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(BBC-US)   Exit polling in Crimea shows 93% of voters in favor of leaving Ukraine for Russia. Problem solved, right?   (bbc.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Ukraine, Crimean, Russia, ethnic Russians, Independence Square, Prime Minister of Ukraine, Donetsk, exit polls  
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7822 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2014 at 4:00 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



232 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-16 02:21:44 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-16 02:31:33 PM  
So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.
 
2014-03-16 03:00:37 PM  
Ha anyone posted Crimea river yet?
 
2014-03-16 03:10:06 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!
 
2014-03-16 03:23:12 PM  
You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.
 
2014-03-16 03:31:20 PM  
Well I'm glad that's taken care of.  Now we can get back to the important threads about a missing aeroplane.
 
2014-03-16 03:41:11 PM  
Seems legit.
 
2014-03-16 03:42:07 PM  

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


Good call. 70% even seems high - just try asking folks around the office what they want for takeout.
 
2014-03-16 03:43:23 PM  
I wonder what happen to the other 7% ?
 
2014-03-16 03:44:31 PM  
Russia has never had a more legitimate claim on anything than this.

So, really, it's like 15% legitimate. Maybe even as high as 20%.
 
2014-03-16 03:46:20 PM  
That's a very russian result.
 
2014-03-16 04:01:45 PM  

hi13760: I wonder what happen to the other 7% ?


Siberia.
 
2014-03-16 04:03:01 PM  
So what they are saying is 7% of the voters will have unfortunate "accidents" in the next couple days?
 
2014-03-16 04:05:07 PM  
It really seems like they're Putin on a show and Russian this whole thing through.
 
2014-03-16 04:05:27 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-16 04:06:44 PM  
I'm sure the guy standing slightly off camera with an AK had *nothing* to do with that figure. Couldn't be involved in any way...
 
2014-03-16 04:11:14 PM  
So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!
 
2014-03-16 04:11:21 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-16 04:12:12 PM  

uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]


Tool or troll? You decide!
/tool
 
2014-03-16 04:12:44 PM  
Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.
 
2014-03-16 04:13:03 PM  
i823.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-16 04:13:14 PM  

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


CNN showed footage of people voting twice while the "observers" sat and watched.

Guess Crimea is like Russia after all.
 
2014-03-16 04:14:29 PM  
Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.
 
2014-03-16 04:14:39 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


It kinda did work out that what when Texas split from Mexico to become it own country, then joined the US
 
2014-03-16 04:15:17 PM  

FormlessOne: uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]

Tool or troll? You decide!
/tool


But a tool of who?
 
2014-03-16 04:15:24 PM  
So, The rest of Ukraine wasn't allowed to vote?

Sounds legit.
 
2014-03-16 04:16:04 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


To be fair, it's parasites transmitted by insects, combined with underdevelopment and poverty. But yeah.
 
2014-03-16 04:16:25 PM  
The coming sanction war is going to hurt the global economy.

Prepare for MARTIAL LAW & SHARKNADOS

And flying taser fish.
 
2014-03-16 04:16:54 PM  
Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.
 
2014-03-16 04:17:29 PM  
Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....

/anyone seen voting photos of something other than guys in camo gear or kids wayyy to young to vote?
 
2014-03-16 04:17:50 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.
 
2014-03-16 04:18:15 PM  

Oldiron_79: Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.


But the Union had resources to take it back.
 
2014-03-16 04:18:21 PM  
Time for the lads of Kerry to stop potato farming and head to the faire like the dashing young blades they are.

/obscure?
 
2014-03-16 04:19:14 PM  
thebacklot.mtvnimages.com

"Hey Ukraine, you just got PUTOWN'D!!!"

/But seriously, this man is a James Bond villain.
 
2014-03-16 04:19:45 PM  
So I'm sure any time there's a vote for a Russian territory to secede, Moscow just hands them a gift basket and says "good luck."
 
2014-03-16 04:20:25 PM  

Oldiron_79: Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.


They even have a few "Fort Sumters" in Crimea. Once the Ruskies fire on them... it's game on!
 
2014-03-16 04:21:16 PM  

violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.


Yeah, this.

You want to be Russian? Move to farking Russia.

The real problem is that so many European countries depend on Russian gas and investments. I would dearly love for my government to administer Putin a richly deserved swift punch to the cock. But it won't happen. Eastern European nations that have been farked over by Russia in the past are very edgy at the moment.

I sincerely hope that the civilised world has the balls to tell Putin to fark off. Eject them from the G8. Sink the rouble. Give Russia's security council seat to Ukraine, just for shiats and giggles.
 
2014-03-16 04:23:28 PM  
I'm kind of hoping the Russians storm Kiev when PM Stephen Harper is there next week.
 
2014-03-16 04:23:35 PM  
What, not 140%?
 
2014-03-16 04:23:51 PM  

iron de havilland: violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.

Yeah, this.

You want to be Russian? Move to farking Russia.

The real problem is that so many European countries depend on Russian gas and investments. I would dearly love for my government to administer Putin a richly deserved swift punch to the cock. But it won't happen. Eastern European nations that have been farked over by Russia in the past are very edgy at the moment.

I sincerely hope that the civilised world has the balls to tell Putin to fark off. Eject them from the G8. Sink the rouble. Give Russia's security council seat to Ukraine, just for shiats and giggles.


This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.
 
2014-03-16 04:25:10 PM  

uber humper: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

It kinda did work out that what when Texas split from Mexico to become it own country, then joined the US


Point
.
.
.
.
..
..
..
..
...
...
...
...
You

It's why I don't view the Alamo as anything but a symbol of national shame, and why so many folks still remind the United States that, yeah, we used to do this, too.
 
2014-03-16 04:25:53 PM  

iron de havilland: violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.

Yeah, this.

You want to be Russian? Move to farking Russia.

The real problem is that so many European countries depend on Russian gas and investments. I would dearly love for my government to administer Putin a richly deserved swift punch to the cock. But it won't happen. Eastern European nations that have been farked over by Russia in the past are very edgy at the moment.

I sincerely hope that the civilised world has the balls to tell Putin to fark off. Eject them from the G8. Sink the rouble. Give Russia's security council seat to Ukraine, just for shiats and giggles.


If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.
 
2014-03-16 04:26:21 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-16 04:26:22 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


You realize this is how we got Texas?
 
2014-03-16 04:26:45 PM  
I read on the BBC a report from a Russian-Crimean against Annexation saying that he and his friends who agree with him to stay in the Ukraine will not vote, because the Russian Army and the Militias may track down addresses.

Seems like a fair assumption. That 7% are probably getting some nasty knocks on their door right about now.
 
2014-03-16 04:27:50 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


It's mostly about money.  The Ukraine and Russia supply natural resources to the rest of the EU.  Competition means lower prices and the EU has better relations with the Ukraine than with Russia.  Russia gaining control of Crimea and potentially the Ukraine, or just having more political influence means they can jack up the prices.  Kinda like how the oil rich countries in the middle east can all agree to raise prices when it is in their own best interests.

The US doesn't care too much about it, but the EU does.  And the US is an EU ally - so we're going to side with the EU.  China is a Russian ally and, shockingly, they support Russia's position.  The US cares more about keeping Russia from gaining power.  More land, more resources, more citizens == more power.  It's the same reason we didn't let the South leave the US - because money, resources, and power.
 
2014-03-16 04:27:58 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-16 04:28:08 PM  
Were these same people asked to pick up a can, too?
 
2014-03-16 04:28:08 PM  
Meanwhile at the Ukraine/Russian border (and with 96% of the vote in)

i3.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-16 04:28:39 PM  

uber humper: Oldiron_79: Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.

But the Union had resources to take it back.


Well if you dont have the resources to take it back then I guess they are seceded
 
2014-03-16 04:30:48 PM  

oukewldave: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.


See "Peace of Riga." Also, I don't see a lot of 70+-year-old "Russians" out in the streets, nor do I believe that 93% of Crimea is populated by 70+-year-old "Russians." So, yeah, #1 is still rather comparable, as the vast majority of those claiming "pro-Russian" weren't born until well after that canard.
 
2014-03-16 04:30:50 PM  

Oldiron_79: uber humper: Oldiron_79: Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.

But the Union had resources to take it back.

Well if you dont have the resources to take it back then I guess they are seceded


Yep, they don't have the pals to help out either

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2014-03-16 04:31:31 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

You realize this is how we got Texas?


ThatsTheJoke.jpg
 
2014-03-16 04:32:29 PM  

Oldiron_79: Well Crimea voted to secede, Im assuming the Ukraine will consider seceding Crimea as legit as the US considered the CSA.


Any state in the US can secede if they do so in accordance with the Constitution. Currently, as was the case in the 1860s, there was no method spelled out in the Constitution on how this should happen. But it does allow for amendments. If any state wants to leave, all they need to do is have an amendment added that either explicitly removes them from the United States or lays out the procedure for a state to do so. Canada for example has an explicit process spelled out in the Clarity Act for provinces to secede. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Ukraine has the same law as Canada, just that every country is different and you can't use the Confederacy as a legal argument for Crimea.

