Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   Today's first world problem is brought to you by a college instructor who is upset students call her by her first name because she isn't a professor or a doctor   (slate.com) divider line 198
    More: Dumbass, teachers, Flagler, Inside Higher Ed, Dead Poets Society, University of New South Wales, colleges, professors  
•       •       •

6801 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



198 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-14 12:24:22 AM  
Listen, Doc. You put in a lot of work for your doctorate and I'll refer you as sic. I won't, however, respect you because of this pointless tirade. I doubt you'll call me Reverend even thoug I'm an ordained minister of a recognized church.

/Internet church.
//Friend wanted me to perform her wedding.
 
2014-03-14 12:25:50 AM  
FTFA: I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Not a doctor or professor? Submitter failed reading comprehension. And what she says is very real. I have female colleagues complain that former students of mine in her classes will refer to me as Dr. _______ when talking to her and then casually address her by her first name when they damn well know that she is Dr. _______. I see it with my female colleagues and African-American colleagues of both genders all the time.

Different colleges have different cultures. I once taught at a small liberal arts college where students and professors were encouraged to be on a first name basis. I never liked it but I played ball. At the larger institutions, you walk in and tell them up front you are Dr. so and so or Prof. so and so. Any rank, whether Lecturer, Assistant, Associate or otherwise, is entitled to be addressed as "Professor" when s/he is the "Instructor of Record" and thus responsible for the class to the registrar and department.
 
2014-03-14 12:30:22 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-14 12:31:33 AM  
Every TA I've ever been taught by has asked to be called by their given name
Some of my professors with Doctorates expected to be called Dr., some were ok with Professor, a couple even went by their given name
Those with Masters Degrees usually went by their given name or Professor

However, EVERY SINGLE ONE expected a respectful, professional tone when talking to them.  It wasn't what you called them, it was how you said it that mattered.
 
2014-03-14 12:52:19 AM  
I don't blame Dr. Gulliver for being annoyed; I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Oh, for f*ck's sake.
 
2014-03-14 02:55:51 AM  

HotWingAgenda: I don't blame Dr. Gulliver for being annoyed; I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Oh, for f*ck's sake.


Yeah, it's pathetic.  If she were fully confident in her ability to direct the course of study and energize the students through discussion, she would not need to rely on enforced verbal cues that puff her up and emphasize the inferiority of the students.
 
2014-03-14 02:59:02 AM  
And worse yet, at some institutions, such as Mr. Jefferson's Universitah, there has long been a tradition of professors with doctorates going by "Mr." and "Ms."

Someone get out the fainting couch for Mizzzzzzz Schuman!  I'm sure the educators at UVa suffer so much in the respect department by not being called "professor" at one of the leading institutions of higher learning in the entire country.  I mean, it's no UC-Irvine, but you know what I mean, toots.  Holy crap, the title thing is a big deal to you because you made it that way with this weirdly repressed arrogance.  If you want your students to call you professor, make that known on day one and don't act like you're life will be ruined if they screw it up.  If they call you something else, save the hissy fit for your poor husband.
 
2014-03-14 03:00:27 AM  
You're, your, whatever, I'm not a professor.  Even if I was, if you called me Mr. Vittles, I wouldn't write a column about it.
 
2014-03-14 04:05:36 AM  
What's wrong with HEY F*CK HEAD?
Seriously, if your teacher is so bent out of shape by a label, might as well drop the class, they will suck as a teacher.

Professor or Teacher.
TADA

Teacher works for ALL of them.

For the TA slaves? 
Whatever - who cares.
Sucks to be them no matter what you call them.
Buy them lunch and a beer and they will love you.
 
2014-03-14 04:28:24 AM  
A few months ago I started a new job at a large university and I continually have to look up email signatures or titles in our directory to get things right, and it's almost absurd because I'm not anyone's student.  However, it did lead to an amusing exchange with one of my staff members who recently got his PhD.  We've been trying to get a 1,200 node grid off the ground and the research chair who is first in line to use it spends most of his days harassing the staff about when it's going to be set up.  My lead engineer, who I'll call Thomas, has been butting heads with the chair, who I'll call Dr. Richard Antsypants.

All three of us were in the data center last week troubleshooting.  I've been on a first name basis with Richard since the beginning and we're talking like we usually do.  Thomas is explaining that no one can submit jobs yet because the Qlogic cards aren't working correctly and he calls Dr. Antsypants 'Richard', at which point Richard says "I'm a doctor."  Without missing a beat, Thomas said "So am I, but it doesn't seem to help for this particular issue."

I waited for a pissing contest to break out, but Richard laughed and now everyone is on a first name basis.  Students should defer to their instructors, but outside of that relationship you have to be a real jerk to start throwing titles around.  I don't make people call me Director LSherm at work and Thomas sure as hell doesn't make anyone call him Dr. Thomas.  In a formal setting, like during first introductions?  Sure, the title is appropriate.  If you're going to be working with someone who isn't your student for an extended period of time?  Be reasonable.
 
2014-03-14 05:03:37 AM  

namatad: What's wrong with HEY F*CK HEAD?


Because the moment you call your collage instructor that to your face, you'll end up hearing "I told you I wanted fries with that, asshole." for the rest of your life?
 
2014-03-14 05:27:24 AM  

hardinparamedic: namatad: What's wrong with HEY F*CK HEAD?

Because the moment you call your collage instructor that to your face, you'll end up hearing "I told you I wanted fries with that, asshole." for the rest of your life?


As long as you're still paying tuition, it's nigh impossible to get kicked out of school, absent criminal activity or severe cases of cheating.
 
2014-03-14 06:16:12 AM  

Lsherm: A few months ago I started a new job at a large university and I continually have to look up email signatures or titles in our directory to get things right, and it's almost absurd because I'm not anyone's student.  However, it did lead to an amusing exchange with one of my staff members who recently got his PhD.  We've been trying to get a 1,200 node grid off the ground and the research chair who is first in line to use it spends most of his days harassing the staff about when it's going to be set up.  My lead engineer, who I'll call Thomas, has been butting heads with the chair, who I'll call Dr. Richard Antsypants.

All three of us were in the data center last week troubleshooting.  I've been on a first name basis with Richard since the beginning and we're talking like we usually do.  Thomas is explaining that no one can submit jobs yet because the Qlogic cards aren't working correctly and he calls Dr. Antsypants 'Richard', at which point Richard says "I'm a doctor."  Without missing a beat, Thomas said "So am I, but it doesn't seem to help for this particular issue."

I waited for a pissing contest to break out, but Richard laughed and now everyone is on a first name basis.  Students should defer to their instructors, but outside of that relationship you have to be a real jerk to start throwing titles around.  I don't make people call me Director LSherm at work and Thomas sure as hell doesn't make anyone call him Dr. Thomas.  In a formal setting, like during first introductions?  Sure, the title is appropriate.  If you're going to be working with someone who isn't your student for an extended period of time?  Be reasonable.


I worked at a university for 8 years, and you could always tell who the insecure assholes were by how they demanded to be addressed. After one of them attempted to humiliate me by dressing me down in public for not calling him "doctor" I said "tell you what, Chuck, I'll address you as 'doctor last name' if you address me as 'mister last name' because as far as I'm concerned we're here on an equal basis."
Of course he wouldn't do that, because it was all about asserting his superiority and stroking his fragile ego.
 
2014-03-14 06:35:31 AM  
Some broads don't like being called dames. Get used to it.
 
2014-03-14 07:10:56 AM  
Start referring to her as "Dr.," but then deliberately get her last name wrong.

"Yes Dr. Sherbert."
"Here's my assignment Dr. Sherman."
"Sorry I was late Dr. Shortshiat."
"When's the next quiz Dr. Shoobie-doobie-doo?"
 
2014-03-14 07:13:36 AM  
If you're not an MD you shouldn't be called 'doctor'. And in this day and age you shouldn't expect much respect from any student you aren't providing an assistantship to.
 
2014-03-14 07:15:03 AM  
I prefer Mistress.
 
2014-03-14 07:16:14 AM  
It's Herr Diplom-Ingenieur MekkaB, thank you very much.
 
2014-03-14 07:17:39 AM  
look, if you can deliver a baby successfully I will call you "doctor" otherwise if you need a title you are an elitist pri*ck with a piece of paper you bought

/
 
2014-03-14 07:18:25 AM  
I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."
 
2014-03-14 07:18:41 AM  
Our grad department was a very lax environment, but we had a rule for consistency (and in case some landlubber took one of our courses).

While class is in session, call your professor "Doctor (Last Name)".  Outside of that, you can be on a first-name basis if you choose.

We also had a few other rules for general professionalism and decorum:

You weren't allowed to get your professor drunk the night before an exam.

You could sleep on the couch in the classroom if you were going to be in the building all night, but you couldn't do so naked.

Same goes for riding your bike in the hall after-hours.

It is completely unacceptable to use the bathroom for discussions pertaining to conspiracy.  That went double for the women's restroom.

And very related to the previous rule, professors were explicitly barred from playing Diplomacy with any student if they were on that student's thesis committee.  Especially if that student is playing as Germany or Austria.
 
2014-03-14 07:20:33 AM  
"Do me a favor, could you say 'professor' instead of 'ma'am?' It's just a thing, I worked so hard to get that title, so I'd appreciate it, yes, thank you."
 
2014-03-14 07:23:38 AM  

assjuice: If you're not an MD you shouldn't be called 'doctor'. And in this day and age you shouldn't expect much respect from any student you aren't providing an assistantship to.


Nope. Academics had the title "doctor" first. I'm Dr. PCoC, a physicist. The person who fondles my balls once a year (no, I'm not talking about Mrs. PCoC) is a physician.
 
2014-03-14 07:23:49 AM  
I really think Slate is just trolling us. I read half the article. At that point I realized that it was discussing a group of people who need therapy for what happened to them early in life.

When a student calls me "Mister," I do not correct the student because I am focused on his or her concern or idea or question. Maybe those teachers in the article would have a better position at university if they focused on the important things.

/professor
//tenured
///you can call me Steve if you like
 
2014-03-14 07:25:05 AM  
 It takes a particularly privileged individual to insist, though he   when he walks into a room (even in jeans), that respect must be earned.


