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(BBC-US)   Exit polling in Crimea shows 93% of voters in favor of leaving Ukraine for Russia. Problem solved, right?   (bbc.com) divider line 232
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Crimean, Russia, ethnic Russians, Independence Square, Prime Minister of Ukraine, Donetsk, exit polls  
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4818 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2014 at 4:00 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



232 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-16 06:50:20 PM

hi13760: I wonder what happen to the other 7% ?



They're still on the plane.
 
2014-03-16 06:58:48 PM

TheThighsofTorgo: So what is Putin's endgame, if any?
If he takes another bold step, the global market cuts the legs from under the ruble.
If he backs down, he looks weak.
I don't really see a soft landing for either side right now.


I dont think it makes him look weak.  It makes him look less like a land grabber.
 
2014-03-16 07:01:32 PM
yeah, and 93% of women in my state want me to be their pimp.  The other 7% just would just be happy to suck my cock.

It's amazing how well voting goes when you get to decide what the numbers will be.

How bad is it in Ukraine that 93% of people in one small, but important part of that country would rather be a part of Russia?

Anyway, I'm loving this.  It's the best news story in a long time.  Not too many people getting killed, RT twisting everything around, Other news sources fumbling around trying to even find Crimea on a map.  Russian troops.  Burning tires.  General mayhem.  This is awesome.

It's almost as good as Breaking Bad.
 
2014-03-16 07:05:20 PM

uber humper: If we were to threaten Putin, he wouldn't believe it, either


Of course he wouldn't.  We're not actually crazy enough to carry out any substantial threats.   There's no way we'd start another Cold War over an area that has neither strong ties nor strategic interest to us.  We'll do to Russia about the same thing they'd do if we annexed, say, Cuba - complain about it, throw some minor economic sanctions around, and not really do anything more.
 
2014-03-16 07:05:35 PM

FormlessOne: uber humper: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

It kinda did work out that what when Texas split from Mexico to become it own country, then joined the US

Point
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You

It's why I don't view the Alamo as anything but a symbol of national shame, and why so many folks still remind the United States that, yeah, we used to do this, too.



Yeah I remember when the Alamo happened and then the US Army invaded Texas in response and conquered it too. Oh wait that didn't happen.
 
2014-03-16 07:08:24 PM

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Aha! The Cruex of the problem.

Crimea is not physically a part of Ukraine or Russia.
She is her own place/nation/state.
She is wise to choose the larger and more sane Cohort.

See? lookit, all by herself, she is, and "available!
img.fark.net


No crime here... Happy citizens
img.fark.net

Meh.... donacarea, one step from the grave...life goes on. Yr move...
img.fark.net

Are the USA, inc smoking something? The hell we startn a fight we can,t finish?
 
2014-03-16 07:08:49 PM

Nutsac_Jim: Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.

How nice of you to ask a question and then answer it for him.

How long did you suck your dad's dick until your mom found out?

Oh, 8 years?  Is that why he bought you a new Mustang?


What a dear.  You're the intelligent one in your social circle, aren't you?
 
2014-03-16 07:16:26 PM
I'm so mad I could kick something.

Crimea is in the middle of this monumental vote to determine if they should be part of Russia or not part of Ukraine. Sure it's a both bad choice that's just evil. A sort of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. Either they are with Russia or not with Ukraine. How that even got put on a referendum.... I struggle to understand.

And here's what just gets my goat:  We live in the "freest nation in the world." We have "the freedoms." And when pray tell do we farking vote? Tuesday. We make it as difficult as possible to get out and vote. If you work a nine to five, you either have to get to voting booth just as it opens or immediately after work.

The only reason I see that it makes any sense is tyranny of the wealthy. Make it easiest for the old and rich to vote, hardest for working poor. Scare the shiat out of the old, so that they vote Republican.

//I hate it so much.
 
2014-03-16 07:20:08 PM

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Gantanamo.... and numerous other "colonies"

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war?
Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?
 
