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(Salon)   How we ended up with red-faced Irishmen hollering at us on TV   (salon.com) divider line 70
    More: Interesting, irishman, Americans, Irish immigrants, New Age, paramilitary, Good Friday Agreement, African-Americans, white privilege  
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3476 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Mar 2014 at 7:21 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-15 11:19:12 PM

quatchi: HairBolus: fusillade762: It is kinda funny how many Irish-American talking heads spew bile about immigrants. How conveniently they forget their own history.

I think it is called something like "new convert vigor" though this is probably the wrong phrase because I can't google anything up.

People who transition to what they see as the dominant or morally superior in-group are particularly vigorous in attacking outsiders to prove they really belong or made the right decision. This appears to happen in all sorts of contexts - you can find people saying things like "recently converts to vegetarianism are really obnoxious".

I find the phrase "no one more zealous than a convert" pretty useful.

Although specifically in the case of the Irish in America I'd go with "Last one invited up into the tree fort is the first one to vote for pulling the rope up behind him."

I also find that last one useful when in threads where RWers gleefully pull out stats about non acceptance of gay civil rights in black churches in an attempt to sow discord among two of the Dems more reliable voting blocks..


You're right, https://www.google.com/search?q=zealous+convert is a much better search item than my "new convert vigor"  it turns up a Rational Wiki page but not a Wikipedia one and is maybe relevant to left-to-right conversions such as David Horowitz, Alan Dershowitz, Michael Savage , and so on.

Your "last invited is first to exclude" is a real phenomena related to "zealous convert" but I'm sure this notion has a catchier phrasing that will turn up more relevant google hits than https://www.google.com/search?q=last+invited+is+first+to+exclude
 
2014-03-15 11:25:19 PM
theorellior :
He didn't say that. He said, Its true cause was not the black fungus that turned the prátaí to inedible mush, but a pseudo-Darwinian, proto-Milton Friedman free market ideology, insisted upon at a time when Ireland as a whole was a net exporter of food. Which is basically what the English did -- expected the Irish to bootstrap themselves into living off sunlight and water, because the corn factors were still shipping food abroad.

And that's where he's wrong. the pseudo-Darwinian, proto-Milton Friedman free market ideology did not obtain at the time.It is true that the folks who took over the Brit government in 1846 were more free-trade than the ones before, but certainly not to the extent thav they repealed the penal laws of the 1690s.

Anyway, I can see the use of the term "free market" has gotten your dander up, but in this case the "free market" failed the Irish.

My dander is not up. Research the penal laws imposed on Ireland after the Glorious Revolution. They were the main cause of the famine. The corn laws hurt at first, but they were repealed in (iirc) 1846. The penal laws were still in effect. Wikipedia has a pretty good article on them too.

I mean you no malice, and I mean none towards the author of the article, but he is wrong about that.

All the best ,
Al
 
2014-03-15 11:45:35 PM
Forget it, they're just drunk.
 
2014-03-16 12:02:19 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: FlashHarry: [img.fark.net image 186x100]

[img.fark.net image 186x100]

Ah yes, the good old days when Americans knew the correct way to format a sign

[i.imgur.com image 500x333]


Don't Dead Open Inside?
 
2014-03-16 02:36:46 AM
It's exactly the way the owners have set up this "managed democracy". They make sure public education is crap. They pay PR firms to use Ed Bernays propaganda research to build a public discourse model that keeps the poorly educated plurality arguing about "wedge issues"(read: nothing) and they hire boisterous idiots to bound debate and protect the Overton Window. Then they proceed to run the country as they see fit, completely disregarding the voter. Then they put on election theatre from time to time to keep the proles from realizing they live in a corporate dicatatorship by oligarchy.
 
2014-03-16 02:44:31 AM
Al Zeimer
And that's where he's wrong. the pseudo-Darwinian, proto-Milton Friedman free market ideology did not obtain at the time.It is true that the folks who took over the Brit government in 1846 were more free-trade than the ones before, but certainly not to the extent thav they repealed the penal laws of the 1690s.

The sort of people who are today ceaselessly squawking about "the free market" are the ideological ancestors of the English business-government ruling class, with the common thread being that whatever lines their pockets is good. The Penal Laws were merely a tool crafted to be most appropriate to the specific situation. Ideological libertarians exist only on the Internet; those who call themselves "libertarians" and have real political or economic power are invariably only saying it to score cred with dupes.
 
2014-03-16 03:45:07 AM

God-is-a-Taco: LasersHurt: God-is-a-Taco: How did Irish-Americans get so disgusting?

Salon is truly dedicated to its anti-white people clickbait
They truly have no shame

You know there are other white people right?

As I said, it's clickbait. Singling out a white ethnicity allow for more articles in the future


Goalposts moved!
 
2014-03-16 04:49:30 AM
Salon does a lot of clickbait, but it usually seem to be sex related.
'How saving myself for marriage ended with a quick divorce.'
'My date with my favorite male porn star.'
'Trying out theesomes in your marriage.'

I get a lot of headlines like that in my FB feed, many of them repeating.
 
2014-03-16 04:59:02 AM
Idiot bemoans the fact that all descendants of Irish folk have not "embraced the politics of class" and become good little communists.

Get over yourselves, Ye Irish. You are famous for poets, not insightful editorials.
 
