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(BBC-US)   Russian foreign minister: Russia will respect the Russian vote in Crimea. I mean the Crimean vote. Yeah   (bbc.com) divider line 59
    More: Obvious, russian foreign minister, Crimean, Russia, Russians  
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1942 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 12:44 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-14 12:50:33 PM  
And oooooh there will be severe repercussions if Russian doesn't stop.  Like Obama is gonna de-friend Putin on Facebook or something.
 
2014-03-14 12:50:46 PM  
The Economist put it right when they said voting at the end if a Kalashnikov
 
2014-03-14 12:51:46 PM  
Look, the US and EU are just going to sit there and let Russia take it. Why we're pretending otherwise is beyond me.
 
2014-03-14 12:54:06 PM  
When will Putin send troops into Brooklyn to save the Nets?
 
2014-03-14 12:58:42 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Look, the US and EU are just going to sit there and let Russia take it. Why we're pretending otherwise is beyond me.


That, unfortunately, is what it's looking like.
 
2014-03-14 12:58:43 PM  

Bermuda59: When will Putin send troops into Brooklyn to save the Nets?


No one can save the Nets.
 
2014-03-14 01:00:00 PM  
Russia will "respect the will of the people of Crimea" when they voet on this referendum.

Yeah *rolls eyes* that's why they just happened to have rolled troops into the area beforehand.

We wish you the best, Ukranian people. Seems that's the most we are able to do. So sorry.

/from me- heartfelt
//from my government, idk
 
2014-03-14 01:00:28 PM  
The easiest thing to do would be Ukraine getting all Europeanized--including NATO military bases and making Odesa the Paris of the Black Sea--so Crimea wants to rejoin Ukraine.

It might take 10 years of insurgency funded and trained by the US, PRC and BP but eventually the Russians can be driven out, just like in Afghanistan. It's another colonial war and I hope we limit our involvement to supporting the insurgency.

One thing Ukraine doesn't want to do is fight the Russians conventionally. I don't think the Russians would have any problem with escalation.
 
2014-03-14 01:01:20 PM  

lindalouwho: Russia will "respect the will of the people of Crimea" when they voet on this referendum.

Yeah *rolls eyes* that's why they just happened to have rolled troops into the area beforehand.

We wish you the best, Ukranian people. Seems that's the most we are able to do. So sorry.

/from me- heartfelt
//from my government, idk


*vote

/sigh
 
2014-03-14 01:01:50 PM  
Arnold Schwarzenegger was a pretty crappy Governor, but I will give him this, he did know how to write a Strongly Worded Letter.

www.grapesofrad.com
 
2014-03-14 01:02:32 PM  
"The vote will be tomorrow, but, luckily we can provide you with the results today, so you meet your deadlines."
 
2014-03-14 01:03:00 PM  

danzak: To The Escape Zeppelin!: Look, the US and EU are just going to sit there and let Russia take it. Why we're pretending otherwise is beyond me.

That, unfortunately, is what it's looking like.


So what should they do instead?

Economic sanctions convinced Iran to sit down and bargain with The Great Satan.  Russia's already on the ropes economically, with a bit of a push they'll end up back in post-Soviet bankrupcy and won't be able to prop up dictators like Syrias' al-Assad any more.  Wouldn't it be a better idea to resolve this without getting in yet another war?
 
2014-03-14 01:04:42 PM  
Heads I win, tails you lose.
 
2014-03-14 01:06:17 PM  
Ukraine will go NATO now
Russia will have European forces on their boarder for the first time
They managed to cling to the Crimea
For now,,

And for those who say, "We should do something." We are doing something. We are flooding the Ukraine with UN observers (in Donetsk) and loan guarantees (in Kiev).

The next thing that happens, in the next 5-10 years, is people in Russia looking right over their boarded at all the happy people, and wondering why.

Good Luck Vlad, you're gonna need it.
 
2014-03-14 01:07:11 PM  
cdn2-b.examiner.com
The 80s are back!
 
2014-03-14 01:08:38 PM  
It's simple. If Russia tries to annex Crimea, Ukraine should shut off all water supplies to the peninsula. It is completely dependent on mainland Ukraine for fresh water.
 