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


That's pretty much how quite a bit of the United States came to be.
 
2014-03-16 04:33:02 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.

It's mostly about money.  The Ukraine and Russia supply natural resources to the rest of the EU.  Competition means lower prices and the EU has better relations with the Ukraine than with Russia.  Russia gaining control of Crimea and potentially the Ukraine, or just having more political influence means they can jack up the prices.  Kinda like how the oil rich countries in the middle east can all agree to raise prices when it is in their own best interests.

The US doesn't care too much about it, but the EU does.  And the US is an EU ally - so we're going to side with the EU.  China is a Russian ally and, shockingly, they support Russia's position.  The US cares more about keeping Russia from gaining power.  More land, more resources, more citizens == more power.  It's the same reason we didn't let the South leave the US - because money, resources, and power.


Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.
 
2014-03-16 04:33:53 PM  
Can we just start mocking the posters who said that Russia wasn't going to make a move on Crimea?
 
2014-03-16 04:35:10 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


It's also how the US came into being
 
2014-03-16 04:35:36 PM  
s13.postimg.org
 
2014-03-16 04:38:03 PM  

FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.


If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.
 
2014-03-16 04:38:18 PM  
well, first "official" results are saying 95.5%
 
2014-03-16 04:38:29 PM  
So they are going to have one of these secession votes in Chechnya soon, right?
 
2014-03-16 04:40:27 PM  

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: "Hey Ukraine, you just got PUTOWN'D!!!"

/But seriously, this man is a James Bond villain.


Why can't our President be a Bond villain!

/pouts
//complains
///mom jeans
 
2014-03-16 04:40:45 PM  

EngineerAU: FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.

If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.


China is facing a population bomb.  With the one child law for a couple/few generations they are reaching a point where there will be less than 2 workers per retiree in less than 20 years
 
2014-03-16 04:41:28 PM  
If they wanted it so bad, why did they wait until this conflict?
 
2014-03-16 04:41:34 PM  
Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.
 
2014-03-16 04:45:14 PM  
And here I thought Putin was a first rate despot.  With results like that, he's just another third world wannabe despot like Ahmadinnerjacket.
 
2014-03-16 04:45:16 PM  

EngineerAU: FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.

If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.


dumbest comment of the day award. You must be the only person in the world who thinks china is having a population boom.
 
2014-03-16 04:45:20 PM  

KeelingLovesCornholes: If they wanted it so bad, why did they wait until this conflict?


That's why this conflict happened. It's a construct of Putin.
 
2014-03-16 04:45:36 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.


Imaginary Obama? Mr. Eastwood, is that you?
 
2014-03-16 04:47:20 PM  

EngineerAU: FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.

If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.


not to mention that little island they have off their coast that they claim to own...
 
2014-03-16 04:47:44 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.


Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.
 
2014-03-16 04:47:44 PM  

ontariolightning: EngineerAU: FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.

If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.

dumbest comment of the day award. You must be the only person in the world who thinks china is having a population boom.


Afghanistan has a population boom. More in the literal sense, though
 
2014-03-16 04:50:21 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.


farks's resident highchair general weighs in
 
2014-03-16 04:53:56 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


www.erindustrial.com

Send them a few can of these, and see if they can figure out how to resolve the problem.
 
2014-03-16 04:57:34 PM  

uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]


Those batons looked like they were photoshopped in by Rob Liefeld.
 
2014-03-16 04:58:53 PM  
Oh look, something else the GOP can admire about Russia.
 
2014-03-16 04:59:52 PM  
I would like it if Putin had an "accident". A very, very unfortunate one.
 
2014-03-16 05:00:00 PM  

uknesvuinng: uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]

Those batons looked like they were photoshopped in by Rob Liefeld.


No kidding, you can see is closed fist in front of the baton.

Who the fark is Rob Liefeld, doesn't sound Iranian.
 
2014-03-16 05:01:49 PM  
But how will this vote affect the silly party in parliament?
 
2014-03-16 05:03:29 PM  

zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!


that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.
 
2014-03-16 05:03:49 PM  

puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.


Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.


I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?
 
2014-03-16 05:03:53 PM  

Aar1012: But how will this vote affect the silly party in parliament?


They'll still be funky, baby. No worries
 
2014-03-16 05:04:40 PM  
The only options available on the Crimean secession vote were the following:

"Do you support joining Crimea with the Russian Federation as a citizen of the Russian Federation?"'
"Do you support restoration of 1992 Crimean Constitution and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

There was no vote option to remain a non-autonomous section of Ukraine, and as such, anyone that wasn't supporting some form of independence boycotted and stayed home.
 
2014-03-16 05:05:21 PM  

iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?


Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.
 
2014-03-16 05:06:04 PM  
If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.
 
2014-03-16 05:08:49 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.


Dude you're not even farking trying. Sorry that Obama is taking all your hard-earned tax dollars and giving it to black people.
 
2014-03-16 05:09:37 PM  

iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?


I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.
 
2014-03-16 05:13:20 PM  

brandent: that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.


-Crimea is majority Russian, but it's not 95% Russian. Closer to 54%.
-the referendum itself was set up in such a way that status quo wasn't even an option. How is that legitimate even if it wasn't illegal to begin with?
-many groups, significantly the Tartars, outright boycotted the vote
-counter-Russian media was severely suppressed. Anti-Russian websites were shut down, TV studios were taken over by troops and the pro-Russian media that remained flat out called the Kyiv gov't Nazis
 
2014-03-16 05:13:57 PM  

geek_mars: If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.


Unless of course, Putin decides that cutting the water and electricity is an "Aggressive Act"  and that large "exercise" on the Ukrainian border becomes much more then an "exercise" . . .
 
2014-03-16 05:14:13 PM  

uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.


Yeah, I think your idea is good. I, personally, would support it.

But, EU governments won't.
 
2014-03-16 05:14:19 PM  
We all know what's gonna happen next:  The Boston Marathon will be bombed by Ukranian Crimeans to make a point.
 
2014-03-16 05:14:30 PM  

uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]


Black men in north Philly.

What's the world coming to?
 
2014-03-16 05:15:21 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


This is a terrible mentality.

You're basically saying 'because you didnt care about this one thing, you're not allowed to care about anything!'

Apathy for everyone...or most peope...whatever...I'm taking a nap.
 
2014-03-16 05:16:56 PM  

geek_mars: As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.


Until Russia completes replacement infrastructure across the Kerch Strait and promptly tells Ukraine to fark off with their demands.

The upside to all of this is that we may see a fancy new bridge in the world, hurriedly constructed.
 
2014-03-16 05:17:43 PM  
really, who farking cares, indeed?

i'm sure it's all one big shiathole
 
2014-03-16 05:17:56 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Isn't that about how the US got Texas to start with?
 
2014-03-16 05:23:15 PM  

Target Builder: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Isn't that about how the US got Texas to start with?


That is exactly how Texas became a US state to begin with. Well, Santa Ana sure helped, too.
 
2014-03-16 05:28:16 PM  
I'm guessing there's 7% who oppose Russia because they're still busy fleeing on one of these:
static.neatorama.com
 
2014-03-16 05:30:33 PM  
Not going to pretend to be an expert, but I was talking to a good friends wife who recently came from Russia and she says this is really what most of them actually want. To be with Russia.
/2 cents
 
2014-03-16 05:31:15 PM  

oukewldave: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Ireland Hong Kong to reclaim it from Ireland China.


FTFY
 
2014-03-16 05:32:47 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Just wait until China eventually decides they can use this Russian move against them to take the sparsely populated Russian far east from them in the future.
 
2014-03-16 05:33:28 PM  
93%?  95.5%?

That's past the derp threshold.  The percentage of people opposing separation is less than the percentage of Americans who think the latest Katy Perry video is a secret Illuminati ritual to consecrate Whitney Houston's death as a human sacrifice.

/Seriously, don't read Youtube comments
 
2014-03-16 05:34:40 PM  

uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.


There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas. Neither are going to happen as long as the EU and NATO are not directly threatened. If Russia sends in "troops" to protect ethnic Russians in Poland and the Baltics, we might - MIGHT - see the EU and NATO take more direct action. But probably not, since they were once part of the Soviet bloc and therefore may be easier to write off. I would hope that NATO and the EU would step up to protect one of their own, but I wouldn't be surprised if NATO and the EU had some sort of loophole they could use to oust a member nation when they really, really need it. (The likelihood of this goes way, way, way up if the USA is not willing to commit to boots on the ground to protect a NATO member, and I don't see the USA getting into a military conflict with Russia for anything less than an attack on the USA itself.)