You can make students call you whatever you want, but respect still has to be earned. I know a few people with the degree that I'll call them 'Doctor', that's just being civil. They still have to earn respect by their behavior.

'What's up, Knight?" may not be an acceptable term, however.
 
2014-03-14 07:25:49 AM  
She sounds bossy.
 
2014-03-14 07:26:07 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?
 
2014-03-14 07:26:10 AM  
Whatever, lady.

/ But you doesn't have to call me Johnson.
 
2014-03-14 07:27:41 AM  

diaphoresis: I prefer Mistress.


Me too, but please don't tell Mrs. KyDave
 
2014-03-14 07:29:42 AM  
You know, I don't even call my doctor "doctor." Theoretically, we're all adults. That written, presuming people are being inconsistent, that the author isn't projecting, and that she's actually being treated unfairly: that's wrong.

/I'd call the president "Mr. President," however.
//Or "Ms. President," and not even sneer.
 
2014-03-14 07:30:13 AM  
She IS in fact a PhD.http://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/about-us/people/katrina-gulliver/ , and teaching a class.  She isn't a TA.  That entitles her to the honorific of "Dr".

I work around a lot of PhDs.  I have also hung around in college for a few decades past getting my bachelors degree, scoring a masters and just taking classes.  IMHO, the general rule is that in the workplace, you call a PhD "Dr" until they tell you to knock it off.  In a university setting, I tend to use "professor" to indicate someone who is actually teaching a class, as opposed to pursuing work in their field.  Professor can be extended to instructors without doctorates, some of my instructors at community colleges have masters degrees.

A small amount of courtesy won't kill you, for heavens sake.  This is a university classroom, not the effing salad bar at Wendys.
 
2014-03-14 07:32:53 AM  
Any teacher with a PhD. should be addressed as Dr by students. If you have a Ph.D. and work in a regular job, expect to be Mr. or Ms.
 
2014-03-14 07:32:59 AM  
Oh get over yourselves. If I'm paying tens of thousands of dollars a year to take your courses, you work for me and I'll call you what I'm comfortable calling you. Miiizzzzzz. Schumann. I'm not paying big bucks to stroke your ego.

/so glad I got out of that college town
 
2014-03-14 07:34:21 AM  
I used to teach college courses as an adjunct. I have a master's but not a doctorate. And I didn't give a rat's ass what my students called me. Mostly they called me by my first name.

It's college. Everyone there is an adult.

To me, this professor sounds like someone who is so insecure that she clings to her position and her credentials as some sort of validation of her worth as a person, and regards any failure to properly recognize her position and credentials as some sort of personal affront.
 
2014-03-14 07:35:20 AM  
Unavailable for comment:

3.bp.blogspot.com

sorreldrydencopywriter.co.uk
 
2014-03-14 07:35:58 AM  
i am a teacher, and have many degrees. my students call me by my first name. it's cool

hey, some...how you doing?
how are you today mr. drinker?

meh
 
2014-03-14 07:36:00 AM  

UNC_Samurai: strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."

Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?


We are all Bob, embrace Bob, and accept Bob into your heart.

Welcome, Bob.
 
2014-03-14 07:40:25 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Unavailable for comment:


It's a real shame they didn't work Ace into the 50th. The audio plays with her going to the Gallifreyan Academy are quasi-canon, and she would have made for an interesting character during the Time War.
 
2014-03-14 07:40:32 AM  
Could just be me, but I was raised to always refer to someone by their title (if you know it, if you don't it's Mr. or Ms.), and that includes calling someone doctor ______ if they have a MD or PhD unless they ask you to address them otherwise. I had a few professors that said "you don't have to refer to me as doctor" and others that preferred to be referred to as doctor. It's up to the individual, but have respect for them and address them by their title and last name until they instruct you to do otherwise.

/dnrta
 
2014-03-14 07:42:05 AM  

Cybernetic: I used to teach college courses as an adjunct. I have a master's but not a doctorate. And I didn't give a rat's ass what my students called me. Mostly they called me by my first name.

It's college. Everyone there is an adult.

To me, this professor sounds like someone who is so insecure that she clings to her position and her credentials as some sort of validation of her worth as a person, and regards any failure to properly recognize her position and credentials as some sort of personal affront.


The thing is, that's YOUR call.
 
2014-03-14 07:44:16 AM  
Look if you have a Ph.D. related to your job then at work your title is Dr. Xxxxxx. Which is for formal communications, such as between student and teacher.

People in this thread who think that's pretentious will call all PhDs something else. That's Ok but it could also instantly identify you as someone who has a chip on their shoulder about degrees.
 
2014-03-14 07:47:06 AM  
Unless I knew they were a Doctor, I would always refer to my instructor as "Professor". Even if they were a doctor, I still did it when they told me to call them by their first name.

Prank Call of Cthulhu: assjuice: If you're not an MD you shouldn't be called 'doctor'. And in this day and age you shouldn't expect much respect from any student you aren't providing an assistantship to.

Nope. Academics had the title "doctor" first. I'm Dr. PCoC, a physicist. The person who fondles my balls once a year (no, I'm not talking about Mrs. PCoC) is a physician.


I'm glad I reread that, because I originally read that you were "Dr. PcOC, a Psychiatrist" and was about to ask if needed to have an MD on top of a PhD to be considered a Psychiatrist.

I need more coffee.
 
2014-03-14 07:48:54 AM  
Wait. Did this happen at MISTER Jefferson's university?
 
2014-03-14 07:49:35 AM  
I thought Gulliver was a first name??
 
2014-03-14 07:52:25 AM  

Animatronik: Look if you have a Ph.D. related to your job then at work your title is Dr. Xxxxxx. Which is for formal communications, such as between student and teacher.

People in this thread who think that's pretentious will call all PhDs something else. That's Ok but it could also instantly identify you as someone who has a chip on their shoulder about degrees.


Do I still have to call him Dr, Professor or Mr if I'm polishing his knob?

Have you ever been to a faculty party, where it becomes clear that half of them, married or not are farking their students (and the other half will openly tell you about their swingers club).
 
2014-03-14 07:53:04 AM  

namatad: For the TA slaves?
Whatever - who cares.
Sucks to be them no matter what you call them.
Buy them lunch and a beer and they will love you.


I was always nice to the teaching assistants.  It doesn't hurt to have someone in your corner when trouble crops up.  Hell, I had one TA talk a hardass professor into giving me a make-up when I slept through the final exam.
 
2014-03-14 07:53:29 AM  

OhioUGrad: Could just be me, but I was raised to always refer to someone by their title (if you know it, if you don't it's Mr. or Ms.), and that includes calling someone doctor ______ if they have a MD or PhD unless they ask you to address them otherwise. I had a few professors that said "you don't have to refer to me as doctor" and others that preferred to be referred to as doctor. It's up to the individual, but have respect for them and address them by their title and last name until they instruct you to do otherwise.

/dnrta


I had a Vice President at OU tell me that I could call him by his first name. I was an 18 year old freshman that just started so I had to pass since I didn't find it respectful. I had a lot of respect for the guy since he was spending his time in a Freshman intro class.
 
2014-03-14 07:53:59 AM  

dryknife: She sounds bossy.


+1

She sounds derpy.
 
2014-03-14 07:55:34 AM  
www.examiner.com


Dammit, Jim!
 
2014-03-14 07:56:04 AM  

strangeluck: UNC_Samurai: strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."

Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?

We are all Bob, embrace Bob, and accept Bob into your heart.

Welcome, Bob.


I think you're in violation of rule six, ya pommey bastard
 
2014-03-14 07:59:22 AM  
The instructor needs to move to Japan for this kind of treatment.
 
2014-03-14 08:02:42 AM  
"Today's first world problem"

Wrong. It's a USA problem, because of their obsession with stupid titles and passive agressive "politeness". The rest of the world got rid of that crap several decades ago.
 
2014-03-14 08:05:24 AM  

All Latest: "Today's first world problem"

Wrong. It's a USA problem, because of their obsession with stupid titles and passive agressive "politeness". The rest of the world got rid of that crap several decades ago.


New South Wales is in the US?
 
2014-03-14 08:05:26 AM  

Somacandra: FTFA: I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Not a doctor or professor? Submitter failed reading comprehension. And what she says is very real. I have female colleagues complain that former students of mine in her classes will refer to me as Dr. _______ when talking to her and then casually address her by her first name when they damn well know that she is Dr. _______. I see it with my female colleagues and African-American colleagues of both genders all the time.

Different colleges have different cultures. I once taught at a small liberal arts college where students and professors were encouraged to be on a first name basis. I never liked it but I played ball. At the larger institutions, you walk in and tell them up front you are Dr. so and so or Prof. so and so. Any rank, whether Lecturer, Assistant, Associate or otherwise, is entitled to be addressed as "Professor" when s/he is the "Instructor of Record" and thus responsible for the class to the registrar and department.


That was one of the things I found difficult going back to college in the US. Strangely enough I was on first name terms with most my lecturers and it freaked out the younger ones. I haven't had to use titles and last names since I was like 15 years old.
 
2014-03-14 08:05:28 AM  

Aar1012: OhioUGrad: Could just be me, but I was raised to always refer to someone by their title (if you know it, if you don't it's Mr. or Ms.), and that includes calling someone doctor ______ if they have a MD or PhD unless they ask you to address them otherwise. I had a few professors that said "you don't have to refer to me as doctor" and others that preferred to be referred to as doctor. It's up to the individual, but have respect for them and address them by their title and last name until they instruct you to do otherwise.

/dnrta

I had a Vice President at OU tell me that I could call him by his first name. I was an 18 year old freshman that just started so I had to pass since I didn't find it respectful. I had a lot of respect for the guy since he was spending his time in a Freshman intro class.


I think I've met more people in higher ed. that just like to be addressed by their first name than their title.

/were they the instructor?
 
2014-03-14 08:09:30 AM  

Somacandra: FTFA: I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Not a doctor or professor? Submitter failed reading comprehension. And what she says is very real. I have female colleagues complain that former students of mine in her classes will refer to me as Dr. _______ when talking to her and then casually address her by her first name when they damn well know that she is Dr. _______. I see it with my female colleagues and African-American colleagues of both genders all the time.

