definitely cover all this since it would likely be cheaper in the long run for people to get accurately diagnosed and get the correct treatment instead of paying for drugs month after month that may not work.
 
2014-03-17 11:55:39 AM  

phenn: When my son was in 4th grade, his dad and I were called in for a conference with his teacher. She told us that he was suffering from ADHD (didn't realize she was a doctor) and that his behaviors were holding him and her class back. My son was an A & B student, so I was flabbergasted.

She explained that this 'behavior' of his was him being 'chatty' in class.

Chatty.

She then went on to insist that we see a doctor about a prescription for him. As you can imagine, his father and I were stunned. Naturally, we refused to comply and asked that our son be put in someone else's class. When we got home, he got the talking to, the stink-eye and grounded for a week because of his distracting behavior in class. Wasn't a problem after that.

Do these conditions exist? I won't even argue that. Believe what you wish. But, there is no denying that the drugs to deal with said conditions are overprescribed like mad.

I almost think it's laziness on the part of adults. These are very serious medications and probably shouldn't be tossed out there like beads at a parade.


We had a similar teacher conference, except instead of chatty, ours was distracted. The teacher insisted that I was (in barely nicer words) a bad mother who was denying my child the ability to reach her full academic potential by refusing to medicate. I told her, "Tell you what. Before I medicate her, I'm going to come to school with her. Every day. I'm going to sit right next to her, and you bet your ass she'll pay attention then." The teacher mumbled something about not recommending that, but she dropped the medication crap pretty quick.

Then I went home and said the same thing to my kid, except not mentioning meds and instead starting with "If you don't start paying attention in class, or at least faking it better..."

Turns out she does have ADHD, doctor diagnosed and everything. She is not medicated. She's learned coping skills to manage it and succeed academically despite it. She's fighting for the top spot in her class, so she's doing something right.

Some (a FEW) children do need to be medicated. But that should happen when and only when you've tried everything else and the child is still in distress. (The CHILD, not the n00b teacher with poor classroom management skills) If you get the diagnosis and the scrip in the same office visit, you're doing it wrong.
 
2014-03-17 12:02:17 PM  

stoli n coke: sendtodave: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Back in my day...

[Kid]: I don't wanna do homework let's ride bikes no wait I want to watch TV let's gogeticecream--

Adult soundly and vigorously beats the kid until he can't sit down for a week without screaming.

[Kid, wiping tears away]: Know what? Think I'll finish that homework now.

Nowadays...

[Kid]: I wanna play XBox, no I'm bored Imma play Minecraft now I need to update my facebook I'm goingtogowatchTV--

[Adult]: Oh, poor Ashleigh. Here, mommy will write a note to your teacher telling her you simply can't do any homework. Sit right down and play this new video game I bought you and I'll go make you some gluten-free vegan snacks. And don't forget to take your happy pills.

Now get off my lawn!

Yeah, back in the day, we'd just blame the kids for being lazy.  It's much better to blame people for their illnesses.  Like with "alcoholism."

Stupid drunks.  Stupid lazy kids.  They all just need to be scared straight through trauma.


Yet amazingly, this "epidemic" didn't rear it's ugly head until the late 80s- early 90s, when drug companies needed to push their Flinstones Chewable Crank.

For every 1 child that actually needs ritalin, there are at least 30 who don't and are prescribed it anyway because parents have given up on being parents and are looking for a magic pill solution.


I was diagnosed with ADD as a child. Easily bored, easily distracted once bored, etc. But I could sit down with the World Book Encyclopedia and read it and never notice the time.The stimulus of learning something new was enough to overcome my focus issues. My folks bought into the Ritalin thing. I hated it. It was like living in my head, but being caged away from the controls. I could sometimes squeeze an arm through the bars and fiddle at the levers, but as nothing more. As soon as I put 2 & 2 together I stopped taking it (but led my folks on for a while to make sure I could control it with other methods).