2014-03-16 05:01:28 AM

Phil Moskowitz: It's exactly the way the owners have set up this "managed democracy". They make sure public education is crap. They pay PR firms to use Ed Bernays propaganda research to build a public discourse model that keeps the poorly educated plurality arguing about "wedge issues"(read: nothing) and they hire boisterous idiots to bound debate and protect the Overton Window. Then they proceed to run the country as they see fit, completely disregarding the voter. Then they put on election theatre from time to time to keep the proles from realizing they live in a corporate dicatatorship by oligarchy.


Make sure the tinfoil is tight.
 
2014-03-16 05:16:57 AM

Animatronik: Get over yourselves, Ye Irish. You are famous for poets, not insightful editorials.


Yeah, did you hear that Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity?

Animatronik has spoken.

Pack yer shiat the pair of you and be out of editorial town by sunset.

Way to tell 'em, there Ani.  Good job.
 
2014-03-16 07:14:27 AM

techgeek07: Not all Irish-Americans are right wingers.  Did you ever hear of Boston?


yeah a lot of right wingers up there. catholic and pro life. mostly anti gay

but they're supportive of unions. so they're labeled liberals.
they vote democrat because that's in their financial interests.
 
2014-03-16 07:40:51 AM
Has anyone quoted Blazing Saddles yet?
 
2014-03-16 08:12:24 AM

quatchi: Animatronik: Get over yourselves, Ye Irish. You are famous for poets, not insightful editorials.

Yeah, did you hear that Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity?

Animatronik has spoken.

Pack yer shiat the pair of you and be out of editorial town by sunset.

Way to tell 'em, there Ani.  Good job.


I was referring to the IRISH, not Americans of Irish descent.

Do you consider Obama to be the same as all Kenyans?
 
2014-03-16 08:13:42 AM
t3.gstatic.com
 
2014-03-16 09:52:14 AM

brainiac-dumdum: Ireland was the original colonized nation, and was subjected to a near-genocidal conquest centuries before the Holocaust. It was where the policies of the British Empire were road-tested for use in India and Africa, and where a subject population stripped of property and political rights was then blamed for its own poverty. The island's native people, despite their white skin, were viewed as savage and barbaric because they did not speak English, practiced an alien religion and hewed to unfamiliar cultural customs. During the Great Famine of the 1840s, which produced a huge wave of Irish emigration to America, the Irish poor were starved to death or driven off their own land by the millions. Yes, the potato - a plant imported from South America by the British - had been ruined by blight, but the famine itself was avoidable. Its true cause was not the black fungus that turned the prátaí to inedible mush, but a pseudo-Darwinian, proto-Milton Friedman free market ideology, insisted upon at a time when Ireland as a whole was a net exporter of food.

This is what many Irish-Americans have forgotten, or, far more likely, have never known. The Irish were a brutally oppressed people for hundreds of years. They were slaughtered, starved, kept impoverished and exploited by England for cheap labor. Sound familiar?


Of course the other interesting part is the reason for the lack of action from the UK Parliament was a belief in laissez faire, markets will sort things out if left to themselves, policies. So having "government bad"/libertarian views is particularly ironic from someone of Irish extraction.
 
2014-03-16 02:40:29 PM

xria: brainiac-dumdum: Ireland was the original colonized nation, and was subjected to a near-genocidal conquest centuries before the Holocaust. It was where the policies of the British Empire were road-tested for use in India and Africa, and where a subject population stripped of property and political rights was then blamed for its own poverty. The island's native people, despite their white skin, were viewed as savage and barbaric because they did not speak English, practiced an alien religion and hewed to unfamiliar cultural customs. During the Great Famine of the 1840s, which produced a huge wave of Irish emigration to America, the Irish poor were starved to death or driven off their own land by the millions. Yes, the potato - a plant imported from South America by the British - had been ruined by blight, but the famine itself was avoidable. Its true cause was not the black fungus that turned the prátaí to inedible mush, but a pseudo-Darwinian, proto-Milton Friedman free market ideology, insisted upon at a time when Ireland as a whole was a net exporter of food.

This is what many Irish-Americans have forgotten, or, far more likely, have never known. The Irish were a brutally oppressed people for hundreds of years. They were slaughtered, starved, kept impoverished and exploited by England for cheap labor. Sound familiar?

Of course the other interesting part is the reason for the lack of action from the UK Parliament was a belief in laissez faire, markets will sort things out if left to themselves, policies. So having "government bad"/libertarian views is particularly ironic from someone of Irish extraction.


Many Irish Americans know all of that history, or at least a large part of it. Your twisted version of Irish history, where somehow British oppression is equated with free markets for the Irish, is just plain silly.

British oppression was monarchical and dictatorial, and had no connection to "libertarian" ideals. The British starved and murdered Irish people, took their land, and effectively enslaved many of them during various periods of history. There is nothing of self-determination or limited govt in what the British did.
 
2014-03-16 10:31:39 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Xcott:

And dead people.  The recently dead are pretty nasty about it.

The recent dead mostly aren't nasty to anyone. Mostly...


Dig one up and see how nasty it is.
 
2014-03-17 03:08:04 AM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Xcott:

And dead people.  The recently dead are pretty nasty about it.

The recent dead mostly aren't nasty to anyone. Mostly...


That's odd, because I always heard the dead hate the living...

/obscure?
 
2014-03-17 04:45:04 AM
img.fark.net

"Relax Hannity, it wasn't that long ago that everyone hated the Irish for swarming over here in their potato boats and taking all the jobs."
 
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