Different colleges have different cultures. I once taught at a small liberal arts college where students and professors were encouraged to be on a first name basis. I never liked it but I played ball. At the larger institutions, you walk in and tell them up front you are Dr. so and so or Prof. so and so. Any rank, whether Lecturer, Assistant, Associate or otherwise, is entitled to be addressed as "Professor" when s/he is the "Instructor of Record" and thus responsible for the class to the registrar and department.


Professors are entitled to be addressed as "professor." All others are "Mr." or "Ms." or whatever is appropriate. Speaking personally and for myself alone, with a Ph.D. from a top-ranked university and damn near 30 years in higher education (including twice serving as dean), I don't really give a hoot what the students call me just so long as they do their work, read, study, learn, and grow. If a student asks, I give them these options: Dean, Professor, Doctor, Colonel, or <first name>. Beyond that, it doesn't matter at all.

Reading your message and the original article appears to indicate that some folks have a seriously privileged view of the world. Well, there's that or the possibility of a teeny, tiny, little, bitty ego that bruises way too easily.

All the shiat in this world and someone has to get all crossways over titles? Ye gods!
 
2014-03-14 08:10:30 AM  

Animatronik: Any teacher with a PhD. should be addressed as Dr by students. If you have a Ph.D. and work in a regular job, expect to be Mr. or Ms.


I work with a lot of highly educated scientists and PHD's from one of the most repesected engineering institutes in the world.  Some get pretty frickin uppity if you don't call them "Doctor".    Yes, they suck.  But we are not here as equals. They are heading up some pretty big projects and I'm just on the team.

Typically   with superiors I address them as "sir" when in a group, in private discussion  I call them by thier first name.  It's actaully all about respect which comes through in your tone and demanour.  But we're pretty formal around here.
 
2014-03-14 08:10:39 AM  
Anybody ever work with a jerk who had a PhD and insisted on being called Doctor by his colleagues?  That is truly obnoxious.  We're peers.  A PhD in physics doesn't magically entitle you to respect when you work in a field totally unrelated to physics.

I used to get into frequent arguments with a guy who would pull out a "that's DOCTOR HisLastname to you!" whenever he was wrong and didn't want to admit it.  I insisted he refer to me as Grand Nagus MyLastname on a few occasions and he didn't seem to get the joke.
 
2014-03-14 08:12:43 AM  
Are you in an academic environment? Play by the academic rules. Students use the titles of instructors. Colleagues are equals.
 
2014-03-14 08:13:13 AM  
Author:  "I'm better than all of you and it irritates me that you don't understand that or properly bow before my greatness."

Hey, author, go fark yourself.
 
2014-03-14 08:13:31 AM  
I used to manage a mailing list, as in list of addresses to post things to, of alumni from Oxford university. All the men on the list were addressed as "<Firstname> <Lastname> Esq." because it then didn't matter whether they were Mr, Dr, Prof, Sir or whatever.
 
2014-03-14 08:14:06 AM  
"Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

Fist fights over a parking space is not surprising in academia, so this little rant was pretty ho-hum.  But if you really want to see all the shades a complexion can go through, insist the pretentious academic address you by the military rank you've earned.  Then turn to the academic that isn't an insecure, effete nebbish and introduce yourself by your first name.

"Then it's Major Laobaojun, to you."  Turns around.  "Hi, I'm Lao, what department are you with?"
 
2014-03-14 08:14:23 AM  
She just added several floors to her Ivory tower with that article.
 
2014-03-14 08:16:58 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The person who fondles my balls once a year (no, I'm not talking about Mrs. PCoC) is a physician.


If they're an M.D., then they have a doctorate.  Which makes them as much a doctor as you.
 
2014-03-14 08:17:57 AM  
All but one of my teachers with doctorates insist on being called by their first name.  The only one who insists on being called doctor/professor is an insufferable prick.
 
2014-03-14 08:18:08 AM  
*checks that UNSW PhD woman's profile*

Well, she's teaching Asian History... I'm not too sure what she's expecting considering most of the people doing it are weaboo's just waiting for their requirement to study in *insert yellow fever flavour of the month country* so I'm not too sure what she's expecting. 
I guess it doesn't help that one of her books is titled "Modern Women in China and Japan: Gender, Feminism and Global Modernity Between the Wars " (We can see where this is going...)

Hell, most of the male lecturers in Civil Engineering are pretty lax. Hell, the 2IC of the school tells everyone to call him Mario because he looks like Mario from Super Mario Bros.

Then again, it's pretty much a non-issue. Something casual/informal like asking a question, you really shouldn't need to insert the title. Formal stuff like having to deal with admin issues or emailing the dean of the school. Yeah, check their title.

/May or may not be attending that university.
 
2014-03-14 08:18:26 AM  
As a college instructor ... but seriously, if she doesn't like them calling her something, she can establish it on the first day.  I know, for some people, especially those new to teaching, that being "tough" is difficult, but starting strong and staying that way makes all of the difference.  One of the newest trends I've noticed is that students are trying to call me just by my last name, with no Mr. or Dr. or anything associated with it.  That got slapped down quickly.

We have a new person is our department who has never taught before (!) and is really struggling with keeping discipline.  She described what one of her class is like and I told her: you realize that, if what you're saying is true, that at least two or three guys are actively sexually harassing you, and several others are openly disrespecting you.  She shrugged and said but there's nothing I can do about it!

\sigh
 
2014-03-14 08:19:33 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


That idea sucks, Bob.
 
2014-03-14 08:20:20 AM  

fireclown: Cybernetic: I used to teach college courses as an adjunct. I have a master's but not a doctorate. And I didn't give a rat's ass what my students called me. Mostly they called me by my first name.

It's college. Everyone there is an adult.

To me, this professor sounds like someone who is so insecure that she clings to her position and her credentials as some sort of validation of her worth as a person, and regards any failure to properly recognize her position and credentials as some sort of personal affront.

The thing is, that's YOUR call.


Yes, and she's perfectly within her rights to insist that her students address her by some sort of title.

But I think that in doing so, she reveals something about herself, and what it reveals is not terribly flattering.
 
2014-03-14 08:20:41 AM  
If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.
 
2014-03-14 08:25:27 AM  
I would NEVER refer to one of my professors by his or her first name. Always "Professor" or "Professor Lastname" to their faces. I had a professor in college who asked we call him Dave, and I just could not do it. I avoided calling him anything to his face. Never had a TA as a teacher, so I can't say what I'd do in that situation.

Even in law school, Professor. Most of them don't have PhDs, so they wouldn't be Doctor. Although I never had a college professor who went by Doctor either. I think it has to do with the distinction someone else mentioned -- I knew them in their professorial (teaching) capacity, so I called them that.
 
2014-03-14 08:27:27 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


Let's just call everyone "Bruce".

Then we can all walk around singing Monty Python's "Philosopher Song" all day.
 
2014-03-14 08:32:15 AM  
I only refer to female professors by their first name while I am banging them.
 
2014-03-14 08:32:47 AM  
The only people who want to be called doctor finished at the bottom of their class or got a honorary degree
 
2014-03-14 08:33:18 AM  

van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.


Nope.  As pointed out above, all doctors were originally PhDs, and MDs later adopted the same title for its prestige.
 
2014-03-14 08:33:58 AM  

van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.


Punkin', if they're medical doctors, they're just physicians who've adopted the pre-existing convention of referring to people who hold advanced degrees (PhD) as "Doctor."  Historically, physicians were "barbers" who got enamored of the titles the smart kids gave themselves and glommed on.

So if you are a medical doctor, you aren't a doctor.  You're a barber.
 
2014-03-14 08:34:13 AM  

OhioUGrad: Could just be me, but I was raised to always refer to someone by their title (if you know it, if you don't it's Mr. or Ms.), and that includes calling someone doctor ______ if they have a MD or PhD unless they ask you to address them otherwise. I had a few professors that said "you don't have to refer to me as doctor" and others that preferred to be referred to as doctor. It's up to the individual, but have respect for them and address them by their title and last name until they instruct you to do otherwise.

/dnrta


For a lot of people, it seems simple courtesy is too much effort.
It's sad, really.
 
2014-03-14 08:35:26 AM  

van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.


Then why did you feel the need to qualify your first usage of the word?
 
2014-03-14 08:36:48 AM  

Sprachkundige: I would NEVER refer to one of my professors by his or her first name. Always "Professor" or "Professor Lastname" to their faces. I had a professor in college who asked we call him Dave, and I just could not do it. I avoided calling him anything to his face. Never had a TA as a teacher, so I can't say what I'd do in that situation.

Even in law school, Professor. Most of them don't have PhDs, so they wouldn't be Doctor. Although I never had a college professor who went by Doctor either. I think it has to do with the distinction someone else mentioned -- I knew them in their professorial (teaching) capacity, so I called them that.


Just to add a complicating factor, a law degree is a Juris Doctor, which is obviously Doctorate level -- although there's never been any practice in calling a lawyer as "Doctor Barrister, Esq."
 
2014-03-14 08:38:11 AM  
Also, as a former adjunct w/a PhD, it's my observation that most of the jumped-up assholes who insist on titles tend to forget that, even though they are experts, they're always learners.  When teaching a class, even on material I've covered a thousand times, if I don't make it fresh, new, and exciting to me, the poor hoi polloi don't stand a chance.  I should learn just as much as they do. Or vice versa.
 
2014-03-14 08:41:32 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: As a college instructor ... but seriously, if she doesn't like them calling her something, she can establish it on the first day.  I know, for some people, especially those new to teaching, that being "tough" is difficult, but starting strong and staying that way makes all of the difference.  One of the newest trends I've noticed is that students are trying to call me just by my last name, with no Mr. or Dr. or anything associated with it.  That got slapped down quickly.

"

Most students, then, have no idea what to call us, so it's up to us to let them know, immediately. On the first day of class, and in the syllabus, say: "I'm Dr. Schuman." Or, "I'm Martika." Or, "I'm Count von Count." Whatever you want to be called, name yourself this thing in person and on the syllabus-and if the students don't catch on, don't be afraid to correct them (even if, in Gulliver's case, you have to do this over and over). And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to treat you like a dance teacher, they'd best be ready to plié."
 
