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(Malaysia New Straits Times)   New new evidence from MIL radar tracking data suggests that flight MH370 was deliberately diverted onto airway N571 heading towards Andaman Islands. SAR efforts turning the focus on Indian Ocean   (nst.com.my) divider line 191
    More: Followup, Andaman Islands, Indian Ocean, Flight MH370, Malaysia Airlines, radar tracking, Bay of Bengal, Southeast Asia, Gulf of Thailand  
•       •       •

5003 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 8:01 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-14 10:22:13 AM  
most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines
 
2014-03-14 10:22:56 AM  

Shepherd: [i.imgur.com image 500x300]

From that flight path, I assume the hijackers were drunk.  Any of you Farkers want to confess?


Welcome aboird Curtis Airlines. I'm Drew I'll be your....captain, yea captian  and today we'll be trying to fly over...there,  in that... direction, probably in the air...at some point. Is this thing on? Waitress can you secure the cabin?....Did anyone see my keys... (groping sounds...female giggling....mic goes dead)
 
2014-03-14 10:26:40 AM  
zimbomba63:

Excuse me!  I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.  The helicopter thing.  Simply, the pastoral people misunderstanding the intentions of the aggressive helicopter, which was attempting to aggressively retrieve the bodies of the fishermen.  The islanders might have thought it was there to aggressively take their sacred mojo away or something, so their violence was perfectly acceptable. Where there any white guys involved?  Ah, then you can sit back and with a satisfied look, because it's RACISM.  And if there weren't any white guys involved, well maybe, they built the helicopter, so naturally, RACISM.
Anthrax!  I thought the myth said it was smallpox?  American settlers!  I thought the myth said it was a British officer?  How am I to feel chastised, when you can even get your accusatory myths correct?  You need to up your game.


img.fark.net
 
2014-03-14 10:26:56 AM  

Tennessee Slim: zimbomba63: Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun. That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century. Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

That doesn't always work out so well.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 320x200]


I thought you would use the one where the guy uses a spear to destroy the Panther tank.
 
2014-03-14 10:27:39 AM  
Rip Riley is on the job.

img3.wikia.nocookie.net

This had better not be a ruse.
 
2014-03-14 10:29:09 AM  

Snort: I'm telling ya, its in North Korea.


And you really think they could keep quiet about it, if they pulled this off?
 
2014-03-14 10:30:10 AM  

zimbomba63: parasol: zimbomba63: schief2: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands.  I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

That Pandit guy mentioned in the article wrote a book ('The Sentinelese'), short but fascinating. Unfortunately also a biatch to find.

<i>Other unintentional encounters include on August 2, 1981,a Hong Kong freighter navigating the choppy waters of the Bay of Bengal ran aground on a submerged coral reef. The ship, called the Primrose, was hopelessly stuck. The crew stayed on their boat for a few days, when the saw native people advancing towards their ship, armed with spears, bows and arrows .The captain made a distress call via radio and the crew were airlifted to safety by helicopter.

The last recorded contact with the Sentinelese was in 2006, when the Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island. The archers later drove off, with a hail of arrows, the helicopter that was sent to retrieve the bodies.</i>

Hard. Core.

Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun.  That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century.  Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species.  Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

Excuse me!  I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.  The helicopter thing.  Simply, th ...


Oh - I misunderstood - someone DID pee in your cornflakes.....
 
2014-03-14 10:33:46 AM  

Snort: I'm telling ya, its in North Korea.


well if someone did steal the plane and its passengers I'd certainly say that a weird thing to do...and NK is about as weird as it gets.

I still don't see what their angle could be though.

why would they do that?
 
2014-03-14 10:36:05 AM  

ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines


Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

Indian Navy may deploy state-of-the art surveillance plane to assist in search.
 
2014-03-14 10:36:15 AM  

unexplained bacon: Snort: I'm telling ya, its in North Korea.

well if someone did steal the plane and its passengers I'd certainly say that a weird thing to do...and NK is about as weird as it gets.

I still don't see what their angle could be though.

why would they do that?


to feed Kim Jong Un, he needs to eat the people and the plane.
 
2014-03-14 10:38:52 AM  

freetomato: parasol: I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species. Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

I was tempted to post a Red Forman "dumbass" .jpg but decided that much like a petulant child trying to get attention, he deserved to be ignored.  I'm glad someone called him on it, though.