I learned other coping mechanisms. Learning new things is still my favorite, but at work or while maintaining the household it's really not ideal. So I set small goals, work to them. I say "This square foot will be clean." I clean it. Oftentimes, once I'm in the 'work' mindset I'll go on to clean additional square feet. Sometimes I won't. But I've cleaned the small task I've assigned myself, and now I can assign myself another small task, perhaps 'make sure all the hinges in the house are oiled" or "replace the air filter", and come back to a cleaning task later.

Do I have ADD? Yes. Do the drugs work for me? No. Do they work for my son? Yes, but he doesn't use Ritalin, he uses another. (I sat down with him before he started meds, and described my problems, and how I felt on the meds. I asked him to be completely honest with me when he tried them and tell me if he felt uncomfortable or anything while on them. So far? Success.)

I've been tempted to ask my doctor to diagnose and see if his meds would help me, but I think I'm doing okay with my methods now. Do I have weekends where I don't know where the time went, and the house is still a wreck? Yes. Do I worry about it anymore? No.
 
2014-03-17 12:07:53 PM  

Grandiloquent Grapefruit: What we should do it make it mandatory to see a psychologist first before getting prescribed medications. Primary care doctors often only have 15-30 minutes and they can't diagnose a mental health problem accurately in that time especially since they aren't experts. Go to a psychologist, talk for an hour, get diagnosed correctly and be given treatment options other than medicine. Insurance should definitely cover all this since it would likely be cheaper in the long run for people to get accurately diagnosed and get the correct treatment instead of paying for drugs month after month that may not work.


This, so much this.  Psychiatrists spend 15 minutes at most on a patient and then prescribe these drugs.   Medical doctors have pretty much zero business diagnosing and prescribing things.   A psychologist, however, can do a proper screen, they are the only people with enough specific training to actually diagnose mental health issues.  Sadly, because they spent all that time actually learning about the mind, they didn't get the education necessary to prescribe.   I think Psychiatry should be dissolved into some kind of PA/NP program designed to work symbiotically with Psychologists.  The current system is very broken.
 
2014-03-17 12:08:27 PM  
I believe that the reason why so many kids (and now adults) are so farking amped up is because of the total overload of stimulants in our culture. Think about it. Caffiene, sugar, video games, TV, movies, music,  artificial light. Huge amounts of all of that coming at all of us all the time. Biologically, we can't handle that. It's pretty glaringly obvious the combination of those things are the cause when you compare levels of ADHD in North America to levels in less developed countries.
 
2014-03-17 12:09:01 PM  
"Medical doctors have pretty much zero business diagnosing and prescribing things."

I meant mental health disorders.  They are absolutely the right person to do normal diagnosing and prescribing.   Just not for mental health.
 
2014-03-17 12:09:28 PM  

Enigmamf: Laobaojun: It was amazing how ADHD symptoms went away when my nieces and nephews went a day without soda, Kool-Aid, candy, etc.  Maybe people should try that.  Oh wait, that is effort, and refraining from knuckling under to every demand rfom the child.  Can't be having with that.

And the FDA has approved Red 40, can't possibly be that toxic muck, either.

Sugar causes drowsiness, not hyperactivity.

Damn, but you're an idiot.


And a shill for the pharmaceutical industry self-identifies.  White knight all you want, kid, they won't sleep with you.

/or the junk food industry.  Whatever.
 
2014-03-17 12:31:48 PM  

Laobaojun: Enigmamf: Laobaojun: It was amazing how ADHD symptoms went away when my nieces and nephews went a day without soda, Kool-Aid, candy, etc.  Maybe people should try that.  Oh wait, that is effort, and refraining from knuckling under to every demand rfom the child.  Can't be having with that.

And the FDA has approved Red 40, can't possibly be that toxic muck, either.

Sugar causes drowsiness, not hyperactivity.

Damn, but you're an idiot.

And a shill for the pharmaceutical industry self-identifies.  White knight all you want, kid, they won't sleep with you.

/or the junk food industry.  Whatever.


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52516

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/busting-sugar-hyperactivity- my th
 
2014-03-17 12:48:02 PM  

namatad: so drugs are being used to treat symptoms, rather than tests being done to determine if there is some sort of underlying condition and then treating that condition?

COLOR ME SHOCKED
Especially given the terrible health care in the US.


