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(Yahoo)   Putin begins his liberation of villages neighboring the Crimea from non-Russian control   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 56
    More: Obvious, Crimean, Russians, Ukraine, Russian control, Russian forces, East-West, helicopter gunships, Long-distance track event  
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4525 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2014 at 6:01 PM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-03-16 12:15:55 AM
2 votes:

eurotrash: also how do you get a carrier group in through straits of Isthmus?


You were doing pretty well until this point.
2014-03-15 06:52:05 PM
2 votes:

Begoggle: Cajnik: Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied

I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.

If he gets involved, the right wing nuts will criticize him for that.
If he doesn't get involved, the right wing nuts will criticize him for that.
They are mentally ill, you can't use logic with them.


Libya is the perfect example of him getting involved and watching them lost their shiat. They have no opinion on anything until he acts
2014-03-15 06:45:58 PM
2 votes:

Cajnik: Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied

I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.


They don't want us involved anymore than we needed to be involved in Georgia. They hate Obama so much that they will cheer for putin or anything that makes their President look bad. They nearly cratered the economy than work with him. Is truly sad
2014-03-15 06:43:59 PM
2 votes:

Cajnik: I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.



There is still a strong neocon thread running through this country that has a lot of people convinced that every single thing that happens in the world should warrant US involvement. We don't really give a fark about Ukraine, we just don't like it that Russia is doing something. It's farking childish. Our hands have been tied, anyway, by the threat of mutual nuclear annihilation that still exists, and by Europe's reliance on Russian natural resources and banking money. That has fark all to do with who is in the White House.

Strategically, let Russia get embroiled in a civil war and occupation in Ukraine. It falls under the old "never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake" saying. Russia stood by and smiled when we launched our decade-long trillion dollar boondoggle money pit in Afghanistan. Give the Ukrainians money and let them drive the Russian economy into a ditch with a nice little proxy war from the good old days. Putin seems to not understand that the Soviet Union fell apart for a reason, and that getting into a spending war with the West hasn't worked out so well for them in the past, either.
2014-03-15 06:29:49 PM
2 votes:
Not a single right wing retard in any of these Obama-bashing threads has offered up a single solution that goes beyond sanctions without starting WWIII. I guess the talking points from Rush and Breitbart didn't get to the part where they tell you what to think about actual actions we should be taking. This shiat is getting old, so put up or STFU.

And, no, "training exercises" and a carrier group in the region aren't going to do shiat. Dubya didn't start WWIII over Georgia, and we aren't starting WWIII over Ukraine. It does not matter who is in the White House, that is the American position. You're either with us or against us, right?
2014-03-16 02:09:54 AM
1 votes:

grimlock1972: you know the more i think about this entire mess, and how repubs are using it to bash Obama , i am willing to bet even if he wanted a declaration of war the house would probably vote against out it of fear a victory would make Obama look good.


The House tried to attach IRS reform to the Ukraine aid bill.  Even McCain stood up and called them assholes.
2014-03-16 01:20:47 AM
1 votes:

uber humper: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 554x730]

We've purged our country of men.  Obama is the reflection of what we are now

We were something completely different.


So by men, you mean "batshiat bugfark crazy motherfarkers". That man was like a relic of a bygone era even when he was contemporary.
2014-03-16 01:14:37 AM
1 votes:
you know the more i think about this entire mess, and how repubs are using it to bash Obama , i am willing to bet even if he wanted a declaration of war the house would probably vote against out it of fear a victory would make Obama look good.
2014-03-16 12:30:17 AM
1 votes:

uber humper: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 554x730]

We've purged our country of men.  Obama is the reflection of what we are now

We were something completely different.


Of all the Manly Men you could have chosen, you picked him?  Ok.
2014-03-16 12:23:51 AM
1 votes:
uber humper: If there were a stronger man (or woman) as commander and chief, it could be different. ... Regan or Maggie? Putin would probably would back down.

Like Reagan persevered in Lebanon?  Seems like backing down to me.
2014-03-16 12:16:42 AM
1 votes:

Keith Dudemeister: uber humper: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 554x730]

We've purged our country of men.  Obama is the reflection of what we are now

We were something completely different.

Do you write bumper stickers for a living, dude?


Not to mention that man damn nearly started World War 3 in the Korean War. He wanted to drop 40 goddamn nukes on North Korea and actually tried to circumvent the President to do so.
2014-03-16 12:16:42 AM
1 votes:

netcentric: I reject the whole Obama has a Wimp Factor thing.


