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(BBC-US)   Good news: your house is on land the church owned 500 years ago. Now pay up   (bbc.com) divider line 80
    More: Fail, chancel repair liability, legal case, repairs  
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11306 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2014 at 1:23 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



80 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-15 01:26:28 PM  
Does nobody read the terms and conditions when they agree to these things?
 
2014-03-15 01:31:02 PM  
It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.

If this law is on the books I've got to imagine that there is some equally obscure law to get around it as well.  Something like donating a sheep to the local reverend or some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart hands you a sword.
 
2014-03-15 01:31:51 PM  
In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".
 
2014-03-15 01:34:57 PM  

Makh: Does nobody read the terms and conditions when they agree to these things?


Does nobody RTFA?
 
2014-03-15 01:34:59 PM  

Makh: Does nobody read the terms and conditions when they agree to these things?


A law dating back to Henry VIII, and whether or not the church has registered your property doesn't always show up on your deed of title?

Yeah, a clear case of the buyers not doing due diligence...
 
2014-03-15 01:36:56 PM  
Title insurance must be a real biatch in Ye Olde England.
 
2014-03-15 01:37:14 PM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-15 01:41:58 PM  
Getting together with your neighbours and hiring an arsonist to take care of the crumbling churches would be a cheaper option.
 
2014-03-15 01:43:14 PM  

Jebdiahbob: It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.

If this law is on the books I've got to imagine that there is some equally obscure law to get around it as well.  Something like donating a sheep to the local reverend or some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart hands you a sword.


Look, supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses. If I went round, saying I was an emperor because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me; they'd put me away!
 
2014-03-15 01:44:53 PM  
Old nation problems.
 
2014-03-15 01:45:26 PM  
We should leave England and start our own country!
 
2014-03-15 01:45:55 PM  

iheartscotch: Jebdiahbob: It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.

If this law is on the books I've got to imagine that there is some equally obscure law to get around it as well.  Something like donating a sheep to the local reverend or some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart hands you a sword.

Look, supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses. If I went round, saying I was an emperor because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me; they'd put me away!


Bloody peasant
 
2014-03-15 01:46:50 PM  
Seems like a simple problem to fix.  It is a 500 year old law, repeal it!  Its not like the Church or England is a political powerhouse anymore.  You have representation in parliament, If they can't get a law repealed which benefits one small group at the expense of a larger group vote them out and try again.
 
2014-03-15 01:47:31 PM  

Cheesehead_Dave: Old nation problems.


this.
 
2014-03-15 01:50:11 PM  

skankboy: We should leave England and start our own country!


Nah...it'd never work.
 
2014-03-15 01:52:39 PM  
HK-MP5-SD:  You have representation in parliament, If they can't get a law repealed which benefits one small group at the expense of a larger group vote them out and try again.

Y'mean like we do in the States?
 
2014-03-15 01:55:04 PM  
This does not help the accusations churches are only in it for the money.  Hold a bake sale or something; twisting people's arms with medieval laws does not help the gospel of Christ.
 
2014-03-15 01:55:29 PM  
This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time; or 2) require Congress to eliminate an old law for every new law enacted.  Preferably both.

If they want to pass some new law, they'll have to decide which old law will cause the least harm once it's eliminated.  It would be the legal equivalent of "survival of the fittest", and, IMHO, that would make for a much better body of laws.

Imagine the quandary that would put some lawmakers in: having to go on record to renew something like the '64 Civil Rights Act when they're closet racists and/or "small government" diehards!  Vote no and you'd lose or enrage a large population of voters.  Either way, they'd use that vote to challenge you in the next election, and a suddenly disenfranchised population just might finally vote your ass out of office!
 
2014-03-15 02:01:41 PM  

HK-MP5-SD: Seems like a simple problem to fix.  It is a 500 year old law, repeal it!  Its not like the Church or England is a political powerhouse anymore.  You have representation in parliament, If they can't get a law repealed which benefits one small group at the expense of a larger group vote them out and try again.


No bills of attainder have been passed since 1820 in the UK.
 
