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(Guardian)   NASA study: We're screwed   (theguardian.com ) divider line 256
    More: Scary, NASA, resource extraction, technological change  
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24898 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Mar 2014 at 10:42 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-16 11:57:24 AM  

RandyRick: More libtard propaganda.  The truth is we can grow as much as we want, consume as much as we want, pollute as much as we want, and there are no consequences. Because... job creators... Jesus... America!

/Conservative logic


More Libtard smearing of conservative logic. Youd be surprised how many conservatives are conservationists and support alternative energy. The issue is how you get there and what to do about the rest of the world.
 
2014-03-16 11:58:08 AM  

jaybeezey: Just an interesting point of fact.

If you release a study that says, don't worry guys it's cool, you don't get paid to do follow up studies on ways to fix anything.


...because, clearly, the motive here is for these folks to obtain more funding. Sheesh.
 
2014-03-16 11:58:21 AM  

jaybeezey: Just an interesting point of fact.

If you release a study that says, don't worry guys it's cool, you don't get paid to do follow up studies on ways to fix anything.


Yes, that's very interesting. It's a great argument for rolling your eyes at these kinds of studies and getting back to checking the sports scores.
 
2014-03-16 11:58:57 AM  

Rozotorical: Currently industrializing societies rely 100% on post industrial society. If you some how think that saying Africa, the continent that has huge range of technology from post industrial to tribal, is not heavenly influenced by post industrial societies, western and Asian then you just being silly.

  If you think acts of resource waste and incredibly dangerous pollutions are not rampant in any industrial society then you are being even sillier.


I have a feeling we are actually on the same side here. I might be wrong as I have not slept for over 36 hours, but if you think that the way we are living is a bad thing for earth and for any hopes of any where close to a "normal" life style, then we agree.
 
2014-03-16 12:01:08 PM  

jaybeezey: Just an interesting point of fact.

If you release a study that says, don't worry guys it's cool, you don't get paid to do follow up studies on ways to fix anything.


Yes and if the conclusion is more shocking, it draws more attention.

The biggest problems are in India and China. Half the world's population is in those two places, and they are adopting our consumer culture, and they resent any attempts to impose our values. When you figure out that problem, there may be a chance to fix the bigger problem.
 
2014-03-16 12:02:53 PM  

Gone In 26 Minutes: Rozotorical: Gone In 26 Minutes: Rozotorical: mr lawson: Gone In 26 Minutes: And 35+ years ago, people were saying the same thing - except it was during the Cold War era which was also supersrsbsns that people thought couldn't be avoided. For decades now, we've supposedly been on the brink of some catastrophe or another caused by  something.

oh i get that. Trust me. I get it. Even as I type this and everyday I wake up, I critically wonder to myself, "'Am I right? Did I miss something in the data? The world has been spinning for thousands of years and just by miracle it is going to fall apart when I am alive? Occam's razor."
And yet it seems to be the case.

The world does not equal industrialized civilization. If you think industrial and post industrial life styles are sustainable then your sir, are a grade a moron.

How do you figure? Industrialization is a very new thing in our species' history so it's hard to say either way. If we rely on a finite resource, then no, it isn't sustainable - but that's been the case throughout history for every animal. What industrialization has done is make the process faster and more efficient. The idea is taking what we've learned and applying it to the same sort of rapid renewal and/or rapid reproduction of the things we need. See also: modern agriculture. It's really amazing what kind of shiat you can do with a few hundred years worth of technology that just keeps growing more sophisticated.

So, your idea is that we will create a wonder to fix the already existing disasters that are currently largely ignored?

Why not? We've been creating wonders for a while now. You just take them for granted while simultaneously trying to play the role of a Luddite... on the internet. Also, your list has only three examples of environmental hazards created by humans in the western world. The rest are Soviet-era projects that had no oversight and no regulation, the result of war or were caused by natural disasters without human input. I alre ...