Fortunately, it's just something the US right wing has talked itself into.  I doubt any other world leader thinks of Obama as a pushover.
2014-03-15 11:44:29 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: flexflint: Nutsac_Jim: Mentat: Nutsac_Jim: Ukraine was picking its noise. Georgia was mid scale military action into Ossetian and they deserved a beating.

You are right, they are exactly the same. Keep saying it, though. Dubya and Georgia Dubya and Georgia Maybe even a few retards will believe it.

Putin provoked the conflict with Georgia.  He tried to do the same with Ukraine, but they didn't bite which is why he's left with Crimea.

Enlighten us into how Putin tricked Georgia into invading Tskhinvali.

You're saying Georgia invaded Russia unprovoked?

Is  Tskhinvali  Russia?


Crimea isn't either, but it almost was. Weeks ago, Putin started sending in guys to give everyone Russian passports. The same thing happened in South-Ossetia.
2014-03-15 11:40:35 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: flexflint: Nutsac_Jim: Mentat: Nutsac_Jim: Ukraine was picking its noise. Georgia was mid scale military action into Ossetian and they deserved a beating.

You are right, they are exactly the same. Keep saying it, though. Dubya and Georgia Dubya and Georgia Maybe even a few retards will believe it.

Putin provoked the conflict with Georgia.  He tried to do the same with Ukraine, but they didn't bite which is why he's left with Crimea.

Enlighten us into how Putin tricked Georgia into invading Tskhinvali.

You're saying Georgia invaded Russia unprovoked?

Is  Tskhinvali  Russia?


No. Just like Crimea, South Ossetia was wanting to separate from Georgia and possibly join Russia. However unlike Ukraine which sat idilly by, Georgia sent in their military which resulted in Georgia sending in theirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_War

So the two are very similar except with one difference. Ukraine didn't blink like Georgia did.
2014-03-15 11:39:00 PM
1 votes:

uber humper: You're confused, holmes. Putin said for America not to get involved, and America didn't.


Except for when Obama shot an angry look, and Putin's client state unilaterally disarmed, with the only condition being "Please, Mr. Obama, don't hurt us."

Night, man.
2014-03-15 11:00:53 PM
1 votes:

uber humper: Biggie China. Had and agreement since day one. What it's worth?? But I gotta say, it would be a nice time for China to grab a few islands


Yeah, China is such a good friend to Russia that they abstained from voting against the resolution of condemnation at the UNSC.

There is just not a credible Axis here to take on the rest of the world.
2014-03-15 10:55:55 PM
1 votes:
.find_in_page{background-color:#ffff00 !important;padding:0px;margin:0px;overflow:visible !important;}.findysel{background-color:#ff9632 !important;padding:0px;margin:0px;overflow:visible !important;}Nutsac_Jim:

Ukraine was picking its noise.  Georgia was mid scale military action into  Ossetian and they deserved a beating.

You are right, they are exactly the same.   Keep saying it, though.  Dubya and Georgia  Dubya and Georgia   Maybe even a few retards will believe it.


So if Canadian separatists seized 20% of Montana and the Montana and ND national guard mobilised to regain control of the territory you believe they deserve a spanking from Canadian forces because...

To be honest, Russia entered Georgia and US did nothing because Sjakasvili was a wee bit of a loon and Georgia is in central asia and noone cares. Ukraine is in Europe but Putin tried the same thing here, bolstered by the non response from Georgia invasion by Bush administration.

What people seem to not get is that Putin has just signed his exit papers, sure Crimea will most likely be Russian from now on but when economic sanctions start the Putin supporters with money in Cyprys, UK, Switzerland etc will turn on Kremlin like milk on a hot day.

Eastern Europe has tried for years to get away from Russian gas dependencies and this will probably get the EU to provide the needed funding to do that. Putin's other dreams of a eastern EU dominated by Russia is also gone, even Kazakstan is not moving away from Russia and that is a huge loss for Putin.

In effect, the best thing for Obama to do is what he is doing, starting sabre rattling like some people want will only provide Putin with the "external threat" he needs to hang on to power.

Kudos to the Ukrainian gov't that is doing everything rigth with non violent resistance and reliance on EU and US moral support.

Obama has done things right so far.
2014-03-15 10:36:10 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Mentat: Nutsac_Jim: Ukraine was picking its noise. Georgia was mid scale military action into Ossetian and they deserved a beating.