2014-03-15 02:04:08 PM  

indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time; or 2) require Congress to eliminate an old law for every new law enacted.  Preferably both.


I always thought this was a good idea. How can ignorance of the law NOT be an excuse when there is no possible way to learn millions of laws?
 
2014-03-15 02:04:34 PM  

indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time; or 2) require Congress to eliminate an old law for every new law enacted.  Preferably both.

If they want to pass some new law, they'll have to decide which old law will cause the least harm once it's eliminated.  It would be the legal equivalent of "survival of the fittest", and, IMHO, that would make for a much better body of laws.

Imagine the quandary that would put some lawmakers in: having to go on record to renew something like the '64 Civil Rights Act when they're closet racists and/or "small government" diehards!  Vote no and you'd lose or enrage a large population of voters.  Either way, they'd use that vote to challenge you in the next election, and a suddenly disenfranchised population just might finally vote your ass out of office!


That is fine until Ted Cruz filibusters the law to make rape illegal since Obama is against rape.
 
2014-03-15 02:07:12 PM  

skankboy: We should leave England and start our own country!


Take the assholes with you. There's a precedent to show they'll thrive, but still be assholes!
 
2014-03-15 02:08:09 PM  
"And for each and every propety by which ye live upon, which is property owned in the present or at one time by the house of the Lord my father, maker of all lands and all that is known, ye shall pay inordinate sums of thine earthly profits to the registrant ecclesiastical owners of thine property, for thy holy upkeep and general wear-and-tear."

ACCOUNTANTS 2:16
 
2014-03-15 02:08:45 PM  

GoldDude: Getting together with your neighbours and hiring an arsonist to take care of the crumbling churches would be a cheaper option.


Too bad these guys are dead or in jail:

www.anus.com

(bonus: hotlinked from "anus.com")
 
2014-03-15 02:10:38 PM  
 GoldDude: Getting together with your neighbours and hiring an arsonist to take care of the crumbling churches would be a cheaper option.

So go from owing them for fairly minor repairs to owing them to rebuild an entire church?  Great idea Batman.

/well, unless you were advocating the burning of *The* Church rather than *a* church
 
2014-03-15 02:10:45 PM  
Is Adverse Possession a legal principle in the UK?
 
2014-03-15 02:14:12 PM  
Quick question: In the time that this was passed, was it expected that EVERYONE would pay this (noble and peasant) or just the nobility? If the former then you can't hold a single household responsible for what everyone in the area should be paying. If the latter, then whomever is the local Duke, Barron, or Earl should be paying (and not the homeowner unless they hold the title to the nobility that should be paying).
 
2014-03-15 02:15:31 PM  

Seraphym: "And for each and every propety by which ye live upon, which is property owned in the present or at one time by the house of the Lord my father, maker of all lands and all that is known, ye shall pay inordinate sums of thine earthly profits to the registrant ecclesiastical owners of thine property, for thy holy upkeep and general wear-and-tear."

ACCOUNTANTS 2:16


I have a very real urge to print that out in old style script on parchment-like paper and hang it in my office.
 
2014-03-15 02:17:44 PM  

HK-MP5-SD: Seems like a simple problem to fix.  It is a 500 year old law, repeal it!  Its not like the Church or England is a political powerhouse anymore.  You have representation in parliament, If they can't get a law repealed which benefits one small group at the expense of a larger group vote them out and try again.


Actually one couple ended up losing their case against the church on this because of the house of lords. Which are appointed and can't be voted out.
 
2014-03-15 02:19:59 PM  

Jebdiahbob: It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.


Part 1) is essentially what the government dealt with in 1993(ish) - they basically gave the churches that have these rights a decade to investigate and register them if they wished, at which point if the church in question wanted to maintain their rights they would be added to the title deed of the properties in question, I think that period is either over or finishes soon, so buyers will know whether they have such liabilities when they buy, and will have the details and risks explained to them by their solicitor (and probably it will just lead to affected properties having a small amount extra added to their insurance for most people affected).


