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(The New York Times)   School districts now altering their high school schedules to let students sleep in longer, rather than use the first three periods of the day   (well.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 111
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2680 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Mar 2014 at 10:11 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-15 10:17:25 AM
Wrong.

Afternoon nap period is all you need.
 
2014-03-15 10:17:32 AM
Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.
 
2014-03-15 10:17:48 AM
Logic?  In MY schools?  I wont stand for this.
 
2014-03-15 10:20:06 AM
How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?
 
2014-03-15 10:21:07 AM
On one hand:  Just wait until you meet the real work world princess.
On the other:  7:50am start time?  Trying to change it to 7:20am?!  Who thinks this is a good idea?

/starts work at 7:30 and I like it, but its not for everyone
 
2014-03-15 10:21:30 AM
Seems like it would be a lot easier on everyone if schools more closely matched parents' work schedules. Make school roughly 8-4 and include the sports and other activities the parents in TFA were complaining about having enough time for.
 
2014-03-15 10:22:12 AM
As an employer do I hire the kid who's country made him go to school for 10 hours a day with homework 6 to 7 days a week all year long, or the kid who is going to tell me they are "used" to sleeping in late and working when they feel like it and the world revolves around them?  Not a tough choice.
 
2014-03-15 10:27:37 AM

Cymbal: Wrong.

Afternoon nap period is all you need.


High school students and a gym full of beds.  I see no possible repercussions to that plan.

Snark aside, I think an afternoon nap should be a basic human right.
 
2014-03-15 10:32:10 AM

August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.


You, of course, are an idiot, and don't care for research and science.

If research said that cows produced 1% more milk if they were milked an hour later, the milking schedule would change. Research that shows teenagers learn better when allowed to sleep later? fark THAT! fark THOSE KIDS! THEY SHOULDN'T LEARN BETTER!
 
2014-03-15 10:33:03 AM

August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.


Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?


That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.
 
2014-03-15 10:36:06 AM
Awwww the little snowflakes might melt if they get they get out of their cozy wittle blankets with the rising sun.


Ear ache my eye ya little bastard!
 
2014-03-15 10:37:06 AM

Omnis_evil_twin: Cymbal: Wrong.

Afternoon nap period is all you need.

High school students and a gym full of beds.  I see no possible repercussions to that plan.

Snark aside, I think an afternoon nap should be a basic human right.


Well I always just slept hunched over my desk. But yeah, agree with nap being a basic human right.
 
2014-03-15 10:38:17 AM
weknowmemes.com
 
2014-03-15 10:38:40 AM
People will not be happy until you change the orbit of the Sun around the Earth to make the daytime they think they want.


/sic, that's the joke, son
 
2014-03-15 10:40:27 AM

Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.


Nannys are incapable of seeing the "real" problem.
 
2014-03-15 10:40:36 AM
There's a school in Toronto that switched to 10am - 4pm maybe a decade ago, and they're getting great results. Lower absenteeism, fewer behavior problems, and better learning.  Schools should do what is best for students, and later start times is part of that.
 
2014-03-15 10:42:22 AM
Three perioda a day? Someone get that girl a tampon.
 
2014-03-15 10:42:29 AM

ghare: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

You, of course, are an idiot, and don't care for research and science.

If research said that cows produced 1% more milk if they were milked an hour later, the milking schedule would change. Research that shows teenagers learn better when allowed to sleep later? fark THAT! fark THOSE KIDS! THEY SHOULDN'T LEARN BETTER!


And you cannot help but believe your eyes.

/with age, you might get over that
 
2014-03-15 10:43:06 AM
Meanwhile, in Asia... Students study circles around our kids...
 
2014-03-15 10:45:01 AM
Probably allows teachers more flexibility to have sex with students.   Either at school or meet before.
 
2014-03-15 10:46:24 AM

Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.


No, I never had those problems. I went to bed, I fell asleep. When it was time to get up, I got up. I didn't stay up all night, either. Then again, I can't expect every teenager to have that kind of self discipline.
 
2014-03-15 10:48:47 AM

Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.


There's more to it than that.

I could go to bed at 4 AM and wake up at 10 AM and be the most productive person you have ever seen.

If I go to bed at midnight and get up at 6 AM I'm just a pile of shuffling flesh all day with minimal productivity.

I've had great bosses who recognize that 20 of my flex-time hours rack up to probably 30 or more hours of a typical employees.  Then they factor in working from home and being able to undertake projects and tasks that require more than eight hours.

I've also had terrible bosses for whom showing up on time was pretty much all that was required to pick up a paycheck.  If you could figure out how to do that and put together maybe 20 minutes worth of actual work a week then you could likely sail unnoticed for years.