At this point getting rid of Putin won't help matters; Russia has taken steps onto the world stage in a way that Russia can't easily back down from. They've riled up pro-Russia sentiment among the Russians both inside and outside of Russia, they've set themselves up as the "protectors" of Ethnic Russians and so any action they take to "protect" Ethnic Russians is justified. Not taking actions to protect Ethnic Russians is a sign of weakness that no Russian leader would be able to survive. So even if Putin were to fall on an umbrella tomorrow the problems in the Ukraine would continue... and the rest of the world would have to spend time getting to know the new Russian president. (The devil you know vs the devil you don't know and all that)

geek_mars: If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.


And then Russia goes "Those poor Ethnic Russians in Kiev are being oppressed! We must go save them." and moves to take the entirety of Ukraine.

Also, there is no way NATO is going to let Ukraine in now. There's just too much danger of an actual war with Russia that NATO will have to get into if they admit the Ukraine... and NATO doesn't want to get into a war with Russia. The USA doesn't want a war with Russia, EU doesn't want to turn off the Russian fossil fuels anytime soon so Russia is in the drivers seat until either the USA decides to put boots on the ground to counter Russia's boots on the ground OR the EU decides to buy their fossil fuels elsewhere for a few months.
 
2014-03-16 05:36:47 PM  

uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.


Maybe you need to study up on your history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#Iraqi-American_relat io ns

On 25 July 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.

The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, "inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion" on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts."

She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[24][25]

According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was "we didn't think he would go that far" meaning invade and annex the whole country.


Unless of course you mean the most recent time we invaded Iraq, which was going to happen no matter what Saddam did.
 
2014-03-16 05:37:04 PM  

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Yup, just like it don't matter what Sudetenland wanted. After all, letting Germany seize it gave us "peace in our time".
 
2014-03-16 05:37:43 PM  

Sid_6.7: FTFY


Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.
 
2014-03-16 05:38:09 PM  

uber humper: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 528x456]


Or know their place?
 
2014-03-16 05:38:58 PM  

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Or, Chicago.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:07 PM  
Vote anyway you feel like... because Putin is counting the ballots.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:48 PM  
Putin Polling? Positively Perfect. Precisely Preformed.
 
2014-03-16 05:39:51 PM  

brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.


Over 10% of the population is Tartar. The odds that any of them voted to join Russia is about as good as Leonardo DiCaprio deciding to bang Precious.
 
2014-03-16 05:40:26 PM  
It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.
 
2014-03-16 05:41:12 PM  
Attention all states of the Russian Federation
Attention all states of the Russian Federation
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
 
2014-03-16 05:42:46 PM  

Mrbogey: brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.

Over 10% of the population is Tartar. The odds that any of them voted to join Russia is about as good as Leonardo DiCaprio deciding to bang Precious.


They were boycotting the election.
 
2014-03-16 05:43:01 PM  
Anschluss! Anschluss! Anschluss!
 
2014-03-16 05:44:33 PM  
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-16 05:44:50 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.


"Status quo" wasn't even on the ballot. Even setting aside all other factors (my previous post listed several), that's pretty egregious.
 
2014-03-16 05:45:11 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


img.fark.net

Thanks for trying! Here's your potato
 
2014-03-16 05:47:21 PM  

Xcott: Sid_6.7: FTFY

Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.


No problem. I think it was due to an appropriate picture you posted. Can you remember the thread?
 
2014-03-16 05:47:51 PM  

Techhell: There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas.


You know that Russia supplies gas to the EU, right?

Your statement reads like you think that the EU supplies gas to Russia.

But that's a major factor in why the EU hasn't been all over Putin.
 
2014-03-16 05:49:45 PM  

iron de havilland: Techhell: There are only two things that may stop Russia. 1) Bombs. 2) The EU turning off the gas.

You know that Russia supplies gas to the EU, right?

Your statement reads like you think that the EU supplies gas to Russia.

But that's a major factor in why the EU hasn't been all over Putin.


The cash Russia gets from said gas is a -major- part of their economy.
 
2014-03-16 05:50:48 PM  

HiFiGuy: Anschluss! Anschluss! Anschluss!


I made reference to Anschluss to a friend and she said it's not the best comparison. We concluded that the Invasion of Naboo from Episode 1 was the best comparison.
 
2014-03-16 05:51:35 PM  

The Bestest: HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.

"Status quo" wasn't even on the ballot. Even setting aside all other factors (my previous post listed several), that's pretty egregious.


Truth is truth, even if you're Vlad Putin.
It's his hemisphere.

The good news is that his oligarch friends are on the frozen assets/suspended visa list and that's gonna hurt. Plus, the doors are opening to marginalizing Russian natural gas imports to Europe, so, you know, Pooty Poot is going to have his own big basket of problems pretty quick.
 
2014-03-16 05:52:45 PM  
So what is Putin's endgame, if any?
If he takes another bold step, the global market cuts the legs from under the ruble.
If he backs down, he looks weak.
I don't really see a soft landing for either side right now.
 
2014-03-16 05:54:49 PM  
I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.
 
2014-03-16 05:55:59 PM  
Yanukovich didn't get anywhere near that many votes.
 
2014-03-16 05:56:25 PM  

Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.


I'll take this one. If I were POTUS, I would announce a televised speech from the oval office. I would invite Kate Upton to strip tease while I ate a double cheeseburger and drank a beer while pushing a series of about 50 red buttons. Midway through I would say, "oh, hi America... I didn't hear you walk in. I'm currently sending ICBMs equipped with nuclear warheads to Russia's military targets." Then continue while Kate twerked next to my desk. When finished, I'd drain my pint glass and hit the intercom for the fist lady to come fill up my glass.

Then I'd look straight into the camera and say, "Don't fark with the United States or our allies. Goodnight America."

/I'm sure he had something better.
 
2014-03-16 05:57:46 PM  

Sid_6.7: uber humper: iron de havilland: I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

I just don't see any alternative.  How to deal with bullies? You have to make it clear what the ramifications of their actions would be. That's where we farked up with Saddam Hussian, too. Resolution, after resolution, he began to think he could get away with anything. We confused him then we overreacted, when we could have just done some strategic bombing to begin with.

Make it clear and follow though, is the only course of action. Be hard to understand and it will grow out of proportion. Putin is just gonna be more difficult and messier to handle later.

Maybe you need to study up on your history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwait#Iraqi-American_relat io ns

On 25 July 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.

The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, "inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion" on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts."

She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[24][25]

According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was "we didn't think he would go that far" meaning invade and annex the whole co ...


We did muddy the the water.

If we were to threaten Putin, he wouldn't believe it, either. Hell, we gave him a deadline of tomorrow.
 
2014-03-16 05:58:21 PM  

sheep snorter: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


Well, sold to the US for pennies on the dollar before the British could just outright take it from them (Ironically, in the Crimean War)
 
2014-03-16 06:00:10 PM  

BigNumber12: geek_mars: As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Until Russia completes replacement infrastructure across the Kerch Strait and promptly tells Ukraine to fark off with their demands.

The upside to all of this is that we may see a fancy new bridge in the world, hurriedly constructed.


A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?

www.ndtv.com sharing.thedenverchannel.com

/would not trust my life to that bridge
 
2014-03-16 06:04:43 PM  

sheep snorter: I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


More like a white elephant gift.  The Russians didn't want it, they needed the cash and said here.

Only years later did they mass facepalm after gold was discovered in them thar hills.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:07 PM  
That's almost as unanimous as the vote to oust president yanukovych
 
2014-03-16 06:06:24 PM  

The Bestest: ash Russia gets from said gas is a -major- part of their economy.


This is why I think a shooting war is unlikely, it's an everyone loses proposition.

I also get the sense that the USA, Canada and Western Europe aren't really willing to commit much blood or treasures to affairs in Eastern Europe.  I'm a skeptic of the EU, and a bit less skeptical about NATO.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:25 PM  
"At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...
 
2014-03-16 06:06:30 PM  

SithLord: More like a white elephant gift.  The Russians didn't want it, they needed the cash and said here.

Only years later did they mass facepalm after gold was discovered in them thar hills.


Nah, they would have liked to keep it, but the British were likely about to demand it from them, so they figured if they were gonna lose it anyway, better to get some cash in the deal.
 
2014-03-16 06:06:54 PM  

geek_mars: If what I've read is accurate, Ukraine, if they're willing to let Crimea go, could wind up coming out pretty well on this. There are a lot of "ifs" but just a few working out could make this ok for Ukraine.

As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Then, when all that's ironed out and they're starting to get stable again, they can join NATO and get a few sweet military bases installed just as a final FU to Putin.


...So uh, what does Russia get out of Crimea then?
 
2014-03-16 06:07:31 PM  

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


You can when a portion boycotts the damn thing.
 
2014-03-16 06:12:35 PM  

Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.


But 90% of Americans want strict gun control!
 
2014-03-16 06:16:21 PM  
I can't wait till Kerry or Barry signs an agreement with Vlad then loudly proclaims on camera that there will be peace in our time.
 