It is affecting certain property values far more than it should due to confusion and uncertainty, which in theory should be resolved now or in the near future (when the registration period ends).


One thing people should note, is that as far as I am aware the only church that has used this law did so on a property that had the liability spelled out in their title deed, and the property had been bought for half the price of other nearby similar properties from what I remember.


Some church lawyer also wrote about the case and said it was probably a misunderstanding anyway - the church is question applied for a grant for the repairs from some charity/agency that funds such things, and one of their terms is that you must have exhausted all other options to fund before they would step in - and presumably whoever was dealing with it at the church was away of the Chancel Repair liability available to the church so they pursued it, when the more standard advice would be that pursuing such liabilities on properties that had not regularly contributed to the church maintenance in the past would not be needed to satisfy the terms of the grant in question.


Of course the church councils have been left with the option of either investigating and registering properties (and pissing off the owners), or letting it lapse (which potentially could make them liable personally if it was considered a dereliction of the fiduciary responsibilities to the church in basically giving away an asset).
 
2014-03-15 02:22:08 PM  
Valiente:
Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

That is a new one.  In America, I think it would refer to an invasive procedure to correct a case of cranio-rectal inversion.

"Does Bob still have his head up his arse?"
"Not anymore, Joe and I performed some field advice surgery."
"Good man.  Field conditions, huh?  Did you have enough whiskey for the anaesthetic and sterilization bits?"
"For Joe and I, yeah.  For Bob, not so much."
"Right-o.  So who is next on your advice surgery schedule...giving Paul his much overdue metatarsal-rectal graft?"
"My foot up his arse?  Pencil it in for next week."
 
2014-03-15 02:22:19 PM  
"It is medieval madness," said the 41-year-old,

wrong.  img.fark.net
 
2014-03-15 02:28:21 PM  

beverly8: "It is medieval madness," said the 41-year-old,

wrong.  [img.fark.net image 230x300]


Yeah, if that guy had bothered to look, he'd have seen it was clearly "KISS".
 
2014-03-15 02:31:24 PM  

indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;


That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.
 
2014-03-15 02:33:41 PM  

Ishidan: Valiente:
Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

That is a new one.  In America, I think it would refer to an invasive procedure to correct a case of cranio-rectal inversion.

"Does Bob still have his head up his arse?"
"Not anymore, Joe and I performed some field advice surgery."
"Good man.  Field conditions, huh?  Did you have enough whiskey for the anaesthetic and sterilization bits?"
"For Joe and I, yeah.  For Bob, not so much."
"Right-o.  So who is next on your advice surgery schedule...giving Paul his much overdue metatarsal-rectal graft?"
"My foot up his arse?  Pencil it in for next week."


Pencilling in an arse-footing is a good way to snap off the tip.
 
2014-03-15 02:42:17 PM  

hitlersbrain: How can ignorance of the law NOT be an excuse when there is no possible way to learn millions of laws?


If you think the government wants you to be informed, try rattling off a section of the motor vehicle code to a cop who just pulled you over by mistake. But you might want to bring a bandage to wrap up the crack he'll put in your skull.
 
2014-03-15 02:46:22 PM  

Seraphym: "And for each and every propety by which ye live upon, which is property owned in the present or at one time by the house of the Lord my father, maker of all lands and all that is known, ye shall pay inordinate sums of thine earthly profits to the registrant ecclesiastical owners of thine property, for thy holy upkeep and general wear-and-tear."

ACCOUNTANTS 2:16


/ I will profit from this
// with your permission of course
/// land surveyor
 
2014-03-15 02:49:27 PM  

Jebdiahbob: It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.

If this law is on the books I've got to imagine that there is some equally obscure law to get around it as well.  Something like donating a sheep to the local reverend or some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart hands you a sword.


A waiver from the King.
 
2014-03-15 02:50:45 PM  

Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".


Was thinking that too.  I'm assuming that they are using surgery in a similar fashion to how surgery is used to refer to a doctors office, and not just the actual practice of surgery.
 