2014-03-16 07:23:07 PM

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Isn't that what happened with all the southwestern states in the first place?
 
2014-03-16 07:23:48 PM

Trocadero: Target Builder: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Isn't that about how the US got Texas to start with?

That is exactly how Texas became a US state to begin with. Well, Santa Ana sure helped, too.


Let's cut a deal.  We'll give Texas back to Mexico if Russia gives Crimea back to Ukraine.
 
2014-03-16 07:25:33 PM
people just don't understand, Russia just needs more breathing room!
 
2014-03-16 07:30:58 PM

Saturn5: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

But 90% of Americans want strict gun control!


The actual stat is 90% of Americans support expanded background checks which I, as a gun owner, support as well. But if you need to justify your opinion by twisting and misstating facts, go right ahead.
 
2014-03-16 07:36:01 PM

ornithopter: A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?


We can watch it go up, and we can watch it come down. Should make for some good YouTube clips.
 
2014-03-16 07:37:22 PM

Pichu0102: geek_mars: ........

...So uh, what does Russia get out of Crimea then?



They've already got lots of vodka...... so this time it's Port.
 
2014-03-16 07:37:47 PM

oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.


Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?
 
2014-03-16 07:39:23 PM
Dumb question. I know Poland was quoted as saying early on in this that if shiat went down, they were willing to commit their armed forces to defend Ukraine against the Russians. I haven't been able to find anything about this since. Was this just an overzealous staffer comment or is Poland really feeling their oats on this one?
 
2014-03-16 07:40:04 PM

GoldSpider: "At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...



img.fark.net
 
2014-03-16 07:40:18 PM

gfid: oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.

Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?


Ras-Putin
 
2014-03-16 07:40:58 PM

gfid: oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.

Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?


Fine, then give it back to the Mongols.
 
2014-03-16 07:42:15 PM
yeah this referendum is about as that creepy guy with the van marked free candy.

Putin had a chance to stop this nonsense now he will have to pay the price.   I hope he has good life insurance cause his rich buddies will probably ice him when they begin to lose a shiat tn of money.
 
2014-03-16 07:42:47 PM

Wicked Chinchilla: This is also what I dont get about Putin's actions. Everything in this situation screams short term gain, long term loss and Putin has this reputation as a coldly calculating leader. Well, nothing about this seems based in rational calculation. Even the referendum options could have been better to improve their legitimacy.


He is an ex KGB officer, so conspiracy thinking is something which comes natural to him. That might explain his lack of ratio. And when Merkel says he's lost touch with reality, he probably has.
 
2014-03-16 07:43:14 PM

JSTACAT: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Gantanamo.... and numerous other "colonies"

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war?
Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?


whew, I was worried reading your post that you would leave off one of these: reich, Nazi, Zionist Coup, US EU Nationalist plot or (my favorite) Nationalist Nazi Zionist Coup backed by the US to overthrow Ukraine and Russia.  However you didn't, so full Russian propaganda corps. medal to you comrade.

I am with you comrade.  In fact I think the POTUS should go on air and tell the Chinese that we would be happy to help them protect those ethnic Chinese citizens in Siberia.  The Washington Post is rife with reports of Russian atrocities there.  Hong Kong dailies have pictures of the Russian governor saluting a Nazi flag for crying out loud.  China needs to protect those citizens.
 
2014-03-16 07:47:05 PM

Dangl1ng: I'm so mad I could kick something.

Crimea is in the middle of this monumental vote to determine if they should be part of Russia or not part of Ukraine. Sure it's a both bad choice that's just evil. A sort of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. Either they are with Russia or not with Ukraine. How that even got put on a referendum.... I struggle to understand.

And here's what just gets my goat:  We live in the "freest nation in the world." We have "the freedoms." And when pray tell do we farking vote? Tuesday. We make it as difficult as possible to get out and vote. If you work a nine to five, you either have to get to voting booth just as it opens or immediately after work.

The only reason I see that it makes any sense is tyranny of the wealthy. Make it easiest for the old and rich to vote, hardest for working poor. Scare the shiat out of the old, so that they vote Republican.