You are right, they are exactly the same. Keep saying it, though. Dubya and Georgia Dubya and Georgia Maybe even a few retards will believe it.

Putin provoked the conflict with Georgia.  He tried to do the same with Ukraine, but they didn't bite which is why he's left with Crimea.

Enlighten us into how Putin tricked Georgia into invading Tskhinvali.


You identify populations within your target population that are ripe for exploitation.  Maybe it's a Russophone group.  You give them Russian passports, remind them how the central government doesn't appreciate them.  Maybe it's a separatist group that you arm and fund.  When the central government pushes back, Russia rushes in to protect the separatist population.  It's what Russia did in Moldova, Abkhazia and Georgia and it's what they're doing in Ukraine.
2014-03-15 10:09:15 PM
1 votes:

The Bestest: Any threat of a new actor coming into nuclear weapons is generally met with the heaviest of sanctions and cyberattacks.


And that's all we'll have at our disposal, even against "non-enemies" like Ukraine - people we'd prefer to be friends with - now that our promises are in danger of looking hollow.

Arrangements like Budapest are the "smart diplomacy" that people like to trot out as the solution to the world's international problems. It is very much in our best interest to show nations that are friendly to us that our word actually means something - the outcome of the Ukraine situation will be a very visible signal to similar countries about what alliance with the U.S. is actually worth.
2014-03-15 09:58:38 PM
1 votes:

BravadoGT: Obama gave up missile defense in eastern Europe without getting anything from Putin in exchange. Maybe he should reconsider that decision.


Yes, and in doing so he sent the message to them that we no longer view them as a credible counterweight to our global power, which has driven them absolutely crazy.

Seriously, you're underestimating what a head-case post-Soviet Russia is.
2014-03-15 09:49:40 PM
1 votes:

Por que tan serioso: Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?

Farking nothing! Who cares??? Baltic people problems bro.


Euxine problems
2014-03-15 09:45:05 PM
1 votes:
I figured out how Obama can handle this.

He can run for office in Russia!

1. Gets Obama out of the US
2. polarize the citizens.
3. Will weaken their military
4. Will destroy their healthcare system
5. Lose respect of foreign countries, they'll see Russia as a pushover
6. Will get Russia deeply in debt
7. Make the rich, richer. Keeping the kleptocracy alive

And that's just the top 7. There really is no downside


sanderspoli323.files.wordpress.com
Come on Guys, we got him elected here, we can do it in Russia, then on to Iran, then North Korea, then The Netherlands
2014-03-15 09:41:23 PM
1 votes:

Nutsac_Jim: Ukraine was picking its noise. Georgia was mid scale military action into Ossetian and they deserved a beating.

You are right, they are exactly the same. Keep saying it, though. Dubya and Georgia Dubya and Georgia Maybe even a few retards will believe it.


Putin provoked the conflict with Georgia.  He tried to do the same with Ukraine, but they didn't bite which is why he's left with Crimea.
2014-03-15 09:36:05 PM
1 votes:

flexflint: Mrtraveler01: HoratioGates: In the meanwhile, start shipping blankets to Europe.  It could be a cold rest of the winter.

Luckily it's been unseasonably warm over there this winter. Guess that's where all the Global Warming went.

Last year, it suddenly started snowing on March 11th; we're not out of the woods yet.

But personally, I could get by, I'll happily wear a sweater or two, just to support the Ukrainians. I say let Putin close the taps, we'll see how fast he starts missing the cash.


I wonder how long it will be before Russia starts missing Ukrainian agricultural products.  The frozen tundra is a shiat place to grow tasty things like food.
2014-03-15 09:19:01 PM
1 votes:
SithLord: Unless they hear it from the three Ms - Maddow, Matthews or Maher, to a liberal, it's not true. I interact with figments of my imagination because it's so much easier than dealing with real people.

FTFY
2014-03-15 08:37:30 PM
1 votes:

bim1154: Strongly worded letter in the near future.... again.


No... massive economic sanctions that will hit Putin's kleptocrat political allies right in the wallet.
2014-03-15 08:34:50 PM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied


We dont need Putin for that.  We have Obama for that.
2014-03-15 08:27:30 PM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: bim1154: Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?

Keep mouth shut instead of continuing to make an ass out of one's self.

Now THAT'S effective foreign policy.

Do nothing.