2014-03-16 06:23:02 PM  
Until the hostages participants in the Special whatever Olympics in Sochi get out of the country this will keep going.
 
2014-03-16 06:24:21 PM  

Sid_6.7: Xcott: Sid_6.7: FTFY

Hey, I'd just like to give a belated thank-you for giving me a TotalFark membership.  By the time I noticed it, the thread we were on was closed.

No problem. I think it was due to an appropriate picture you posted. Can you remember the thread?


I think it was a thread about labeling of GMO crops.
 
2014-03-16 06:26:36 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


That's actually pretty close to how the US got Texas and Hawaii. In the case of Texas, Mexico invited immigrants from the fledgling US, who came in droves. Mexico felt over-whelmed, stopped immigration, and tried to strip away rights from the new arrivals, who kept on coming. The Texans rebelled and got their own country, then chose to join the US. In the case of Hawaii, US citizens started moving there in order to start plantations for a variety of products including sugarcane. The planters forced the King of Hawaii to sign an unfair constitution, then overthrew his successor when she tried to reduce the strength of the planters. The planters petitioned the US to make Hawaii a US territority and Hawaii eventually became a state.
 
2014-03-16 06:31:41 PM  
There were a lot of independence movements in Mexico following their independence from Spain after 1821.  They got fierce after Santa Anna abrogated the Constitution in 1834.  After containing the one in Yucutan, he turned to the one in Coahuila and the one in Chihuahua, which were quickly handled as well.  The problem with the one in Tejas was that although the territory was very sparsely populated and Santa Anna had an army of about 6,500, there were almost no settlers in Tejas that weren't Engish-speaking immigrants that mostly came from Tennessee or other parts of what was then the United States.  Their trading settlement in what is now Santa Fe, NM was not a factor.  The Tejans raised an army of 2,000 and managed to prevail trough a combination of luck, knowledge of the local territory and loyalty of the settlers, long supply lines for Santa Ana's army, and, of course, innovative and aggressive tactics.

For some, but not enough, of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico#Political_developments _ in_the_South_and_North

This is NOT what is going on in Crimea; others have addressed the history and numbers there.  I'm sure that Russians in Russia are firmly confident that Russians everywhere would like to be under Russian control; hey, <irony> ask any Russian immigrant in Europe or the USA. </irony>.  Other votes for secession or annexation have been addressed here; I think we can all agree that such votes do not legitimize violations of territory and sovereignty.

"Those who vote decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."  -Stalin

But history tells us that sovereignty is determined by the reality of control after the fact, not by argument.

Russia has a historical need for buffer territory across the European plains between Moscow and Europe to feel secure.  But the only true security for Moscow is the full normalization of peaceful relations with their immediate neighbors.  By annexing Crimea and possibly part or all of the Ukraine, they are destroying this route to true security for at least a generation, and may just possibly be assuring themselves of yet another European war, eventually.
 
2014-03-16 06:32:29 PM  
Voters have spoken, blah blah blah, get over it, blah blah bah, mandate, am I doing this right?
 
mhd
2014-03-16 06:33:20 PM  

lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....


Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.
 
2014-03-16 06:39:48 PM  

mhd: lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....

Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.


The trouble with Scotland is its full of scots.
 
2014-03-16 06:41:51 PM  

sardonicobserver: There were a lot of independence movements in Mexico following their independence from Spain after 1821.  They got fierce after Santa Anna abrogated the Constitution in 1834.  After containing the one in Yucutan, he turned to the one in Coahuila and the one in Chihuahua, which were quickly handled as well.  The problem with the one in Tejas was that although the territory was very sparsely populated and Santa Anna had an army of about 6,500, there were almost no settlers in Tejas that weren't Engish-speaking immigrants that mostly came from Tennessee or other parts of what was then the United States.  Their trading settlement in what is now Santa Fe, NM was not a factor.  The Tejans raised an army of 2,000 and managed to prevail trough a combination of luck, knowledge of the local territory and loyalty of the settlers, long supply lines for Santa Ana's army, and, of course, innovative and aggressive tactics.

For some, but not enough, of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico#Political_developments _ in_the_South_and_North

This is NOT what is going on in Crimea; others have addressed the history and numbers there.  I'm sure that Russians in Russia are firmly confident that Russians everywhere would like to be under Russian control; hey, <irony> ask any Russian immigrant in Europe or the USA. </irony>.  Other votes for secession or annexation have been addressed here; I think we can all agree that such votes do not legitimize violations of territory and sovereignty.

"Those who vote decide nothing.  Those who count the votes decide everything."  -Stalin

But history tells us that sovereignty is determined by the reality of control after the fact, not by argument.

Russia has a historical need for buffer territory across the European plains between Moscow and Europe to feel secure.  But the only true security for Moscow is the full normalization of peaceful relations with their immediate neighbors.  By annexing Crimea and possibly part or all of the Ukraine, they are destroying this route to true security for at least a generation, and may just possibly be assuring themselves of yet another European war, eventually.


Thanks for the good synopsis. This is also what I dont get about Putin's actions. Everything in this situation screams short term gain, long term loss and Putin has this reputation as a coldly calculating leader. Well, nothing about this seems based in rational calculation. Even the referendum options could have been better to improve their legitimacy.
 
2014-03-16 06:44:44 PM  

Oldiron_79: mhd: lucksi: Great, now Bavaria wants to be their own country as well....

Scotland is next in line.

/And Texas will secede before Bavarian "independence" has any bite beyond drunk arguments by people wearing silly hats.

The trouble with Scotland is its full of scots.


A people conquered by wankers.
 
2014-03-16 06:49:04 PM  

Gig103: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

Good call. 70% even seems high - just try asking folks around the office what they want for takeout.



Apparently, NOT borscht.
 
2014-03-16 06:49:32 PM  

Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.


How nice of you to ask a question and then answer it for him.

How long did you suck your dad's dick until your mom found out?

Oh, 8 years?  Is that why he bought you a new Mustang?
 
2014-03-16 06:50:20 PM  

hi13760: I wonder what happen to the other 7% ?



They're still on the plane.
 
2014-03-16 06:58:48 PM  

TheThighsofTorgo: So what is Putin's endgame, if any?
If he takes another bold step, the global market cuts the legs from under the ruble.
If he backs down, he looks weak.
I don't really see a soft landing for either side right now.


I dont think it makes him look weak.  It makes him look less like a land grabber.
 
2014-03-16 07:01:32 PM  
yeah, and 93% of women in my state want me to be their pimp.  The other 7% just would just be happy to suck my cock.

It's amazing how well voting goes when you get to decide what the numbers will be.

How bad is it in Ukraine that 93% of people in one small, but important part of that country would rather be a part of Russia?

Anyway, I'm loving this.  It's the best news story in a long time.  Not too many people getting killed, RT twisting everything around, Other news sources fumbling around trying to even find Crimea on a map.  Russian troops.  Burning tires.  General mayhem.  This is awesome.

It's almost as good as Breaking Bad.
 
2014-03-16 07:05:20 PM  

uber humper: If we were to threaten Putin, he wouldn't believe it, either


Of course he wouldn't.  We're not actually crazy enough to carry out any substantial threats.   There's no way we'd start another Cold War over an area that has neither strong ties nor strategic interest to us.  We'll do to Russia about the same thing they'd do if we annexed, say, Cuba - complain about it, throw some minor economic sanctions around, and not really do anything more.
 
2014-03-16 07:05:35 PM  

FormlessOne: uber humper: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

It kinda did work out that what when Texas split from Mexico to become it own country, then joined the US

Point
.
.
.
.
..
..
..
..
...
...
...
...
You

It's why I don't view the Alamo as anything but a symbol of national shame, and why so many folks still remind the United States that, yeah, we used to do this, too.



Yeah I remember when the Alamo happened and then the US Army invaded Texas in response and conquered it too. Oh wait that didn't happen.
 
2014-03-16 07:08:24 PM  

Linux_Yes: Doesn't matter what Crimea wants.  it only matters what 'merica wants.


Aha! The Cruex of the problem.

Crimea is not physically a part of Ukraine or Russia.
She is her own place/nation/state.
She is wise to choose the larger and more sane Cohort.

See? lookit, all by herself, she is, and "available!
img.fark.net


No crime here... Happy citizens
img.fark.net

Meh.... donacarea, one step from the grave...life goes on. Yr move...
img.fark.net

Are the USA, inc smoking something? The hell we startn a fight we can,t finish?
 
2014-03-16 07:08:49 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Cyber_Junk: Nemo's Brother: Now Obama can ignore the crossed line he drew in the sand. "This is a good day for democracy" he will say.

Okay Admiral McArchairforce, do tell us what Obama should do and what the future ramafications will be.  Up to and including what the costs in lives, the future financial burdens, and the future stability/instability of the region will be like.

Got no answers?   I thought not.   Now please STFU and sit down.