2014-03-15 02:54:01 PM  

DigitalCoffee: Quick question: In the time that this was passed, was it expected that EVERYONE would pay this (noble and peasant) or just the nobility? If the former then you can't hold a single household responsible for what everyone in the area should be paying. If the latter, then whomever is the local Duke, Barron, or Earl should be paying (and not the homeowner unless they hold the title to the nobility that should be paying).


Most likely the laws simple states Landowner.  Which at the time would have been a Noble, as commoners did not own land.  But now that commoners can be land owners, they are subject to the same laws.  Yay?
 
2014-03-15 02:56:00 PM  
Just ask the government to refund all of the property tax you & your ancestors were paying on the churches land for the last 500 years. Donate what the church is asking for from that and write it off as a tax receipt.
 
2014-03-15 02:56:20 PM  
Geez, just ask people who live in housing developments where the land's mineral rights are owned by someone else and improvements in technology have now allowed that oil deep in the ground under the development can now be drilled for, what it's like to get screwed.  Some developers fail to tell potential homeowners about the "mineral rights thing", so I guess it's kind of a shock when a company starts putting up pumps throughout the development.
 
2014-03-15 02:57:38 PM  
"No, we don't have to pay your charges.  We spoke to God, and we've got an understanding.  You may want to contact Him."
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-15 02:57:40 PM  
It's basically like living in a tax overlay district. We have them in America for schools, water plants, sewers, etc. In England they have them for local churches.

The huge fee in the article is the legal fee for somebody trying to sue for the right not to pay taxes. In England, the loser pays.
 
2014-03-15 03:01:16 PM  

xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.


There is no Federal law regarding murder.  That's a state thing.
 
2014-03-15 03:01:24 PM  

hitlersbrain: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time; or 2) require Congress to eliminate an old law for every new law enacted.  Preferably both.

I always thought this was a good idea. How can ignorance of the law NOT be an excuse when there is no possible way to learn millions of laws?


Whew, glad you guys aren't part of any legislative body.
 
2014-03-15 03:03:12 PM  

boinkingbill: Geez, just ask people who live in housing developments where the land's mineral rights are owned by someone else and improvements in technology have now allowed that oil deep in the ground under the development can now be drilled for, what it's like to get screwed.  Some developers fail to tell potential homeowners about the "mineral rights thing", so I guess it's kind of a shock when a company starts putting up pumps throughout the development.


Did you post in the wrong thread?  How is this even remotely related?
 
2014-03-15 03:12:22 PM  

GoldDude: Getting together with your neighbours and hiring an arsonist to take care of the crumbling churches would be a cheaper option.


I was thinking exactly this. I suspect the church would back down if every time they sent a notice someone put a rock through a $10000 stained-glass window.
 
2014-03-15 03:13:01 PM  
I think that's just how they do business in Stottesdon.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-15 03:27:34 PM  

Makh: Does nobody read the terms and conditions when they agree to these things?


When you have to scroll through 40 pages of text?
 
2014-03-15 03:28:20 PM  

OgreMagi: xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.

There is no Federal law regarding murder.  That's a state thing.


So you can't get a murder charge in D.C.?
 
2014-03-15 03:41:14 PM  

FrancoFile: Title insurance must be a real biatch in Ye Olde England.


Title insurance doesn't exist in the UK - doesn't need to, all title (well most of it) is now registered.
 
2014-03-15 03:43:33 PM  

shtychkn: Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

Was thinking that too.  I'm assuming that they are using surgery in a similar fashion to how surgery is used to refer to a doctors office, and not just the actual practice of surgery.


Advice surgery is usually a face to face with your MP, for the airing of grievances.
 
2014-03-15 03:45:12 PM  
FTA Under chancel repair liability, homeowners living within the parishes of churches built before 1536 can be held liable for costs. The law dates back to the time of Henry VIII and, although actual claims are rare, in 2009 Adrian and Gail Wallbank from Warwickshire sold their home after losing an 18-year legal case and being left with costs of £250,000.


They lost? I guess sanity in the face of the theocratic nonsense of a bygone era is too much to hope for. Next thing you know the Queen will start having heads removed from people she doesn't like because, hey, she's still the Queen.
 