TA-DA, third known "Ignore".  I'm completely dismissed and loving it.
 
2014-03-14 10:43:54 AM  

parasol: zimbomba63: parasol: zimbomba63: schief2: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands.  I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

That Pandit guy mentioned in the article wrote a book ('The Sentinelese'), short but fascinating. Unfortunately also a biatch to find.

<i>Other unintentional encounters include on August 2, 1981,a Hong Kong freighter navigating the choppy waters of the Bay of Bengal ran aground on a submerged coral reef. The ship, called the Primrose, was hopelessly stuck. The crew stayed on their boat for a few days, when the saw native people advancing towards their ship, armed with spears, bows and arrows .The captain made a distress call via radio and the crew were airlifted to safety by helicopter.

The last recorded contact with the Sentinelese was in 2006, when the Sentinelese archers killed two fishermen who were fishing illegally within range of the island. The archers later drove off, with a hail of arrows, the helicopter that was sent to retrieve the bodies.</i>

Hard. Core.

Well, the next helicopter they send, should be a military one, with a 20mm Vulcan gun.  That would be perfect to give the old Sentinelese archers a taste of the 21st century.  Then, we'll see how "hard core" the survivors are.

I sometimes have encounters with people whose simple acts of human kindness restore my faith in the human species.  Woven into the multiple "missing jet" FARK threads is a recurring concern for the fate of the passengers/crew and their families.

Here is hoping this post is the most ugly thing I read, and that you proffer, today.

I'd ask "who peed in your cornflakes" but "you were reincarnated from the anthrax-laden blanket-giving American settlers, weren't you?" seems more fitting.

Excuse me!  I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.  The helicopter thing. ...


OK, that was a witty retort.  Anything else to add?  Some more mythology, maybe?
 
2014-03-14 10:44:25 AM  

ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines


last I heard the hospital ship was stood down before it finished preparing to deploy, and still wouldn't have gotten there for about 2 weeks after the disaster...   We are 1 week into this one with much fewer people potentially needing help.  do the math.
 
2014-03-14 10:45:48 AM  

Headso: unexplained bacon: Snort: I'm telling ya, its in North Korea.

well if someone did steal the plane and its passengers I'd certainly say that a weird thing to do...and NK is about as weird as it gets.

I still don't see what their angle could be though.

why would they do that?

to feed Kim Jong Un, he needs to eat the people and the plane.


Most of the people on the plane are Chinese.  He'd be hungry again an hour later.
 
2014-03-14 10:48:53 AM  
I'm glad it's missing.  One less plane polluting the skies means Al Gore is Preznit.
 
2014-03-14 10:51:11 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: I'm glad it's missing.  One less plane polluting the skies means Al Gore is Preznit.


That would have been a nice variation on the "This means X is president and Obama has to X" meme.
 
2014-03-14 10:52:14 AM  

James Rieper: If it was for pilot suicide, why bother turning off the transponders?


I'll bite.  Maybe it was for insurance reasons.  But I will hypothesize that if one was an aviation junkie, one would have followed stories that have all been reported here (Payne Stewart, AirFrance, etc).  And perhaps with a big enough ego, they would want to be like Amelia Earhart in that they wanted their disappearance to be shrouded in mystery, go down in history, etc.  So one might turn off the transponders and fly out to the vastness of the sea- knowing full well that it would take forever to find them.  I posit that perhaps the 5+ hours of additional flying time could be cold feet, or to throw people off even more.  They could have been flying in circles for all we know.
 
2014-03-14 10:52:51 AM  

zimbomba63: Excuse me!  I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope


I find it distressing that people who don't get what you're saying are trying to invalidate it through the sheer power of willful ignorance.
 
2014-03-14 10:53:02 AM  

HenryFnord: This is all just a big conspiracy by MSM to increase page views!


That's all any website is -- including Fark.  ...but you can show them!  Just burn your computer & unsubscribe from your service provider.  No more page views.
 
2014-03-14 10:53:58 AM  
Shepard:

Headso:
 unexplained bacon: Snort: I'm telling ya, its in North Korea.

well if someone did steal the plane and its passengers I'd certainly say that a weird thing to do...and NK is about as weird as it gets.

I still don't see what their angle could be though.

why would they do that?

to feed Kim Jong Un, he needs to eat the people and the plane.