How nice of you to ask a question and then answer it for him.

How long did you suck your dad's dick until your mom found out?

Oh, 8 years?  Is that why he bought you a new Mustang?


What a dear.  You're the intelligent one in your social circle, aren't you?
 
2014-03-16 07:16:26 PM  
I'm so mad I could kick something.

Crimea is in the middle of this monumental vote to determine if they should be part of Russia or not part of Ukraine. Sure it's a both bad choice that's just evil. A sort of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. Either they are with Russia or not with Ukraine. How that even got put on a referendum.... I struggle to understand.

And here's what just gets my goat:  We live in the "freest nation in the world." We have "the freedoms." And when pray tell do we farking vote? Tuesday. We make it as difficult as possible to get out and vote. If you work a nine to five, you either have to get to voting booth just as it opens or immediately after work.

The only reason I see that it makes any sense is tyranny of the wealthy. Make it easiest for the old and rich to vote, hardest for working poor. Scare the shiat out of the old, so that they vote Republican.

//I hate it so much.
 
2014-03-16 07:20:08 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Gantanamo.... and numerous other "colonies"

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war?
Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?
 
2014-03-16 07:23:07 PM  

FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!


Isn't that what happened with all the southwestern states in the first place?
 
2014-03-16 07:23:48 PM  

Trocadero: Target Builder: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Isn't that about how the US got Texas to start with?

That is exactly how Texas became a US state to begin with. Well, Santa Ana sure helped, too.


Let's cut a deal.  We'll give Texas back to Mexico if Russia gives Crimea back to Ukraine.
 
2014-03-16 07:25:33 PM  
people just don't understand, Russia just needs more breathing room!
 
2014-03-16 07:30:58 PM  

Saturn5: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

But 90% of Americans want strict gun control!


The actual stat is 90% of Americans support expanded background checks which I, as a gun owner, support as well. But if you need to justify your opinion by twisting and misstating facts, go right ahead.
 
2014-03-16 07:36:01 PM  

ornithopter: A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?


We can watch it go up, and we can watch it come down. Should make for some good YouTube clips.
 
2014-03-16 07:37:22 PM  

Pichu0102: geek_mars: ........

...So uh, what does Russia get out of Crimea then?



They've already got lots of vodka...... so this time it's Port.
 
2014-03-16 07:37:47 PM  

oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.


Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?
 
2014-03-16 07:39:23 PM  
Dumb question. I know Poland was quoted as saying early on in this that if shiat went down, they were willing to commit their armed forces to defend Ukraine against the Russians. I haven't been able to find anything about this since. Was this just an overzealous staffer comment or is Poland really feeling their oats on this one?
 
2014-03-16 07:40:04 PM  

GoldSpider: "At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...



img.fark.net
 
2014-03-16 07:40:18 PM  

gfid: oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.

Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?


Ras-Putin
 
2014-03-16 07:40:58 PM  

gfid: oukewldave: Except #1 isn't comparable.  People living in Crimea used to be Russian until 1954.  It would be more like Great Britain moving into Hong Kong to reclaim it from China.

Why does everyone think the history of Crimea being part of Ukraine starts in 1954?  The history of that area goes back thousands of years and it has always been fought over.

What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?

Well?


Fine, then give it back to the Mongols.
 
2014-03-16 07:42:15 PM  
yeah this referendum is about as that creepy guy with the van marked free candy.

Putin had a chance to stop this nonsense now he will have to pay the price.   I hope he has good life insurance cause his rich buddies will probably ice him when they begin to lose a shiat tn of money.
 
2014-03-16 07:42:47 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: This is also what I dont get about Putin's actions. Everything in this situation screams short term gain, long term loss and Putin has this reputation as a coldly calculating leader. Well, nothing about this seems based in rational calculation. Even the referendum options could have been better to improve their legitimacy.


He is an ex KGB officer, so conspiracy thinking is something which comes natural to him. That might explain his lack of ratio. And when Merkel says he's lost touch with reality, he probably has.
 
2014-03-16 07:43:14 PM  

JSTACAT: FormlessOne: So, is this how it works? Let's see if that works here! Wouldn't that be grand!?

1. Texans move en masse to Mexico, but only to the Chihuahua and Coahuila states.
2. The United States claims that pro-Texas Mexicans are being threatened.
3. The United States marches unmarked troops and equipment across the U.S.-Mexico border into those two states.
4. The United States justifies the occupation by claiming to be there solely to ensure the safety of pro-Texas Mexicans. We lock up Mexican troops in their own bases, and pro-Texas supporters beat the ever-loving crap out of any native Mexican who protests the occupation.
5. When other governing bodies, such as the EU, complain about the clearly illegal occupation, the United States brings up decades of illegal occupations around the world.
6. Meanwhile, U.S. supporters wage a viral war for hearts and minds on the Internet.
7. The pro-Texas Mexicans construct their own interim government, and then hold a "vote" as to whether the Chihuahua & Coahuila states should become part of Texas.
8. The vote, stunningly, is 93% in favor of joining Texas, as most native Mexicans have gotten the hell out of Chihuahua & Coahuila.

That sounds legit!

Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Gantanamo.... and numerous other "colonies"

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war?
Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?


whew, I was worried reading your post that you would leave off one of these: reich, Nazi, Zionist Coup, US EU Nationalist plot or (my favorite) Nationalist Nazi Zionist Coup backed by the US to overthrow Ukraine and Russia.  However you didn't, so full Russian propaganda corps. medal to you comrade.

I am with you comrade.  In fact I think the POTUS should go on air and tell the Chinese that we would be happy to help them protect those ethnic Chinese citizens in Siberia.  The Washington Post is rife with reports of Russian atrocities there.  Hong Kong dailies have pictures of the Russian governor saluting a Nazi flag for crying out loud.  China needs to protect those citizens.
 
2014-03-16 07:47:05 PM  

Dangl1ng: I'm so mad I could kick something.

Crimea is in the middle of this monumental vote to determine if they should be part of Russia or not part of Ukraine. Sure it's a both bad choice that's just evil. A sort of doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. Either they are with Russia or not with Ukraine. How that even got put on a referendum.... I struggle to understand.

And here's what just gets my goat:  We live in the "freest nation in the world." We have "the freedoms." And when pray tell do we farking vote? Tuesday. We make it as difficult as possible to get out and vote. If you work a nine to five, you either have to get to voting booth just as it opens or immediately after work.

The only reason I see that it makes any sense is tyranny of the wealthy. Make it easiest for the old and rich to vote, hardest for working poor. Scare the shiat out of the old, so that they vote Republican.

//I hate it so much.

[Me Too]

Well, the old know they are soon gonna die & they figger, everyone else ought to do the same.
Our votes count for nothing... common knowledge for many decades.
 
2014-03-16 07:56:07 PM  

JaMorg: ...............

Remember, this is a 10,000 sq mile island... Is it worth all the hoopla, stock crashes, tension... maybe war? Oh, and this is their democratic choice....
And, America is no longer a democracy.
Its a Reich, Right?

whew, I was worried reading your post that you would leave off one of these: reich, Nazi, Zionist Coup, US EU Nationalist plot



Guess What?
img.fark.net
You'll all get over it. :)
 
2014-03-16 07:58:04 PM  

JSTACAT: Well, the old know they are soon gonna die & they figger, everyone else ought to do the same.


Sounds good, Cletus.
 
2014-03-16 08:04:24 PM  

brandent: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

that's an unusually ignorant position even for Fark.  You do realize the ethnic makeup and history of Crimea right?  I knew you did.


Well you're certainly right. I must admit ignorance here. I wasn't aware the Crimea was 95 percent Russian. Nor did I know that Russia had the unique ability to initiate elections in portions of other independent countries to "validate" their otherwise illegal activity.

Interesting. Hmm... wonder which one they'll do next.
 
2014-03-16 08:06:09 PM  

BigNumber12: GoldSpider: "At the United Nations on Saturday, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal."

Well, at least the UN tried...


[participant prize image]


This is what I don't get: with the UN, everybody is a participant. It's not a separate entity you can merrily antagonize. Lots of Americans like to gloat when the UN fails at something, but isn't the US part of it? The UN's lack of power only shows how troublesome humans are. It existence shows how far we've nonetheless managed to get.
 
2014-03-16 08:07:58 PM  
With as rigged as this election was I'm surprised the result wasn't 104.1% in favor.
 
2014-03-16 08:08:18 PM  
yeah, this vote wasn't on the up and up.  i imagine 93% of lgtb also voted to leave for russia.
 
2014-03-16 08:08:27 PM  
Ukraine is the worst city in Asia.
 
2014-03-16 08:10:54 PM  

violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.


Cede territory which was handed to Ukraine, against the wishes of the inhabitants, by a dictator a mere sixty years ago?
 
2014-03-16 08:11:03 PM  

sheep snorter: I read that Todd Palin is getting together a vote for Alaska to rejoin Russia too.