CSB
I had undiagnosed hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) for probably 10 years.
ooo depression? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep problems? lets put you on meds
ooo weight gain? well you are just lazy
ooo hypertension? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep apnea? lets put you on a machine or something

Even after being put on hormone replacement, the doctor was under dosing me, because they are TERRIFIED of going over. LOL

FFS, once I FINALLY was properly treated, oh LOOK, my sleep problems went away, my depression went away, my weight improved, my hypertension improved.

All at the cost of a generic pill and proper testing.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TL;DR - be in charge of your own medical health, because no one else is
/csb


Good post and right on point. William Osler, the father of modern medicine said "listen to your patient, they are telling you the diagnoses". The implication being that listening and reasoning skills are the most important thing a Dr. could have. Hes rolling over in his grave if he could see the state of modern medicine.
 
2014-03-17 12:58:28 PM  

skozlaw: Really? You think that? Then go publish a proper paper full of proper research on the subject so it can be properly peer-reviewed by other people with the proper credentials.

Oh, wait. That's not going to sell your book like informal Time magazine write-ups and call-ins to "Rover's Morning Glory".

Scumbag.


Just curious. Those committing ad hominem attacks... is your assertion that a pro ADHD scientist has never written a book?
 
2014-03-17 01:08:33 PM  
I don't think this guy is completely off his nut (for example, PTSD in children can have symptoms very similar to ADHD and could easily be mistaken for it) but he lost credibility with me as soon as he used the phrase "Big Pharma."

Anyone who uses that term instead of "pharmaceutical industry" is not to be taken seriously.
 
2014-03-17 01:12:29 PM  

JoelWhy: Finally, the scientist who wrote this article is acting completely irresponsibly. There is ample evidence to support the conclusion that ADHD exists. As with much of psychiatry, the symptoms are difficult to nail down, and you're dealing with a spectrum disorder. There's clearly a great deal of over-diagnosis (especially since so many of these diagnosis are made by physicians with insufficient training in this field.) But, to claim the illness doesn't exist based on...well, based on virtually nothing; I'm sorry to see the media pick up on the story.


He really isn't. If there is ample evidence to support the conclusion that ADHD exists then why is it effectively diagnosed by a scan-tron filled out by parents and teachers (bad picture, but that's the form)? Further more if the parents are divorced all parties to not have to agree on the child's behavior. 1/3 with high risk for ADHD and 1/3 with medium risk is more than enough, even if the last party has no problem that they find abnormal. Heck even 2/3 with medium risk and 1/3 with no risk can and will start the drugs. On top of that the scan-tron is as subjective as it gets "Do you think your child is hyper 1-10" "Does your child have trouble paying attention to normal activities 1-10".

There is a reason that it is so often mocked as "children just need a spanking to fix ADHD" and that reason basically relates to "Does your 6 year old think boring sh*t is boring? Yes, well then ADHD!"

Think I'm kidding/exaggerating?

https://www.msu.edu/course/cep/888/ADHD%20files/DSM-IV.htm

(1) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activity
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions)
(e) often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
(f) often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
(g) often looses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books or tools)
(h) is often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
(i) is often forgetful in daily activities

(2) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:
Hyperactivity
(a) often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
(b) often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
(c) often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
(d) often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
(e) is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
(f) often talks excessively

Impulsivity
(g) often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
(h) often has difficulty awaiting turn
(i) often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)
B. Some hyperactive-impulsive or inattentive symptoms must have been present before age 7 years.
C. Some impairment from the symptoms is present in at least two settings (e.g., at school [or work] and at home).
D. There must be clear evidence of interference with developmentally appropriate social, academic or occupational functioning.
E. The disturbance does not occur exclusively during the course of a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, or other Psychotic Disorders and is not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Mood Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, Dissociative Disorder, or a Personality Disorder).

They diagnose this crap on kids as young as 5, see - when they start school. I wonder why your kid is hyperactive before 7?