But the fact is that I have always been a night person.  My loathing for getting up early never ended after high school or college...it's just how my own clock is set and how I function.  A mortgage is important, but being happy with your life and what you do is more important.  Houses come and houses go but you will never get back a day punching in to a job you hate for whatever reason.
 
2014-03-15 10:49:14 AM
Time is an artifice. The Sun "rises and sets".
Humans used to adjust their lives to that.
Now it is a committee thingie.

After all is said and done, it is humans that are adaptable and connable by very questionable "science".
 
2014-03-15 10:50:50 AM

svanmeter: Meanwhile, in Asia... Students study circles around our kids...


Maybe expending your energy succeeding instead of backbiting works ?
We need moar "science" study, send me MONEY.
 
2014-03-15 10:51:32 AM
As a former HS teacher I must object.

First period was always my best behaved class because most of the students were still half asleep.
 
2014-03-15 10:53:32 AM
Threads like these remind me of why high school English class was so hard for some of my fellow students.

Old man yelling at clouds:"I had to do it when I was a kid, as was the style of the time. Have an onion. And here is the Scarlet Letter."

If it works for the district, the parents and the students, why get all crotchety? If you didn't have something neat as a kid, they can't either? Besides, I am going to assume that the amount of teenagers having jobs will increase. I know I loved working until 10 to wake up at 5:30 and somehow cramming homework in there.
 
2014-03-15 10:54:46 AM

Wulfman: There's a school in Toronto that switched to 10am - 4pm maybe a decade ago, and they're getting great results. Lower absenteeism, fewer behavior problems, and better learning.  Schools should do what is best for students, and later start times is part of that.


I wonder how much of that can be attributed to the students coming from households that can afford to accommodate that late start with their higher paying and more flexible jobs, stay at home parents and/or rich enough for the help to deliver them.
 
2014-03-15 10:54:52 AM
If a kid has to be to school at, lets say 7:30am as an example, and he goes to bed at time X the night before.  If you delay the start of school by Y hours then the kid just goes to bed at X+Y. They'll get the same amount of sleep regardless of what time school starts.

And If the parent(s) work, who makes sure the kid got out the door for school? I know this is a stretch because why would anyone assume a kid would not get up and go to school if no one is there to wake them, tell them to eat and get dressed, and get to the bus stop on time.

I've seen too many kids get dropped off in front of my kids high school who, the minute mom or dad drove off, turned around and walked away from school with their friends. If mom or dad cant drop them off anymore then these kids would probably never leave the house.

My youngest son would come home from school about 2:30, and take a nap. This is even after 8 hours of sleep the night before. Then he'd get up and start on whatever homework he had to do before dinner. My oldest functioned very well on 7 hours of sleep. It was doing the homework that was his problem.
 
2014-03-15 10:57:16 AM
I have to wonder, how many of these other countries are only a certain minority getting an education. Are they only counting kids able to go to school or all the kids?
 
2014-03-15 11:00:10 AM
I remember reading the biographies Bill Clinton, Ronald Regan, JFK, Abraham Lincoln, Margaret Thatcher, Richard Feynman, Michael Jordan, Andre Agassi, Teddy Roosevelt, Henry Ford, Spinoza, Moore, and Johnson. Cicero, Seneca, and Martial. Leonides and his captains. Xenophon.

The one thing that they all shared was that they were allowed to sleep in.

You. Farking. Morans.
 
2014-03-15 11:02:00 AM

hoodiowithtudio: I have to wonder, how many of these other countries are only a certain minority getting an education. Are they only counting kids able to go to school or all the kids?


No rules. Count whoever you want to make the headline.
We are doing the work of the Nanny here.
 
2014-03-15 11:13:36 AM
Kids aren't getting enough sleep today compared to when we were their age back in the 70's because we didn't have: TVs, DVDs, Video Games, Cell Phones, Computers, iCrap, etc in our rooms. When bed time came around there wasn't much to do except go to sleep (like I was suppose to). Take all the electronic crap out of her room and then see how much trouble she has with going to sleep.

/she can get by with a clock-radio and phonograph cd player like I did
 
2014-03-15 11:15:34 AM

Kaymon: Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.

No, I never had those problems. I went to bed, I fell asleep. When it was time to get up, I got up. I didn't stay up all night, either. Then again, I can't expect every teenager to have that kind of self discipline.