/For you morans: Alaska was once part of Russia, before being gifted to the U.S.A.


If you're intending to educate morans you should probably not imply Sewards folly was a gift. Mkay?
 
2014-03-16 08:14:09 PM  

FormlessOne: So, yeah, #1 is still rather comparable, as the vast majority of those claiming "pro-Russian" weren't born until well after that canard.


Nobody in Ireland was alive when Cromwell was around, but they still complain about him. People, eh?
 
2014-03-16 08:17:58 PM  

Ilmarinen: This is what I don't get: with the UN, everybody is a participant. It's not a separate entity you can merrily antagonize. Lots of Americans like to gloat when the UN fails at something, but isn't the US part of it?


Considering the fact that we fund 22% of the UN's budget - more than twice that of the next major contributor - I'd say that yes, we're "part of it."

I think that a lot of U.N.-skewering - certainly mine - is a form of gallows humor. "This dysfunctional piece of crap, where the major powers can simply veto resolutions aimed at them away, is the best that humanity can manage."
 
2014-03-16 08:28:04 PM  

iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.


Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?
 
2014-03-16 08:28:40 PM  

orbister: violentsalvation: So pack your sh*t and GTFO. Maybe the rest of Ukraine doesn't want to cede territory to their bully neighbor.

Cede territory which was handed to Ukraine, against the wishes of the inhabitants, by a dictator a mere sixty years ago?


Odd, I seem to recall the Tartars not liking the Russians much.

Ooooh, you mean the "inhabitants" brought in to take over the homes of the victims of genocide. Well OF COURSE their wishes are paramount! Good on you for taking the moral high road and finding the real victims here.
 
2014-03-16 08:31:56 PM  
Did the chads come off of the ballots in favor of joining Russia, like the one's used in the US Election in Florida that automatically voted for Bush?
 
2014-03-16 08:34:09 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: It's only democracy when they vote the way we want them to vote.


As usual, even the self-hating Americans think this is all about the United States. It's what it is INDEPENDENTLY of what America thinks about it, so stop pretending this is all about what the U.S. does or does not think.

It's not democracy because it's not farking democracy even were the U.S. to be removed from this earth by a giant cheese-grater.
 
2014-03-16 08:36:32 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

CNN showed footage of people voting twice while the "observers" sat and watched.

Guess Crimea is like Russia Chicago after all.

 
2014-03-16 08:52:06 PM  

zimbomba63: iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.

Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?


Besides not putting out a good album since "Astra"?
 
2014-03-16 08:52:25 PM  
And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.
 
2014-03-16 08:59:23 PM  

gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.


To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.
 
2014-03-16 09:00:12 PM  

gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.


You know who else expressed jealousy over how easy bigotry was in the US?
 
2014-03-16 09:01:09 PM  

TommyDeuce: gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.

To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.


Maybe so, but fretting over the fate of Russians in Crimea is like fretting over the fate of white guys who have been squatting on Native American land.
 
2014-03-16 09:05:14 PM  
I just want to ask Romney if Putin is still better than Obama.
 
2014-03-16 09:12:57 PM  

Ricardo Klement: TommyDeuce: gfid: And another thing.  They keep saying shiat like Crimea is mostly made up of "ethnic Russians".  WTF is an ethnic Russian and why does that even matter?

Somehow, I don't think it's a big deal.  I live in the US, but I could move to Canada where they also speak English (except for the Frenchy parts).  I would blend in very well.  I could maybe even become a Canadian citizen.  Would I think of myself as ethnically American?  No, I'd just be another white guy living in Canada.

These "ethnic Russians" who have been living in Crimea for all of their lives are Crimean now.  It wouldn't matter if their great great grandparents were Lenin or the Czar.  You were born in Crimea or maybe you've lived there for 50+ years..  You're not Russian anymore.

I really don't even see any difference.  It's all former Soviet Union people anyway so I lump them all together as ethnically Soviet.

Racism and bigotry are so simple in the US.  It's all about black vs. white vs. brown, but in places like China and the former Soviet Union and the Middle East and even South America it's much more complicated.  It breaks down on very subtle definitions of ethnicity and religion and it's farking stupid.

To be fair, it's pretty stupid when we do it here too.

Maybe so, but fretting over the fate of Russians in Crimea is like fretting over the fate of white guys who have been squatting on Native American land.


My wife has family who are Winnebago - based on past history, they probably aim rather then fret.

/Not sure how it relates to Crimea
//CFamilyB?
 
2014-03-16 09:14:31 PM  
biatch, whine, make sarcastic comments and complain.

Either NATO gets involved or it tosses Ukraine under the bus -- what it boils down to is a European problem.  Secession and becoming part of another confederation has happened through history, but usually those trying to secede get a good stomping from those they are trying to secede from.  No shiat Putin had his hand up to his elbow in this, but the fact is a chunk of the Ukraine's population wanted to buddy up with their cultural brethren, and there was a whole lot of shiat that was going down before this that would have contributed to this. (The democratically elected leader was OUSTED by a coup, remember?)

Do you want to go to war over this?  You.  Parked in front of your computer playing pundit or armchair general.  This wouldn't be Crimea War 2, but World War 3.  Brush up on your history, namely the devastation caused by Allied bombings in Europe during the last World War, and the atomic bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima in Japan.  Just because you are across the Atlantic doesn't mean an ICBM can't make your day the worst one in your life.  Or what would be the last few seconds of it,

I've still got some contacts in the military and government agencies, and what I've gleaned from them means the next six months are going to be ones of massive sphincter tightening,  But their are plans in motion to deal with this situation.  You may not get the instant gratification of a video game, but Putin is going to feel the squeeze like he has never felt it before,  Sanctions, rearming of every country and state around Russia, no more slap and tickle international policy but the good old-fashioned "we are going to fark you over at every opportunity" strategy they used during the last cold war.  Putin was left alone because he was the only one who could keep that corrupt mess that Russia turned into together without it turning into a totally destabilized mess with nuclear weapons, but now he's going to get the time-out of his life.

It is just going to take time.  That, and Nato and other European and Asian AND Middle-East states need that to get their shiat together just in case someone decides to deviate from the playbook.  Let Russia babysit the Crimea.  Let the Russians there celebrate whatever they think they accomplished.  It will just make it easier to bomb them into submission it if comes to that.

Six months.  It will be one hell of a ride, but just enjoy it instead of blaming everyone that can't do shiat about it and salivating over the idea of MAD.  That is Mutually Assured Destruction, if you forgot the fact that there are still enough nukes to kill off the entire population of the planet several times over.
 
2014-03-16 09:15:19 PM  

TommyDeuce: zimbomba63: iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.

Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?

Besides not putting out a good album since "Astra"?


Wait, you think that's what's causing the problem? Ukraine and Russia should have a "Battle of the Bands" for the Crimea.
 
2014-03-16 09:16:54 PM  

Zombie DJ: Not going to pretend to be an expert, but I was talking to a good friends wife who recently came from Russia and she says this is really what most of them actually want. To be with Russia.
/2 cents


Yes. But people coming from Ukraine, the country losing territory to Russia, are saying the opposite. I don't know anyone from the Crimean region though.
 
2014-03-16 09:18:52 PM  

jaerik: The only options available on the Crimean secession vote were the following:

"Do you support joining Crimea with the Russian Federation as a citizen of the Russian Federation?"'
"Do you support restoration of 1992 Crimean Constitution and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

There was no vote option to remain a non-autonomous section of Ukraine, and as such, anyone that wasn't supporting some form of independence boycotted and stayed home.


i.imgur.com

So many people in this thread talking out their asses on a subject they know nothing about.
 
2014-03-16 09:19:26 PM  
Exit polling in Crimea shows 93% of voters in favor of leaving Ukraine for Russia.

Then by all means, they should move to Russia as soon as possible.
 
2014-03-16 09:23:56 PM  

Saturn5: Ambivalence: You can't get 90% of a population to agree to ANYTHING without some threat or fiddling with numbers.

They should have aimed for 70something%.  Still an overwhelming mandate without that "dictatorial" feel to it.

But 90% of Americans want strict gun control!


Only if by "strict gun control" you mean "background checks on all gun purchases". And I think the percentage is slightly smaller, like high 80s.
 
2014-03-16 09:31:55 PM  
You really gotta hand it to American newsmedia.

So many Americans clamoring for an intervention when they barely know a damn thing about the place.
 
2014-03-16 09:38:44 PM  

ornithopter: BigNumber12: geek_mars: As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Until Russia completes replacement infrastructure across the Kerch Strait and promptly tells Ukraine to fark off with their demands.

The upside to all of this is that we may see a fancy new bridge in the world, hurriedly constructed.

A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?

[www.ndtv.com image 360x270] [sharing.thedenverchannel.com image 640x450]

/would not trust my life to that bridge


derpicdn.net
 
2014-03-16 09:44:32 PM  
Wow, just wow..
There is enough Putin bashing going on in here that a stranger to the planet would think he is -your- president.

Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Putin is also a spokesman for -his- govt. and -his- govt is doing whatever it takes to keep the peace in their house?
Ukraine has some deep money problems, Add to that, the EU wants a piece of their action... a big one, incl a huge membership fee.
That's just one of the problems aggravating a population that is very hot headed by nature and by history.

Anyone here want to try to govern the CCCP?

EU would like to bring in the VAT, change their laws, force immigration changes in a nation far removed from their own lands. etc.

The US recently joined EU a lot deeper with tariff lifting... What will the US do when the contents of that sh*t sandwich are revealed?

A lot of the mystery would clarify itself by one little data point added.

CCCP is still the same corporation it used to be;
Just like AT&T is the same old Ma Bell, in different clothes.

Why is the US inc continually meddling in other nations' affairs?
Could it be that its just a power grab?
Check history, the answer is obvious.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama is -our- President... so why not blame him for all of it?
That would be unreasonable, childish...
How about we stop blaming someone else's president for everything,
its childish and unreasonable.

Meanwhile, the stock markets are going to nosedive... and other things will go wrong, then the rich will seize more from the underclass, in all the confusion.
 
2014-03-16 10:04:10 PM  
John McCain... the gift that keeps on giving.

www.koolrpix.com
 
2014-03-16 10:06:04 PM  
 
2014-03-16 10:57:17 PM  

gfid: What gave Catherine the (cough) Great the right to take over it in the first place?


Her cavalry?
 
2014-03-16 11:10:22 PM  
So, when should I actually start getting worried?
 
2014-03-16 11:11:08 PM  

zimbomba63: TommyDeuce: zimbomba63: iron de havilland: iron de havilland: puffy999: This is actually a problem with leadership across the world.

Occasionally, guys spring up who NEED to be taken out. Putin needed to be taken out before he even made it into office.

Yeah, unfortunately he managed to entrench himself in the government of Russia before that happened.

We can all enjoy the schadenfreude of the idea that there is probably a Lavrentiy Beria close to him. Hopefully, Putin will reap what he has sown.

uber humper: If they stood up to Putin, with threats of attack, Putin would back down, be make a laughing stock at home, and forced out.

I wish that could happen, but there are too many European investments in Russia, particularly in terms of gas and all that.

The farkwit deserves to be knocked down a peg or two. I hope it happens, but it may not.

/And I'm quite aware of the irony of my posts in the Fred Phelps thread compared to my thoughts on Putin.
//People are complicated and hypocritical, aren't they?

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

something something land war in Asia something.

Gosh, what does Asia have to do with this?

Besides not putting out a good album since "Astra"?

Wait, you think that's what's causing the problem? Ukraine and Russia should have a "Battle of the Bands" for the Crimea.


Round 1 : Asia vs Europe

On deck : Japan and America
 
2014-03-16 11:12:12 PM  

ElPollotonto: So, when should I actually start getting worried?


Depends, you got money in the Russian Stock Market?

/If so, your answer is "over a week ago"
 
2014-03-16 11:39:19 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


It's really sad that in a world with 6 billion people we can only solve one problem at a time and that any problem that isn't the worst problem must be ignored indefinitely until the worst problem is solved.   That's why I don't worry about my kid getting enough food to eat.  I mean sheesh.  It's not like he's got flies on him yet.   Until all the kids with flies on them in Africa are fed, how can I worry about my kid?
 
2014-03-16 11:58:01 PM  

JSTACAT: Wow, just wow..
There is enough Putin bashing going on in here that a stranger to the planet would think he is -your- president.

Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Putin is also a spokesman for -his- govt. and -his- govt is doing whatever it takes to keep the peace in their house?
Ukraine has some deep money problems, Add to that, the EU wants a piece of their action... a big one, incl a huge membership fee.
That's just one of the problems aggravating a population that is very hot headed by nature and by history.

Anyone here want to try to govern the CCCP?

EU would like to bring in the VAT, change their laws, force immigration changes in a nation far removed from their own lands. etc.

The US recently joined EU a lot deeper with tariff lifting... What will the US do when the contents of that sh*t sandwich are revealed?

A lot of the mystery would clarify itself by one little data point added.

CCCP is still the same corporation it used to be;
Just like AT&T is the same old Ma Bell, in different clothes.

Why is the US inc continually meddling in other nations' affairs?
Could it be that its just a power grab?
Check history, the answer is obvious.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama is -our- President... so why not blame him for all of it?
That would be unreasonable, childish...
How about we stop blaming someone else's president for everything,
its childish and unreasonable.

Meanwhile, the stock markets are going to nosedive... and other things will go wrong, then the rich will seize more from the underclass, in all the confusion.


9.5/10.  You actually had me for a minute there. Bravo!
 
2014-03-17 12:18:56 AM  

greentea1985: That's actually pretty close to how the US got Texas and Hawaii. In the case of Texas, Mexico invited immigrants from the fledgling US, who came in droves. Mexico felt over-whelmed, stopped immigration, and tried to strip away rights from the new arrivals, who kept on coming. The Texans rebelled and got their own country, then chose to join the US. In the case of Hawaii, US citizens started moving there in order to start plantations for a variety of products including sugarcane. The planters forced the King of Hawaii to sign an unfair constitution, then overthrew his successor when she tried to reduce the strength of the planters. The planters petitioned the US to make Hawaii a US territority and Hawaii eventually became a state.



Thank you for remembering how Hawaii came to be part of the US.  It was one of the most blatant abuses of an independent people in the service of "manifest destiny".

www.abebooks.com

^ "Unfamiliar Fishes" is a great book, by the way.
 
2014-03-17 01:46:18 AM  

JSTACAT: Wow, just wow..
There is enough Putin bashing going on in here that a stranger to the planet would think he is -your- president.

Did it ever occur to you that Mr. Putin is also a spokesman for -his- govt. and -his- govt is doing whatever it takes to keep the peace in their house?


Oh wow - no, that never occurred to me, not even when watching RT America.

It seems to me he is doing everything he can to insure there is no peace.  This will get nasty,


Ukraine has some deep money problems, Add to that, the EU wants a piece of their action... a big one, incl a huge membership fee.
That's just one of the problems aggravating a population that is very hot headed by nature and by history.

Anyone here want to try to govern the CCCP?


If Putin were here, he might raise his hand, but the Soviet Union is dead.  If and when Putin ever dies he will be the last of the KGB to ever have a hand in Russian politics.

EU would like to bring in the VAT, change their laws, force immigration changes in a nation far removed from their own lands. etc.

The US recently joined EU a lot deeper with tariff lifting... What will the US do when the contents of that sh*t sandwich are revealed?


The interesting thing about the relationship between the US and the EU is that we're 2 completely separate entities.  Okay, we have a lot of trade and the whole NATO thing, but economically?  I don't know how the EU would benefit or not from closer relations to Ukraine.  As a US citizen though, it really doesn't mean shiat to a tree.

It sort of sounds like Russia is telling Ukraine not to make friends with the EU because Putin said sol.

A lot of the mystery would clarify itself by one little data point added.

CCCP is still the same corporation it used to be;
Just like AT&T is the same old Ma Bell, in different clothes.

Why is the US inc continually meddling in other nations' affairs?
Could it be that its just a power grab?
Check history, the answer is obvious.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama is -our- President... so why not blame him for all of it?
That would be unreasonable, childish...
How about we stop blaming someone else's president for everything,
its childish and unreasonable.

Meanwhile, the stock markets are going to nosedive... and other things will go wrong, then the rich will seize more from the underclass, in all the confusion.
 
Esn
2014-03-17 09:46:18 AM  
I don't think anyone cares, but...
Here's the view from the other side (bonus: not from government journalists)

The view over there is so radically different from the view over here, there's very little common ground. Now you might say "those people are just influenced by propaganda", are you so sure? This is their backyard, after all. Many of them have relatives there who they can call. Maybe, just maybe, they understand what's going on better than you think.

The propaganda in the West has been thick and heavy as well.
 
2014-03-17 10:13:43 AM  

uber humper: EngineerAU: FormlessOne: Actually, China's largely stayed out of this conversation. They did, after all, abstain during the Security Council semaphore. China's more interested to see how this shakes out, especially as they have their own territorial turmoil with which to deal.

If China is playing the long game, they stand to gain since their population is booming while Russia's is declining. There are parts of Russia that are already majority ethnic Chinese. All they have to do is wait for Russia to continue to decline while the Chinese population grows inside Russia's borders.

China is facing a population bomb.  With the one child law for a couple/few generations they are reaching a point where there will be less than 2 workers per retiree in less than 20 years


It's the reason why they recently loosened the one-child only law.

Luckily the "one-kid only" wasn't a hard and fast rule across China, rural families on farms where allowed 3 kids and that's basically what is saving their asses now. The well-off and connected also where able to just pay the fines and have more kids.
 
