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(Daily Mail)   It's wrong to kick a man when he's down. Unless you're nine and your father has had a heart attack   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 33
    More: Hero, Izzy McCarron, Jahi McMath, epipen  
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8639 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2014 at 10:04 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-15 09:47:40 PM  
she used her foot, stamping on Colm's ribcage
The jolt restarted his heart and paramedics took him to hospital


The jolt from being stomped on? I didn't know CPR could restart someone's heart.
 
2014-03-15 10:07:42 PM  
Another false flag...
 
2014-03-15 10:22:04 PM  
hardinparamedic, is this something you learn in in EMS school?
 
2014-03-15 10:25:51 PM  
And there I read the headline and thought to myself what a horrible little child. Well I'll be damned.
 
2014-03-15 10:35:05 PM  
The good person's tough love.
 
2014-03-15 10:36:37 PM  
Whoa.. yeah...
Kickstart my heart, give it a start
Whoa... yeah... baby...
 
2014-03-15 10:43:24 PM  
Colm, 35, suffered a mystery allergic reaction last Saturday

Cocaine does that to me too.
 
2014-03-15 11:10:02 PM  
caragaleblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-15 11:18:46 PM  
Thanks to Obamacare, we're reduced to having 9 yr olds kick their dads in the chest as a way to treat heart attacks.
 
2014-03-15 11:18:47 PM  

fusillade762: she used her foot, stamping on Colm's ribcage
The jolt restarted his heart and paramedics took him to hospital

The jolt from being stomped on? I didn't know CPR could restart someone's heart.


Most things that require CPR *aren't* stopped hearts: Heart Attacks are generally fibrillation (arhytmic spasming/the rhythm getting farked) than utterly stopped.

CPR (or jolts) can force the heart back into regular rhythm.
 
2014-03-15 11:32:09 PM  
Someone is finally getting that pony she keeps asking for.
 
2014-03-16 12:06:09 AM  

anuran: hardinparamedic, is this something you learn in in EMS school?


outside of off color jokes about racist cops, nope. :)

Good for the kid. He may not have had enough body strength to do CPR. It's better than nothing
 
2014-03-16 12:07:49 AM  
'The paramedics said I might as well be a doctor or a nurse. My mum said that he was going to hospital with a giant footprint on his chest.'

So he was transported to Warner Bros Presbyterian was he?
 
2014-03-16 12:09:40 AM  
Weird the bullet points were the story. Like they led into each other
 
2014-03-16 12:15:34 AM  

anuran: hardinparamedic, is this something you learn in in EMS school?


No, they mostly learn how to groom and sleep with my little pony dolls.
 
2014-03-16 12:24:58 AM  

cgraves67: Someone is finally getting that pony she keeps asking for.


Or a lifetime of bitter regret.
 
2014-03-16 12:28:50 AM  

hardinparamedic: anuran: hardinparamedic, is this something you learn in in EMS school?

outside of off color jokes about racist cops, nope. :)

Good for the kid. He may not have had enough body strength to do CPR. It's better than nothing


She seems to be a smart kid. Smart enough to improvise in an emergency.

Hope they figure out just what the heck he's allergic to, though. Hopefully it isn't shoes.
 
2014-03-16 12:33:34 AM  

dj_bigbird: Thanks to Obamacare, we're reduced to having 9 yr olds kick their dads in the chest as a way to treat heart attacks.


I'm more suprised that Obamacare applies in England
 
2014-03-16 12:38:20 AM  

dj_bigbird: Thanks to Obamacare, we're reduced to having 9 yr olds kick their dads in the chest as a way to treat heart attacks.


I take it you support ObammyScare then? After all it relies on good old fashioned pull yourself up by your bootstraps self reliance.
 
2014-03-16 12:47:15 AM  

Felgraf: fusillade762: she used her foot, stamping on Colm's ribcage
The jolt restarted his heart and paramedics took him to hospital

The jolt from being stomped on? I didn't know CPR could restart someone's heart.

Most things that require CPR *aren't* stopped hearts: Heart Attacks are generally fibrillation (arhytmic spasming/the rhythm getting farked) than utterly stopped.

CPR (or jolts) can force the heart back into regular rhythm.



Not really true. A "heart attack" is when your coronary arteries become clogged with plaque to the point of impeding blood flow to your heart muscle that causes injury or death to the heart muscle cells. Many heart attacks do not cause cardiac arrest. If untreated or especially massive, a heart attack can result in ventricular fibrillation (when the heart cells are basically firing uncoordinatedly, resulting in a quivering heart instead of pumping heart). This is a form of cardiac arrest.

 In theory a blow to the chest in the area of the heart can restart a fibrillating heart (it is called a precordial thump), but is rarely effective. If someone receives CPR (basically manual chest compressions) and they spontaneously recover, it is extremely likely that their heart was beating all along. CPR alone will not fix a fibrillating heart.
 