Better than drawing redlines that are gong to be ignored makign you look even weaker .  Better than making a meaningless gesture of giving the Ukranians MREs.  Those  things are all worse than doing nothing because they make you look weak and ineffective.  This has all the earmarks fo a bunch fo handwinging "but we have to do something" but to afraid to really do anything.

Like it or not folks Cold War II started years before this.  Russian has developed a deployed a new ICBM, New SLBM and new SSBN. It is refurbishing old bombers (granted not in great numbers) and is now doing the old game of overflights of US /NATO forces and incursions into our airspace.  There was the invasion of Georgia, the assistance to Syria and helping Iran with its Nuclear program and the sale of Weapons to Hugo Chavez.


As I have posted earlier  Time to start pushing back
 

Obviously not but you remember when Obama tried to reset the US Russian relationship by giving into Russian concerns about things like missile defense? Well you reverse course plus.
You start up Missile Defense in Poland and the Czech Republic again.

Plus:
You put an Expeditionary Air Wing in Poland on a 6 month rotation basis. (cheaper than the whole station personal over there for two to four years with their families nonsense). You do the same with an Army Armor or Mech. Brigade in the Czech Republic.

Also on rotation you put a Marine Air Ground Task Force in one of the Baltic states and form a Baltic Sea Squadron with some Arleigh Burke ABM capable Destroyers. You stick a Special Force training Team and Patriot battery in Georgia

To this I add    A Patriot battery and Military training teams in Kiev to protect equipment sent to and  help train Ukrainian forces in its use. We have thousands of APCs, IFVs tanks and.artillery not to mentions small arms much of it obsolete for our use but still serviceable.  Better still Some of our newer NATO allies have a lot stuff from their days as Soviet Union slaves that they would be happy to get rid of because it is not to NATO standard but the Ukrainians would already now how to use them


You pay for at least part of it by further reducing forces if not eliminating those in Germany Spain Italy etc.
You could ask our NATO "allies" to share the load but since most of them would get their panties in a wad don't count on it except the former Soviet slave states.
Of course this means rethinking your defense cuts and instead of cutting trigger pullers and equipment you start cutting back on civil servants, DoD and Service vice, deputy, assistant and under secretaries, Flag officers and all their staffs, Stateside DoD dependent schools etc, etc, etc, etc.
This would not even impact or pivot toward the Pacific that much if done right.
2014-03-15 08:10:16 PM
1 votes:

swamp_of_dumb: shower_in_my_socks: Convince Ukraine to shut off all power and water to Crimea


The Ukrainian interim president has said this week that they will do no such thing. You would also hurt the ethnic Ukrainians and the Tatars.

And oh: it appears the Russians have seized a gas tower at Kerson .... that's North of Crimea, *inside* Ukraine.
2014-03-15 07:40:52 PM
1 votes:

Animatronik: So now we see the crowning victory, I mean utter and complete failure, of 5 years of Clinton/Obama policy.

It would be fair to say that Bush's handling was awkward and misguided at times. But he understood what Putin is and how you communicate with such a creature.



"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul." - George W. Bush speaking about Putin in 2001

And then, after 8 years in the White House, Dubya sat there and did jack shiat while Putin invaded Georgia. There's your f*cking precedent set by an American president. So I can see why the GOP apologists want to downplay that bullshiat and point fingers in every other direction. The Bush years were such a culsterf*ck for this country and the rest of the world that you guys can't even admit that they happened. You just point the finger at the Dems who came before and after him without any justification purely to save face. What a farking embarrassment.
2014-03-15 07:35:09 PM
1 votes:

netcentric: I reject the whole Obama has a Wimp Factor thing.

But who knows what Putin thinks.


He think like a life-long government bureaucrat who mysteriously holds a net worth of $70 billion, i.e. like a criminal.
2014-03-15 07:30:12 PM
1 votes:
I reject the whole Obama has a Wimp Factor thing.

But who knows what Putin thinks.
2014-03-15 07:24:34 PM
1 votes:
Has the Ukrainian government asked for western milItary intervention?

I'm just wondering because I can see some of the new Govt wondering if Russia taking over one of the poorest areas of the country that is almost entirely filled with ethnic Russians might not be the worst thing in the world - they lose a bunch of poor people and increase the proportion of the population who are Ukrainian, which would greatly reduce the chance of another pro-Russian government getting elected.
2014-03-15 07:21:18 PM
1 votes:

Animatronik: So now we see the crowning victory, I mean utter and complete failure, of 5 years of Clinton/Obama policy.

