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(Fox News)   Police departments oppose the use of body cameras on their officers ... Because of what might NOT be recorded   (foxnews.com) divider line 161
    More: Ironic, high-definition video, Rialto, data storage device, United States Department of Justice, cameras  
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12411 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2014 at 3:10 PM (22 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-16 05:37:50 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threat.

The point of the story is th ...


For argument's sake, lets say the shiney object is a gun.  The police have video evidence that a suspect pulled a gun on a cop, put then gun back into his pocket, started walking away, and then was shot in the back by cops.  You, a cop, think that this video justifies the shooting.

Do I live in crazy town, or isn't it pretty farked up to shoot someone in the back when they don't have a weapon in their hand?  If he was reaching for the gun or aiming the gun I could understand, but not once he put the gun away.  This is even more farked up if we drop the assumption that it was a gun.  In your story you don't say it is a gun, knife, or even a weapon of any sort, just a shiny object.  The fact that the identity of the "shiny object" was omitted from your story tells me that the guy was likely shot in the back for pointing his Zippo lighter or iphone at a cop.

/hint, this is why  civies don't trust cops
 
2014-03-16 05:41:11 PM

RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threat.

The point of the story is th ...

For argument's sake, lets say the shiney object is a gun.  The police have video evidence that a suspect pulled a gun on a cop, put then gun back into his pocket, started walking away, and then was shot in the back by cops.  You, a cop, think that this video justifies the shooting.

Do I live in crazy town, or isn't it pretty farked up to shoot someone in the back when they don't have a weapon in their hand?  If he was reaching for the gun or aiming the gun I could understand, but not once he put the gun away.  This is even more farked up if we drop the assumption that it was a gun.  In your story you don't say it is a gun, knife, or even a weapon of any sort, just a shiny object.  The fact that the identity of the "shiny object" was omitted from your story tells me that the guy was likely shot in the back for pointing his Zippo lighter or iphone at a cop.

/hint, this is why  civies don't trust cops


Annnnnd this is why you would be dead in the streets.

If I pull a gun on you and point it to your face, do you think that I hae the means to kill you, or harm someone else?
 
2014-03-16 05:44:20 PM
Approves
i1280.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-16 05:46:37 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...


I thought once the immediate threat is gone, there's no need to shoot?
 
2014-03-16 05:48:59 PM
OK more effort.
i1280.photobucket.com
 
2014-03-16 05:49:54 PM

johne3819: SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...

I thought once the immediate threat is gone, there's no need to shoot?


He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.

But the point I was making earlier is that cops deal in areas of gray, not black and white. While you may look at it one way, I can look at it another.
 
2014-03-16 05:52:30 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: OK more effort.
[i1280.photobucket.com image 480x270]


maybe more analogous:

I've been recording all day with a low battery.  My camera may or may not be recording for the next minute.  Do you feel lucky punk?

I know what you're thinking. "Did he turn off his lapel pin or not?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
 
2014-03-16 05:53:52 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: Annnnnd this is why you would be dead in the streets.


I'm betting you read Grossman's works like gospel.

He's part of the problem. His sheepdog mentality does harm to the idea of comunity policing

You aren't being hunted actively, your trainers just don't want you complacent.
 
2014-03-16 05:54:32 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: johne3819: SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effe ...



And hence the need for it to be recorded, so it can be reviewed and determined if in fact the LEO acted appropriately
 
2014-03-16 05:56:06 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: johne3819: SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...

I thought once the immediate threat is gone, there's no need to shoot?

He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.

But the point I was making earlier is that cops deal in areas of gray, not black and white. While you may look at it one way, I can look at it another.


So if someone pointed a gun at me then turned around to walk away and put the gun away, you're telling me that anyone who capped said guy would not be arrested...thsts what you are saying?

If so...ill be first to say: you are full of shiat.

Anyone else but a cop wpuld be in jail...and THAT fact is at the very root of the problem: non-cop does same thing a cop does, the officer walks..the other person goes to prison.