Because they simply are not wonders. They are farking tools created in the natural world off of available finite resources. THERE IS NO MAGIC! The problems that currently exist are not just the rate we currently use available resources to order our civilization and create our different societies. It is the growing demand and frequency of demand for more diverse harder to find elements with a rapidly exploding uncontrolled population. Every creature that has ever walked swam, crawled, floated, or inches across this planet have faced the same constrains. We are amazing tool builders, but we still face the same constraints.

Waste is no farking secret we are literally buried in it.

The human race does not depend on post industrial society or industrialized society to survive.
 
2014-03-16 12:06:25 PM  

mr lawson: Rozotorical: Currently industrializing societies rely 100% on post industrial society. If you some how think that saying Africa, the continent that has huge range of technology from post industrial to tribal, is not heavenly influenced by post industrial societies, western and Asian then you just being silly.

  If you think acts of resource waste and incredibly dangerous pollutions are not rampant in any industrial society then you are being even sillier.

I have a feeling we are actually on the same side here. I might be wrong as I have not slept for over 36 hours, but if you think that the way we are living is a bad thing for earth and for any hopes of any where close to a "normal" life style, then we agree.


My entire point is that collapse is not the end of humanity. It is not even the end of industry. Collapse is inevitable and we are a hell of a lot closer then we like to pretend.  It is a real threat and currently breathing down our collective necks. A magic invention will not save the world. The issue is how we currently order our race and resource allotment depends on conflict and control.
 
2014-03-16 12:07:06 PM  

hardinparamedic: Too bad the "wealthy elite"/Republican response will be TL;DR, or write this off as Obammaunist commissioned class warfare tripe.

The word Romanovs comes to mind.


Too bad the Democrat response will be to create a new tax and waste the money in their slush fund.
 
2014-03-16 12:09:09 PM  
Question the source...isn't that what we are told by Fark when a study reports findings that are not aligned with the prediposed and immutable opinions of Farkites?

SESYNC has an agenda all its own.  Admittedly one that a lot of people are pleased to hang their hat on, but an agenda nonetheless.

Explain how a "green-funded" study outlining a scenario for gloom and doom, is different than an "oil-funded" study explaining how anthropomorphic "climate change" (or the current catch-phrase consistent with weather events) is bunk?
 
2014-03-16 12:10:04 PM  

Gunther: FTA:  "... accumulated surplus is not evenly distributed throughout society, but rather has been controlled by an elite. The mass of the population, while producing the wealth, is only allocated a small portion of it by elites, usually at or just above subsistence levels...the Elites eventually consume too much, resulting in a famine among Commoners that eventually causes the collapse of society  "

Dang, there's gonna be a lot of WHARGARBL on Fox when they hear about this study.


'Elites' like Al Gore and George Soros or the other kind?
 
2014-03-16 12:12:41 PM  

Rozotorical: The issue is how we currently order our race and resource allotment depends on conflict and control.


See! We do agree!
lol...been working on this problem for a few years now.
Yes I think I have an answer, but not ready to publish it just yet.
/I think the problem we had in communication was all on my end.
//i need sleep
///also, since I have been knee deep with this type of data for years now, certain terms have very specific meaning to me.
////Economist
 
2014-03-16 12:13:44 PM  

FormlessOne: In other words, this isn't a problem out of which you can simply invent your way. Oddly enough, less, not more, is the solution here, but no one wants to hear that, not in a culture that values materialism and conspicuous consumption as its cornerstone.


That's because invention has not been motivated by the need to reduce consumption.  If reducing consumption is the primary motivation, you would see different products being developed.

While I agree with your main point, I do not see it as a black-and-white situation.  In my opinion, the solution will pull from various sources - both technological, and a re-definition of what people consider a successful life.  Clearly, obsessing over "things" that mostly serve as proof of one's ability to acquire physical wealth and resources is unsustainable.
 
2014-03-16 12:14:28 PM  

MrGMan: Question the source...isn't that what we are told by Fark when a study reports findings that are not aligned with the prediposed and immutable opinions of Farkites?