2014-03-16 12:47:28 AM  

Felgraf: fusillade762: she used her foot, stamping on Colm's ribcage
The jolt restarted his heart and paramedics took him to hospital

The jolt from being stomped on? I didn't know CPR could restart someone's heart.

Most things that require CPR *aren't* stopped hearts: Heart Attacks are generally fibrillation (arhytmic spasming/the rhythm getting farked) than utterly stopped.

CPR (or jolts) can force the heart back into regular rhythm.


Unless it's on a pediatric or infant with bradycardia and signs of hemodynamic collapse, every person getting CPR is because they show signs of questionable life status (layperson), or they have no pulsatile heart rhythm (Healthcare Provider).

A heart attack is NOT an arrythmia. A heart attack is caused by a section of the coronary artery either becoming obstructed or spasming/constricting - or if systemic blood pressure drops too low, not being perfused adequately so that the tissue becomes ischemic or starved of oxygen and nutrients.

img.fark.net

Fibrillation is a result of ischemic or irritated cardiac tissue producing an ectopic beat at just the right point on the cardiac cycle to cause the heart to quiver uncontrollably.

mykentuckyheart.com

Ventricular fibrillation can occur from a heart attack or cardiac ischemia, but there are other causes, such as channelopathies, trauma, and generalized ischemia. They are, however, the most common lethal arrythmia that people who have heart attacks develop. Ventricular Tachycardia can also develop if certain cardiac conduction channels are damaged as a result of that ischemia/infarction. (A myocardial infarction is a heart attack). In fact, lethal arrythmia is the most common cause of death within 8 hours of a heart attack.

CPR does not jolt the heart back into rhythm. It manually compresses the heart and increases intrathoracic pressure to produce a cardiac ejection and refilling. It buys time to defibrillation in the case of ventricular tachycardia or fibrillation and circulates medicine to the heart, or buys time to correct the underlying cause of asystole or pulseless electrical activity by perfusing the myocardium and other organs, but only provides 33% of the necessary cardiac output for life.

For every minute that defibrillation is delayed with CPR, the chance of neurologically intact discharge drops 10%.

www.zoll.com

We call it a chain of survival for a reason. Sudden Cardiac Arrest survival depends on every link in that chain.
 
2014-03-16 03:26:24 AM  
8I like the idea in my head that she wasn't doing CPR and she was actually wailing on her pa.
 
2014-03-16 06:35:54 AM  
hardinparamedic:...

But anyone can pick up a telephone! A nine year old doing Jason Statham roundhouses to her Dad's chest is the real hero.
 
2014-03-16 10:43:24 AM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: 8I like the idea in my head that she wasn't doing CPR and she was actually wailing on her pa.


Well that would explain why she first kicked him in the nuts, and was just working her way up to the face.
 
2014-03-16 11:19:05 AM  
hardinparamedic

Thanks for scaring me about heart attacks yet again in my life. What they don't show you on TV is most people dying when you watch them have heart failure in front of you.

I love watching the Chris Solomons rescue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w32PUDL2lb8

The dispatcher for an air ambulance crew has a heart attack in his office and is saved by his co-workers. It is scary to watch but notable how calm his rescuers are.

I've never had to do it, but I've learned from people like you, and from watching the video (hopefully) what to do.

When I last did my CPR (third time refresher) I asked the instructor why I always seem to get taught by an ex-paramedic, and he responded that PTSD is highly associated with the job and the turnover rate generally higher than say police or firefighter. Would you also find this to be true?
 
2014-03-16 11:30:36 AM  

reveal101: love watching the Chris Solomons rescue


This is one of the most inspiring videos on CPR I've ever seen.

reveal101: I've never had to do it, but I've learned from people like you, and from watching the video (hopefully) what to do.


As long as you know what to do, it's better to know it and not need to do it, than need to do it and not know.

reveal101: PTSD is highly associated with the job and the turnover rate generally higher than say police or firefighter. Would you also find this to be true?


I'd say the turnover rate with EMS has to do with many services that don't pay commensurate with the agony involved, and the general politics BS in American EMS. But PTSD is there in the older guys. The City Fire department where I live is known as a "Medic Grinder" for that reason, because it mentally fries medics. Unfortunately, we don't talk about what we see a lot, even among each other.
 
2014-03-16 11:41:46 AM  

hardinparamedic: reveal101: love watching the Chris Solomons rescue

This is one of the most inspiring videos on CPR I've ever seen.


Thank you for the response, and for your work!

Keep up the good fight, nobody thinks about these professions until they show up at your door for a loved one or themselves, and you should be paid more, imo.
 