Asking lazy parents or teachers if kid A is too much trouble to deal with will nearly always yield diagnosis worthy results. I speak from experience as I have a child who had been diagnosed with ADHD based on her mother saying she has it and a teacher who won't put in any effort beyond what is required. The next year in school she had a very interested teacher and suddenly the diagnosis wasn't clear between mother and teacher and I was told "well the drugs worked!" until her mother went back to the doc behind my back and begged for more drugs. Then the drugs hadn't worked ... then all the sudden she really  really needed them because of the original diagnosis paperwork.

I will grant that speaking in superlatives is bad, but the ADHD system as it stands just begs to be torn to pieces by anyone who is near the end of their career (as in the middle they seem to be more interested in prescribing the drugs and making a living than actual patient care).
 
2014-03-17 01:20:46 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: JoelWhy: Finally, the scientist who wrote this article is acting completely irresponsibly. There is ample evidence to support the conclusion that ADHD exists. As with much of psychiatry, the symptoms are difficult to nail down, and you're dealing with a spectrum disorder. There's clearly a great deal of over-diagnosis (especially since so many of these diagnosis are made by physicians with insufficient training in this field.) But, to claim the illness doesn't exist based on...well, based on virtually nothing; I'm sorry to see the media pick up on the story.

He really isn't. If there is ample evidence to support the conclusion that ADHD exists then why is it effectively diagnosed by a scan-tron filled out by parents and teachers (bad picture, but that's the form)? Further more if the parents are divorced all parties to not have to agree on the child's behavior. 1/3 with high risk for ADHD and 1/3 with medium risk is more than enough, even if the last party has no problem that they find abnormal. Heck even 2/3 with medium risk and 1/3 with no risk can and will start the drugs. On top of that the scan-tron is as subjective as it gets "Do you think your child is hyper 1-10" "Does your child have trouble paying attention to normal activities 1-10".

There is a reason that it is so often mocked as "children just need a spanking to fix ADHD" and that reason basically relates to "Does your 6 year old think boring sh*t is boring? Yes, well then ADHD!"

Think I'm kidding/exaggerating?

https://www.msu.edu/course/cep/888/ADHD%20files/DSM-IV.htm

(1) Six (or more) of the following symptoms of inattention have persisted for at least six months to a degree that is maladaptive and inconsistent with developmental level:

Inattention
(a) often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
(b) often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activity
(c) often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
(d) ...


Hey, how is PTSD often diagnosed?

It's probably farking fake too.
 
2014-03-17 01:28:23 PM  

Necronic: "Medical doctors have pretty much zero business diagnosing and prescribing things."

I meant mental health disorders.  They are absolutely the right person to do normal diagnosing and prescribing.   Just not for mental health.


A PSYCHIATRIST has MEDICAL DEGREE! This means s/he has attended medical school and did his/her RESIDENCY in psychiatry. A PYSHCOLOGIST has a DOCTORATE in psychology. S/he must write a thesis paper regarding a particular topic regarding psychology.

So are you saying that a pediatrician shouldn't make this diagnosis. Or that ONLY pediatric psychiatrist or psychologist  should?
 
2014-03-17 01:30:17 PM  
I get PTSD it could happen to war vets. But ADHD diagnosis list is so generic that leads to all of us having partial ADHD. Although those meds are the shiat to romp through the school tests. I will get my kids some of those if they turn out dull and dick!sh which I fully understand.
 
2014-03-17 01:48:13 PM  
shortymac: You may want to look into Central Auditory Processing Disorder, my brother has it (along with Autism and a whole host of other issues).   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auditory_processing_disorder

I've often wondered that a lot of people with "ADHD: inattentive, non-hyper" is actually CAPD.

Invest in good sound-cancelling headphones that drown out all other noise, buy an iPod or use your smartphone to pipe in calming music, a podcast, or an audiobook. It really helps.


Winner winner ding ding OMG SHUT UP!!!!

Imagine trying to work in an open office with 4 of the 7 people in the area being the personification of LOUD HOWARD.  Then add in a plotter in the background, a printer that never quits, a love the speakerphone by LOUD HOWARD, noisy keyboards, hard plastic casters on chair mats and people that can't sit still and my favorite, the 36"x48" sheets of paper that are always rustling.