The police shoukd be held to the exact same standards as anyone else, and should have non-cop oversight panels.
 
2014-03-16 05:56:38 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...


If the man actually was a threat, you would be dead in the streets since he had time to pull the "shiny object", aim the "shiny object", put the "shiny object" away, and turn around before your buddy shot him.
 
2014-03-16 05:57:45 PM

RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...

If the man actually was a threat, you would be dead in the streets since he had time to pull the "shiny object", aim the "shiny object", put the "shiny object" away, and turn around before your buddy shot him.


Exactly what i thougjt when i read it.
 
2014-03-16 06:00:30 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threat.

The point of the story is th ...

For argument's sake, lets say the shiney object is a gun.  The police have video evidence that a suspect pulled a gun on a cop, put then gun back into his pocket, started walking away, and then was shot in the back by cops.  You, a cop, think that this video justifies the shooting.

Do I live in crazy town, or isn't it pretty farked up to shoot someone in the back when they don't have a weapon in their hand?  If he was reaching for the gun or aiming the gun I could understand, but not once he put the gun away.  This is even more farked up if we drop the assumption that it was a gun.  In your story you don't say it is a gun, knife, or even a weapon of any sort, just a shiny object.  The fact that the identity of the "shiny object" was omitted from your story tells me that the guy was likely shot in the back for pointing his Zippo lighter or iphone at a cop.

/hint, this is why  civies don't trust cops

Annnnnd this is why you would be dead in the streets.

If I pull a gun on you and point it to your face, do you think that I hae the means to kill you, or harm someone else?


Yeah..because soneone intending to kill you pulls a "shiny object" then turns around and walks away while putting said "shiny object" away?

THEN your cop friend caps him? After he turned and walked away...after he put the "threat" away?

Sounds like manslaughter to me.
 
2014-03-16 06:02:08 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.


Surely you're trolling. 

Advocating lethal force on someone who is not putting your life in jeopardy still 

If he was going to shoot he wouldn't have lowered his weapon and turned his back.
 
2014-03-16 06:03:17 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: But the point I was making earlier is that cops deal in areas of gray, not black and white. While you may look at it one way, I can look at it another.


No, they don't.

In police procedures, there is plenty of room for leaving decisions to the officers under given conditions, but those policies and procedures define black-and-white parameters in black and white.

You do not have a "gray area" on constitutional rights. You don't have a gray area that allows you to falsify evidence, or to assault people just because you want to.

You can make a decision on whether to give someone a ticket or not. You can use your judgment to a point to decide that you're in danger and need to use a weapon of some kind, or to use experience and patience to do your job without causing injuries. You can decide whether it's more risk to chase or not (although there are several forces that have strict policies on that, too).

But you can't violate public policies. If you violate those policies, you're not doing your job. Those policies and procedures are based on laws and practices which are written down in black and white. You don't have any leeway with those. You don't get to beat someone who isn't threatening you just because you have a little too much adrenaline in your system, or he called you a dirty name.
 
2014-03-16 06:04:06 PM

thehobbes: SkeletorUpInHere: He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.

Surely you're trolling. 

Advocating lethal force on someone who is not putting your life in jeopardy still 

If he was going to shoot he wouldn't have lowered his weapon and turned his back.


The moment the gun is put away, lethal force is no longer justified.

THAT is the actual law.

Anything else is semantics and made up details to cover another cop's arse.

Cops too much follow the law.
 
2014-03-16 06:09:53 PM
New job: Professional camera footage deleter.
 
2014-03-16 06:12:44 PM

The more you eat the more you fart: thehobbes: SkeletorUpInHere: He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.

Surely you're trolling. 

Advocating lethal force on someone who is not putting your life in jeopardy still 

If he was going to shoot he wouldn't have lowered his weapon and turned his back.

The moment the gun is put away, lethal force is no longer justified.

THAT is the actual law.

Anything else is semantics and made up details to cover another cop's arse.

Cops too much follow the law.


