If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC-US)   Exit polling in Crimea shows 93% of voters in favor of leaving Ukraine for Russia. Problem solved, right?   (bbc.com) divider line 232
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Crimean, Russia, ethnic Russians, Independence Square, Prime Minister of Ukraine, Donetsk, exit polls  
•       •       •

4852 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2014 at 4:00 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



232 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-03-16 05:32:47 PM

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Just wait until China eventually decides they can use this Russian move against them to take the sparsely populated Russian far east from them in the future.
 
2014-03-16 05:33:28 PM
93%?  95.5%?

That's past the derp threshold.  The percentage of people opposing separation is less than the percentage of Americans who think the latest Katy Perry video is a secret Illuminati ritual to consecrate Whitney Houston's death as a human sacrifice.

/Seriously, don't read Youtube comments
 
2014-03-16 05:34:40 PM

uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.


There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas. Neither are going to happen as long as the EU and NATO are not directly threatened. If Russia sends in "troops" to protect ethnic Russians in Poland and the Baltics, we might - MIGHT - see the EU and NATO take more direct action. But probably not, since they were once part of the Soviet bloc and therefore may be easier to write off. I would hope that NATO and the EU would step up to protect one of their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if NATO and the EU had some sort of loophole they could use to oust a member nation when they really, really need it. (The likelihood of this goes way, way, way up if the USA is not willing to commit to boots on the ground to protect a NATO member, and I don't see the USA getting into a military conflict with Russia for anything less than an attack on the USA itself.)

At this point getting rid of Putin won't help matters; Russia has taken steps onto the world stage in a way that Russia can't easily back down from. They've riled up pro-Russia sentiment among the Russians both inside and outside of Russia, they've set themselves up as the "protectors" of Ethnic Russians and so any action they take to "protect" Ethnic Russians is justified. Not taking actions to protect Ethnic Russians is a sign of weakness that no Russian leader would be able to survive. So even if Putin were to fall on an umbrella tomorrow the problems in the Ukraine would continue... and the rest of the world would have to spend time getting to know the new Russian president. (The devil you know vs the devil you don't know and all that)

geek_mars: If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.


And then Russia goes "Those poor Ethnic Russians in Kiev are being oppressed! We must go save them." and moves to take the entirety of Ukraine.

Also, there is no way NATO is going to let Ukraine in now. There's just too much danger of an actual war with Russia that NATO will have to get into if they admit the Ukraine... and NATO doesn't want to get into a war with Russia. The USA doesn't want a war with Russia, EU doesn't want to turn off the Russian fossil fuels anytime soon so Russia is in the drivers seat until either the USA decides to put boots on the ground to counter Russia's boots on the ground OR the EU decides to buy their fossil fuels elsewhere for a few months.
 
2014-03-16 05:36:47 PM

uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.


Maybe you need to study up on your history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#Iraqi-American_relat io ns

On 25 July 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.

The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, "inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion" on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts."

She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[24][25]

According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was "we didn't think he would go that far" meaning invade and annex the whole country.


Unless of course you mean the most recent time we invaded Iraq, which was going to happen no matter what Saddam did.
 
2014-03-16 05:37:04 PM

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Yup, just like it don't matter what Sudetenland wanted. After all, letting Germany seize it gave us "peace in our time".
 
2014-03-16 05:37:43 PM

Sid_6.7: FTFY


Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.
 
2014-03-16 05:38:09 PM

uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]


Or know their place?
 
2014-03-16 05:38:58 PM

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Or, Chicago.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:07 PM
Vote anyway you feel like... because Putin is counting the ballots.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:48 PM
Putin Polling? Positively Perfect. Precisely Preformed.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:51 PM

brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.


Over 10% of the population is Tartar. The odds that any of them voted to join Russia is about as good as Leonardo DiCaprio deciding to bang Precious.
 
2014-03-16 05:40:26 PM
It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.
 
2014-03-16 05:41:12 PM
Attention all states of the Russian Federation
Attention all states of the Russian Federation
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
 
2014-03-16 05:42:46 PM

Mrbogey: brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.

Over 10% of the population is Tartar. The odds that any of them voted to join Russia is about as good as Leonardo DiCaprio deciding to bang Precious.


They were boycotting the election.
 
2014-03-16 05:43:01 PM
Anschluss! Anschluss! Anschluss!
 
2014-03-16 05:44:33 PM
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-16 05:44:50 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.


"Status quo" wasn't even on the ballot. Even setting aside all other factors (my previous post listed several), that's pretty egregious.
 
2014-03-16 05:45:11 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


img.fark.net

Thanks for trying! Here's your potato
 
2014-03-16 05:47:21 PM

Xcott: Sid_6.7: FTFY

Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.


No problem. I think it was due to an appropriate picture you posted. Can you remember the thread?
 
2014-03-16 05:47:51 PM

Techhell: There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas.


You know that Russia supplies gas to the EU, right?

Your statement reads like you think that the EU supplies gas to Russia.

But that's a major factor in why the EU hasn't been all over Putin.
 
2014-03-16 05:49:45 PM

iron de havilland: Techhell: There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas.