2014-03-15 03:59:11 PM  
img1.imagesbn.com

Literally wrote the book on this subject
 
2014-03-15 04:06:58 PM  

generallyso: FTA Under chancel repair liability, homeowners living within the parishes of churches built before 1536 can be held liable for costs. The law dates back to the time of Henry VIII and, although actual claims are rare, in 2009 Adrian and Gail Wallbank from Warwickshire sold their home after losing an 18-year legal case and being left with costs of £250,000.


They lost? I guess sanity in the face of the theocratic nonsense of a bygone era is too much to hope for. Next thing you know the Queen will start having heads removed from people she doesn't like because, hey, she's still the Queen.


Guess, what? England has an established church. That's what establishment of religion means (the thing banned by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution). While they no longer enforce attendance or tithing, everyone living in the parish is a member of the parish whether they like it or not. It sounds like the only problem is uncertainty about the costs; this is really no different than being forced to pay for sidewalk improvements or other infrastructure. Churches built before 1536 are a tourist draw, so it's not like the locals get nothing from having it up and running, even if they're not Church of England.

Those costs of £250,000 were legal bills; they'd have been better off just paying for the church repairs.
 
2014-03-15 04:09:26 PM  

OgreMagi: xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.

There is no Federal law regarding murder.  That's a state thing.


Bzzzzt! Wrong. There are any number of federal murder statutes. It's a federal crime to murder a game warden, an FBI agent, etc., etc.
 
2014-03-15 04:15:55 PM  

OgreMagi: There is no Federal law regarding murder. That's a state thing


Tell that to Timothy McVeigh.
 
2014-03-15 05:03:47 PM  

Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.


Three factual errors in this first sentence, pretty impressive!
 
2014-03-15 05:27:03 PM  

mbillips: OgreMagi: xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.

There is no Federal law regarding murder.  That's a state thing.

Bzzzzt! Wrong. There are any number of federal murder statutes. It's a federal crime to murder a game warden, an FBI agent, etc., etc.


apiarist: OgreMagi: There is no Federal law regarding murder. That's a state thing

Tell that to Timothy McVeigh.


Yes, killing government agents is a Federal crime.  I meant civilian murders.  Those are state/local laws.  I should have been more specific in my original post.
 
2014-03-15 05:47:16 PM  

GilRuiz1: This does not help the accusations churches are only in it for the money.  Hold a bake sale or something; twisting people's arms with medieval laws does not help the gospel of Christ.


Gee that a nice church building you have there, be a shame if anything happened to it.
 
2014-03-15 05:49:34 PM  

xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.


Not murder. Slavery.
 
2014-03-15 05:52:05 PM  

OgreMagi: mbillips: OgreMagi: xria: indy_kid: This is why I'd like to see:  1) all laws expire after a specified time;

That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.

There is no Federal law regarding murder.  That's a state thing.

Bzzzzt! Wrong. There are any number of federal murder statutes. It's a federal crime to murder a game warden, an FBI agent, etc., etc.

apiarist: OgreMagi: There is no Federal law regarding murder. That's a state thing

Tell that to Timothy McVeigh.

Yes, killing government agents is a Federal crime.  I meant civilian murders.  Those are state/local laws.  I should have been more specific in my original post.


So the next time some kid bumps into me when visiting the Lincoln Memorial I can gun the little shiat down?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-03-15 06:22:42 PM  
The solution to automatically expiring laws would be a recodification process. Recodification is a big bill saying, "the contents of the 2013 statute book are now law." After recodification the law is a huge bill passed in 2014 that just happens to be very similar to the cumulative effect of all laws passed up to 2014. This practice is routine in some states. It shields old laws from challenges based on defects in their original passage. It would also work to avoid an expiration date on laws. A successful expiration amendment would have to anticipate that response.
 
2014-03-15 06:23:43 PM  
I recall reading related stories over the years concerning ancient 'Land Grants' in England and the periodic concern that the current heir to the original grants could 'activate' them and claim their ancient rights.