At this point, I doubt he's actually a LEO, more likely trolling
 
2014-03-16 06:30:31 PM
Why Cameras would be a good thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvIjew0N-uA
 
2014-03-16 06:34:52 PM

CruiserTwelve: gingerjet: It also improves accountability. Which a lot of officers can't stand to have.

Where do you get this crap? You really think cops don't want to be held accountable?


Most don't.

Which is why most oppose the use of cameras.
 
2014-03-16 06:50:25 PM
I LOVED my body mic and car dashcam when I was a cop. As I always saw it, those things protected me more than anything else. Nobody could ever falsely accuse me of anything, and if I was ever attacked there would be a record to aid in conviction. 

There are legit concerns though. Having legit concerns about new things doesn't mean they are too scary to implement; it just means that they are not perfect. Like guns and fast cars and blood-soaked car wrecks and all the other dangerous stuff cops surround themselves with. 

Here is a legitimate issue: people need to be comfortable giving police reports without fear of their recorded image and comments becoming a public record. Easy as hell solutions abound, but they must be addressed rather than simply scaring everyone away from the beneficial tech altogether.
 
2014-03-16 07:03:04 PM

johne3819: Whatchoo Talkinbout: OK more effort.
[i1280.photobucket.com image 480x270]

maybe more analogous:

I've been recording all day with a low battery.  My camera may or may not be recording for the next minute.  Do you feel lucky punk?

I know what you're thinking. "Did he turn off his lapel pin or not?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?


Yer not raaat err ya bub? Actually we respect that here.
 
2014-03-16 07:17:22 PM

CruiserTwelve: gingerjet: It also improves accountability.   Which a lot of officers can't stand to have.

Where do you get this crap? You really think cops don't want to be held accountable? What cops fear is being misjudged. Even the most ethical, moral and legal actions of cops can and are heavily scrutinized by the public. Statements made by cops are taken out of context and words are twisted to support certain misbeliefs. After so many false accusations, cops become mistrustful of everyone.

A good example is when some cop get accused of being a criminal because a cop 2,000 miles away did something evil. Of course THAT never happens, does it?

Cops don't mind being held accountable for their own actions. It's when they're expected to be accountable for every other cop's actions that a problem  is created.


If enough people with mohawks are spraying silly string at people, and I see someone with a mohawk reach into their pocket, I'm just gonna assume it's silly string. Because at some point, you have to either use statistics to make an educated guess, or end up hurt\dead\arrested on false pretenses\having your crap stolen\otherwise victimized.
 
2014-03-16 07:18:02 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.


If you can't do your job without breaking the laws you are sworn to uphold or without violating someone's rights then you need to choose another line of work.
 
2014-03-16 07:22:53 PM

johne3819: The more you eat the more you fart: thehobbes: SkeletorUpInHere: He had a gun, and pointed it at me. He's still within 10 feet of me. I'd say that's enough reason.

Surely you're trolling. 

Advocating lethal force on someone who is not putting your life in jeopardy still 

If he was going to shoot he wouldn't have lowered his weapon and turned his back.

The moment the gun is put away, lethal force is no longer justified.

THAT is the actual law.

Anything else is semantics and made up details to cover another cop's arse.

Cops too much follow the law.

At this point, I doubt he's actually a LEO, more likely trolling


Well, good point.
 
2014-03-16 07:23:15 PM

DaveTheGreat: Here is a legitimate issue: people need to be comfortable giving police reports without fear of their recorded image and comments becoming a public record.


Aren't police reports, including quotes or paraphrasing of witness statements, already public records?
 
2014-03-16 07:24:36 PM
Rig them so that the camera comes on whenever the Taser or pistol is drawn.  That should show what the perp is doing immediately before being killed.

Kidding!  Have them on all the time, but provide for a CIVILIAN review board, picked just like a jury, to determine if a video is to be released to the public.
 
2014-03-16 07:25:23 PM

Beowoolfie: Oldiron_79: grinding_journalist:

Privacy is a technologically-obsolete concept.