2014-03-16 12:49:00 PM  

hardinparamedic: Ventricular fibrillation can occur from a heart attack or cardiac ischemia, but there are other causes, such as channelopathies, trauma, and generalized ischemia. They are, however, the most common lethal arrythmia that people who have heart attacks develop. Ventricular Tachycardia can also develop if certain cardiac conduction channels are damaged as a result of that ischemia/infarction. (A myocardial infarction is a heart attack). In fact, lethal arrythmia is the most common cause of death within 8 hours of a heart attack.

cocaine or amphetamines.

Occam's razor of EMS- it is drugs, or specifically, an "allergic reaction" to drugs. Drugs can cause coronary vasospasm which can cause vfibb/vtach, which may respond to a precordial thump, or a precordial kick. 

/totally precordial kicking next patient before defibrillation.

reveal101:When I last did my CPR (third time refresher) I asked the instructor why I always seem to get taught by an ex-paramedic, and he responded that PTSD is highly associated with the job and the turnover rate generally higher than say police or firefighter. Would you also find this to be true?

Horrible hours, lousy pay, no respect, no upward mobility or chance for advancement without going to nursing, graduate medicine classes, or pension jobs like police and fire departments. EMS is the retail of emergency services- once you have your license you can get on a service very quickly compared to the long drawn out processes/testing of fire and police jobs. PTSD? I rarely hear of that being the cause for leaving the field after the first few years, normally it is just wanting your life back or wanting more.

And as far as not talking about it? Nothing burnt the stress off better than swapping stories early morning with other crews and hospital staff at bars that were nice enough to open up early for night shifters. Don't remember names, don't keep counts, don't take it personally. Just enjoy the show.
 
2014-03-16 02:49:04 PM  
Ahh the precordial thump, I am old enough that it was still in the book as what you did before starting compressions in CPR class and I may have been one of the last classes it was taught in, we were told its use was optional but not encouraged as there was some debate about its use.  By the next year when I took a refresher it was removed from all the training due to all the people doing it wrong.
 
2014-03-16 03:12:13 PM  

reveal101: hardinparamedic

When I last did my CPR (third time refresher) I asked the instructor why I always seem to get taught by an ex-paramedic, and he responded that PTSD is highly associated with the job and the turnover rate generally higher than say police or firefighter. Would you also find this to be true?


In the US system, the turnover rate has more to do with the commercial nature of most EMS systems. Police and fire departments are a public service; they are funded by tax dollars with no expectation of profitability. Most EMS is provided on either a commercial or volunteer basis. With volunteers, you have limitations on staffing, response area, level of care, and quality of service can vary greatly even between two adjoining regions.

In the commercial system, you are providing a service that is just as or even more costly than police or fire services and attempting to run it as a profit-bearing business. Which means you pay your employees lower wages than municipal services, often even less than those employees could be making at a fast food restaurant. You provide bare minimum levels of staffing, maintain most of your employees in part time positions so you can avoid providing healthcare coverage, and encourage your minimally staffed operation to work longer hours because paying overtime to the guy that is already there is cheaper in the long run than hiring another employee to fill that shift.

Needless to say, the quality of care, turnover rate, and employee well-being are all much better in regions that municipally fund EMS as a public service.
 
2014-03-16 05:41:38 PM  
Ummmmmmmmmmm, so yeah, about the anaphylaxis and the fact his throat would've been completely closed at that point........ I'm calling BS on this one.
 
2014-03-16 05:48:22 PM  

kellyclan: Police and fire departments are a public service


Fire-based EMS is a horrible idea. It encourages people who have no desire to do EMS or transport to do the bare minimums necessary to get their B or P so they can ride the big red truck.

As a rule, the best services in the United States tend to be non-profit, hospital based, or county third service.
 
2014-03-17 12:06:47 AM  

hardinparamedic: Fire-based EMS is a horrible idea. It encourages people who have no desire to do EMS or transport to do the bare minimums necessary to get their B or P so they can ride the big red truck.

As a rule, the best services in the United States tend to be non-profit, hospital based, or county third service.


Right. Because although they pass the same registry exam and do the same clinical experience, working for municipal service make you less qualified.

With pensioned employees you get years of experience and a functional team (engine/squad) with many years of experience. Compared to a private service where you get a freshly patched paramedic/EMT crew where they may be trained by people with 6 months of experience.

"Best Services" is a misnomer. Under what criteria? Because of a CAAS accreditation? An accreditation created by private ambulance services? Most flight services require near 3 years of busy 911 experience to be considered an "experienced" paramedic. At a fire service that paramedic hasn't even promoted up to driver yet. The high survival rates some of the private services boast are due to good Weeners- aka the Weeners medics who make it on scene first.

Fire based services hold to the <5 minute response time for emergencies, private services struggle to make their longer response times. Fire departments don't have the push for PR that private for profit services do, doesn't mean their medics are not as proficient. Bad medics in both services, great medics in both as well. Skill being equal, I'll take the not for profit service over for profit.
 
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