2014-03-14 08:44:41 AM  
True, it is a first-world problem.  In the rest of the world students would have more respect.
 
2014-03-14 08:46:10 AM  

OhioUGrad: Aar1012: OhioUGrad: Could just be me, but I was raised to always refer to someone by their title (if you know it, if you don't it's Mr. or Ms.), and that includes calling someone doctor ______ if they have a MD or PhD unless they ask you to address them otherwise. I had a few professors that said "you don't have to refer to me as doctor" and others that preferred to be referred to as doctor. It's up to the individual, but have respect for them and address them by their title and last name until they instruct you to do otherwise.

/dnrta

I had a Vice President at OU tell me that I could call him by his first name. I was an 18 year old freshman that just started so I had to pass since I didn't find it respectful. I had a lot of respect for the guy since he was spending his time in a Freshman intro class.

I think I've met more people in higher ed. that just like to be addressed by their first name than their title.

/were they the instructor?


He was the instructor, yes. The only instructor I had that I called by their first name was my 100 level German instructor and that's because she was a grad student with a difficult Austrian name to pronounce.

/Ironically, she was working on a Master's in English.
 
2014-03-14 08:46:51 AM  
At least in my department, there really isn't much consternation about such things -- just possible ignorance by the students as to what the correct salutation is.

For undergraduates in classes:

If your title includes the word Professor (be it Assistant, Associate or Full), you go by "Prof. Lastname"
If your title does not include the word Professor, but you have a Ph.D., you go by "Dr. Lastname"
If you do not have a Ph.D., and therefore are not qualified to be a professor, you go by "Mr./Ms. Lastname"

The last option includes TAs officially, although many of them go on a first name basis due to the almost zero age difference between themselves and their students.

For members of a research group:

If graduate students are present, the group tends to be on a first name basis. If it's a primarily undergrad institution, then it can be a bit more formal, but possibly just calling the Professor as "Boss" or "Lastname" only.
 
2014-03-14 08:47:13 AM  
Can I just call her "Sugar Teats"?
 
2014-03-14 08:51:18 AM  
I teach as part of my job.  I don't care what they call me- Dr. Hero, Mr. Hero, Professor Hero, Glockenspiel, etc, all I ask is that they pronounce my (tricky) last name correctly.  Ironically, most end up calling me Professor which is the one title that's not correct- I'm staff even though I have a Ph.D.  Every year I get a couple who call me by my first name- you can tell it's sort of a "I'm not in high school anymore- can I get away with this?" thing, which is fine by me.

A few years back we had a visiting ABD (All But Doctorate) professor from Africa who refused to call anyone anything other than "Dr. XXXX", even his coworkers in social situations.  He explained that where he came from folks with the title had earned it and that it was only proper courtesy.  There was a minor celebration at one faculty lunch when it was announced that his thesis was accepted and he could start using our first names.
 
2014-03-14 08:51:19 AM  

SirEattonHogg: Can I just call her "Sugar Teats"?


No, broads hate disrespectful terms like that.
 
2014-03-14 08:52:04 AM  
Listen listen listen Linda, honey.
 
2014-03-14 08:53:34 AM  

Aar1012: SirEattonHogg: Can I just call her "Sugar Teats"?

No, broads hate disrespectful terms like that.


How many times do I have to tell you? Don't call chicks "broads"
 
2014-03-14 08:53:55 AM  
moviesmedia.ign.com

Doctor?  Doctor!  Doctor.

/obscure?  surely not.
 
2014-03-14 08:55:06 AM  
I insist my students call me "Captain, oh captain."

Not really; I don't give a shiat what they call me.
 
2014-03-14 08:58:11 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


upload.wikimedia.org

/need more slack
 
2014-03-14 09:02:56 AM  
None of my professors at university in my undergraduate course gave two shiats if we called them "sir/ma'am", "Professor ([Last Name]), "Doctor ([Last Name])" or their first name, Most of them actively encouraged us to use their first names.

Chances are if a student doesn't respect you, insisting on using your title isn't going to help. And if they do respect you, then you should know that referring to you by your first name or your title doesn't change that.
 
2014-03-14 09:03:18 AM  
I did a few months of teaching when I was between engineering jobs back in 2008.  Some of the students tried calling me Mr. and I told them that they can call me whatever they like but not to be surprised if I didn't respond because nobody in my entire life had ever called me Mr.
 
2014-03-14 09:05:15 AM  
"Don't call me 'Sir,' I work for a living."
 
2014-03-14 09:07:51 AM  

Lsherm: Prank Call of Cthulhu: The person who fondles my balls once a year (no, I'm not talking about Mrs. PCoC) is a physician.

If they're an M.D., then they have a doctorate.  Which makes them as much a doctor as you.



If you want to split hairs, in the US and some other places the MD and DO are both "professional doctorates", meaning that the degree entails a certain amount of classroom instruction and job training.

In contrast, the Ph.D. in most (all?) other fields is a "research doctorate" which contains some small amount of instruction, but the primary content is learning how to do research in that field.

The medical field used to have this distinction- the original title granted to doctors upon completion of a medical program used to be an MB, a bachelor of medicine and/or surgery. The MD was reserved for higher achievement within doctoring. Nowadays a doctor who does research in medicine will probably bear the title MD/PhD, which translates to the tortured "Doctor of Medicine and of Philosophy (of Medicine)".

So to sum up, PCoC was correct. The original degree for what we now call a medical doctor was in fact a bachelor's of medicine, and calling a physician a doctor at that time would have been improper. At some point they decided that everyone with a medical degree should be called a doctor, and muddied the whole situation up. This can be seen in the latin root for both MD and PhD, where the latin word "doctor" literally means "teacher".
 
2014-03-14 09:10:29 AM  
As an adjunct, I'm really getting a kick, etc....

Students have no clue as to the insanity that is official pay grade / title use, at least in my experience. The general assumption seems to be if you're standing in front of everyone and assigning grades, you're "professor", though I can appreciate that for someone with tenure that fights to get research money, maybe they feel like they deserve the title more. I'm fine with Mr. Bunyip, though I still look around for my dad when they say it.
 
2014-03-14 09:15:16 AM  
I am a woman, I teach freshmen algebra.  I try to get my students to call me by my first name.  Most of my students are terrified of math and I want them to not be intimidated by me.  Most of them can't bring themselves to call me by my first name.  I did have one semester where two students in my class already knew me from before the class and called me Zanni.
 
2014-03-14 09:15:38 AM  
Pretty sure most of her students are over 18 and no one should call an adult anything but their first name.

Unless if they are in an inferior position to them, eg. military, etc.   I would never call my boss's by anything but their first name, I am not their servant.

She complains too much.
 
2014-03-14 09:19:28 AM  

Donnchadha: Just to add a complicating factor, a law degree is a Juris Doctor, which is obviously Doctorate level -- although there's never been any practice in calling a lawyer as "Doctor Barrister, Esq."


The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)".

The ideal situation is that people would just recognize that all fields have a primary degree, some number of secondary degrees, and then a terminal degree. The primary degree means that you're proficient to practice, the secondary degrees mean that you have gained expert achievement in some speciality areas, and the terminal degree means that you're at the top of the field.
 
2014-03-14 09:23:51 AM  
I make everyone call me Maestro.
 
2014-03-14 09:27:38 AM  

van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.


If you haven't done independent research, written it up in a thesis and defended it then you aren't a farking doctor, whatever your job title happens to be.

Coming next: tree surgeons.
 
2014-03-14 09:28:35 AM  
I feel her pain. No matter how insistent I am, people refuse to call my be my title (Lord and Supreme Master of the Known Universe and Crusher of Souls Baconbeard).
 
2014-03-14 09:29:07 AM  

All Latest: Wrong. It's a USA problem, because of their obsession with stupid titles and passive agressive "politeness". The rest of the world got rid of that crap several decades ago.


Japan lives and dies by proper educate which includes proper titles. Theirs are often in the form of their honorifics. There's a big difference between -san, -chan, and -sama, example. Sensei would be a catch-all for a person of respect. A physician, politician, or member of academia could all be called sensei. It's not uncommon for people to be referred to only by their respective title by their everyone who isn't a close friend.

Anyway,

This lady sounds like she assumed that being bestowed a title meant automatic respect and that the form of this respect will be showed by the title being used. She sounds like an authoritarian. She sounds like a "Boy, you call me sir" kind of person.

You can't force respect. It must be earned. The showing of this respect will come in many different ways from many different people. Not everyone will view the idea of calling someone by their full title as a form of respect. If you're students don't respect you then that wont change even if they are forced to call you doctor/professor/whatever.

Quick CSB. My ex's parents (mother, really, as she controlled the father) didn't want me to use their first names. She was the mr/ms (last name) type. She was also a manipulative, controlling, two faced, racist biatch. So I never used their first or last name. Ever. Out of spite. For more than half a decade I never initiated a conversation with either by using their name. I just started talking at them.

I, unfortunately, ran into them recently at a store. I just used their first names because I no longer have to worry about causing friction among that family anymore. Fark them.

/I only ever called my college professors Mr/Ms [last name] or by their first name. They preferred it that way.
 
2014-03-14 09:30:22 AM  

Kirkenhegelstein: van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.

Punkin', if they're medical doctors, they're just physicians who've adopted the pre-existing convention of referring to people who hold advanced degrees (PhD) as "Doctor."  Historically, physicians were "barbers" who got enamored of the titles the smart kids gave themselves and glommed on.

So if you are a medical doctor, you aren't a doctor.  You're a barber.


Wrong-o. It's surgeons who were originally barbers, which is why, in the UK, surgeons are always Ms, Mr, Mrs or Miss and never Dr.

PhD's, incidentally, are Johnny-come-lately degrees. Proper doctorates are the senior ones: DLitt, DMus, DD, DSc and so on.
 
2014-03-14 09:33:14 AM  
Depends on where you live.