2014-03-14 01:09:36 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: The easiest thing to do would be Ukraine getting all Europeanized--including NATO military bases and making Odesa the Paris of the Black Sea--so Crimea wants to rejoin Ukraine.

It might take 10 years of insurgency funded and trained by the US, PRC and BP but eventually the Russians can be driven out, just like in Afghanistan. It's another colonial war and I hope we limit our involvement to supporting the insurgency.

One thing Ukraine doesn't want to do is fight the Russians conventionally. I don't think the Russians would have any problem with escalation.



Not sure if serious?
Russia would never allow a NATO country on its border for the same reason US wouldn't let USSR have a base in Cuba.
This is what it's all about. Not about protecting anyone.
 
2014-03-14 01:11:53 PM  

tinyarena: Ukraine will go NATO now
Russia will have European forces on their boarder for the first time
They managed to cling to the Crimea
For now,,

And for those who say, "We should do something." We are doing something. We are flooding the Ukraine with UN observers (in Donetsk) and loan guarantees (in Kiev).

The next thing that happens, in the next 5-10 years, is people in Russia looking right over their boarded at all the happy people, and wondering why.


Exactly this. Ukraine gets Paris, Crimea gets Sochi. And they'll want Paris sooner or later.
 
2014-03-14 01:17:01 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: The easiest thing to do would be Ukraine getting all Europeanized--including NATO military bases and making Odesa the Paris of the Black Sea--so Crimea wants to rejoin Ukraine.

It might take 10 years of insurgency funded and trained by the US, PRC and BP but eventually the Russians can be driven out, just like in Afghanistan. It's another colonial war and I hope we limit our involvement to supporting the insurgency.

One thing Ukraine doesn't want to do is fight the Russians conventionally. I don't think the Russians would have any problem with escalation.


And back in the real world. Russians still wants to live in Russia.

Also, are you going to pay for the Paris of Ukraine? Because wtf. should the EU do that?
 
2014-03-14 01:19:42 PM  

moops: It's simple. If Russia tries to annex Crimea, Ukraine should shut off all water supplies to the peninsula. It is completely dependent on mainland Ukraine for fresh water.


Do you really believe the Ukrainians have control over whether the Crimea gets fresh water or not?  I think that the Russians, just might have thought of this possibility and done something about it..
 
2014-03-14 01:24:11 PM  
This election is such a futile effort to try to create a semblance of freewill. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that Ukraine's Constitution might have mechanisms that render this vote completely unconstitutional, but fark them and their sovereignty, right?
 
2014-03-14 01:26:14 PM  
I also love how the right-wingers are suggesting that Obama is being like Neville Chamberlain, which led to World War II. Instead, they want us to act with full force because of a skirmish in a distant ally... which is what led to World War I.
 
2014-03-14 01:32:31 PM  

spawn73: TheShavingofOccam123: The easiest thing to do would be Ukraine getting all Europeanized--including NATO military bases and making Odesa the Paris of the Black Sea--so Crimea wants to rejoin Ukraine.

It might take 10 years of insurgency funded and trained by the US, PRC and BP but eventually the Russians can be driven out, just like in Afghanistan. It's another colonial war and I hope we limit our involvement to supporting the insurgency.

One thing Ukraine doesn't want to do is fight the Russians conventionally. I don't think the Russians would have any problem with escalation.

And back in the real world. Russians still wants to live in Russia.

Also, are you going to pay for the Paris of Ukraine? Because wtf. should the EU do that?


The key to my post is "10 years of insurgency".

There's Islamic presence in Crimea and Ukraine. There's Ukrainian presence in Crimea. I'm sure there will a nationalist presence in Crimea. So there's 3 groups that can fight an insurgency against Russian "occupation" of Crimea. Ask all those Russians in Crimea what they think of their homeland after 10 years of insurgency and terrorism.

And NATO military bases can be large sources of income. Additionally, free trade agreements with Europe will help rebuild a Ukrainian economy that's been hurt by corruption tied to Russia.

I'd rather Crimea be reunited with Ukraine over time--if at all--than have nuclear combat toe to toe with the Russkies.
 
2014-03-14 01:35:00 PM  
toraque:
So what should they do instead?