Most of the people on the plane are Chinese.  He'd be hungry again an hour later.

S
o, North Koreans are actually the East Asian version of Reavers.
 
2014-03-14 10:58:01 AM  

ummhima2:


now the malay government and airline have opened themselves up to massive lawsuits for the delay that if they had asked for help sooner they might find survivors

i can hear the ambulance chasers already......a chance to sue a foreign government for wrongful death and what about the company that lost 20 employees


img.fark.net

Come on now.  Even a few days ago, I doubt there was a possibility of survivors. There's no way hijackers would keep that many hostages and if it crashed, I'm sure they were gone on impact.

 
2014-03-14 11:01:44 AM  

mbillips: ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines

Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

Indian Navy may deploy state-of-the art surveillance plane to assist in search.


us navy had one in phillipines idiot that is flat out closer to the old search area

dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities

it all goes to who is closer when it is found if it is found

there might be enough room for the families to travel back with their loved ones
 
2014-03-14 11:05:06 AM  

zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting. The helicopter thing. Simply, the pastoral people misunderstanding the intentions of the aggressive helicopter, which was attempting to aggressively retrieve the bodies of the fishermen.


There was no misunderstanding. Their lawn...you should get off it.

Alternatively, you could go in there and nuke the place from orbit if you wanted to be a total dick about it.

Or you could gas them and put them all to sleep and abduct a few for experiments before returning them. I'll bet they'd have some wild stories to tell the folks when they get back home!
 
2014-03-14 11:06:09 AM  

ummhima2: mbillips: ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines

Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

Indian Navy may deploy state-of-the art surveillance plane to assist in search.

us navy had one in phillipines idiot that is flat out closer to the old search area

dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities

it all goes to who is closer when it is found if it is found

there might be enough room for the families to travel back with their loved ones


If the plane crashed, there will not be bodies but pieces of bodies. Tiny pieces like skin and teeth. Its pretty gnarly. Probably won't need that much space to store the parts found.
 
2014-03-14 11:07:14 AM  
The idea of that plane flying on for four hours with everyone on board dead is both horrific and beautiful.  Just sailing away as part of a play unfolding in this stratospheric mausoleum.  Destined for the next few hours to wait for the inevitable and poetic plunge, ironically back through a height that would not have taken their lives.  But being not interested in this part of the sky either, continues on to embrace the salty sea and start the slow descent, finally to Earth.
 
2014-03-14 11:08:02 AM  

teenytinycornteeth: ummhima2:


now the malay government and airline have opened themselves up to massive lawsuits for the delay that if they had asked for help sooner they might find survivors

i can hear the ambulance chasers already......a chance to sue a foreign government for wrongful death and what about the company that lost 20 employees

[img.fark.net image 200x200]Come on now.  Even a few days ago, I doubt there was a possibility of survivors. There's no way hijackers would keep that many hostages and if it crashed, I'm sure they were gone on impact.


the joke of it is some lawyer out there is going to come along and say the passenger died because they werent found fast enough so lets sue everyone we can think of

there was little to no hope for survivors in this case at all falling from even a low altitude under radar tends to be fatal
 
2014-03-14 11:09:29 AM  

ummhima2: dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities


Did you just have a stroke?
 
2014-03-14 11:13:59 AM  

teenytinycornteeth: ]Come on now.  Even a few days ago, I doubt there was a possibility of survivors. There's no way hijackers would keep that many hostages and if it crashed, I'm sure they were gone on impact.


There's exactly as much evidence that it landed safely as there is that it crashed.  That is, absolutely none.  It's got to be especially hellish on the families having to go through that roller coaster ride.  It's really hard to rule anything out at this point, but I now STRONGLY suspect foul play of some sort.  Who knows what some nefarious individual, who apparently knows enough about aviation to follow VORs and NDBs, might want to do with an airliner.
 
2014-03-14 11:14:31 AM  

trappedspirit: The idea of that plane flying on for four hours with everyone on board dead is both horrific and beautiful.  Just sailing away as part of a play unfolding in this stratospheric mausoleum.  Destined for the next few hours to wait for the inevitable and poetic plunge, ironically back through a height that would not have taken their lives.  But being not interested in this part of the sky either, continues on to embrace the salty sea and start the slow descent, finally to Earth.


www.troll.me
 
2014-03-14 11:17:35 AM  
24 hr news cycle BS.  Every new data point has a half life of 24hrs unless reaffirmed.  Been this way for years.
 