At UC Boulder, I was a grad student teaching a class, and I told my kids not to call me professor.  They all went with my first name, except one who called me professor dave just to annoy me (he was alright, though).

In South Dakota, I'm still a grad student.  Kids ALWAYS call me professor [last name].  Doesn't matter if I tell them not to or what.

Also, fark off, Will Miller (guy in the article).  Damn near anyone who has actually listened to women TAs or professors about their experience knows that it's much, much, MUCH easier to cultivate a "cool, casual, but still respected" attitude as a male instructor.

Nobody's ever come up to me at the end of the first day of class and told me how to do my job better, and frankly, sometimes they probably should.
 
2014-03-14 09:33:44 AM  

zanni: I am a woman, I teach freshmen algebra.  I try to get my students to call me by my first name.  Most of my students are terrified of math and I want them to not be intimidated by me.  Most of them can't bring themselves to call me by my first name.


If they find it difficult, for whatever reason, to use your first name then insisting they use it will only add to their stress level. Is that really the result you want?
 
2014-03-14 09:40:36 AM  
.Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?
 
2014-03-14 09:45:45 AM  
 "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.
 
2014-03-14 09:48:27 AM  
I never had a professor that had this issue. They were all PhD, long time, very experienced educators. They were all respected in their fields before they taught my classes. The only time we did not use titles was with the science class assistants who insisted we use their first names. No problem there because most of them were only 2 years ahead of us. This article writer seems overly sensitive for no reason other than possibly ego issues or lack of confidence. If either case is the issue, education should probably not be their first choice of employment in the first place.
 
2014-03-14 09:49:56 AM  
I've found that if you'd call PhD's "Doctor", they tend to deliberately screw up your coffee order. (e.g. fat free soy milk instead of cream)
 
2014-03-14 09:55:05 AM  

LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.


lol.

Have you taught college?
 
2014-03-14 09:57:08 AM  
It's a matter of common courtesy and manners.
If you are in a business or professional setting (and that includes the classroom), don't use a person's first name until they invite you to do so.
 
2014-03-14 10:04:02 AM  

nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)".

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?


You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).
 
2014-03-14 10:04:31 AM  

Langdon_777: Pretty sure most of her students are over 18 and no one should call an adult anything but their first name.

Unless if they are in an inferior position to them, eg. military, etc.   I would never call my boss's by anything but their first name, I am not their servant.

She complains too much.


Why do you consider that if you don't call someone by thier first name, that you're thier servant?  If someone has a title, it's usually proper to address them by it unless they request you don't.  The use of Sir, Miss, Ma'am is just common courtesy.  I don't do it because I feel inferior to them. I do it because I try to be a gentleman.  I find it strange that  some people feel that showing common courtesy/respect for others is considered a sign of  inferiority?
 
2014-03-14 10:04:36 AM  

Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?


Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.
 
2014-03-14 10:10:17 AM  
I've worked with (and in) both fairly formal and pretty informal companies and academic settings. Based on my limited, biased sample of experiences:

If you have a new client (defined as "someone outside the firm who is or might be paying"), you address each other as you normally do, but address the client formally unless and until he/she indicates otherwise. You also dress formally when meeting a client, although the rules for this vary (e.g. ties can be a source of nosocomial infections; if the meeting is in a hospital, be aware that several hospitals are starting to discourage them).

If you work with Americans or Canadians, having a colleague insist on being addressed by their title is a red flag. Older, younger, several degrees (e.g. MD/Ph.D) or just one, it's pretty much the norm to address each other by the first name in a professional or research setting. We even leave off titles when putting our names on abstracts - every character counts.

Japanese and German researchers working in the US tend to ask to be addressed by their first names very early in the working relationship. Japanese (and to a lesser extent German) researchers working in their home countries tend to be a bit more formal.

The only times I've felt the need to be formal with a teacher is when the teacher is very young and inexperienced. I believe it's a good idea to address these teachers formally unless and until they feel comfortable enough to indicate otherwise. This applies to any class, not just classes in a formal academic setting (the martial arts school I attended would make students lead classes as a part of the black belt training; the older students/black belts would set the example by suddenly becoming more formal). Older, more experienced teachers will find ways to verbally shut you down if you're actually being disrespectful.

I agree with a lot of the Farkers in this thread that a young, inexperienced teacher who insists on formal address is being more clueless than they should about how their actions affect how they're perceived. I cannot imagine one of those students, after they go on to work in industry, recommending that their company hire this teacher as a consultant, for example.

/Yes, a wall of text, sorry.
 
2014-03-14 10:11:08 AM  
CtrlAltDestroy


....
You can't force respect. It must be earned.  .


Usually I think just the opposite, that respects is autmaticaly given until some one does something to the countrary.,

/well not here on FARK of course...
 
2014-03-14 10:13:26 AM  

2 grams: Animatronik: Any teacher with a PhD. should be addressed as Dr by students. If you have a Ph.D. and work in a regular job, expect to be Mr. or Ms.

I work with a lot of highly educated scientists and PHD's from one of the most repesected engineering institutes in the world.  Some get pretty frickin uppity if you don't call them "Doctor".    Yes, they suck.  But we are not here as equals. They are heading up some pretty big projects and I'm just on the team.

Typically   with superiors I address them as "sir" when in a group, in private discussion  I call them by thier first name.  It's actaully all about respect which comes through in your tone and demanour.  But we're pretty formal around here.


The big shot is in place "heading up the team" because academic politics. You're a degreed student just "part of the team" let me guess, making, oh, $20K to $25K/yr for the privelige LOL. Yes, definitely keep sucking dick while you're there (then get a real, well paying job in the real world).

Academic politics make me sick.
 
2014-03-14 10:16:12 AM  

Danger Mouse: Langdon_777: Pretty sure most of her students are over 18 and no one should call an adult anything but their first name.

Unless if they are in an inferior position to them, eg. military, etc.   I would never call my boss's by anything but their first name, I am not their servant.

She complains too much.

Why do you consider that if you don't call someone by thier first name, that you're thier servant?  If someone has a title, it's usually proper to address them by it unless they request you don't.  The use of Sir, Miss, Ma'am is just common courtesy.  I don't do it because I feel inferior to them. I do it because I try to be a gentleman.  I find it strange that  some people feel that showing common courtesy/respect for others is considered a sign of  inferiority?


I actually just read some websites addressing proper address etiquette in the modern, technical world and the old sir/madam at the top of professional correspondence is apparently now considered antiquated to the point of an insult. Apparently, people believe they are being called "old" or something similar to an unnecessary cog in the process with these addresses. Calling people with titles like "Mr./Mrs./Miss" is also considered insulting in the modern world, because we are not treating them like individuals. Only medical doctors and college professors apparently get to use a title, because we don't use titles with our lawyers either. What used to pass for common courtesy is now a display of superiority or dismissive, apparently. I find it very confusing compared to the way I was brought up where everyone got that extra level of respect, however I guess it's not much of an issue for most people today.
 
2014-03-14 10:17:03 AM  

nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?


It seems like law has a lot of funny titles, and I'm not an expert, so don't take my word for it.

My impression was that the JD is a primary degree. The LLM is a secondary degree that entails specific focus in a particular area of law, and is more of a professional master's degree. I think an LLM is enough to teach at most law schools with a proven track record in practice, but AFAIK law school faculties tend to be a little more "practice-driven" in general. The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD, though the JSD/SJD appears to be more common than the JD/PhD. Both of those terminal degrees are academic research degrees, that usually require original contributions and a dissertation-equivalent body of work.
 
2014-03-14 10:21:58 AM  

Animatronik: Look if you have a Ph.D. related to your job then at work your title is Dr. Xxxxxx. Which is for formal communications, such as between student and teacher.

People in this thread who think that's pretentious will call all PhDs something else. That's Ok but it could also instantly identify you as someone who has a chip on their shoulder about degrees.


Depends.
In Ireland, everyone is referred to by their first name, with a few exceptions (or it's fairer to say, in my experience), and that's not impolite*. Those exceptions being teachers in Primary and Secondary school, top level government ministers and my GP. Also, I don't work in a higher level academic institution.
In my line of work, construction, it's first names. That goes for my bosses too.

Even with my GP I feel uncomfortable not calling him by his name, like I'm being rude or dismissive.

*The southern US thing of "Sir" and "Ma'am" seems a bit alien, in particular for your S.O's parents. Do you wait for permission to call them by their given name or what?

/Not sure if a northern US thing too
//Definitely not criticizing, it's just a different way of doing things.
///"Mr. Prime Minister...............ANDY!"
 
2014-03-14 10:25:00 AM  

eraser8: You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).


You're right. I happen to know a JD/PhD... I didn't know he was an odd bird.

It looks like JD/PhD more commonly refers to a JD coupled with a PhD in an area outside law, for people who want to focus on the law and the technical details of a separate field (e.g. if you want to craft technology law and actually understand the physical actions taking place inside computers).
 
2014-03-14 10:26:14 AM  

Fubini: The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD


I'm not aware of any law school that awards a PhD, as such.  Every JD/PhD program that I know of requires separate admission to the law school and to a PhD granting graduate school at the University.

For example, let's say you're in the Stanford JD/PhD program.  That means that you've been accepted, separately, to both the law school and to a doctoral program in the, say, the School of Humanities and Sciences.
 
2014-03-14 10:27:59 AM  

Fubini: It looks like JD/PhD more commonly refers to a JD coupled with a PhD in an area outside law


Yep.  And, now my reply to you looks completely unnecessary.  So, please disregard.
 
2014-03-14 10:28:01 AM  

Fubini: nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?

It seems like law has a lot of funny titles, and I'm not an expert, so don't take my word for it.

My impression was that the JD is a primary degree. The LLM is a secondary degree that entails specific focus in a particular area of law, and is more of a professional master's degree. I think an LLM is enough to teach at most law schools with a proven track record in practice, but AFAIK law school faculties tend to be a little more "practice-driven" in general. The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD, though the JSD/SJD appears to be more common than the JD/PhD. Both of those terminal degrees are academic research degrees, that usually require original contributions and a dissertation-equivalent body of work.


Per Wikipedia, Doctor of Laws (LLD) is the terminal honorary degree in the U.S. (I don't know anyone with that degree, so I'll just stick with the wiki reference.)
 