Economic sanctions convinced Iran to sit down and bargain with The Great Satan.  Russia's already on the ropes economically, with a bit of a push they'll end up back in post-Soviet bankrupcy and won't be able to prop up dictators like Syrias' al-Assad any more.  Wouldn't it be a better idea to resolve this without getting in yet another war?


I'm not suggesting they need to militarily intervene.  To me, it looks like they will be backing off the toughest sanctions.  Today, Kerry said that the US and Russia discussed "legitimate" Russian interests in Ukraine.  What legitimate interests?  They have none.  To me, it looks like Putin has dug his heels in and the US is starting to waiver in it's stance, suggesting that there are valid reasons that Russia is in Ukraine (there aren't).  If the US goes, the EU will follow.
 
2014-03-14 01:36:30 PM  

zimbomba63: moops: It's simple. If Russia tries to annex Crimea, Ukraine should shut off all water supplies to the peninsula. It is completely dependent on mainland Ukraine for fresh water.

Do you really believe the Ukrainians have control over whether the Crimea gets fresh water or not?  I think that the Russians, just might have thought of this possibility and done something about it..


Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan.
 
2014-03-14 01:37:18 PM  
Actually, several EU observers were invited.
 
2014-03-14 01:43:26 PM  

mistrmind: And oooooh there will be severe repercussions if Russian doesn't stop.  Like Obama is gonna de-friend Putin on Facebook or something.


Obama has already used the most powerful tool he has. He has declared Putin on the wrong side of history.
 
2014-03-14 01:44:35 PM  

bv2112: This election is such a futile effort to try to create a semblance of freewill. I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that Ukraine's Constitution might have mechanisms that render this vote completely unconstitutional, but fark them and their sovereignty, right?


I'm pretty sure just about every State has decided they will not recognize the legitimacy of the vote.
 
2014-03-14 01:47:24 PM  

Bermuda59: When will Putin send troops into Brooklyn to save the Nets?


Brooklynghazi!

www.theblaze.com

"At this point, does it matter?"
 
2014-03-14 01:49:18 PM  
In Putin's Russia, votes rig you.
 
2014-03-14 01:49:34 PM  

zimbomba63: Do you really believe the Ukrainians have control over whether the Crimea gets fresh water or not? I think that the Russians, just might have thought of this possibility and done something about it..


All of Crimea's fresh water comes from a reservoir in the Ukranian mainland, via a canal that crosses the isthmus that connects Crimea to the mainland. Russia has no physical connection to Crimea.
 
2014-03-14 01:55:05 PM  
Not to pull a Godwin, but even the elections in Nazi Germany were more honest.

s3.amazonaws.com

/ Es keine Grübchen Tschad
 
2014-03-14 02:05:39 PM  

ontariolightning: Russia would never allow a NATO country on its border...


Um, Estonia and Latvia have been members of NATO for a decade, and NATO's been holding a seat for Ukraine since 2008; that was on hold during Yanukovich's presidency but is certainly on the agenda for when things calm down.

So, nice try, but no.
 
2014-03-14 02:06:43 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: spawn73: TheShavingofOccam123: The easiest thing to do would be Ukraine getting all Europeanized--including NATO military bases and making Odesa the Paris of the Black Sea--so Crimea wants to rejoin Ukraine.

It might take 10 years of insurgency funded and trained by the US, PRC and BP but eventually the Russians can be driven out, just like in Afghanistan. It's another colonial war and I hope we limit our involvement to supporting the insurgency.

One thing Ukraine doesn't want to do is fight the Russians conventionally. I don't think the Russians would have any problem with escalation.

And back in the real world. Russians still wants to live in Russia.

Also, are you going to pay for the Paris of Ukraine? Because wtf. should the EU do that?

The key to my post is "10 years of insurgency".

There's Islamic presence in Crimea and Ukraine. There's Ukrainian presence in Crimea. I'm sure there will a nationalist presence in Crimea. So there's 3 groups that can fight an insurgency against Russian "occupation" of Crimea. Ask all those Russians in Crimea what they think of their homeland after 10 years of insurgency and terrorism.