2014-03-17 10:47:47 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: ornithopter: BigNumber12: geek_mars: As I understand it, Crimea is very dependent on Ukraine. Their land is desert-like and low on resources. They get something like 80% of their water and electricity from Ukraine, and it all comes in via that narrow bit that connects the peninsula to the mainland. So, Crimea joins the Russian Federation and Ukraine stops providing them with power and water since Crimea is no longer part of their nation. Crimea won't be able to afford to purchase water and power, so they'll turn to the Russian Federation.

The Russian Federation will have to negotiate terms to purchase or lease the power and water, and Ukraine can charge them outrageous sums for the water and power and maintenance on the pipes/lines and even the land that they run on. They can also demand concessions on Russian oil and gas, which they can then sell to Europe, beating Russia's price. Finally, because fark Putin, that's why, they can charge a hefty "you interfered with our sovereignty and stole Crimea" surcharge.

Until Russia completes replacement infrastructure across the Kerch Strait and promptly tells Ukraine to fark off with their demands.

The upside to all of this is that we may see a fancy new bridge in the world, hurriedly constructed.

A fancy new [anything], hurriedly constructed by Russia?

[www.ndtv.com image 360x270] [sharing.thedenverchannel.com image 640x450]

/would not trust my life to that bridge

[derpicdn.net image 850x478]


It needs to hurry. I have to make my IRA contribution by next month.
 
2014-03-17 11:54:37 AM  

Dangl1ng: And here's what just gets my goat:  We live in the "freest nation in the world." We have "the freedoms." And when pray tell do we farking vote? Tuesday. We make it as difficult as possible to get out and vote. If you work a nine to five, you either have to get to voting booth just as it opens or immediately after work.

The only reason I see that it makes any sense is tyranny of the wealthy. Make it easiest for the old and rich to vote, hardest for working poor. Scare the shiat out of the old, so that they vote Republican.


I work 9-5 and find it very easy to vote.  Maybe the problem is you.
 
2014-03-17 12:03:19 PM  

zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!


I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.
 
2014-03-17 12:04:58 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Why do we even care? About a million people will die in Africa, South America and Asia this year from insects, but we can give one shiat about that.


People are not only being told what to care about, but also what their opinion on the matter should be.
 
2014-03-17 12:10:10 PM  

spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.


Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?
 
2014-03-17 12:29:53 PM  

Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?


The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.
 
2014-03-17 12:33:54 PM  
Is there any evidence of election fraud?

I don't believe either side of this story, US or Russian.
 
2014-03-17 12:34:21 PM  

spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?

The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.


Still a valid election, nothing to see here, if Russian soldiers were conducting exit polls?
 
2014-03-17 12:50:57 PM  

Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?

The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.

Still a valid election, nothing to see here, if Russian soldiers were conducting exit polls?


That shouldn't influence the results.

If armed soldiers are conducting exit polls, then that's a flaw in the methology. I wouldn't conduct them like that, and I have stood for 2 exits polls myself. When conducting the exit polls it would be important to seem impartial, because you'll just have people who refuse to answer you if they voted for something they assume is "wrong".

How that works out is that you have 95.5% of the people that answered being correct, but you're not accounting for people who refuse to answer because they dislike you. If you're strongly signaling that you're partual to one result, people who voted otherwise will overwelmingly not wish to speak to you.
 
2014-03-17 01:11:10 PM  

spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?

The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.

Still a valid election, nothing to see here, if Russian soldiers were conducting exit polls?

That shouldn't influence the results.

If armed soldiers are conducting exit polls, then that's a flaw in the methology. I wouldn't conduct them like that, and I have stood for 2 exits polls myself. When conducting the exit polls it would be important to seem impartial, because you'll just have people who refuse to answer you if they voted for something they assume is "wrong".

How that works out is that you have 95.5% of the people that answered being correct, but you're not accounting for people who refuse to answer because they dislike you. If you're strongly signaling that you're partual to one result, people who voted otherwise will overwelmingly not wish to speak to you.


Or even show up at all, if it's armed Russians.

But, then, 80% showed up, right? And even though Tartars and Ukrainians make up over 40% of the population of Crimea, I'm sure that the vast majority of them still voted for union with Russia.
 
2014-03-17 01:22:32 PM  

Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?

The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.

Still a valid election, nothing to see here, if Russian soldiers were conducting exit polls?

That shouldn't influence the results.

If armed soldiers are conducting exit polls, then that's a flaw in the methology. I wouldn't conduct them like that, and I have stood for 2 exits polls myself. When conducting the exit polls it would be important to seem impartial, because you'll just have people who refuse to answer you if they voted for something they assume is "wrong".

How that works out is that you have 95.5% of the people that answered being correct, but you're not accounting for people who refuse to answer because they dislike you. If you're strongly signaling that you're partual to one result, people who voted otherwise will overwelmingly not wish to speak to you.

Or even show up at all, if it's armed Russians.

But, then, 80% showed up, right? And even though Tartars and Ukrainians make up over 40% of the population of Crimea, I ...



You won't do much good posting with Spawn.  I have him marked as a defender of slavery.  Seriously doubt Spawn will listen to reason, logic, common sense, etc.

This morning NPR was reporting some voters were using multiple ballots while the armed observers watched and did nothing.  That could just be the Western media making shiat up again, though.  We should see what RT has to say about the whole thing.  We can totally trust Russian news sources, since they're known for integrity.
 
2014-03-17 01:43:23 PM  

Esn: I don't think anyone cares, but...
Here's the view from the other side (bonus: not from government journalists)

The view over there is so radically different from the view over here, there's very little common ground. Now you might say "those people are just influenced by propaganda", are you so sure? This is their backyard, after all. Many of them have relatives there who they can call. Maybe, just maybe, they understand what's going on better than you think.

The propaganda in the West has been thick and heavy as well.


This is one of those times when being so close to the issue makes them FAR more biased, less able to analyze things objectively. Their leaders have whipped them up into a fine frenzy of nationalism, and it's their country that stands to gain directly by capturing Crimea. And the people they're "calling" are just as biased as they are.

Their Understanding what's going on doesn't make it any more legitimate or any less a conquest by forced demographic change and intimidation.
 
2014-03-17 01:55:19 PM  

Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: Ricardo Klement: spawn73: zamboni: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 246x205]
/hot, hot image
It's pretty sad when Kim Jong Un's election results are more of a surprise than this one. Other dictatorships at least attempt to appear legitimate, as laughable as they seem.

Well, Putin. You got your mandate with an election you staged. Annex away!

I'm surprised that it was 95.5% actually, but I gather either the Ukrainians boycotted it in higher numbers, or they actually want to leave the failed state that is Ukraine.

/if you're insinuating election fraud, you're out of touch.

Really?

How do you feel about it once you find out turn-out was over 80%?

The same. I'm slightly surprised that Ukrainians voted for ditching Ukraine, but not terrible so given how farked Ukraine is.

Even as they're propped up financially by the EU etc., I wonder how long that'll last if they continue on the road for failed state with their already failed democracy, headed for total anarchy with roaming nazis in the streets.

Still a valid election, nothing to see here, if Russian soldiers were conducting exit polls?

That shouldn't influence the results.

If armed soldiers are conducting exit polls, then that's a flaw in the methology. I wouldn't conduct them like that, and I have stood for 2 exits polls myself. When conducting the exit polls it would be important to seem impartial, because you'll just have people who refuse to answer you if they voted for something they assume is "wrong".

How that works out is that you have 95.5% of the people that answered being correct, but you're not accounting for people who refuse to answer because they dislike you. If you're strongly signaling that you're partual to one result, people who voted otherwise will overwelmingly not wish to speak to you.

Or even show up at all, if it's armed Russians.

But, then, 80% showed up, right? And even though Tartars and Ukrainians make up over 40% of the population of Crimea, ...


Maybe we don't have an accurate view of what the alligiance of the Ukrainians are in Crimea. Myself I always wondered why it was accepted that Tartars disliked Russians, and for some reason loved Ukrainians.

Yeah, they had it rough under Stalin. But he's dead. The nazis are very much a thing though. Likely we're seeing that given the absense of a "lets join Tartarstan" option, they're choosing between a country that isn't completely farked up, and one that is (that's Ukraine in this context).
 
2014-03-17 03:11:24 PM  

spawn73: Maybe we don't have an accurate view of what the alligiance of the Ukrainians are in Crimea. Myself I always wondered why it was accepted that Tartars disliked Russians, and for some reason loved Ukrainians.

Yeah, they had it rough under Stalin. But he's dead. The nazis are very much a thing though. Likely we're seeing that given the absense of a "lets join Tartarstan" option, they're choosing between a country that isn't completely farked up, and one that is (that's Ukraine in this context).


Well, Russia just snubbed the voting results. Putin announced they're recognizing Crimea as an independent nation but not as part of Russia, rejecting the people's "sovereign voice."
 
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