2014-03-14 11:20:18 AM  
zimbomba63:  OK, that was a witty retort.  Anything else to add?  Some more mythology, maybe?

Thank you.
It'd be a toss-up between Narcissus and Icarus.
 
2014-03-14 11:21:29 AM  

zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.


No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.
 
2014-03-14 11:25:59 AM  

SpaceButler: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.


The anthropologist in me would love to observe them but it sounds like it would have to be from afar, and that defeats the whole purpose.
 
2014-03-14 11:27:19 AM  

MechaPyx: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting. The helicopter thing. Simply, the pastoral people misunderstanding the intentions of the aggressive helicopter, which was attempting to aggressively retrieve the bodies of the fishermen.

There was no misunderstanding. Their lawn...you should get off it.

Alternatively, you could go in there and nuke the place from orbit if you wanted to be a total dick about it.

Or you could gas them and put them all to sleep and abduct a few for experiments before returning them. I'll bet they'd have some wild stories to tell the folks when they get back home!


That's sort of a UFO, anal probey thing.  They won't be believed, "Why would they come all this distance to shove something up your butt!  Does that make any sense?"
 
2014-03-14 11:38:28 AM  
MechaPyx:

"...Or you could gas them and put them all to sleep and abduct a few for experiments before returning them. I'll bet they'd have some wild stories to tell the folks when they get back home!"


 A groggy native wakes up....."Hey Jumaji, does your butt hurt??!?!? Yea, mine too..."
 
2014-03-14 11:44:27 AM  

zimbomba63: MechaPyx: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting. The helicopter thing. Simply, the pastoral people misunderstanding the intentions of the aggressive helicopter, which was attempting to aggressively retrieve the bodies of the fishermen.

There was no misunderstanding. Their lawn...you should get off it.

Alternatively, you could go in there and nuke the place from orbit if you wanted to be a total dick about it.

Or you could gas them and put them all to sleep and abduct a few for experiments before returning them. I'll bet they'd have some wild stories to tell the folks when they get back home!

That's sort of a UFO, anal probey thing.  They won't be believed, "Why would they come all this distance to shove something up your butt!  Does that make any sense?"


www.hotflick.net

'But they'd all be ready for some payback, when we need them.
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-14 11:47:16 AM  

raerae1980: SpaceButler: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.

The anthropologist in me would love to observe them but it sounds like it would have to be from afar, and that defeats the whole purpose.


I agree, it'd be fascinating to learn how they live, why they're so hostile and so on.  I'd especially like to know how they 'explain' helicopters and motorized boats and such.  But we've got no right to invade them, and right now it seems like that'd be the only way to get in there without being killed.

The pure scientist in me would love to try experiments, though -- like have an armored helicopter fly in, drop a small package containing some items they can't make themselves but might be able to use (say, a mirror, a folding knife, and some fresh beef) and leave, and then we watch from afar to see what they do with it.  Probably just destroy it, but maybe not; maybe they'd do something that would give us some insight into how they think or how they organize their society.  Maybe it'd even convince them to be less hostile.  Or, make a cargo cult out of them, as they try to make the great noisy metal god with pale people in its transparent belly come back and give them more stuff.

Then, of course, the rest of me points out the massive ethical concerns with making unwitting experimental subjects out of an uncontacted tribe which just seems to want us to stay the hell away from them.  And that they're no doubt already used to the detritus of our civilization washing up on their shores in trash form anyway.
 
2014-03-14 11:48:56 AM  
My cousin keeps telling me it was stolen and hidden in the jungle or a hanger somewhere.
 
2014-03-14 11:51:10 AM  

James Rieper: Even then though, why would no one from the plane make a cell phone call?


Cell phones are magic and work anywhere in the world, always.
 
2014-03-14 11:53:13 AM  
What - no one notices the 'font color red' part of the URL?
 
2014-03-14 11:58:29 AM  

ummhima2: us navy had one in phillipines idiot that is flat out closer to the old search area


Ouch!  Not a good time to be a pinoy idiot.
 