And NATO military bases can be large sources of income. Additionally, free trade agreements with Europe will help rebuild a Ukrainian economy that's been hurt by corruption tied to Russia.

I'd rather Crimea be reunited with Ukraine over time--if at all--than have nuclear combat toe to toe with the Russkies.


Your first point. I am sure after 10 years of such an insurgency, they'll hate Ukraine even more than they do now. Thats human nature, and I am surprised that anyone could think otherwise. What, do you think the Serbians in Kosovo now really hate Serbia? Do you? Try and ask them.

Your second point. Its called the EU. Free trade with the EU will at the start create chaos in Ukraine, because they are utterly and completely unable to compete with the EU. So is Russia, which is why Russia said they'd close the border with Ukraine if such a thing would happen, using that exact argument "We can not compete with the EU". Ukraine has natural resources that they can sell, and over time, investments from the EU can lead to prosperity. Not over 10 years though, and especially not in the current climate. The notion that the corruption is rooted in Russia is pulled out of your ass, its systemic to Ukraine.

Your final point. Why should Crimea be a part of Ukraine if they don't want to really? We can agree that the process is incorrect. The decision to split up the country is one for Ukraine to make, not Russia. But in the end, Crimea, by a large majority, doesn't want to be a part of Ukraine. Well of course, the premise for your argument is of couse that the Russians somehow wants to be a part of Ukraine, but they don't.


That war thing you keep mentioning. No, that wouldn't be nice. Also, I don't think Kiev should be kidnapped by Mars. But do you mind sticking with reality?
 
2014-03-14 02:09:59 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Actually, several EU observers were invited.


Of course. People fail to understand that Russia doesn't need to rig the elections.

Like OMG, Russians wants to be a part of Russia, rather than the economic ruin of Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule. What a surprise.
 
2014-03-14 02:12:08 PM  

ontariolightning: Russia would never allow a NATO country on its border for the same reason US wouldn't let USSR have a base in Cuba.


Russia would never allow a NATO country on its border? Somebody better alert Latvia and Estonia, plus Lithuania and Poland border if you include Kaliningrad in that statement.
 
2014-03-14 02:12:14 PM  

MyRandomName: mistrmind: And oooooh there will be severe repercussions if Russian doesn't stop.  Like Obama is gonna de-friend Putin on Facebook or something.

Obama has already used the most powerful tool he has. He has declared Putin on the wrong side of history.


Boy I bet Putin is quaking in his boots.
 
2014-03-14 02:13:13 PM  

Rapmaster2000: [cdn2-b.examiner.com image 400x250]
The 80s are back!


Do you remember living in a world when The Simpsons was satire and not prophecy? I'd really like to believe I did once.

/Dang, when was that episode broadcast even?
 
2014-03-14 02:19:54 PM  

moops: zimbomba63: Do you really believe the Ukrainians have control over whether the Crimea gets fresh water or not? I think that the Russians, just might have thought of this possibility and done something about it..

All of Crimea's fresh water comes from a reservoir in the Ukranian mainland, via a canal that crosses the isthmus that connects Crimea to the mainland. Russia has no physical connection to Crimea.


The government in Kiev really doesn't have control over Eastern Ukraine, with all the "volunteer" militia guys wandering around.  I bet the reservoir and canal have been secured by the said militias.  I sure the Black Sea fleet gets it's fuel through a pipeline, that crosses the isthmus, too.  This may have been a blunder by Putin, but, the military guys will make sure they have the necessities, one way or the other.
 
2014-03-14 02:32:02 PM  

spawn73: Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule


You made sense until right there!
 
2014-03-14 02:34:29 PM  

spawn73: Coming on a Bicycle: Actually, several EU observers were invited.

Of course. People fail to understand that Russia doesn't need to rig the elections.

Like OMG, Russians wants to be a part of Russia, rather than the economic ruin of Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule. What a surprise.


Considering how the Russian rubble is tanking, it would not surprise me if they take their chances remaining as part of Ukraine.
 
2014-03-14 02:45:56 PM  

spawn73: Coming on a Bicycle: Actually, several EU observers were invited.

Of course. People fail to understand that Russia doesn't need to rig the elections.

Like OMG, Russians wants to be a part of Russia, rather than the economic ruin of Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule. What a surprise.