SESYNC has an agenda all its own.  Admittedly one that a lot of people are pleased to hang their hat on, but an agenda nonetheless.

Explain how a "green-funded" study outlining a scenario for gloom and doom, is different than an "oil-funded" study explaining how anthropomorphic "climate change" (or the current catch-phrase consistent with weather events) is bunk?


follow the money?
/i'm going to bed..agggg
 
2014-03-16 12:15:08 PM  
Cut through the bullshiat and it boils down to this:

We will not avoid the crisis because both sides are pointing the finger at the other while they struggle to get into 'Looting Position' or in charge. And all of us a tricked into being part of the scam. It has always been this way, we don't know any better.
 
2014-03-16 12:18:06 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Delay: TV's Vinnie: I've been hearing this doom & gloom since the early 70's, and yet we're still here, and there's still plenty of Big Macs to go around.

Big Macs are part of the problem. "60% of the world's agricultural land is used for beef production, yet beef accounts for less than 2% of the calories that are consumed throughout the world." FAO UN

And again, we should have already been extinct twenty years ago if these Doctor Downers were right.


These rats never give up. The atomic doomsday clock used to be five minutes till midnight.... until the cold war ended. Then they moved it back to five minutes when they decided that India/Pakistan/china would somehow exterminate all life on earth. And global warming. Yeah, the atomic scientists have now put that on the doomsday clock.

One day, of course, we'll all be dead. And all the prudent Polly's that were predicting the end of the Hittites, the Victorians, the steampunkers and the knobgobblers will also be dead too. But at least they made their best scrunched up frowny faces and some of them wore literal hair shirts.
 
2014-03-16 12:18:58 PM  
Space X is doing fine, others will come. If NASA is to be another mouthpiece for the government effort to move the wealth into their own pockets, we don't need them.

Move along, nothing to see here. De-fund them.
 
2014-03-16 12:24:34 PM  
Is this where people living comfy lives come in to scoff at any study saying comfy life can't go on forever?
 
2014-03-16 12:28:31 PM  

FormlessOne: jaybeezey: Just an interesting point of fact.

If you release a study that says, don't worry guys it's cool, you don't get paid to do follow up studies on ways to fix anything.

...because, clearly, the motive here is for these folks to obtain more funding. Sheesh.


Pay doesn't just come in dollars. Do-gooders get a sense of self satisfaction from collecting Making A Difference points. MaD dollars are what fixed the hole in the ozone layer and saved the whales
 
2014-03-16 12:32:07 PM  
Solving the WORLD's electrical energy needs:

Solution 1: ~150,000 7.5 MW wind turbines
Solution 2: ~1,000 square miles of Gallium Arsinide 42% efficient solar panels
Solution 3: ~15,000 square miles of 17% conventional solar panels

Solving the WORLD's Chemical energy needs:

5000 Thermal depolymerization plants
5000 biofuel/waste treatment facilities
5000 fuel refineries

Solving the WORLD's global consumption of seafood in all forms

21.7 miles of Deep Blue fishing technology to produce the 90,000,000 tons of fish and
coastal farming of the 30,000,000 tons of sea plant life we take from the ocean every year.

Solving the WORLD's global consumption of land based agriculture.

50,000 10 acre 10 story Vertical Farming facilities
(1 facility in Singapore currently is getting 10 times efficiency per unit of normal agriculture and the cost of the electricity to run it is ~3 Singapore dollars a month or around $2.20 US)

Solving the WORLD's water consumption issues

All of the above could help mitigate around 30% of the water consumption currently taking place.
Add 5000 water recycling facilities to the 5000 facilities for chemical energy production and you can take the efficiency up to 90%

Solving electrical energy storage  issues

Superconductive grid can store energy up to baud transmission capacities
Using electrolysis of water to create stores of hydrogen and oxygen then burn in steam turbines could also be used for storage purposes at 61% efficiency.