2014-03-14 10:28:12 AM  
I think that in honor of this thread, I shall make people call me "Fireclown, MBA" for the rest of the morning.
 
2014-03-14 10:30:18 AM  
When I was doing my post-doctoral work in molecular biology, my boss who was a star researcher and cross appointed to the university was once introduced by his then 10 year old son thusly: "My dad's a doctor...but not the kind that helps people".
Funny at the time, especially as his specialty was molecular therapeutics.
 
2014-03-14 10:33:22 AM  
Who in the world would refer to a professor by their first name?  That's absurd.   It's "Prof. Soandso", or in some cases, its just "Soandso" (usually when I was angry, like "Soandso's test really screwed me").   I never use the first name.

It's the same reason I would call my friends parents Mr and Mrs Whatshisname when I was young.  Now that I am older its a bit more confusing, but I still usually just default with the Mr/Mrs.   Its also why I get rankled when a salesman calls me by my first name.   You don't know me.   You call me Mr. Uptight.

But anyways, its just common decorum.  There's nothing really clever or rebellious about ignoring it, its just ignorant and disrespectful.   That said feel free to call your TA's whatever you want, and try and get drunk with them if you can
 
2014-03-14 10:36:22 AM  

pkellmey: Per Wikipedia, Doctor of Laws (LLD) is the terminal honorary degree in the U.S. (I don't know anyone with that degree, so I'll just stick with the wiki reference.)


When Wikipedia says that the LLD is only awarded as an honorary degree, they're giving you the giant hint that it isn't the terminal law degree in the United States.  Wikipedia cites the correct terminal degree just a couple of entries above LLD.  It's the JSD.
 
2014-03-14 10:36:23 AM  
My photography teacher, who was in her earl 30's (and from the north east) got on to me for saying ma'am and Ms.

I apologized, but assured her my Grandmother would find out if I disrespected a woman. And my severe beating would be on her head.
 
2014-03-14 10:37:39 AM  

Necronic: Who in the world would refer to a professor by their first name?  That's absurd.   It's "Prof. Soandso", or in some cases, its just "Soandso" (usually when I was angry, like "Soandso's test really screwed me").   I never use the first name.

It's the same reason I would call my friends parents Mr and Mrs Whatshisname when I was young.  Now that I am older its a bit more confusing, but I still usually just default with the Mr/Mrs.   Its also why I get rankled when a salesman calls me by my first name.   You don't know me.   You call me Mr. Uptight.

But anyways, its just common decorum.  There's nothing really clever or rebellious about ignoring it, its just ignorant and disrespectful.   That said feel free to call your TA's whatever you want, and try and get drunk with them if you can


You are welcome to come onto my lawn.
 
2014-03-14 10:47:54 AM  

Ricardo Klement: "Do me a favor, could you say 'professor' instead of 'ma'am?' It's just a thing, I worked so hard to get that title, so I'd appreciate it, yes, thank you."


Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.
 
2014-03-14 10:51:53 AM  
Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!
 
2014-03-14 10:54:28 AM  

MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.


He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too
 
2014-03-14 10:58:32 AM  

quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!


That's why we refer to some customs as refered to as"common courtesies"  Only in unique settings would concern over the silverware be an issue, but politely referering to someone by appropriate titles  is pretty much considered common, much like saying "please" and "thank you".
 
2014-03-14 11:17:23 AM  
Donnchadha: MythDragon: Me: So...you like...heal paintings?Ass: ...No. I study them.Me: And I should call you doctor because...?Ass: I earned it.Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.Ass: You're not in uniform.Me: Neither are you.Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too


The conversation passed the point of no return on the asshole front when someone insisted on being addressed by their academic title in a social setting*. I don't even see a way to withdraw from the conversation that early in a classy way without outside help.

I also thought it was kind of funny, but that's beside the point.

/*It's no more appropriate than a high-level martial artist insisting on being addressed as "master" everywhere he/she goes.
 
2014-03-14 11:17:47 AM  
Where I teach, the custom is that the folks standing in front of the classroom are called "Professor" by the undergrad students, especially in the larger classes.  Well, they actually call me "pruhfessuh", what with the accent and all.  I've told them they can call me by my first name (I'm an ABD grad student), but most don't.  [shrug]

The foreign students tend to be quite formal - I've received emails addressed to "Most esteemed professor" and the like.  It's actually embarrassing. I feel like I'm reading email for someone else.
 
2014-03-14 11:27:28 AM  

quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!


Work the forks (and other silverware) from the outside in towards the plate, as the courses go on.

Knife and spoon go on the right-hand side, fork goes on the left-hand side. Most people use a knife in conjunction with the fork, so they go on opposite sides of the plate.

These sorts of manners don't matter in 99.999% of the situations you'll be in, but you should be able to simulate a proper gentleman long enough to avoid causing problems between your child and their pretentious parents-in-law-to-be at the wedding dinner.

/I agree that calling someone by their title doesn't matter in 99.999% of the situations.
 
2014-03-14 11:29:05 AM  
Lot of conjecture here about the author's possible self esteem/entitlement/personality issues, and I don't know about that, nor care.  I was a master's-level adjunct in a grad program for a number of years, and I personally asked students to call me by my first name, but that's me; I can sort of see some of her point about the importance of the title.

That said, I consider this article a bit of a misfire from an otherwise very talented writer, and I am a fan of the other articles she's written for Slate.  Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.
 
2014-03-14 11:32:52 AM  

bralanko: Lot of conjecture here about the author's possible self esteem/entitlement/personality issues, and I don't know about that, nor care.  I was a master's-level adjunct in a grad program for a number of years, and I personally asked students to call me by my first name, but that's me; I can sort of see some of her point about the importance of the title.

That said, I consider this article a bit of a misfire from an otherwise very talented writer, and I am a fan of the other articles she's written for Slate.  Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.


Find the web page, then highlight a few words of your post, then click the chain-like button in the upper right-hand area of the comment window you type your post in. Copy the link into that pop-up window.
 
2014-03-14 11:39:37 AM  

bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.


She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.
 
2014-03-14 11:49:13 AM  

draypresct: Donnchadha: MythDragon: Me: So...you like...heal paintings?Ass: ...No. I study them.Me: And I should call you doctor because...?Ass: I earned it.Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.Ass: You're not in uniform.Me: Neither are you.Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too

The conversation passed the point of no return on the asshole front when someone insisted on being addressed by their academic title in a social setting*. I don't even see a way to withdraw from the conversation that early in a classy way without outside help.

I also thought it was kind of funny, but that's beside the point.

/*It's no more appropriate than a high-level martial artist insisting on being addressed as "master" everywhere he/she goes.


When someone says

Nice to meet you Mr Smith,
Actually it's Doctor
Oh, Nice to meet you Doctor Smith, (note you don't first say "oh, you a surgeon or sumptin?")


Carry on a polite coversation, maybe even ask in what field he is in but   make a mental note that your dealing with a dick,  and exit quiickly.

Unless he's a medical doctor, then say "hey doc, can you take a look a this? -drop you pants- Does this look infected to you?"
 
2014-03-14 11:52:31 AM  

UNC_Samurai: strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."

Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?


i2.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-14 11:57:05 AM  
I grew up in an academic family.  As Somacandra mentioned, all instructors in higher education regardless of rank may be addressed as Professor, regardless of their job title.

The article references the Mr and Ms custom at the University of Virginia, but I am also familiar with the University of Chicago's longstanding tradition of addressing doctorate-holding faculty as Professor.  This is somewhat equalizing, insomuch as getting to teach at U of C ipso facto means you are qualified to do so, even if you are doing so on an MA - or if your field is one in which the doctorate is not commonplace such as fine arts (as the article mentioned) or library science (in which I hold a degree, though I work outside the profession right now).

I taught accounting one semester before I transferred over to doing graduate work in history instead - I asked my students to address me as Mr. Lastname (I was technically a part-time instructor, but I conceptualized the arrangement as a de-facto overload on my graduate research assistantship, and that was the norm for graduate assistants at that school).  Some called me Professor anyhow, and that was fine, since I was the instructor.


(Disclaimer: my wife is an employee of an institution named above)
 
2014-03-14 11:57:24 AM  
I'm male and have a doctorate, and can count on one hand the number of times I've been called "Doctor" without it being a part of friends' snark.
 
2014-03-14 11:59:01 AM  

Donnchadha: MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too.



I never claimed other wise :)
It was like Bill Engvall said in the Blue Collar tour. "When I got up this morning, I didn't want to be jackass. You just pushed my jackass button." I started off very polite. Then he pushed my dick button.

/That didn't sound right...
 
2014-03-14 12:00:49 PM  
One thing's for sure: with this article, she's pretty much guaranteed to never be called "Doctor" or "Professor" by anyone ever again.
 
2014-03-14 12:03:45 PM  

draypresct: bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.

She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.


Thanks for the tip re: posting links.  I think her article is clever and it made me smile.  This sort of piece doesn't call for "data," but the reason I liked it so much is that I've seen firsthand so many examples of precisely the type of PowerPoint abuse she cites.  You haven't, I guess?
 
2014-03-14 12:06:03 PM  

serial_crusher: Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?

Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.


Though you're not being a dick like the previous poster, I'm going to be one and stick with:

lol.

Have you taught college?
 
2014-03-14 12:08:43 PM  
FTFA: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority).

"Translation: "I'm an uptight broad with an inferiority complex... but I don't wanna SOUND like that."
 
2014-03-14 12:21:29 PM  
I put Dr. Prof. Seelorq, Ph.D. on my syllabi. Students usually remember one of those titles.

California uber alles.
 
2014-03-14 12:26:21 PM  

bralanko: draypresct: bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.

She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.

Thanks for the tip re: posting links.  I think her article is clever and it made me smile.  This sort of piece doesn't call for "data," but the reason I liked it so much is that I've seen firsthand so many examples of precisely the type of PowerPoint abuse she cites.  You haven't, I guess?


I've seen PowerPoint used extremely poorly. I've seen addition used extremely poorly as well (e.g. X% of the sample were male, Y% had the disease, so (X+Y)% were male and/or had the disease). Finding examples of poor use doesn't mean that you should stop using either PowerPoint or addition.