You should stop watching RT.
 
2014-03-14 02:46:17 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Not to pull a Godwin, but even the elections in Nazi Germany were more honest.

[s3.amazonaws.com image 620x448]

/ Es keine Grübchen Tschad


I saw there were some pro-Russian demonstrations in Crimea. There was someone holding a banner with Stalin on it. I think I would respect a person carrying a banner with Hitler on it more than a person with a Stalin banner. Hitler was capable of doing things properly. Stalin couldn't build a bridge without 30,000 people dying.
 
2014-03-14 02:53:17 PM  

danzak: spawn73: Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule

You made sense until right there!


I was refering to the protesters, Svoboda and Right Sector.

So, you don't like me refering to the protestors as a mob. I concur that is a laden word, but probably a very precise way of describing how the Russians in Ukraine see them.

Consider that a bit, and you'll come to agree that I am making perfect sense.

Though, obviously Svoboda and Right Sector weren't the only protestors. I won't make that claim. They were damn visible though.
 
2014-03-14 02:54:24 PM  

The Bestest: spawn73: Coming on a Bicycle: Actually, several EU observers were invited.

Of course. People fail to understand that Russia doesn't need to rig the elections.

Like OMG, Russians wants to be a part of Russia, rather than the economic ruin of Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule. What a surprise.

You should stop watching RT.


You're a retard.
 
2014-03-14 02:55:46 PM  

CygnusDarius: spawn73: Coming on a Bicycle: Actually, several EU observers were invited.

Of course. People fail to understand that Russia doesn't need to rig the elections.

Like OMG, Russians wants to be a part of Russia, rather than the economic ruin of Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule. What a surprise.

Considering how the Russian rubble is tanking, it would not surprise me if they take their chances remaining as part of Ukraine.


Ukraine is effectively bankrupt.

Do you see any Ukrainians wanting to be a part of Russia? No? That's because its not about the economy.
 
2014-03-14 02:57:23 PM  

Foxxinnia: TV's Vinnie: Not to pull a Godwin, but even the elections in Nazi Germany were more honest.

[s3.amazonaws.com image 620x448]

/ Es keine Grübchen Tschad

I saw there were some pro-Russian demonstrations in Crimea. There was someone holding a banner with Stalin on it. I think I would respect a person carrying a banner with Hitler on it more than a person with a Stalin banner. Hitler was capable of doing things properly. Stalin couldn't build a bridge without 30,000 people dying.


And the bridge would be built using those corpses as mortar.
 
2014-03-14 03:00:22 PM  

tinyarena: Russia will have European forces on their boarder for the first time


upload.wikimedia.org

?
 
2014-03-14 03:06:53 PM  

spawn73: danzak: spawn73: Ukriane half ruled by nazi mob rule

You made sense until right there!

I was refering to the protesters, Svoboda and Right Sector.

So, you don't like me refering to the protestors as a mob. I concur that is a laden word, but probably a very precise way of describing how the Russians in Ukraine see them.

Consider that a bit, and you'll come to agree that I am making perfect sense.

Though, obviously Svoboda and Right Sector weren't the only protestors. I won't make that claim. They were damn visible though.


How exactly does that equate to "nazi mob rule"? Do you have a citation that the Nazis are a majority or even -significant- influence at these protests, let alone exercise any sort of control?
I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that their presence at events has been way overblown to use as separatist propaganda. It would be like, say, one of those large Tea Party rallies and some Westboro Baptist Church members showed up and the media focused only on them.

spawn73: You're a retard.


Charming.

Russia may not -need- to rig the election, but there is certain undue influence there in terms of propaganda and intimidation, particularly the latter. I imagien the Tartars would vote "no" as hard as they can, but how many of them will be coerced into not voting? Then you have THIS

media3.s-nbcnews.com
i2.cdn.turner.com

..everywhere..

Seems legit.
 
2014-03-14 03:18:42 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: Look, the US and EU are just going to sit there and let Russia take it. Why we're pretending otherwise is beyond me.


Pretty much this. Does anyone REALLY want to start WWIII and nuclear armageddon over crimea?

Global Thermonuclear war: The only winning move is not to play.
 
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