Apparently, huge chunks of land were granted to churches and the very wealthy centuries ago and somehow forgotten about until long after such land became heavily developed.

Now, we have a bunch of old laws that are technically still enforceable, but not worth the trouble. Such as the bird bath in a city park, off limits to all other birds but Robins. Then the still active law requiring a man to walk about 80 feet ahead of a motor car carrying a flag and a whistle, to warn horses of its approach so as not to scare the horses. At night, he needs to carry a lantern.

I would think the Parliament could pass a sweeping law voiding all inactive 'grants'.

When Henry Vlll sold the monasteries' land, the liability to pay for the repair of the chancel remained with the land sold.

That can be changed with the sweep of a pen. However, even here in the US, we have something a bit similar: mineral rights. A lot of states sell you your land, but retain the rights to mine it out from under you if something valuable is discovered. Kind of like Centralia, that abandoned coal town where the mines caught fire and couldn't be put out. The mines went under homes and through the city and as the fires raged, caused the land to collapse, basements to fill with poison gasses and great cracks to open up all over the place.

The government moved the residents out -- but there are still a couple of folks living there who refuse to move.

I do recall when the British wealthy, whose ancestors had been granted huge tracts of land by the crown, moved to register their claims. It caused the same type of panic.

I mean, here, we have big tracts of land placed on the endangered list, not to be developed for various ecological reasons, that, seemingly over night during the housing boom, turned into high end housing units. Seems that what went on the list decades ago, could be removed from it if the money was right.
 
2014-03-15 06:26:08 PM  

shtychkn: Jebdiahbob: It looks like a lot of the people are less concerned about the potential cost but are more concerned about the fact that 1) it isn't always disclosed that the property is liable and 2) it's affecting the property values once the churches exercise that right.

If this law is on the books I've got to imagine that there is some equally obscure law to get around it as well.  Something like donating a sheep to the local reverend or some farcical aquatic ceremony where a watery tart hands you a sword.

A waiver from the King.


Caution: May involve his penis and your peasanty forehead; moderate tapping.
 
2014-03-15 06:27:37 PM  

ukexpat: shtychkn: Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

Was thinking that too.  I'm assuming that they are using surgery in a similar fashion to how surgery is used to refer to a doctors office, and not just the actual practice of surgery.

Advice surgery is usually a face to face with your MP, for the airing of grievances.


So I gathered, but I find the usage irregular, and I've laughed at Ronnie Corbett.
 
2014-03-15 07:06:50 PM  
Religion: The embodiment of "F*ck you I'm more important."
 
2014-03-15 07:58:19 PM  

Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".


Being a British person myself and having no understanding if WTF you mean by "the church is the state", can you clarify what you think is going on? Do you think the Church of England runs the UK? What about Scotland, where the Church of Scotland is the main religion (amongst those who dabble in that sort of thing)? Seriously, I have NO idea what you mean by that. I'm atheist, does that mean I'm not allowed to vote?
 
2014-03-15 08:55:44 PM  

It is what it is: Just ask the government to refund all of the property tax you & your ancestors were paying on the churches land for the last 500 years. Donate what the church is asking for from that and write it off as a tax receipt.


And the great part is... when winter rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
 
2014-03-15 09:04:01 PM  
ts2.mm.bing.net
Its right there plane as day.
 
2014-03-16 02:57:03 AM  

Spiralmonkey: Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

Being a British person myself and having no understanding if WTF you mean by "the church is the state", can you clarify what you think is going on? Do you think the Church of England runs the UK? What about Scotland, where the Church of Scotland is the main religion (amongst those who dabble in that sort of thing)? Seriously, I have NO idea what you mean by that. I'm atheist, does that mean I'm not allowed to vote?


The Church of England is not separate from the government like religions are in the United States.

Yes, the UK has limited the influence of the church compared to the past. But there is still a connection between the government in England and the Church of England.

/my switching between UK and England was on purpose
 
2014-03-16 03:13:57 AM  
Knock the church to the ground and put in a dentist's shop, it'll do everyone involved more good.
 