You know that Russia supplies gas to the EU, right?

Your statement reads like you think that the EU supplies gas to Russia.

But that's a major factor in why the EU hasn't been all over Putin.


The cash Russia gets from said gas is a -major- part of their economy.
 
2014-03-16 05:50:48 PM

HiFiGuy: Anschluss! Anschluss! Anschluss!


I made reference to Anschluss to a friend and she said it's not the best comparison. We concluded that the Invasion of Naboo from Episode 1 was the best comparison.
 
2014-03-16 05:51:35 PM

The Bestest: HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.

"Status quo" wasn't even on the ballot. Even setting aside all other factors (my previous post listed several), that's pretty egregious.


Truth is truth, even if you're Vlad Putin.
It's his hemisphere.

The good news is that his oligarch friends are on the frozen assets/suspended visa list and that's gonna hurt. Plus, the doors are opening to marginalizing Russian natural gas imports to Europe, so, you know, Pooty Poot is going to have his own big basket of problems pretty quick.
 
2014-03-16 05:52:45 PM
So what is Putin's endgame, if any?
If he takes another bold step, the global market cuts the legs from under the ruble.
If he backs down, he looks weak.
I don't really see a soft landing for either side right now.
 
2014-03-16 05:54:49 PM
I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.
 
2014-03-16 05:55:59 PM
Yanukovich didn't get anywhere near that many votes.
 
2014-03-16 05:56:25 PM

Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.


I'll take this one. If I were POTUS, I would announce a televised speech from the oval office. I would invite Kate Upton to strip tease while I ate a double cheeseburger and drank a beer while pushing a series of about 50 red buttons. Midway through I would say, "oh, hi America... I didn't hear you walk in. I'm currently sending ICBMs equipped with nuclear warheads to Russia's military targets." Then continue while Kate twerked next to my desk. When finished, I'd drain my pint glass and hit the intercom for the fist lady to come fill up my glass.

Then I'd look straight into the camera and say, "Don't fark with the United States or our allies. Goodnight America."

/I'm sure he had something better.
 
2014-03-16 05:57:46 PM

Sid_6.7: uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.

Maybe you need to study up on your history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#Iraqi-American_relat io ns

On 25 July 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.

The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, "inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion" on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts."

She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[24][25]

According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was "we didn't think he would go that far" meaning invade and annex the whole co ...


We did muddy the the water.

If we were to threaten Putin, he wouldn't believe it, either. Hell, we gave him a deadline of tomorrow.
 
2014-03-16 05:58:21 PM

sheep snorter: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


Well, sold to the US for pennies on the dollar before the British could just outright take it from them (Ironically, in the Crimean War)
 
2014-03-16 06:00:10 PM

BigNumber12: geek_mars: As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Until Russia completes replacement infrastructure across the Kerch Strait and promptly tells Ukraine to fark off with their demands.

The upside to all of this is that we may see a fancy new bridge in the world, hurriedly constructed.


A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?

www.ndtv.com sharing.thedenverchannel.com

/would not trust my life to that bridge
 
2014-03-16 06:04:43 PM

sheep snorter: I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


More like a white elephant gift.  The Russians didn't want it, they needed the cash and said here.

Only years later did they mass facepalm after gold was discovered in them thar hills.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:07 PM
That's almost as unanimous as the vote to oust president yanukovych
 
2014-03-16 06:06:24 PM

The Bestest: ash Russia gets from said gas is a -major- part of their economy.


This is why I think a shooting war is unlikely, it's an everyone loses proposition.

I also get the sense that the USA, Canada and Western Europe aren't really willing to commit much blood or treasures to affairs in Eastern Europe.  I'm a skeptic of the EU, and a bit less skeptical about NATO.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:25 PM
"At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...
 
2014-03-16 06:06:30 PM

SithLord: More like a white elephant gift.  The Russians didn't want it, they needed the cash and said here.

Only years later did they mass facepalm after gold was discovered in them thar hills.


Nah, they would have liked to keep it, but the British were likely about to demand it from them, so they figured if they were gonna lose it anyway, better to get some cash in the deal.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:54 PM

geek_mars: If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.


...So uh, what does Russia get out of Crimea then?
 
2014-03-16 06:07:31 PM

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


You can when a portion boycotts the damn thing.
 
2014-03-16 06:12:35 PM

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


But 90% of Americans want strict gun control!
 
2014-03-16 06:16:21 PM
I can't wait till Kerry or Barry signs an agreement with Vlad then loudly proclaims on camera that there will be peace in our time.
 
2014-03-16 06:23:02 PM
Until the hostages participants in the Special whatever Olympics in Sochi get out of the country this will keep going.
 
2014-03-16 06:24:21 PM

Sid_6.7: Xcott: Sid_6.7: FTFY

Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.

No problem. I think it was due to an appropriate picture you posted. Can you remember the thread?


I think it was a thread about labeling of GMO crops.
 