It would be fair to say that Bush's handling was awkward and misguided at times. But he understood what Putin is and how you communicate with such a creature.

Obama policy is to make threats and do nothing. This is so clear now that he has no cards in his hand, and with no cards we are more likely to wind up in a major global conflict just as we are extricating ourselves from Afghanistan.

When you take no action and back away, things get more out of control, which in turn leads to bigger conflicts later. We can't jump into a war but we need to recognize that failing to act after issuing threats and ultimatums comes with a price. Obama is not big on foreign policy and he needs somebody better than nimrods like Kerry and Rice advising him.


You do understand that Russia is the most internationally isolated that it's ever been, and that it's economy is EXTREMELY vulnerable right now, don't you?

The only winning move for them here was not to play, and they blew it, and now they're back to their original post-Soviet irrelevance.

Face it, when Obama took office, we were moving in the direction of a multi-polar world, with the US sharing global hegemony with the EU and China.  But now, 1 economic meltdown later, the US is back as the undisputed sole-superpower of the world.

And that just Drives.  You.  Crazy.
2014-03-15 07:06:01 PM
1 votes:

Animatronik: So now we see the crowning victory, I mean utter and complete failure, of 5 years of Clinton/Obama policy.

It would be fair to say that Bush's handling was awkward and misguided at times. But he understood what Putin is and how you communicate with such a creature.

Obama policy is to make threats and do nothing. This is so clear now that he has no cards in his hand, and with no cards we are more likely to wind up in a major global conflict just as we are extricating ourselves from Afghanistan.

When you take no action and back away, things get more out of control, which in turn leads to bigger conflicts later. We can't jump into a war but we need to recognize that failing to act after issuing threats and ultimatums comes with a price. Obama is not big on foreign policy and he needs somebody better than nimrods like Kerry and Rice advising him.


..are you really THAT bummed that we're not at war in Syria right now?
2014-03-15 07:03:02 PM
1 votes:
So now we see the crowning victory, I mean utter and complete failure, of 5 years of Clinton/Obama policy.

It would be fair to say that Bush's handling was awkward and misguided at times. But he understood what Putin is and how you communicate with such a creature.

Obama policy is to make threats and do nothing. This is so clear now that he has no cards in his hand, and with no cards we are more likely to wind up in a major global conflict just as we are extricating ourselves from Afghanistan.

When you take no action and back away, things get more out of control, which in turn leads to bigger conflicts later. We can't jump into a war but we need to recognize that failing to act after issuing threats and ultimatums comes with a price. Obama is not big on foreign policy and he needs somebody better than nimrods like Kerry and Rice advising him.
2014-03-15 07:00:03 PM
1 votes:

Cajnik: Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied

I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.


The Soviet Union also didn't begin invading it's western neighbors...

That said, I don't know what the hell we can or should do on this.  Russia may stop, they may not, and if they don't we eventually have to do *something*, but I think faulting the president for not immediately nuking Russia is a bit retarded to put it politely.
2014-03-15 06:56:56 PM
1 votes:

Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?


Turn tail and run.... back to my testosterone free lifestyle  ?
2014-03-15 06:56:12 PM
1 votes:
This isn't a US problem-- we are not going to start a war that close to the borders of our European allies unilaterally.  If NATO wants to get involved (at the request of Europe) then we'll support it, otherwise it's basically sanctions and then we're washing our hands of the matter.

This isn't Afghanistan or Iraq where the nearby US allies (India, Israel and the Sauds) either don't give a shiat or are actively in favor of us blowing shiat up.  It's a matter of the Europeans dealing with their neighbors until they actually ask for help.

// I'm not really sure why some people find this going over their heads.  This isn't some deep, complex and nuanced section of politics, this is 101-level shiat.
2014-03-15 06:54:20 PM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: Libya is the perfect example of him getting involved and watching them lost their shiat. They have no opinion on anything until he acts



To this day, I still don't know if the GOP was for or against US military action in Libya.

And considering that CPAC backed the isolationist, anti-neocon Rand Paul, I suspect that they don't know either.
2014-03-15 06:49:09 PM
1 votes:

Cajnik: Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied

I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.


If he gets involved, the right wing nuts will criticize him for that.
If he doesn't get involved, the right wing nuts will criticize him for that.
They are mentally ill, you can't use logic with them.
2014-03-15 06:36:53 PM
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied


I haven't been reading these threads on Fark and I am honestly surprised by this thread. Why the fark should Obama even get involved? It's not America's problem, and there's a reason the Cold War never got hot.
2014-03-15 06:36:51 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: Almost Everybody Poops: Now THAT'S effective foreign policy.