Realizing vertical efficiency for city scapes

Reduce the sprawl of the cities into small 1, 2 or 3 square mile 500, 2000, and 9000 respectively vertical 30 to 50 story buildings and you could reduce signal transmission costs, electrical grid costs, Internet accessability costs, water pipe infrastructure, sewage system infrastructure, roads, mass transit infrastructure and individual transportation, vehicle time and travel costs by 70%.

These are all available with today's technology. We don't have to go down the dismal spiral projected before us.
 
2014-03-16 12:33:42 PM  

FunkOut: Is this where people living comfy lives come in to scoff at any study saying comfy life can't go on forever?


In part. Although I am shocked, shocked, that so many have come in to blame NASA for receiving funding for the study.

humphreybogartclauderains.jpg
 
2014-03-16 12:34:42 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Space X is doing fine, others will come. If NASA is to be another mouthpiece for the government effort to move the wealth into their own pockets, we don't need them.

Move along, nothing to see here. De-fund them.


The Air Force seems to be getting where they want w/o NASA.
In secret. No problems in Houston.
For YOUR OWN GOOD, GDISM!
 
2014-03-16 12:36:49 PM  

capt.hollister: By one life's coincidences I'm actually revisiting my old old classics in audiobook form and this is one I'm going through now. Unfortunately for us, it doesn't appear that we have a long-lived, telepathic robot to secretly guide us through the upcoming collapse and rebirth.


Well, the secret is safe here.
 
2014-03-16 12:37:29 PM  
I'd trust the study more if the could've come up with a better name than HANDY.
 
2014-03-16 12:39:03 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Whelp, time to get the bug out gear ready and a cabin in the Appalachians.

I got experience raising chickens and horses, all I need is someone with more agrarian skills. Any volunteers?


As long as an acre or two can be reserved for weed, I'm in.
 
2014-03-16 12:39:14 PM  
Well, DUH.

Civilization is built on imagination, and it can be broken by disasters both real and imaginary. The only thing that keeps any civilization going is whether enough people think it's still worth the effort to maintain the infrastructure properly. We have come to expect too much of imaginary constructs, and so we find civilization failing to meet our impossible expectations again and again. Soon it will be torn down by the ungrateful, and only after it's gone will anyone realize how much it did for them.
 
2014-03-16 12:44:35 PM  

big pig peaches: NASA funded? Um, no. Some idiots doing a study based on a NASA model.
Society didn't collapse after the fall of Rome; it just changed. And it will again.

/but if everyone gets a handy, I'm ok with it.


According to one study it took the average Briton a thousand years to reach the same standard of living they had under Rome.

/yeah, yeah, "Who are the Britons?"
 
2014-03-16 12:45:16 PM  
ts1.mm.bing.net
 
2014-03-16 12:45:52 PM  
So, the industrial civilization gave us the computers and satellites that now allow NASA to predict our doom.

/ Fascinating...
 
2014-03-16 12:47:25 PM  
Just curious, how many people here who are behind the results of this study laugh and scoff at "preppers"?
 
2014-03-16 12:50:10 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: We will not avoid the crisis because both sides are pointing the finger at the other while they struggle to get into 'Looting Position' or in charge. And all of us a tricked into being part of the scam. It has always been this way, we don't know any better.


We will not fix the crisis because people like you care more about getting robbed than about fixing problems.

/it's a legitimate concern, of course
//mostly because your inability to separate fantasy from reality results in you falling for any con artists that tell you what you want to hear
///and also makes you viciously reject anyone that dares tell you what you actually need to hear
 
2014-03-16 12:51:03 PM  

mr lawson: Pharmdawg: and the wealthy elites laughed it off and kept on drinking and partying and irrevocably farking things up.

none...they prepared for it. It was the general masses that didn't


It is incumbent upon those with wealth, power, and strength to shepherd the weak, poor and powerless, to make careful, honorable decisions that help the entire society move forward.