If troll, 7/10.  Otherwise, view is overstated.

no way to prevent having a "cameras everywhere" society, short of collapsing our whole civilization

Moar hyperbole, why I am reading this?

amazon.com listing for "hidden cameras". Last time I checked, they sold over 7,000 models. I get a real kick out of Google Glass hysteria...like a perv would pay $1,500 for GG to take a 10-minute video of your kid in the pool, when he could pay only $50 for a camera that looks like a Bic lighter that'll record in higher quality for an hour or more.

Little creepy.

There's an open-source video drone the size of a hummingbird that can see/hear everything in your living room by perching on something outside the window.


Creepier still.

I've surrendered to the inevitible

Next will caught say inevitable global thermonuclear disaster blots out humanity in our lifetimes?
 
2014-03-16 07:31:04 PM

ReluctantPaladin: 1 - You're a sales conference IN Las Vegas and you figure taht since your wife is 2000 miles away you'll try some of what's on offer. Long bad sotry short, you get robbed by a hooker, but the cops recover your property and attempt to return it to you, while wearing cameras. Do you want to try to explain to the officer on camera why you just want to get your wallet and ring back and not press charges and just crawl back home to your wife, hoping that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?


Simple solution- don't cheat on your wife with hookers to begin with.

See- cameras are already reducing crime and keeping the honest people honest!

2 - You hang out with bad peoiple but you're not such a bad guy yourself. As such sometimes you give confidential info to the local beat cop. Would you trust that the video that the cop is recording will stay 100% secret and never be turned over or accessed (even by accident) by the guy who you're informing on?


"You hang out with bad peoiple but you're not such a bad guy yourself". Um, what? Good people don't hang out with bad people.
As for giving the 'local beat cop' some info- you can pass info on to someone without standing directly in front of their camera, clearly identifying yourself, and saying 'I have some snitch info for you, officer!'

3 - You're the victim of a sexual assault and are giving the responding officers and initial statement. Would you feel comfortable telling the officer the horrible details with the quiet glowing light there, reminding you that everything you say is being recorded and could be viewed later?

Yes. If there's any question of what I said, or how I was acting, it's there to back me up.
 
2014-03-16 07:45:47 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effectively eliminating the threa ...


So you're saying that the average street cop needs exponentially looser rules of engagement than a soldier on the battlefield?
Because there is no way that would be a good contact with a civilian in Afghanistan and you know it.
I guess the streets of Anytown, USA as far more dangerous than a war zone, huh?
 
2014-03-16 07:52:22 PM

CruiserTwelve: Would you like to be forced to wear a camera during private conversations with your co-workers?


Maybe not.  However I don't get to decide policy at my job.  If I had to wear one I either would do it, or I'd find another job.

Would you feel comfortable talking to a cop about a possibly embarrassing situation knowing you're being recorded?

Yes.  If it was so bad that I had to go against my own proscription against involving the cops, yeah, I'd want it recorded, because it means somebody must have just died.
 
2014-03-16 07:56:34 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: johne3819: Whatchoo Talkinbout: OK more effort.
[i1280.photobucket.com image 480x270]

maybe more analogous:

I've been recording all day with a low battery.  My camera may or may not be recording for the next minute.  Do you feel lucky punk?

I know what you're thinking. "Did he turn off his lapel pin or not?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

Yer not raaat err ya bub? Actually we respect that here.



Rarely right ever :)
 
2014-03-16 08:21:48 PM

SkeletorUpInHere: johne3819: SkeletorUpInHere: RogermcAllen: SkeletorUpInHere: Lenny_da_Hog: SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.

And we all know that the only way to protect the honest hard-working Joes is to protect the power-hungry scum who think they're above the law because they have a uniform and badge.

One bad cop can destroy someone else's life forever. You may have up and down days, but following procedures should be the minimal measure of competency. If you can't do that every day, you should not be a police officer.

We expect it of air traffic controllers and people in other hazardous industries. It's not too much to expect from police officers.