//I hate it so much.

[Me Too]

Well, the old know they are soon gonna die & they figger, everyone else ought to do the same.
Our votes count for nothing... common knowledge for many decades.
 
2014-03-16 07:56:07 PM

JaMorg: ...............

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war? Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?

whew, I was worried reading your post that you would leave off one of these: reich, Nazi, Zionist Coup, US EU Nationalist plot



Guess What?
img.fark.net
You'll all get over it. :)
 
2014-03-16 07:58:04 PM

JSTACAT: Well, the old know they are soon gonna die & they figger, everyone else ought to do the same.


Sounds good, Cletus.
 
2014-03-16 08:04:24 PM

brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.


Well you're certainly right. I must admit ignorance here. I wasn't aware the Crimea was 95 percent Russian. Nor did I know that Russia had the unique ability to initiate elections in portions of other independent countries to "validate" their otherwise illegal activity.

Interesting. Hmm... wonder which one they'll do next.
 
2014-03-16 08:06:09 PM

BigNumber12: GoldSpider: "At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...


[participant prize image]


This is what I don't get: with the UN, everybody is a participant. It's not a separate entity you can merrily antagonize. Lots of Americans like to gloat when the UN fails at something, but isn't the US part of it? The UN's lack of power only shows how troublesome humans are. It existence shows how far we've nonetheless managed to get.
 
2014-03-16 08:07:58 PM
With as rigged as this election was I'm surprised the result wasn't 104.1% in favor.
 
2014-03-16 08:08:18 PM
yeah, this vote wasn't on the up and up.  i imagine 93% of lgtb also voted to leave for russia.
 
2014-03-16 08:08:27 PM
Ukraine is the worst city in Asia.
 
2014-03-16 08:10:54 PM

violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.


Cede territory which was handed to Ukraine, against the wishes of the inhabitants, by a dictator a mere sixty years ago?
 
2014-03-16 08:11:03 PM

sheep snorter: I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


If you're intending to educate morans you should probably not imply Sewards folly was a gift. Mkay?
 
2014-03-16 08:14:09 PM

FormlessOne: So, yeah, #1 is still rather comparable, as the vast majority of those claiming "pro-Russian" weren't born until well after that canard.


Nobody in Ireland was alive when Cromwell was around, but they still complain about him. People, eh?
 
2014-03-16 08:17:58 PM

Ilmarinen: This is what I don't get: with the UN, everybody is a participant. It's not a separate entity you can merrily antagonize. Lots of Americans like to gloat when the UN fails at something, but isn't the US part of it?


Considering the fact that we fund 22% of the UN's budget - more than twice that of the next major contributor - I'd say that yes, we're "part of it."

I think that a lot of U.N.-skewering - certainly mine - is a form of gallows humor. "This dysfunctional piece of crap, where the major powers can simply veto resolutions aimed at them away, is the best that humanity can manage."
 
2014-03-16 08:28:04 PM

iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.


Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?
 
2014-03-16 08:28:40 PM

orbister: violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.

Cede territory which was handed to Ukraine, against the wishes of the inhabitants, by a dictator a mere sixty years ago?


Odd, I seem to recall the Tartars not liking the Russians much.

Ooooh, you mean the "inhabitants" brought in to take over the homes of the victims of genocide. Well OF COURSE their wishes are paramount! Good on you for taking the moral high road and finding the real victims here.
 
2014-03-16 08:31:56 PM
Did the chads come off of the ballots in favor of joining Russia, like the one's used in the US Election in Florida that automatically voted for Bush?
 
2014-03-16 08:34:09 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.


As usual, even the self-hating Americans think this is all about the United States. It's what it is INDEPENDENTLY of what America thinks about it, so stop pretending this is all about what the U.S. does or does not think.

It's not democracy because it's not farking democracy even were the U.S. to be removed from this earth by a giant cheese-grater.
 