Think that's bad?  Add in 2-3 radios.  One with buttrock lawnmower music, one with showtunes and mine trying to push country through the mix.  Then add in a pair of bosses that don't believe in headphones and a secretary that will let the phones ring in our area if she's on another line. But wait, it gets better!  If you try to concentrate on what you're doing LOUD HOWARD will sneak up and slam a book down next to you.

Try having CAPD in that.  No wonder why I drink
 
2014-03-17 01:51:16 PM  
While it's true that ADHD is over-diagnosed, and stimulants are over-prescribed, this does not mean there is no such thing as ADHD. Medications make an enormous difference for many kids, just not all of them that are diagnosed with a problem.
 
2014-03-17 01:54:06 PM  

namatad: so drugs are being used to treat symptoms, rather than tests being done to determine if there is some sort of underlying condition and then treating that condition?

COLOR ME SHOCKED
Especially given the terrible health care in the US.


CSB
I had undiagnosed hashimoto's (hypothyroidism) for probably 10 years.
ooo depression? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep problems? lets put you on meds
ooo weight gain? well you are just lazy
ooo hypertension? lets put you on meds
ooo sleep apnea? lets put you on a machine or something

Even after being put on hormone replacement, the doctor was under dosing me, because they are TERRIFIED of going over. LOL

FFS, once I FINALLY was properly treated, oh LOOK, my sleep problems went away, my depression went away, my weight improved, my hypertension improved.

All at the cost of a generic pill and proper testing.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

TL;DR - be in charge of your own medical health, because no one else is
/csb




I had to move home after hypothyroidism (probably Hashimoto's, since I had very different symptoms for a few years that shifted to hypo symptoms) joined narcolepsy and ruined my ability to bathe, brush my teeth, and do anything else necessary with any kind of reliability. Took several years to get diagnosed because I wasn't functioning enough to manage seeing my primary care doctor when I was already struggling to see my neurologist.

Anyway, so I had to move home, find new doctors. New sleep doctor insists I just have sleep apnea because I'd gained weight and now I'm fat. While holding a sleep study showing narcolepsy from forever ago, with me saying I'd had all these symptoms since well before I became fat, and that I'd since been diagnosed with and treated for hypothyroidism. Insisted I get another sleep study. I asked why, since she was holding a sleep study in her hand. She said "because we can't titrate CPAP without it."

I obviously didn't go back there. Still haven't been to see another sleep doctor yet.
 
2014-03-17 01:54:11 PM  
Certainly this disorder exists - in a tiny minority of the population.  The perception that this disorder doesn't exist comes from the way it's abused - by pharma companies who are all too eager to get people on subscriptive medication that they're stuck on for life, by parents who are too lazy and timid to stand up to their children and be parents, by teachers who don't want to deal with normal unruly children, and by slackers who want to blame their lack of success in life on some medical condition they don't actually have.

It's no coincidence that EVERY lazy parent I know has kids with "ADHD" now, that EVERY loser I know who blew through their 20s & 30s smoking weed and doing nothing useful has rolled into their 40s blaming their lack of success in life on "having ADHD/Aspergers", that  EVERY boy but 2 in my nephew's 5th grade class of 30 kids has been diagnosed as having this disorder and put on medication.
 
2014-03-17 01:54:40 PM  
Both Time magazine and the submitter didn't bother to read the first sentence of the article.  The doctor says that ADHD is a symptom of at least 20 different conditions, each of which need to be treated differently.
 
2014-03-17 01:59:12 PM  

ksdanj: AverageAmericanGuy: I've met a few kids who definitely had something wrong with them. Hyperactive, inability to concentrate, inappropriate behavior, struggle with authority. These are all normal behaviors of normal kids. But when you meet a kid with the type of behavioral problem that they call ADHD, these are magnified tenfold.

Sure, the doctors are probably overprescribing drugs to kids who don't need them because their parents are no longer willing to be parents and would rather just drug kids into compliance, but having spent time with some of kids who are actually having their quality of life destroyed by their uncontrollable behaviors, I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

THIS.

I was very skeptical about the prevalence of ADHD until I started working with elementary school aged children. I was raised old school and figure what these kids needed most was an ass whuppin'.