The problem with your reply 8 that in the world of police officers, decisions are never black and white. In most other jobs there is, but with police there are infinite number of variables to an infinite number of situations.

That being coupled with the fact that there's a target on our chest at all times, I would hope you see why cops are wary.

For instance, dash cameras, which are a vital tool, may not catch everything and have often been used in an attempt to twist things. Just yesterday I watched the dash cam of an officer who fired on an individual walking away from him. This was plastered all over the news. After getting to the bottom of the story, his partner, who also had a dash cam pulled up seconds before. The suspect pulled a shiny metallic object out of his pocket and pointed towards the officer in a threatening manner, then turned away putting the object back in his pocket.

The officer then shot the suspect in the back effe ...


I'd like to know which precinct/district/municipality you work for, so I can avoid ever stepping foot there. You're a bad cop (if you're a cop at all) and I hope you get removed from the job. This attitude is exactly the reason the general public has lost trust/respect for LEO's. It is righteously deserved, and unlikely to return in the near term.
 
2014-03-16 08:45:25 PM
"LEO selfies" is now a thing.
 
2014-03-16 09:01:02 PM

Theaetetus: DaveTheGreat: Here is a legitimate issue: people need to be comfortable giving police reports without fear of their recorded image and comments becoming a public record.

Aren't police reports, including quotes or paraphrasing of witness statements, already public records?


Not entirely. The basic rule of thumb is, yes, if it becomes evidence in a prosecution. No if it becomes background stuff or is a confidential informant or generally goes nowhere. In my experience, about 70% of people talking to cops fall into this category. Plus there is the whole hornet's nest of statements by minors, statements by sexual assault victims, statements against organized criminal groups (contrary to the TV/movies, witness protection programs essentially are nonexistent except in amazingly rare cases). 

Plus, some times things are timely or part of an ongoing investigation. That stuff needs to not be public record until after an appropriate time. 

ALL these things are minor and can be addressed through policy, leaving the widespread use of body recorders on the table.
 
2014-03-16 09:09:39 PM

PsiChick: If enough people with mohawks are spraying silly string at people, and I see someone with a mohawk reach into their pocket, I'm just gonna assume it's silly string. Because at some point, you have to either use statistics to make an educated guess, or end up hurt\dead\arrested on false pretenses\having your crap stolen\otherwise victimized.


Except you're not doing that. You're using cherry picked stories from the media that show a unrealistic and disproportionate amount of corrupt cops because that's what draws viewers. There are roughly 1.1 million police in the US. You're really me that with your keen mind for statistics, you have seen real data showing most of them are corrupt? No the occasional Youtube video or sensational news report don't count.

If you want to just hate cops, that's fine. But don't start claiming it's because you made a reasoned judgement based on statistic unless you're willing to show those statistics.
 
2014-03-16 09:14:07 PM

taurusowner: PsiChick: If enough people with mohawks are spraying silly string at people, and I see someone with a mohawk reach into their pocket, I'm just gonna assume it's silly string. Because at some point, you have to either use statistics to make an educated guess, or end up hurt\dead\arrested on false pretenses\having your crap stolen\otherwise victimized.

Except you're not doing that. You're using cherry picked stories from the media that show a unrealistic and disproportionate amount of corrupt cops because that's what draws viewers. There are roughly 1.1 million police in the US. You're really me that with your keen mind for statistics, you have seen real data showing most of them are corrupt? No the occasional Youtube video or sensational news report don't count.

If you want to just hate cops, that's fine. But don't start claiming it's because you made a reasoned judgement based on statistic unless you're willing to show those statistics.


Since it's one of the least reported things cops do...

Tell you what, though--you go ahead and tot up the number of examples. There's not that many, right? Shouldn't be, oh, easily in the millions, right? After all, there's only so many police officers...
 
2014-03-16 09:51:02 PM

CruiserTwelve: Would you feel comfortable talking to a cop about a possibly embarrassing situation knowing you're being recorded?