Well bully for you, but like I said, it's not about self discipline. One can go to bed but not fall asleep. If you could then you're lucky, in my view. Falling asleep has always been tricky for me, and I know I'm not the only one. But this isn't about me or either of our anecdotal experience, it's about the science saying starting later is better for kids. So why bother arguing? If it's better for them then let's do it, yeah? Why wouldn't we?
 
2014-03-15 11:18:25 AM

madethistopost: As an employer do I hire the kid who's country made him go to school for 10 hours a day with homework 6 to 7 days a week all year long, or the kid who is going to tell me they are "used" to sleeping in late and working when they feel like it and the world revolves around them?  Not a tough choice.


Yeah I wouldn't hire the brainwashed drone either
 
2014-03-15 11:20:05 AM

Omnis_evil_twin: Cymbal: Wrong.

Afternoon nap period is all you need.

High school students and a gym full of beds.  I see no possible repercussions to that plan.

Snark aside, I think an afternoon nap should be a basic human right.


Sounds like a college prep school to me.  Now, if they could work keggers in, our kids would be good to go.
 
2014-03-15 11:21:23 AM
We should go back to having the two, four hour sleeping periods. The kind where at midnight you'd get up, have a smoke and a shag, and get back to bed.
 
2014-03-15 11:21:57 AM

AppleOptionEsc: Threads like these remind me of why high school English class was so hard for some of my fellow students.

Old man yelling at clouds:"I had to do it when I was a kid, as was the style of the time. Have an onion. And here is the Scarlet Letter."

If it works for the district, the parents and the students, why get all crotchety? If you didn't have something neat as a kid, they can't either? Besides, I am going to assume that the amount of teenagers having jobs will increase. I know I loved working until 10 to wake up at 5:30 and somehow cramming homework in there.


Because this is 'Merica! Dammit! If I had to suffer as a child then so should these kids! I did it why can't they! Who needs facts and shiat when I have opinions!

But seriously, studies show elementary school should start earlier and high school students should get to sleep in.

And you're spot on about working in high school. That shiat sucked!
 
2014-03-15 11:26:43 AM

Wulfman: There's a school in Toronto that switched to 10am - 4pm maybe a decade ago, and they're getting great results. Lower absenteeism, fewer behavior problems, and better learning.  Schools should do what is best for students, and later start times is part of that.


That applies across the board.

Most of society is held together by nothing at all.

The law doesn't stop bad people from raping and murdering you, not necessarily in that order, and then cracking open your skull feasting on your delicious brain meats in an orgy of blood and violence to the poignant sounds of the songs found on U2's Joshua Tree. People who will do that will do it if it's legal or not. The reason it doesn't really happen that often is because not that many people really want to do it. It's just not how people are wired.

By the same token, not everyone is a morning person. Not everyone wants to be a morning person. Time after time, history shows if you give these people the mornings off and ask them to start being productive at around 4pm instead, shiat gets done. And usually, they blow the lid off the jokers who know what sunrise looks like.
 
2014-03-15 11:29:42 AM

Slaxl: Kaymon: Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.

No, I never had those problems. I went to bed, I fell asleep. When it was time to get up, I got up. I didn't stay up all night, either. Then again, I can't expect every teenager to have that kind of self discipline.

Well bully for you, but like I said, it's not about self discipline. One can go to bed but not fall asleep. If you could then you're lucky, in my view. Falling asleep has always been tricky for me, and I know I'm not the only one. But this isn't about me or either of our anecdotal experience, it's about the science saying starting later is better for kids. So why bother arguing? If it's better for them then let's do it, yeah? Why wouldn't we?


I was going to ask you how many confounds you could find in the research paper, but I decided to read the research myself and point them out.

Instead I am directed to what looks like a one-day conference where presenters are providing handouts? This is "accumulating research"? Policy change once relied on systematic reviews of literature. Now we get ten people with handouts? And everyone cries, "science"!

I'm not buying it. This is an issue of convenience. We really don't care about learning; we care about the lifestyles of our children. Still, there will be parents out there who believe in commitment, sacrifice, and discipline. So there is hope.
 
2014-03-15 11:31:38 AM
Good.  School starts to damn early, anyway.

/we have to get our daughter to school by 7:30am everyday.  It's friggin' ridiculous.

August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.


Teenagers are biologically wired to stay up later than adults and little children.
 
2014-03-15 11:35:19 AM

August11: Slaxl: Kaymon: Slaxl: August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Kaymon: How about you kids go to bed at a reasonable hour instead?

That's the problem with being a teenager, you can go to bed but you can't sleep. Didn't you ever have those problems? I know I did. I still do to some extent, but at least I can manage it by being more skilled at getting out of bed at 7am regardless of how tired I am. Having a mortgage to pay is a great motivator.