Her presentation didn't address the problem she raised, and her tips for improving your presentations would actually make them much worse. Real communication has a bit of redundancy built in.

This sort of piece doesn't call for "data,"

If the purpose of her piece was to entertain, then you're right, she doesn't need data (after all, I read "Cracked"). If the purpose was to inform, then she should have spent a couple of minutes on Google first.
 
2014-03-14 12:28:03 PM  

eraser8: nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)".

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?

You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).


Ah yes, the Sweet Science.
 
2014-03-14 12:29:02 PM  

l0n3w0lf00: *checks that UNSW PhD woman's profile*

Well, she's teaching Asian History... I'm not too sure what she's expecting considering most of the people doing it are weaboo's just waiting for their requirement to study in *insert yellow fever flavour of the month country* so I'm not too sure what she's expecting. 
I guess it doesn't help that one of her books is titled "Modern Women in China and Japan: Gender, Feminism and Global Modernity Between the Wars " (We can see where this is going...)

Hell, most of the male lecturers in Civil Engineering are pretty lax. Hell, the 2IC of the school tells everyone to call him Mario because he looks like Mario from Super Mario Bros.

Then again, it's pretty much a non-issue. Something casual/informal like asking a question, you really shouldn't need to insert the title. Formal stuff like having to deal with admin issues or emailing the dean of the school. Yeah, check their title.

/May or may not be attending that university.


http://pbfcomics.com/71/
 
2014-03-14 12:32:35 PM  
Your professors, adjuncts, instructors, and staff worked hard to get where they are, and it never hurt anyone's grade to acknowledge that.

If they, in any way, base their grading on that factor, they should be fired.
 
2014-03-14 12:36:42 PM  

Dafatone: serial_crusher: Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?

Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.

Though you're not being a dick like the previous poster, I'm going to be one and stick with:

lol.

Have you taught college?


I have trolled a fair share of left-leaning college professors in my day, so I know it when I see it.

Strangely one of my favorite professors was a libby lib women's rights advocate who went on frequent feminist rants but still did a damn good job teaching multivariable calculus.  I don't mind people having differing viewpoints from me, as long as they don't affect their work performance.

Vegan Intro to Philosophy teacher got the most of it from me, and he happened to be male.
 
2014-03-14 12:40:28 PM  

MythDragon: Donnchadha: MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too.


I never claimed other wise :)
It was like Bill Engvall said in the Blue Collar tour. "When I got up this morning, I didn't want to be jackass. You just pushed my jackass button." I started off very polite. Then he pushed my dick button.

/That didn't sound right...


You can instantly write off anyone who makes that correction in a social setting as a useless, heaving ego that isn't worth another breath.
 
2014-03-14 12:41:54 PM  
A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect
 
2014-03-14 12:52:47 PM  
"And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.
 
2014-03-14 12:55:18 PM  
I've seen PowerPoint used extremely poorly. I've seen addition used extremely poorly as well (e.g. X% of the sample were male, Y% had the disease, so (X+Y)% were male and/or had the disease). Finding examples of poor use doesn't mean that you should stop using either PowerPoint or addition.

Take another look. The author does not advocate the elimination of PowerPoint, or addition, or hammers, or any other potentially useful tool.  She recommends not misusing it.


This sort of piece doesn't call for "data,"

If the purpose of her piece was to entertain, then you're right, she doesn't need data (after all, I read "Cracked"). If the purpose was to inform, then she should have spent a couple of minutes on Google first.


Not an academic work or journalism, it's opinion and commentary.  Love "Cracked" too.
 
2014-03-14 12:55:38 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect


I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.
 
2014-03-14 12:58:46 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect


How many jobs has your friend 'quit' because he was 'too respectful'?

/I've never heard anyone say they were fired for doing something wrong.
 
2014-03-14 01:04:31 PM  
Sort of long CSB:

Seven years ago I was selling new cars, and I relied heavily on customer referrals to stay busy. I prided myself on being a respectful, easy-going guy who wasn't so much a sales person as much as a "consultant" to make sure folks got what they needed and understood everything about the vehicle they were buying. One weekend I helped a lady special order a Prius - her first brand new car. Six weeks later when it came in, I had a bottle of wine for her to take home with her car (rules against consuming alcohol within a car dealership - obvious reasons). She was elated and said she'd had such a great experience she would send her husband in to look at new trucks - he apparently needed one but didn't like dealing with sales-y guys so hadn't done anything. She told me his name - let's call him Henry - and had him give me a call. When he called, he said he was "Dr. So-and-So" at such and such vet clinic, and had odd hours, so could I accommodate. I called him at home the day before our appointment just to confirm, and greeted him by his first name.

He came in the next day, did not ask for me (I didn't know what he looked like), and bought a truck from the first salesman who greeted him. When I called him the next day to re-schedule (thinking he just skipped out), he told me he changed his mind about buying. I followed up with his wife about her Prius a few weeks later, and she said Henry loved his new truck. I was like WTF?! She said "Oh...you don't know...he's sort of a pr!ck about the "Doctor" thing, and was so upset you called him by his first name he decided he didn't want to deal with you. Sorry I didn't warn you."

Would have been nice to know up front that he was such an ass that even outside the context of his profession he insisted on people calling him Doctor. That's the kind of guy that turns out to be such a PIA you regret selling them the car anyway. Oh well.

/ end sort of long CSB
// still see that lady cruising her Prius around town
 
2014-03-14 01:06:33 PM  

chairmenmeow47: "And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.


Are dance instructors traditionally referred to as "miss" and "mister"?  Not being a jerk: if you have ever seen me dance, you'd know IMMEDIATELY that I've never seen the inside of a dance studio.
 
2014-03-14 01:07:21 PM  

vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.


That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.
 
2014-03-14 01:10:51 PM  

bralanko: Take another look. The author does not advocate the elimination of PowerPoint, or addition, or hammers, or any other potentially useful tool. She recommends not misusing it.


I disagree. Her slideshow is all about eliminating the use of PowerPoint until about halfway through, when she switches to giving (mostly bad) advice about how to improve slideshows.

Quotes are from her slideshow:

Digital slideshows are the scourge of higher education.
If she meant "bad digital slideshows" instead of "digital slideshows", she should have said so.

There is little else in the university landscape that is so immediately deleterious to the dissemination of knowledge.
Again, she's referring to the earlier statement that does not specify "bad" or "poorly constructed" slideshows.

The ostensible purpose of a slideshow is to provide illuminating visual aids or illustrate an important quote, rule, or formula. Only problem is this almost never happens.
Sure doesn't sound like she's highlighting a subset. Sounds like she's talking about the vast majority of slideshows.

Now, I generally forbid slide shows by students altogether.
This is not someone who thinks that people should learn to create better slideshows. This is someone who wants people to stop using them. If she wanted to teach people to make better slideshows, she would be doing so.
 
2014-03-14 01:16:03 PM  
I think there's a line that's getting blurred in the comments here.  In day to day, or even most professional settings, there's little to no reason to call someone a Dr.   People who get stuck on that are likely pricks.  The exception would be talking to a Med Dr at a hospital, there's an important reason to call him a Dr there.

But schools are very different.  Assuming you are at a good school then you are dealing with one of the top experts in the field they are teaching, and by top I mean best in the world (I can only speak to this in technical programs).   And they are there teaching undergrads the most elementary aspects of their fields.  I can't see a single reason to not show due respect to these people.   I've taken classes with Nobel Laureates, I sure as hell would not talk to them like I was a peer.
 
2014-03-14 01:24:52 PM  

vrax: Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect

I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.


Who the fark calls colleagues or coworkers "ma'am"?  Or sir?

It's disrespectful in how little attention it shows to the person.
 
2014-03-14 01:25:54 PM  

fireclown: vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.


Well, in the sense that you aren't used to hearing it, not "OMG, you've insulted my very being!"
 
2014-03-14 01:29:22 PM  

Danger Mouse: quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!

That's why we refer to some customs as refered to as"common courtesies"  Only in unique settings would concern over the silverware be an issue, but politely referering to someone by appropriate titles  is pretty much considered common, much like saying "please" and "thank you".


The only issue is how much you value other's opinions of you.  In an interview, it may very well be a good idea to play up the titles.  When your son's friends come over, referring to them as 'Master' - which is the proper way to refer to boys too young to be referred to as 'Mister' - is probably not necessary, because who gives a damn what they think about you?

Implying that because it's 'common' as in 'commonly accepted' is not a validation of these behaviors, nor justification for their existence - only for their occasional use.  They're arbitrary rules that serve no actual purpose other than to exhibit your mastery of a specific set of arbitrary rules.
 
2014-03-14 01:33:49 PM  
In what world is calling a kid "Master" common?  You can pull up all sorts of obscure courtesies, but calling them common courtesies is absurd.
 
2014-03-14 01:34:10 PM  
Have it your way, Professor Stick up the Butt.
 
2014-03-14 01:38:15 PM  

draypresct: quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!

Work the forks (and other silverware) from the outside in towards the plate, as the courses go on.

Knife and spoon go on the right-hand side, fork goes on the left-hand side. Most people use a knife in conjunction with the fork, so they go on opposite sides of the plate.

These sorts of manners don't matter in 99.999% of the situations you'll be in, but you should be able to simulate a proper gentleman long enough to avoid causing problems between your child and their pretentious parents-in-law-to-be at the wedding dinner.

/I agree that calling someone by their title doesn't matter in 99.999% of the situations.


Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.

Otherwise see my previous post for 'when to use manners'.  If you care what the other person thinks, go for it, otherwise tell them to get bent and chuckle.
 
2014-03-14 01:40:01 PM  

Dafatone: vrax: Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect

I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

Who the fark calls colleagues or coworkers "ma'am"?  Or sir?

It's disrespectful in how little attention it shows to the person.


I guess it depends on your familiarity.  To call it disrespectful seems to be trying really hard to be disrespected.

I'm from California, so it's not a term I hear or use all the time, but unless used in a sarcastic tone, I've never found there to be an honest claim of disrespect, and certainly not degradation, through its use.
 