I will never feel comfortable talking to a cop.
Anything you say or do can and will be used against you in a court of law.
 
2014-03-16 09:54:23 PM

CruiserTwelve: Cops don't mind being held accountable for their own actions. It's when they're expected to be accountable for every other cop's actions that a problem is created.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Code_of_Silence
 
2014-03-16 09:55:54 PM
As a law enforcement officer, you do not have a right to privacy in the execution of your duties. That is all.
 
2014-03-16 10:01:10 PM

Badgers: The footage might be a bit unsteady:

[i.imgur.com image 850x637]


That is some very practical attire for chasing down criminals.
 
2014-03-16 10:09:35 PM

taurusowner: PsiChick: If enough people with mohawks are spraying silly string at people, and I see someone with a mohawk reach into their pocket, I'm just gonna assume it's silly string. Because at some point, you have to either use statistics to make an educated guess, or end up hurt\dead\arrested on false pretenses\having your crap stolen\otherwise victimized.

Except you're not doing that. You're using cherry picked stories from the media that show a unrealistic and disproportionate amount of corrupt cops because that's what draws viewers. There are roughly 1.1 million police in the US. You're really me that with your keen mind for statistics, you have seen real data showing most of them are corrupt? No the occasional Youtube video or sensational news report don't count.

If you want to just hate cops, that's fine. But don't start claiming it's because you made a reasoned judgement based on statistic unless you're willing to show those statistics.


I have had crooked state troopers take bribes from a trucking company whose drunken, passed out in his rig driver almost killed me at 16. Almost 40 years later I'm getting a haircut and a local cop talking to my barber proceeds to tell how he will fabricate reasons to pull over people that he thinks look like  the types to have drugs on them. I have had about 2 or 3 other incidents with disreputable cops.

Not all cops are dishonest, but there are enough to make the whole lot of them look bad. How about PD's start cleaning house and getting rid of the bad apples causing these trust issues?
 
2014-03-16 10:20:59 PM

happydude45: taurusowner: PsiChick: If enough people with mohawks are spraying silly string at people, and I see someone with a mohawk reach into their pocket, I'm just gonna assume it's silly string. Because at some point, you have to either use statistics to make an educated guess, or end up hurt\dead\arrested on false pretenses\having your crap stolen\otherwise victimized.

Except you're not doing that. You're using cherry picked stories from the media that show a unrealistic and disproportionate amount of corrupt cops because that's what draws viewers. There are roughly 1.1 million police in the US. You're really me that with your keen mind for statistics, you have seen real data showing most of them are corrupt? No the occasional Youtube video or sensational news report don't count.

If you want to just hate cops, that's fine. But don't start claiming it's because you made a reasoned judgement based on statistic unless you're willing to show those statistics.

I have had crooked state troopers take bribes from a trucking company whose drunken, passed out in his rig driver almost killed me at 16. Almost 40 years later I'm getting a haircut and a local cop talking to my barber proceeds to tell how he will fabricate reasons to pull over people that he thinks look like  the types to have drugs on them. I have had about 2 or 3 other incidents with disreputable cops.

Not all cops are dishonest, but there are enough to make the whole lot of them look bad. How about PD's start cleaning house and getting rid of the bad apples causing these trust issues?


And it's not simply the numbers. It's the amount of damage they can do.

Supertankers rarely wreck and spill oil all over the place. We still keep contingency plans in place because of the amount of damage a single bad one can do. One bad cop can ruin your entire future and take away everything you have.
 
2014-03-16 11:26:45 PM

DaveTheGreat: Theaetetus: DaveTheGreat: Here is a legitimate issue: people need to be comfortable giving police reports without fear of their recorded image and comments becoming a public record.

Aren't police reports, including quotes or paraphrasing of witness statements, already public records?

Not entirely. The basic rule of thumb is, yes, if it becomes evidence in a prosecution.  No if it becomes background stuff or is a confidential informant or generally goes nowhere. In my experience, about 70% of people talking to cops fall into this category.