Otherwise French Revolution.jpeg
 
2014-03-16 12:53:25 PM  
Last I thought, NASA stood for National Aeronautics and Space Administration.  This has little if anything to do with their purpose of space exploration.  How about directing some of the funds for this study to further that pursuit and bring back a manned space flight system?  After all, we're relying on the Russians to supply the ISS, take up and bring down people, etc. and considering the situation in the Crimea, that's not a good thing.

As for the report itself, there is a grain of truth to what it says.  There is also some other key things they leave out, like say technological advances that might occur in resource recycling and any possible developments in propulsion technology that might potentially allow humanity to extract resources from off in space and developments in materials technology that would allow resource extraction off shore.  The other problem is that this report is so clearly a piece of propaganda that's attempted to be cloaked in the veil of science to justify what the wacko leftists really want: power.   That's what it's all about.  It's a good way to divide a nation, too.  Which is exactly what they're going to get.
 
2014-03-16 12:54:20 PM  
I'm not sure if it would help stop an industrial collapse but I'm pretty sure stopping the fake money presses would help reel in government agency's and corral them back in to their jurisdictions...

bring jobs back.
 
2014-03-16 12:55:08 PM  
@cantsleep
The study shows what could happen if "large scale" change doesn't occur on a "world wide" basis.
The numbers I present to mitigate all of the doom and gloom are not "large" nor even are needed to be "world wide".

"Preppers" who think that their year's supply of food, in a basement/cave and their collection of guns and "insert large number" of rounds of ammo are going to get them through a society destroying event are simply self-medicating their fears. It isn't laughable, it is just a sad reflection of the fear that is being propogated by all media sources at some level on a constant basis.
 
2014-03-16 12:55:43 PM  

cantsleep: Just curious, how many people here who are behind the results of this study laugh and scoff at "preppers"?


I do. The reason I skoff at preppers is something called "The Sixth Extinction." There is a book by Richard Leaky and a newer one with the same title by Elizabeth Kolbert that explains the situation. The damage humans are causing is not something like the collapse of the Easter Islanders, Greenland Norse etc. We are taking out whole genera of worms, amphibians, plants, corals and fish. Stocking up on ammo from Walmart is not really the answer.
 
2014-03-16 01:04:47 PM  
@bobthemagnificent

NASA is trying to point out that if change doesn't occur, then we won't have a very livable planet, and in the next 40 years, we won't be in a position to get off this one to go somewhere else. That is what makes this NASA's purvue. We won't be ready to explore space if Earth is a climactic, political warring wasteland over resources, money, and political power. It is just one more source of information telling humanity collectively that we should try to get our world in order, so that we can continue to grow and survive as a species, perhaps somewhere other than this one blue ball.
 
2014-03-16 01:08:53 PM  
Any decent psychohistorian could tell that we are approaching a Seldon Crisis.
 
2014-03-16 01:08:54 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Whatchoo Talkinbout: We will not avoid the crisis because both sides are pointing the finger at the other while they struggle to get into 'Looting Position' or in charge. And all of us a tricked into being part of the scam. It has always been this way, we don't know any better.

We will not fix the crisis because people like you care more about getting robbed than about fixing problems.

/it's a legitimate concern, of course
//mostly because your inability to separate fantasy from reality results in you falling for any con artists that tell you what you want to hear
///and also makes you viciously reject anyone that dares tell you what you actually need to hear


Clearly you're projecting you internal issues on others. I listen, I hear, but I also have an active BS meter, your post triggered, as does nearly every politician that runs for office. Also as clear as day, you don't 'get' sarcasm nor read English well.
 
2014-03-16 01:08:58 PM  
A new study sponsored by Nasa's Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.

LOL Next up, let's go ask some economists to plot us a trajectory to Mars.
 
2014-03-16 01:11:00 PM  
I'll do just fine
 
2014-03-16 01:20:17 PM  

Acravius: @bobthemagnificent

NASA is trying to point out that if change doesn't occur, then we won't have a very livable planet, and in the next 40 years, we won't be in a position to get off this one to go somewhere else. That is what makes this NASA's purvue. We won't be ready to explore space if Earth is a climactic, political warring wasteland over resources, money, and political power. It is just one more source of information telling humanity collectively that we should try to get our world in order, so that we can continue to grow and survive as a species, perhaps somewhere other than this one blue ball.