2014-03-16 08:36:32 PM

Mrtraveler01: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

CNN showed footage of people voting twice while the "observers" sat and watched.

Guess Crimea is like Russia Chicago after all.

 
2014-03-16 08:52:06 PM

zimbomba63: iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.

Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?


Besides not putting out a good album since "Astra"?
 
2014-03-16 08:52:25 PM
And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.
 
2014-03-16 08:59:23 PM

gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.


To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.
 
2014-03-16 09:00:12 PM

gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.


You know who else expressed jealousy over how easy bigotry was in the US?
 
2014-03-16 09:01:09 PM

TommyDeuce: gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.

To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.


Maybe so, but fretting over the fate of Russians in Crimea is like fretting over the fate of white guys who have been squatting on Native American land.
 
2014-03-16 09:05:14 PM
I just want to ask Romney if Putin is still better than Obama.
 
2014-03-16 09:12:57 PM

Ricardo Klement: TommyDeuce: gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.

To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.

Maybe so, but fretting over the fate of Russians in Crimea is like fretting over the fate of white guys who have been squatting on Native American land.


My wife has family who are Winnebago - based on past history, they probably aim rather then fret.

/Not sure how it relates to Crimea
//CFamilyB?
 
2014-03-16 09:14:31 PM
biatch, whine, make sarcastic comments and complain.

Either NATO gets involved or it tosses Ukraine under the bus -- what it boils down to is a European problem.  Secession and becoming part of another confederation has happened through history, but usually those trying to secede get a good stomping from those they are trying to secede from.  No shiat Putin had his hand up to his elbow in this, but the fact is a chunk of the Ukraine's population wanted to buddy up with their cultural brethren, and there was a whole lot of shiat that was going down before this that would have contributed to this. (The democratically elected leader was OUSTED by a coup, remember?)

Do you want to go to war over this?  You.  Parked in front of your computer playing pundit or armchair general.  This wouldn't be Crimea War 2, but World War 3.  Brush up on your history, namely the devastation caused by Allied bombings in Europe during the last World War, and the atomic bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima in Japan.  Just because you are across the Atlantic doesn't mean an ICBM can't make your day the worst one in your life.  Or what would be the last few seconds of it,

I've still got some contacts in the military and government agencies, and what I've gleaned from them means the next six months are going to be ones of massive sphincter tightening,  But their are plans in motion to deal with this situation.  You may not get the instant gratification of a video game, but Putin is going to feel the squeeze like he has never felt it before,  Sanctions, rearming of every country and state around Russia, no more slap and tickle international policy but the good old-fashioned "we are going to fark you over at every opportunity" strategy they used during the last cold war.  Putin was left alone because he was the only one who could keep that corrupt mess that Russia turned into together without it turning into a totally destabilized mess with nuclear weapons, but now he's going to get the time-out of his life.

It is just going to take time.  That, and Nato and other European and Asian AND Middle-East states need that to get their shiat together just in case someone decides to deviate from the playbook.  Let Russia babysit the Crimea.  Let the Russians there celebrate whatever they think they accomplished.  It will just make it easier to bomb them into submission it if comes to that.

Six months.  It will be one hell of a ride, but just enjoy it instead of blaming everyone that can't do shiat about it and salivating over the idea of MAD.  That is Mutually Assured Destruction, if you forgot the fact that there are still enough nukes to kill off the entire population of the planet several times over.
 
2014-03-16 09:15:19 PM

TommyDeuce: zimbomba63: iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.

Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?

Besides not putting out a good album since "Astra"?


Wait, you think that's what's causing the problem? Ukraine and Russia should have a "Battle of the Bands" for the Crimea.
 
2014-03-16 09:16:54 PM

Zombie DJ: Not going to pretend to be an expert, but I was talking to a good friends wife who recently came from Russia and she says this is really what most of them actually want. To be with Russia.
/2 cents


Yes. But people coming from Ukraine, the country losing territory to Russia, are saying the opposite. I don't know anyone from the Crimean region though.
 
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