 ]

Well, I don't think people are demanding that police reports about kitties stuck in trees or video recordings of Officers buying lunch be made public, because, as noted in the popular meme:
smalltownrevelations.files.wordpress.com
It's only when, y'know, it becomes evidence in a prosecution that it might be somewhat important.

Plus, some times things are timely or part of an ongoing investigation. That stuff needs to not be public record until after an appropriate time.

See above: if no one has been charged with a crime, then you can take your records and your video recording and shove them up your ass for all anyone gives a damn. It's when someone  has been charged that it must be made available, at least to their attorney under seal, should that be what the judge decides.

ALL these things are minor and can be addressed through policy, leaving the widespread use of body recorders on the table.

Frankly, I can't see any legitimate reason why body recorders shouldn't be in widespread use. So far, the only defenses that have been raised are "what if the defense attorney decides to suicide bomb his own career and send them to the media?!" and "but people might feel uncomfortable that the guy who is writing down every word they say may also be actually recording every word they say, because they might have something in their teeth and could be embarrassed or something."
 
2014-03-16 11:28:37 PM

ReluctantPaladin: grinding_journalist: CruiserTwelve: Would you like to be forced to wear a camera during private conversations with your co-workers?

I don't work for the city/state/nation and have no authority with which to ruin people's lives. So no, I don't want to wear one but you'd be hard pressed to find a good reason for me to.

Would you feel comfortable talking to a cop about a possibly embarrassing situation knowing you're being recorded?

Why would you discuss it with the cop? What situation can you think of that would be embarrassing for the individual being interviewed where it was NECESSARY for them to discuss it, and have it entered as evidence? People need to shut the fark up around cops, it's not their business.

1 - You're a sales conference IN Las Vegas and you figure taht since your wife is 2000 miles away you'll try some of what's on offer.  Long bad sotry short, you get robbed by a hooker, but the cops recover your property and attempt to return it to you, while wearing cameras.  Do you want to try to explain to the officer on camera why you just want to get your wallet and ring back and not press charges and just crawl back home to your wife, hoping that what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?

2 - You hang out with bad peoiple but you're not such a bad guy yourself.  As such sometimes you give confidential info to the local beat cop.  Would you trust that the video that the cop is recording will stay 100% secret and never be turned over or accessed (even by accident) by the guy who you're informing on?

3 - You're the victim of a sexual assault and are giving the responding officers and initial statement.  Would you feel comfortable telling the officer the horrible details with the quiet glowing light there, reminding you that everything you say is being recorded and could be viewed later?

Those are 3 examples that I though off just off the top of my head.  I'm not saying that cops shouldn't be cammed up, they should.  But there has to be provisions in place ...


1) .... I have no problem with your examples
2) you're farked ... you are in public, you have no expectation of privacy
3) ok 3 is a MUCH bigger problem and policy will be written to deal with this

On the other hand, back to case 3, your report being recorded isnt the same thing as that being public record.  Time to put all of the video under control of the courts, not the police. Esp since the police have a tendency to lose the video. LOL

sigh

we live in a brave new world
 
2014-03-16 11:48:15 PM

happydude45: Not all cops are dishonest, but there are enough to make the whole lot of them look bad. How about PD's start cleaning house and getting rid of the bad apples causing these trust issues?


please
by definition all cops are bad
they have NOT cleaned house and resist all attempts at house cleaning.
until the LESS BAD cops start arresting the REALLY BAD cops, dont go trying to convince me of innocence.

There was a cop shooting recently, texas maybe?
Where the cop shot into a trapped care, reloaded and shot some more.
There was another cop on the scene who did nothing buy HIDE.
Why didnt he STOP the other cop from committing murder?
Because he is a bad cop.
 
2014-03-16 11:51:45 PM

Theaetetus: DaveTheGreat: Theaetetus: DaveTheGreat: Here is a legitimate issue: people need to be comfortable giving police reports without fear of their recorded image and comments becoming a public record.