That's one good way to look at. Although, I like to think that there were a whole bunch of bright men and women who would be unemployed after the space shuttle unless they could be turned loose on planetary issues.

Our extinction qualifies. This collapse is different from the demise of the Soviet Union etc. This is a "Sixth Extinction" because of the damage caused. Too many genera are projected to die out. When this happened in the past, every land animal over 100 lbs vanished.

Also, we can't move to another blue ball. We are stuck here.
 
2014-03-16 01:20:50 PM  

cantsleep: Just curious, how many people here who are behind the results of this study laugh and scoff at "preppers"?


I've seen people scoff and laugh at suggestions to keep a first aid kit and 3 day supply kit in an earthquake zone.
 
2014-03-16 01:21:20 PM  
Just stick to your fake landing sets.
 
2014-03-16 01:21:23 PM  
Human civilization mimics life. It was born, it will grow and it will die. To carry on we have to reproduce a new better version and adapt. Industrialaztion was spring, technological innovation was summer, but fall and winter are coming and we have many mouths to feed. Do we have enough cattle feed to last until next spring? I predict a North Korea Soviet Detroit style civilization for about 50 years if we don't. Dress warm.
 
2014-03-16 01:24:46 PM  
I will just add this to the towering stack of alarmist catastrophe prediction articles that have failed to come true for the last 40+ years...
 
2014-03-16 01:24:55 PM  
"in association with a team of natural and social scientists"

Stopped reading at that point.
 
2014-03-16 01:27:12 PM  

StokeyBob: I'm not sure if it would help stop an industrial collapse but I'm pretty sure stopping the fake money presses would help reel in government agency's and corral them back in to their jurisdictions...

bring jobs back.


All money is inherently fake, even when it's based on useless lumps of yellow metal. It's as real as we universally agree it is.It's not a problem unless you get a bunch of uneducated idiots elected to government that don't understand world economies and do everything they can to undermine our countries good credit. All because they think world governments run like personal checking accounts.
Unfortunately, one of the core functions of capitalism is to destroy jobs and lower purchasing power in it's eternal motive to reduce costs. It's inherently self destructive.
 
2014-03-16 01:37:02 PM  

Delay: cantsleep: Just curious, how many people here who are behind the results of this study laugh and scoff at "preppers"?

I do. The reason I skoff at preppers is something called "The Sixth Extinction." There is a book by Richard Leaky and a newer one with the same title by Elizabeth Kolbert that explains the situation. The damage humans are causing is not something like the collapse of the Easter Islanders, Greenland Norse etc. We are taking out whole genera of worms, amphibians, plants, corals and fish. Stocking up on ammo from Walmart is not really the answer.


Still no reason to scoff, IMO. One of mankinds base urges is to protect yourself and your family. I see these people as doing what they feel they can to do just that.
/ not a prepper
 
2014-03-16 01:41:57 PM  
If we could work together for as long each year that we spend trying to kill each other on Call of Duty, most of these issues would already be fixed.

Between 2010 and 2013, humanity spent a collective 213 million years playing Call of Duty in it's many variations. I am not singling out COD, I am sure that millions of years of collective time was spent commuting to and from work, talking on the internet, and playing other video games during those three years.

I'm not saying that the time wasn't time well spent, because real people weren't being hurt, it's just that we seem to have a lot of human resources that aren't being valued very well if it was more utilitarian to shoot at avatars for all that time, than go out and do the very small (in comparison) steps it would take to stop hurting our world's ecosystem.
 
2014-03-16 01:45:40 PM  
"the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history." Cases of severe civilisational disruption due to "precipitous collapse - often lasting centuries - have been quite common."

sooopp...not irreversible?
 
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