2014-03-14 01:41:24 PM  
quietwalker:
/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.


i actually do this as a signal to get this damned plate out of my way so that i am closer to my beer

/to etiquette classes
 
2014-03-14 01:53:32 PM  

quietwalker: Otherwise see my previous post for 'when to use manners'. If you care what the other person thinks, go for it, otherwise tell them to get bent and chuckle.


Agreed.
 
2014-03-14 02:07:54 PM  

fireclown: chairmenmeow47: "And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.

Are dance instructors traditionally referred to as "miss" and "mister"?  Not being a jerk: if you have ever seen me dance, you'd know IMMEDIATELY that I've never seen the inside of a dance studio.


not in my experience.  although ballet teachers are usually the ones to have strict policies about how to address them.  but a big part of ballet is discipline.  i am glad i took it, but i was the worst in my class.
 
2014-03-14 02:22:08 PM  

August11: I really think Slate is just trolling us. I read half the article. At that point I realized that it was discussing a group of people who need therapy for what happened to them early in life.

When a student calls me "Mister," I do not correct the student because I am focused on his or her concern or idea or question. Maybe those teachers in the article would have a better position at university if they focused on the important things.

/professor
//tenured
///you can call me Steve if you like


Steve,
congratulations on being a tenured professor.

As a non-tenure track (overworked, underpaid) faculty member at a respectable state university, I'm calling you on your sassy, privilege-filled "if they were better teachers/researchers/people, they'd be in a secure position like me." It makes you sound like that Wall Street elite who argue that anyone could have become CEO or hedge fund manager and made multi-millions per year, but most people are lazy, ignorant, farks who just want to play video games and smoke crack and that why there's wealth inequality in the world. That attitude emboldens and facilitates the administrative legions who are taking over universities and reducing (even further!) the number of tenure-track positions available for the increasing numbers of hard-working, smart, hopeful grad students who succeed in completing a PhD and dare to dream of enjoying both job security and academic freedom.

Regards,
misanthropologist, Ph.D.
 
2014-03-14 02:29:07 PM  
There have been multiple studies that show that professors/instructors, over the past 20 years, have seen more "uncivil behavior" in the classroom.  I know in just five or six years that students have been openly disrespectful to their peers and have a generally blase attitude about following any rules.  A part of that is secondary ed and the bad habits they teach, of course, but more than a few times each semester, I have students who miss multiple classes, then suddenly appear with a list of things I should do for them to let them pass.  When I tell them that's not going to happen, let the emotions roll: anger, accusations, tears, "I can't believe you're doing this to me," etc.
 
2014-03-14 02:40:23 PM  

vrax: fireclown: vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.

Well, in the sense that you aren't used to hearing it, not "OMG, you've insulted my very being!"


Correct.  In a touching-the-back-of-your-head-feeling-for-a-bald-spot kind of way.
 
2014-03-14 03:01:54 PM  

quietwalker: Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.


Which is ironic, considering the Europeans invented the switch in the first place.  Specifically, it was invented by the French, a country full of people so obnoxious they'd probably use a word like 'gauche' in a Fark thread.
 
2014-03-14 04:07:16 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I really think Slate is just trolling us. I read half the article. At that point I realized that it was discussing a group of people who need therapy for what happened to them early in life.

When a student calls me "Mister," I do not correct the student because I am focused on his or her concern or idea or question. Maybe those teachers in the article would have a better position at university if they focused on the important things.

/professor
//tenured
///you can call me Steve if you like

Steve,
congratulations on being a tenured professor.

As a non-tenure track (overworked, underpaid) faculty member at a respectable state university, I'm calling you on your sassy, privilege-filled "if they were better teachers/researchers/people, they'd be in a secure position like me." It makes you sound like that Wall Street elite who argue that anyone could have become CEO or hedge fund manager and made multi-millions per year, but most people are lazy, ignorant, farks who just want to play video games and smoke crack and that why there's wealth inequality in the world. That attitude emboldens and facilitates the administrative legions who are taking over universities and reducing (even further!) the number of tenure-track positions available for the increasing numbers of hard-working, smart, hopeful grad students who succeed in completing a PhD and dare to dream of enjoying both job security and academic freedom.

Regards,
misanthropologist, Ph.D.


I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students.  And my students' learning is really all that matters.
 
2014-03-14 04:22:53 PM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "BobJoe."


FTFY

/All hail emperor Doofenschmirtz
 
2014-03-14 04:24:53 PM  

Lsherm: A few months ago I started a new job at a large university and I continually have to look up email signatures or titles in our directory to get things right, and it's almost absurd because I'm not anyone's student.  However, it did lead to an amusing exchange with one of my staff members who recently got his PhD.  We've been trying to get a 1,200 node grid off the ground and the research chair who is first in line to use it spends most of his days harassing the staff about when it's going to be set up.  My lead engineer, who I'll call Thomas, has been butting heads with the chair, who I'll call Dr. Richard Antsypants.

All three of us were in the data center last week troubleshooting.  I've been on a first name basis with Richard since the beginning and we're talking like we usually do.  Thomas is explaining that no one can submit jobs yet because the Qlogic cards aren't working correctly and he calls Dr. Antsypants 'Richard', at which point Richard says "I'm a doctor."  Without missing a beat, Thomas said "So am I, but it doesn't seem to help for this particular issue."

I waited for a pissing contest to break out, but Richard laughed and now everyone is on a first name basis.   Students should defer to their instructors, but outside of that relationship you have to be a real jerk to start throwing titles around.  I don't make people call me Director LSherm at work and Thomas sure as hell doesn't make anyone call him Dr. Thomas.  In a formal setting, like during first introductions?  Sure, the title is appropriate.  If you're going to be working with someone who isn't your student for an extended period of time?  Be reasonable.


Why?
 
2014-03-14 04:30:04 PM  

Lsherm: quietwalker: Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.

Which is ironic, considering the Europeans invented the switch in the first place.  Specifically, it was invented by the French, a country full of people so obnoxious they'd probably use a word like 'gauche' in a Fark thread.


Interesting article.  I did not know that's how it came to be.  I'm gratified to note that even the article writer accepts the fact that there was no reason behind it, and then mystified to see that they advocated a different, equally unjustified style on the spurious merit of artistic minimalism.

Also, I chose 'gauche' to parody the thought behind it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with using uncommon words.
 
2014-03-14 04:30:57 PM  
I encourage my students to use my first name. Still working on my PhD (wrapping up the Honours phase atm), but it will make zero difference. The label on my door and name tag/swipe cards will change. Some students still struggle, an fit can be cultural. One student always started emails with:
Dear Doctor Professor <$myname>

I want THAT as my title - especially the dear bit:)

I am an adjunct lecturer but my dean said drop the adjunct, hardly anyone uses it.

/hope I get a better photo for swipe card mind you - they buy the damn machines from passport photo installations, I swear...
 
2014-03-14 04:39:20 PM  
Forgive typos, its 7am and I have been up working on my thesis since 4.
/MOAR TEA!
 
2014-03-14 05:10:39 PM  

August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.


Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...
 
2014-03-14 05:13:12 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.

Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...


My theory is that there's an implicit buying into a pyramid structure that most people do.  Professors/lecturers/instructors/adjuncts/TAs/etc, let's call them teachers, are the most common position at in the college education system.  Since there are more of us than any other position, there's an assumption that we're at the bottom, and that we're less important, less necessary, and more replaceable than advisory or administrative positions.

It's ass-backwards.  And it's even worse in primary/secondary schooling than post-secondary.
 
2014-03-14 05:19:03 PM  

Somacandra: FTFA: I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Not a doctor or professor? Submitter failed reading comprehension. And what she says is very real. I have female colleagues complain that former students of mine in her classes will refer to me as Dr. _______ when talking to her and then casually address her by her first name when they damn well know that she is Dr. _______. I see it with my female colleagues and African-American colleagues of both genders all the time.

Different colleges have different cultures. I once taught at a small liberal arts college where students and professors were encouraged to be on a first name basis. I never liked it but I played ball. At the larger institutions, you walk in and tell them up front you are Dr. so and so or Prof. so and so. Any rank, whether Lecturer, Assistant, Associate or otherwise, is entitled to be addressed as "Professor" when s/he is the "Instructor of Record" and thus responsible for the class to the registrar and department.


When I was in grad school (geography/computer science), we all referred to our professors by their first name, male or female.  Mainly b/c they asked us to do so.  That said, any email communication I'd use "Dr" + "last name".  Same protocol was verbal when visitors came from outside the institution or we went to another institution.
 
2014-03-14 05:39:03 PM  
i.lvme.me
 
2014-03-14 05:59:56 PM  
Well since we are gonna get all formal up in here you can refer to me by my title "Your Royal Sex Machine"
 
2014-03-14 07:13:02 PM  

quietwalker: Also, I chose 'gauche' to parody the thought behind it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with using uncommon words.


Gauche isn't uncommon, it's just that it is almost always used by someone making an obnoxious comment about someone else they consider of lesser status.  That's how the word is supposed to be used, but you can almost guarantee the person that used it is trying to be a douche.
 
nbt
2014-03-14 07:23:07 PM  
I was a sessional instructor in my day.  As long as they DIDN'T call me professor or doctor I was cool.  They could call me Mr. nbt if they weren't comfortable with given names.  My authority was my knowledge of the subject, and if the students were learning and found the course well-administered I got respect.
 
2014-03-14 11:44:19 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.

Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...


I was at a meeting last week where the term "customer satisfaction" showed up on a powerpoint. Satisfaction? Ah because it is measurable.

It is hard to discuss these points without ranting. But you make a great point if I understand: this needs to be a co-investigation--students and faculty. If we consistently treat students as a tier and only a tier, then we relegate ourselves to that same system. And I am sure admins could think up dozens of tiers for us. Good talking with you.
 
2014-03-15 05:01:21 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


Funny, except there's only one "Bob".

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-15 05:04:25 AM  
I see  Guadior42 beat me to it. Nevertheless, let this be a lesson. The quotes are like his print halo.

Invoke his name and be damned! (If you haven't sent the money...)
 
Displayed 198 of 198 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report