Aren't police reports, including quotes or paraphrasing of witness statements, already public records?

Not entirely. The basic rule of thumb is, yes, if it becomes evidence in a prosecution.  No if it becomes background stuff or is a confidential informant or generally goes nowhere. In my experience, about 70% of people talking to cops fall into this category. ]

Well, I don't think people are demanding that police reports about kitties stuck in trees or video recordings of Officers buying lunch be made public, because, as noted in the popular meme:
[smalltownrevelations.files.wordpress.com image 300x179]
It's only when, y'know, it becomes evidence in a prosecution that it might be somewhat important.

Plus, some times things are timely or part of an ongoing investigation. That stuff needs to not be public record until after an appropriate time.

See above: if no one has been charged with a crime, then you can take your records and your video recording and shove them up your ass for all anyone gives a damn. It's when someone  has been charged that it must be made available, at least to their attorney under seal, should that be what the judge decides.

ALL these things are minor and can be addressed through policy, leaving the widespread use of body recorders on the table.

Frankly, I can't see any legitimate reason why body recorders shouldn't be in widespread use. So far, the only defenses that have been raised are "what if the defense attorney decides to suicide bomb his own career and send them to the media?!" and "but people might feel uncomfortable that the guy who is writing down every word they say may also be actually recording every word they say, because they might have something in their teeth and could be embarrassed or something."



Ehhh ... the thing is, people are weird. I never got in a gang shootout or foiled a bank robbery or took down a mafia don, but I had uncountable instances of neighbors being dicks to each other and terrified old racists letting me know their suspicions about whoever just stumbled onto their radar. You would THINK that nobody would care about pulling these recordings to browse them for embarrassing details about their neighbors (or banks trolling for details before a foreclosure), but you would be wrong. 

Personally, I have had the public check up on me when I was at lunch, and one rather memorable occasion where I went to a convenience store to buy a drink and a snack. My body mic immediately exonerated me from wrongdoing or general "that guy was rude!" complaints. I was off camera each time, but not out of mic range. Awesome things (and this was a long time ago. The newer tech is even more awesome). 

My long-winded point is: people DO go through the minutiae of police records. For some, it's a hobby. For others, it's a vocation. Sometimes it's spite or greed or simply boredom. But yes, the recordings and records get poured through, even if they are things nobody cared about. 

Kitties stuck in trees, though, is a firefighter call. Cops just get the barking dogs :) 

This same sort of issue came up a lot in an old-timey way with police blotters and local newspapers. The solutions they came up with are too out-of-date to use now, but the fact that they did come up with solutions leads me to think we can come up with new ones. 

These recordings still need to happen, and the one thing I know for sure is that the police should NOT be the people who decide what gets released (that would just kick the problem down the road a bit). I like the idea of a two-tiered system, where everything is released unless the police object, in which case the citizen panel meets to decide if the police get overruled, or if they agree, or if they agree with some sort of time delay.
 
2014-03-17 12:47:45 AM
I'm sure this has been re-hashed over and over, but how the hell does a recording device "influence" anything but the truth?
 
2014-03-17 01:01:52 AM

Sharksfan: I'm sure this has been re-hashed over and over, but how the hell does a recording device "influence" anything but the truth?


observation bias
google it
 
2014-03-17 02:05:15 AM

SkeletorUpInHere: According to these comments, it would seem that every cop in the US is barging down your doors, raping your women, and stealing your money.

What ever happened to giving officers the benefit of the doubt? Our job is extremely difficult and to be on your P's and Q's 100% of the time is downright impossible. So get off your farking highhorse and give them a break. A few bad cops doesn't mean that they're all bad.


***Except of course that the many are protecting, defending and covering up for those "few bad cops" as you call them.
As far as I am concerned all cops - especially those in urban areas - are thugs and bullies who are trained in one thing and one thing only - hurting people as much as they possibly can. And then lie about it with the standard, "I felt in fear for my life because he/she was reaching for their waistband."
 
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