No, I never had those problems. I went to bed, I fell asleep. When it was time to get up, I got up. I didn't stay up all night, either. Then again, I can't expect every teenager to have that kind of self discipline.

Well bully for you, but like I said, it's not about self discipline. One can go to bed but not fall asleep. If you could then you're lucky, in my view. Falling asleep has always been tricky for me, and I know I'm not the only one. But this isn't about me or either of our anecdotal experience, it's about the science saying starting later is better for kids. So why bother arguing? If it's better for them then let's do it, yeah? Why wouldn't we?

I was going to ask you how many confounds you could find in the research paper, but I decided to read the research myself and point them out.

Instead I am directed to what looks like a one-day conference where presenters are providing handouts? This is "accumulating research"? Policy change once relied on systematic reviews of literature. Now we get ten people with handouts? And everyone cries, "science"!

I'm not buying it. This is an issue of convenience. We really don't care about learning; we care about the lifestyles of our children. Still, there will be parents out there who believe in commitment, sacrifice, and discipline. So there is hope.


"Consensus", they have it.
"Hope" not so much.
 
2014-03-15 11:35:39 AM
Jilly Dos Santos really did try to get to school on time. She set three successive alarms on her phone. Skipped breakfast. Hastily applied makeup while her fuming father drove.

If you're constantly late to school, making sure you look pretty when you get there should be the last of your worries.
 
2014-03-15 11:35:43 AM

FizixJunkee: Good.  School starts to damn early, anyway.

/we have to get our daughter to school by 7:30am everyday.  It's friggin' ridiculous.

August11: Much easier than having parents get the kids to go to bed at a decent hour.

Teenagers are biologically wired to stay up later than adults and little children.


And all humans are biologically wired to take what they want.
 
2014-03-15 11:37:05 AM

Kaymon: Then again, I can't expect every teenager to have that kind of self discipline.


It has nothing to do with self discipline and everything to do with you being an ITG.
 
2014-03-15 11:37:16 AM

madethistopost: As an employer do I hire the kid who's country made him go to school for 10 hours a day with homework 6 to 7 days a week all year long, or the kid who is going to tell me they are "used" to sleeping in late and working when they feel like it and the world revolves around them?  Not a tough choice.



So you make your decisions based on how beaten-down and submissive the applicants are instead of on their qualifications?   Got it.
 
2014-03-15 11:40:47 AM
doglover:
By the same token, not everyone is a morning person. Not everyone wants to be a morning person. Time after time, history shows if you give these people the mornings off and ask them to start being productive at around 4pm instead, shiat gets done. And usually, they blow the lid off the jokers who know what sunrise looks like.

shiat starts to get done because the boss and the bureaucratic middle management have all gone home. Without the BS imaginary fires to put out, favors to be done, and useless meetings to be held, shiat can get done.
 
2014-03-15 11:46:12 AM

Skarekrough: I could go to bed at 4 AM and wake up at 10 AM and be the most productive person you have ever seen.

If I go to bed at midnight and get up at 6 AM I'm just a pile of shuffling flesh all day with minimal productivity.

I've had great bosses who recognize that 20 of my flex-time hours rack up to probably 30 or more hours of a typical employees.  Then they factor in working from home and being able to undertake projects and tasks that require more than eight hours.

I've also had terrible bosses for whom showing up on time was pretty much all that was required to pick up a paycheck.  If you could figure out how to do that and put together maybe 20 minutes worth of actual work a week then you could likely sail unnoticed for years.

But the fact is that I have always been a night person.  My loathing for getting up early never ended after high school or college...it's just how my own clock is set and how I function.  A mortgage is important, but being happy with your life and what you do is more important.  Houses come and houses go but you will never get back a day punching in to a job you hate for whatever reason.



I'm a night owl, too.  Before about 2pm, I am completely useless.  Sometime around sunset, my brain comes online and I'm at the top of my game.  Once the sun is down, I get practically euphoric and that euphoria provides lots of momentum to keep working through the night.  I have no problem staying up 'til 3-4 AM without need of any caffeine or stimulants.
 
2014-03-15 11:47:04 AM
I wonder how old the term "morning person" is. To what year does it date?

Did Rome pull out of Britain because they ran out of centurions who were "morning people"?
 
2014-03-15 11:53:01 AM
What happened to teaching children to be responsible for themselves? My parents didn't escort me through the morning ritual and yet I managed to get to and from school for 12 years. I missed the bus once.
 
2014-03-15 11:54:52 AM
How much would it cost to get them to convince my employer to adopt this principal?
 
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