Do nothing.


Actually, we and our European Allies are going to begin sanctions on Monday. There really is no excuse for being this willfully ignorant.


Oh I'm aware of that, I was simply mocking the person I was responding to.
2014-03-15 06:36:14 PM
1 votes:
Also, there was a UNSC vote this morning denouncing the Crimea referendum. It predictably failed due to Russian veto, but the vote was otherwise 13-0, with China abstaining.
2014-03-15 06:35:55 PM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: Not a single right wing retard in any of these Obama-bashing threads has offered up a single solution that goes beyond sanctions without starting WWIII. I guess the talking points from Rush and Breitbart didn't get to the part where they tell you what to think about actual actions we should be taking. This shiat is getting old, so put up or STFU.

And, no, "training exercises" and a carrier group in the region aren't going to do shiat. Dubya didn't start WWIII over Georgia, and we aren't starting WWIII over Ukraine. It does not matter who is in the White House, that is the American position. You're either with us or against us, right?


Most of the solutions they offer do nothing in the short term.

- Restart the missile shield program (while ignoring that Putin invaded Georgia while the missile shield program was active)
- Send natural gas to Europe (while ignoring the massive logistical and economic issues that make it difficult to do that)

I think a lot of the criticism aimed at Obama should more rightfully be aimed at Western Europe, who has perfected the carrot-and-carrot approach to foreign policy.  With Germany addicted to Russian oil and Britain addicted to Russian cash and all of them still traumatized by two world wars, they tend to act as a limiter (for better or for worse) on what Obama can actually do.   Certainly, the US and Europe will need to make some long-term changes in energy policy and such after this, but I'm really not sure what can be done in the short term except for sanctions.  Parking a carrier group within range of Russian naval bases (and their associated defense systems) might not have the effect the bear-wrestlers are anticipating.
2014-03-15 06:34:22 PM
1 votes:

bsharitt: I'm not saying go to war, but maybe park a carrier group in the Black Sea and have the Air Force bases in Turkey and German do a few extra exercises just to see if Putin thinks things over.


The GHW Bush is in the Mediterranean on standby and Polish forces are on Ukraine's western border.

BigNumber12: Russia invades a Russian village?

EVERYONE PANIC


It's a village in -Ukraine- and if true, this marks the first Russian movement in non-Crimean Ukraine.
2014-03-15 06:31:09 PM
1 votes:

Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?



Write a paper advocating disarming the west at the peak of the cold war?
2014-03-15 06:31:02 PM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: Now THAT'S effective foreign policy.

Do nothing.



Actually, we and our European Allies are going to begin sanctions on Monday. There really is no excuse for being this willfully ignorant.
2014-03-15 06:30:22 PM
1 votes:

Almost Everybody Poops: bim1154: Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?

Keep mouth shut instead of continuing to make an ass out of one's self.

Now THAT'S effective foreign policy.

Do nothing.


Soo..pretty much continue what we're doing, minus the planned sanctions.

What is this guy, an appeaser?
2014-03-15 06:27:38 PM
1 votes:
Stopped in for the right wingers fawning over putin because it makes Obama look bad, in their opinion. Leaving satisfied
2014-03-15 06:26:23 PM
1 votes:

jnapier: [www.powerlineblog.com image 543x540]


Ask Georgia.
2014-03-15 06:25:26 PM
1 votes:

bim1154: Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?

Keep mouth shut instead of continuing to make an ass out of one's self.


Now THAT'S effective foreign policy.

Do nothing.
2014-03-15 06:23:21 PM
1 votes:

Sinbox: jnapier: If you he doesnt stop we are going to have our community organizer send a strongly worded letter

So, you're in Obama's shoes right now. What would YOU do?


Keep mouth shut instead of continuing to make an ass out of one's self.
2014-03-15 06:21:01 PM
1 votes:

Hector Remarkable: We need to begin massive nuclear strikes against Moscow NOW! Why is Obama delaying?


Because he's Putin's biatch.
2014-03-15 06:11:45 PM
1 votes:
I'm not saying go to war, but maybe park a carrier group in the Black Sea and have the Air Force bases in Turkey and German do a few extra exercises just to see if Putin thinks things over.
2014-03-15 06:04:04 PM
1 votes:
Dobby's going Full Stalin now!
 
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