I'm sure that over medication of kids and young adults does happen but I've personally seen dozens of kids who have had their ability to concentrate AND LEARN aided by medication...


My (now adult) kid was diagnosed with ADHD in the early ninties before most people had ever heard of the disorder. It was generational, as both her father and grandmother had the same symptoms as children. Her grandmother in the forties couldn't sit still in school and was constantly being disciplined to no avail. That was before the Nazi occupation of her country, so when that happened, no one cared anymore and she was allowed to skip school and instead do things like walk up and down the train tracks looking for little pieces of coal to heat their house. Her dad had a hellish time in school and at home, too hyperactive to even sit down and eat let alone try to deal with school and on top of that he had dyslexia. All of that was undiagnosed, but the family was well aware of the issues. When our daughter started having trouble, this time, this generation, we did something about it. She was on dexedrine until she was in high school and began hyper caffeinating on her own. One cup of coffee makes her fall asleep, three or so helps her concentrate. When you can see that things that speed normal people up make these folks calm down, it's not hard to understand that its a wiring issue, especially when other things have been ruled out.

It exists, but a lot of other things mimic and need to be weeded out first. That's the problem.
 
2014-03-17 02:02:44 PM  

Felgraf: Hey, how is PTSD often diagnosed?

It's probably farking fake too.


That's what the army has been saying.  Because if someone is discharged for a thing that happened to them while in the service, in might cost the army money.  Discharging someone for misbehavior, on the other hand, saves them money.
 
2014-03-17 02:04:23 PM  

FnkyTwn: allylloyd: Her kids don't need medicine they need 1) better parents and 2) an ass whooping!

Oh hey! It seems your mini-strokes/seizures have managed to stick your mind back in the 80s! Welcome to 2014! Spanking is not only frowned upon, it's also borderline illegal. Also, as a person who got plenty of spankings in the 70s and 80s (I broke a paddle with my ass in the 2nd grade, but that was mostly because my dad had drilled too many air holes in it to cut down on wind resistance), I know it's about as effective as throwing somebody in jail without a way to better yourself. It only tends to make sneaky behavior more sneaky.

Would ADHD meds have cut down on my parents frustration level with me as a child? Who's really to say, but surely it would have been worth a try seeing as how months of restriction and regular beatings spankings managed to only make me a smarter criminal.

/I have yet to spank my own kids


Notice carefully:
- Whupping your kids = NOT LAZY PARENTING even if it farks up their heads. They should be out of the house and fighting to survive by the time this happens anyway.
- Giving them a pill = LAZY PARENTING even if it calms them down and makes them feel and act human.
 
2014-03-17 02:11:12 PM  

flondrix: Felgraf: Hey, how is PTSD often diagnosed?

It's probably farking fake too.

That's what the army has been saying.  Because if someone is discharged for a thing that happened to them while in the service, in might cost the army money

 make them change their training methods, which are PERFECT, and that will KILL more of our boys in the next war.
 
2014-03-17 02:24:20 PM  

log_jammin: I have the feeling the good doctor did not come to his conclusion based on the scientific method.


I have the feeling the good doctor is a goddamn moran who needs his license reviewed, and possibly his IQ score.

/What the fark part of 'professional' makes you think it's a good idea to go on an opinion piece basically saying you don't believe that a condition exists instead of doing research and publishing a paper?
 
2014-03-17 02:24:45 PM  
There was no such thing as ADHD when I was a kid. If there was, that eraser flying across the classroom that the teacher just chucked and whacked the the kid that wasn't paying attention on the side of the head took care of it. Yep, no such thing in those days. I remember another teacher that would wing a stick of chalk like a fastball and it would make a really big "CRACK" when it hit the side blackboard. Yeah, no such thing.
 
2014-03-17 02:25:57 PM  
Human children are not hard-wired to sit in a chair, listening to lectures for 6 hours a day... I'll go are far as to say, the day-dreamers are the normal ones.
 
2014-03-17 02:39:51 PM  
Any kid, usually boys, who won't sit still in school like a rotting carcass gets pilled up. I doubt that this doctor can change that. Teachers who have read a pamphlet are convinced they know it all, and big pharma wants to pill up everybody.
 
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