2014-03-16 05:46:34 AM  

Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.


What does my passport say, I wonder? Oh look. "British citizen".
 
2014-03-16 05:47:18 AM  
www.city-data.com
 
2014-03-16 05:50:13 AM  

xria: That would great in the US with Republicans in Congress. The law for murder expires on such a such a date, and unless billionaires get a tax cut then murder will become legal.


Do you have a law forbidding murder in the US? We don't, in the UK, as it's a common law offence.
 
2014-03-16 08:10:15 AM  

shtychkn: Spiralmonkey: Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

Being a British person myself and having no understanding if WTF you mean by "the church is the state", can you clarify what you think is going on? Do you think the Church of England runs the UK? What about Scotland, where the Church of Scotland is the main religion (amongst those who dabble in that sort of thing)? Seriously, I have NO idea what you mean by that. I'm atheist, does that mean I'm not allowed to vote?

The Church of England is not separate from the government like religions are in the United States.

Yes, the UK has limited the influence of the church compared to the past. But there is still a connection between the government in England and the Church of England.

/my switching between UK and England was on purpose


There is no connection between the church and the government. Are you confused by the difference between state and government? The queen is head of state and nominal head of the Church of England. The government runs the country. No overlap. In the UK any politician professing a love of Jeebus or making any reference to faith would rightly be ridiculed as religion has no place in politics - good luck with getting elected to any office in the US without claiming to be a devout Christian.

Having an established religion doesn't make it a theocracy. The claim that the church is the state is wrong. Just wrong. As is the "subject" claim. You can apply for citizenship of the UK, not subjecthood. My passport says I'm a citizen, not a subject. So all in all, everything Valiente said is wrong.
 
2014-03-16 02:05:13 PM  
The answer is simple. Strike the law. I wonder how far up the church's arse lawmakers are over there are not to pursue this very simple remedy.
 
2014-03-16 06:48:38 PM  

No Such Agency: GoldDude: Getting together with your neighbours and hiring an arsonist to take care of the crumbling churches would be a cheaper option.

Too bad these guys are dead or in jail:

[www.anus.com image 300x208]

(bonus: hotlinked from "anus.com")


Damn, you beat me to it! Yeah, read 'Lords Of Chaos' last year, and they definitely would've burned the place down! Varg is actually out of jail, as is Faust (his new band, Tsunami Of Blood, is pretty kickass. Just like Varg, he's a POS but I love their music nonetheless).
 
2014-03-16 08:02:09 PM  

Spiralmonkey: shtychkn: Spiralmonkey: Valiente: In Britain, the church is the state, and the inhabitants are subjects, not citizens.

How do you like the old woman on the money now, my cousins?

Also, I speak Brit, but I have never heard the term "advice surgery", which I can only guess is some sort of public meeting, or as the Americans in the northeast call it, a "town hall".

Being a British person myself and having no understanding if WTF you mean by "the church is the state", can you clarify what you think is going on? Do you think the Church of England runs the UK? What about Scotland, where the Church of Scotland is the main religion (amongst those who dabble in that sort of thing)? Seriously, I have NO idea what you mean by that. I'm atheist, does that mean I'm not allowed to vote?

The Church of England is not separate from the government like religions are in the United States.

Yes, the UK has limited the influence of the church compared to the past. But there is still a connection between the government in England and the Church of England.

/my switching between UK and England was on purpose

There is no connection between the church and the government. Are you confused by the difference between state and government? The queen is head of state and nominal head of the Church of England. The government runs the country. No overlap. In the UK any politician professing a love of Jeebus or making any reference to faith would rightly be ridiculed as religion has no place in politics - good luck with getting elected to any office in the US without claiming to be a devout Christian.

Having an established religion doesn't make it a theocracy. The claim that the church is the state is wrong. Just wrong. As is the "subject" claim. You can apply for citizenship of the UK, not subjecthood. My passport says I'm a citizen, not a subject. So all in all, everything Valiente said is wrong.


The Church of England is a the state church.

Our might be a weak connection compared to the past.
 
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