2014-03-14 11:58:48 AM  

zimbomba63: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands.  I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

It's the first time China's ever heard of the Andaman Islands, too.  Plus, they just claimed that the islands have always been Chinese territory.


dude! this is getting really old. Don't you have some chinamen to hang in your backyard?
 
2014-03-14 12:07:40 PM  

zimbomba63: That's sort of a UFO, anal probey thing.  They won't be believed, "Why would they come all this distance to shove something up your butt!  Does that make any sense?"


A complete and thorough analysis and categorization of your gut flora says more than you know.
 
2014-03-14 12:08:56 PM  

freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands.  I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.


An Andaman islander (from the island with the penal colony) is a character in The Sign of the Four, the second Sherlock Holmes novel.  Also, Holmes shoots up on the first page.

http://www.sandroid.org/GutenMark/wasftp.GutenMark/MarkedTexts/sign4 10 .pdf
 
2014-03-14 12:13:43 PM  

SpaceButler: raerae1980: SpaceButler: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.

The anthropologist in me would love to observe them but it sounds like it would have to be from afar, and that defeats the whole purpose.

I agree, it'd be fascinating to learn how they live, why they're so hostile and so on.  I'd especially like to know how they 'explain' helicopters and motorized boats and such.  But we've got no right to invade them, and right now it seems like that'd be the only way to get in there without being killed.

The pure scientist in me would love to try experiments, though -- like have an armored helicopter fly in, drop a small package containing some items they can't make themselves but might be able to use (say, a mirror, a folding knife, and some fresh beef) and leave, and then we watch from afar to see what they do with it.  Probably just destroy it, but maybe not; maybe they'd do something that would give us some insight into how they think or how they organize their society.  Maybe it'd even convince them to be less hostile.  Or, make a cargo cult out of them, as they try to make the great noisy metal god with pale people in its transparent belly come back and give them more stuff.

Then, of course, the rest of me points out the massive ethical concerns with making unwitting experim ...


Yeah, but what about the Prime Directive?
 
2014-03-14 12:24:31 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: zimbomba63: freetomato: Until a couple of weeks ago, I'd never heard of the Andaman Islands.  I saw this recently, and am now pretty fascinated.

It's the first time China's ever heard of the Andaman Islands, too.  Plus, they just claimed that the islands have always been Chinese territory.

dude! this is getting really old. Don't you have some chinamen to hang in your backyard?


The deep end, you're going off it. I've got nothing against the Chinese, if fact, I took several semesters of Chinese history in school, because there was a hole in my understand of world history, in that area.  This was back in the mid-70's when China was still closed.  I don't want to sound as if I was prescient, but, looking around I thought China was going to be a big thing in the future (I never realized that it was going to be a "big thing", so damn quickly).  In fact, during my "Ancient Chinese History" class, China open its borders to limited foreign visitation, around the Spring of 1976 IIRC.  My professor, a dedicated Moaist, walked into class one morning and said he was leaving for China that week and we should do our readings and work on our papers, and he would be back in about 4 weeks.  He came back with a glowing description of the workers paradise, that China was at the time.  I wonder what his feelings are concerning modern China.

As far as things getting old, the Chinese government has laid claim to just about everything in the Pacific. I thought they may be branching out into the Indian Ocean.
 
2014-03-14 12:25:19 PM  

SpaceButler: raerae1980: SpaceButler: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.

The anthropologist in me would love to observe them but it sounds like it would have to be from afar, and that defeats the whole purpose.

I agree, it'd be fascinating to learn how they live, why they're so hostile and so on.  I'd especially like to know how they 'explain' helicopters and motorized boats and such.  But we've got no right to invade them, and right now it seems like that'd be the only way to get in there without being killed.

The pure scientist in me would love to try experiments, though -- like have an armored helicopter fly in, drop a small package containing some items they can't make themselves but might be able to use (say, a mirror, a folding knife, and some fresh beef) and leave, and then we watch from afar to see what they do with it.  Probably just destroy it, but maybe not; maybe they'd do something that would give us some insight into how they think or how they organize their society.  Maybe it'd even convince them to be less hostile.  Or, make a cargo cult out of them, as they try to make the great noisy metal god with pale people in its transparent belly come back and give them more stuff.