2014-03-16 06:26:36 PM

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


That's actually pretty close to how the US got Texas and Hawaii. In the case of Texas, Mexico invited immigrants from the fledgling US, who came in droves. Mexico felt over-whelmed, stopped immigration, and tried to strip away rights from the new arrivals, who kept on coming. The Texans rebelled and got their own country, then chose to join the US. In the case of Hawaii, US citizens started moving there in order to start plantations for a variety of products including sugarcane. The planters forced the King of Hawaii to sign an unfair constitution, then overthrew his successor when she tried to reduce the strength of the planters. The planters petitioned the US to make Hawaii a US territority and Hawaii eventually became a state.
 
2014-03-16 06:31:41 PM
There were a lot of independence movements in Mexico following their independence from Spain after 1821.  They got fierce after Santa Anna abrogated the Constitution in 1834.  After containing the one in Yucutan, he turned to the one in Coahuila and the one in Chihuahua, which were quickly handled as well.  The problem with the one in Tejas was that although the territory was very sparsely populated and Santa Anna had an army of about 6,500, there were almost no settlers in Tejas that weren't Engish-speaking immigrants that mostly came from Tennessee or other parts of what was then the United States.  Their trading settlement in what is now Santa Fe, NM was not a factor.  The Tejans raised an army of 2,000 and managed to prevail trough a combination of luck, knowledge of the local territory and loyalty of the settlers, long supply lines for Santa Ana's army, and, of course, innovative and aggressive tactics.

For some, but not enough, of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico#Political_developments _ in_the_South_and_North

This is NOT what is going on in Crimea; others have addressed the history and numbers there.  I'm sure that Russians in Russia are firmly confident that Russians everywhere would like to be under Russian control; hey, <irony> ask any Russian immigrant in Europe or the USA. </irony>.  Other votes for secession or annexation have been addressed here; I think we can all agree that such votes do not legitimize violations of territory and sovereignty.

"Those who vote decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."  -Stalin

But history tells us that sovereignty is determined by the reality of control after the fact, not by argument.

Russia has a historical need for buffer territory across the European plains between Moscow and Europe to feel secure.  But the only true security for Moscow is the full normalization of peaceful relations with their immediate neighbors.  By annexing Crimea and possibly part or all of the Ukraine, they are destroying this route to true security for at least a generation, and may just possibly be assuring themselves of yet another European war, eventually.
 
2014-03-16 06:32:29 PM
Voters have spoken, blah blah blah, get over it, blah blah bah, mandate, am I doing this right?
 
mhd
2014-03-16 06:33:20 PM

lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....


Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.
 
2014-03-16 06:39:48 PM

mhd: lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....

Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.


The trouble with Scotland is its full of scots.
 
2014-03-16 06:41:51 PM

sardonicobserver: There were a lot of independence movements in Mexico following their independence from Spain after 1821.  They got fierce after Santa Anna abrogated the Constitution in 1834.  After containing the one in Yucutan, he turned to the one in Coahuila and the one in Chihuahua, which were quickly handled as well.  The problem with the one in Tejas was that although the territory was very sparsely populated and Santa Anna had an army of about 6,500, there were almost no settlers in Tejas that weren't Engish-speaking immigrants that mostly came from Tennessee or other parts of what was then the United States.  Their trading settlement in what is now Santa Fe, NM was not a factor.  The Tejans raised an army of 2,000 and managed to prevail trough a combination of luck, knowledge of the local territory and loyalty of the settlers, long supply lines for Santa Ana's army, and, of course, innovative and aggressive tactics.

For some, but not enough, of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico#Political_developments _ in_the_South_and_North

This is NOT what is going on in Crimea; others have addressed the history and numbers there.  I'm sure that Russians in Russia are firmly confident that Russians everywhere would like to be under Russian control; hey, <irony> ask any Russian immigrant in Europe or the USA. </irony>.  Other votes for secession or annexation have been addressed here; I think we can all agree that such votes do not legitimize violations of territory and sovereignty.

"Those who vote decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."  -Stalin

But history tells us that sovereignty is determined by the reality of control after the fact, not by argument.

Russia has a historical need for buffer territory across the European plains between Moscow and Europe to feel secure.  But the only true security for Moscow is the full normalization of peaceful relations with their immediate neighbors.  By annexing Crimea and possibly part or all of the Ukraine, they are destroying this route to true security for at least a generation, and may just possibly be assuring themselves of yet another European war, eventually.


Thanks for the good synopsis. This is also what I dont get about Putin's actions. Everything in this situation screams short term gain, long term loss and Putin has this reputation as a coldly calculating leader. Well, nothing about this seems based in rational calculation. Even the referendum options could have been better to improve their legitimacy.
 
2014-03-16 06:44:44 PM

Oldiron_79: mhd: lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....

Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.

The trouble with Scotland is its full of scots.


A people conquered by wankers.
 
2014-03-16 06:49:04 PM

Gig103: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

Good call. 70% even seems high - just try asking folks around the office what they want for takeout.



Apparently, NOT borscht.
 
2014-03-16 06:49:32 PM

Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.


How nice of you to ask a question and then answer it for him.

How long did you suck your dad's dick until your mom found out?

Oh, 8 years?  Is that why he bought you a new Mustang?
 
Displayed 50 of 232 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report