Then, of course, the rest of me points out the massive ethical concerns with making unwitting experimental subjects out of an uncontacted tribe which just seems to want us to stay the hell away from them.  And that they're no doubt already used to the detritus of our civilization washing up on their shores in trash form anyway.


they're most likely not that much disimular from other tribal groups out there historicly. but, like how I pointed out earlier, the last time that contact with outsiders, two elders were taken along with two childern, the elders died of western desease. the childern were returned, but, they were most likely carrying the new desease with them, then they spread it to the other islanders resulting in a plague that wiped out a good deal of the population..

after that incident, they went from hiding in the jungle from strangers to activly driving them off.
 
2014-03-14 12:30:58 PM  

SpaceButler: zimbomba63: Excuse me! I forgot we were dealing with a simple, peaceful people, you know the old "noble savage" trope, who were forced to kill the fishermen, because of their aggressive net casting.

No one brought up that trope but you.  The reason no one else wants to send a military helicopter to teach that tribe a lesson for killing two outsiders (who weren't, by our laws, allowed to fish in that area anyway) is that it won't help anything.  It would cause a lot more death, and make them even more violently xenophobic.  As things stand, they're only a danger to people who actually go into their territory, and there's no point to forcing our way in -- who would benefit from killing a bunch of them?  It wouldn't be justice.


From what I reading here, sounds like they're all "eleventy" on that scale all ready.
 
2014-03-14 12:37:59 PM  

ummhima2: mbillips: ummhima2: most naval vessels are not equipped to forensically process 239 deceased people at the same time or to handle that many survivors at once with the traumatic injuries you would expect from a crash then you would have to deal with the death and burial rituals associated with the range of religious beliefs of the families on board

hospital ships can in most cases provide critical and surgical care to hundreds at once plus they can be used as a base for humanitarian needs during a major search

the point is to take the hospital to the survivors wherever they are so that they can get care as quickly as possible like we did in the Philippines

Hospital ships don't do autopsies, and right now there aren't any survivors. The only reason to bring a hospital ship somewhere is a natural disaster that knocks out the shore-based facilities. And the Indian Navy is more than capable of handling something like this; the U.S. Navy isn't the only one in the world.

Indian Navy may deploy state-of-the art surveillance plane to assist in search.

us navy had one in phillipines idiot that is flat out closer to the old search area

dumbass hospital ships provide critical and surgical care do you want to wait longer for the ship to get there just because you think india can do a better job would you voluntarily choose to wait ANY hospital ship would be valuable yes there is an indian naval base in the andaman islands but i doubt they have the LAND BASED INFRASTRUCTURE to provide the care needed or do you think all the little islands out there have the infrastructure needed hospital ships from any country are going to be better equipped to store a large number of bodies than a regular ship they also have laboratory facilities

it all goes to who is closer when it is found if it is found

there might be enough room for the families to travel back with their loved ones


If the plane crashed in the ocean, there are no "large number of bodies" there's "a very large number of tiny body parts".  Read up on the Swissair 111 tragedy, fishermen were not recovering bodies, they were scooping up bits of flesh with nets.

Also, there are things like international rules that have to be followed.  The US Navy hospital ship is still a military ship.  It can't navigate Malaysian territorial waters without Malaysia's permission, nor can it do any "work" without the US navy sailors getting work visas to work in Malaysia.  this may sound stupid, but it's the truth.  In 2005, the Canadian Navy has a ship waiting for US State Secretary Rice to come back from a week-end shopping spree to give them permission to dock and start purifying water  for NOLA.  Had they not waited, it would have technically been an military invasion.

Third, look at a map.  the Indian mainland is a lot closer to the Andaman Islands than the Philipines.

Finally, as of last week, the USNS Mercy was in San Diego, CA.  Just a tad too far to be of any use.
 
2014-03-14 12:40:32 PM  

SirEattonHogg: Damn, if those poor bastards had the misfortune to crash land on or just off of North Sentinel island (part of the Andaman Island chain), the surviving passenger and crew have either been stabbed to death or eaten by the local tribesmen.


"An expedition led by Maurice Vidal Portman, a government administrator who hoped to research the natives and their customs, accomplished a successful landing on North Sentinel Island in January 1880. The group found a network of pathways and several small, abandoned villages. After several days, six Sentinelese were captured and taken to Port Blair. They soon became sick, and two of them died. The other four were returned to the island"


My God, Westerners have always been sneaky bastards.

North Sentinel is lucky to still be populated.
 
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