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(Slate)   Today's first world problem is brought to you by a college instructor who is upset students call her by her first name because she isn't a professor or a doctor   (slate.com) divider line 198
    More: Dumbass, teachers, Flagler, Inside Higher Ed, Dead Poets Society, University of New South Wales, colleges, professors  
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6711 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-14 12:08:43 PM  
FTFA: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority).

"Translation: "I'm an uptight broad with an inferiority complex... but I don't wanna SOUND like that."
 
2014-03-14 12:21:29 PM  
I put Dr. Prof. Seelorq, Ph.D. on my syllabi. Students usually remember one of those titles.

California uber alles.
 
2014-03-14 12:26:21 PM  

bralanko: draypresct: bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.

She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.

Thanks for the tip re: posting links.  I think her article is clever and it made me smile.  This sort of piece doesn't call for "data," but the reason I liked it so much is that I've seen firsthand so many examples of precisely the type of PowerPoint abuse she cites.  You haven't, I guess?


I've seen PowerPoint used extremely poorly. I've seen addition used extremely poorly as well (e.g. X% of the sample were male, Y% had the disease, so (X+Y)% were male and/or had the disease). Finding examples of poor use doesn't mean that you should stop using either PowerPoint or addition.

Her presentation didn't address the problem she raised, and her tips for improving your presentations would actually make them much worse. Real communication has a bit of redundancy built in.

This sort of piece doesn't call for "data,"

If the purpose of her piece was to entertain, then you're right, she doesn't need data (after all, I read "Cracked"). If the purpose was to inform, then she should have spent a couple of minutes on Google first.
 
2014-03-14 12:28:03 PM  

eraser8: nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)".

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?

You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).


Ah yes, the Sweet Science.
 
2014-03-14 12:29:02 PM  

l0n3w0lf00: *checks that UNSW PhD woman's profile*

Well, she's teaching Asian History... I'm not too sure what she's expecting considering most of the people doing it are weaboo's just waiting for their requirement to study in *insert yellow fever flavour of the month country* so I'm not too sure what she's expecting. 
I guess it doesn't help that one of her books is titled "Modern Women in China and Japan: Gender, Feminism and Global Modernity Between the Wars " (We can see where this is going...)

Hell, most of the male lecturers in Civil Engineering are pretty lax. Hell, the 2IC of the school tells everyone to call him Mario because he looks like Mario from Super Mario Bros.

Then again, it's pretty much a non-issue. Something casual/informal like asking a question, you really shouldn't need to insert the title. Formal stuff like having to deal with admin issues or emailing the dean of the school. Yeah, check their title.

/May or may not be attending that university.


http://pbfcomics.com/71/
 
2014-03-14 12:32:35 PM  
Your professors, adjuncts, instructors, and staff worked hard to get where they are, and it never hurt anyone's grade to acknowledge that.

If they, in any way, base their grading on that factor, they should be fired.
 
2014-03-14 12:36:42 PM  

Dafatone: serial_crusher: Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?

Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.

Though you're not being a dick like the previous poster, I'm going to be one and stick with:

lol.

Have you taught college?


I have trolled a fair share of left-leaning college professors in my day, so I know it when I see it.

Strangely one of my favorite professors was a libby lib women's rights advocate who went on frequent feminist rants but still did a damn good job teaching multivariable calculus.  I don't mind people having differing viewpoints from me, as long as they don't affect their work performance.

Vegan Intro to Philosophy teacher got the most of it from me, and he happened to be male.
 
2014-03-14 12:40:28 PM  

MythDragon: Donnchadha: MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too.


I never claimed other wise :)
It was like Bill Engvall said in the Blue Collar tour. "When I got up this morning, I didn't want to be jackass. You just pushed my jackass button." I started off very polite. Then he pushed my dick button.

/That didn't sound right...


You can instantly write off anyone who makes that correction in a social setting as a useless, heaving ego that isn't worth another breath.
 
2014-03-14 12:41:54 PM  
A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect
 
2014-03-14 12:52:47 PM  
"And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.
 
2014-03-14 12:55:18 PM  
I've seen PowerPoint used extremely poorly. I've seen addition used extremely poorly as well (e.g. X% of the sample were male, Y% had the disease, so (X+Y)% were male and/or had the disease). Finding examples of poor use doesn't mean that you should stop using either PowerPoint or addition.

Take another look. The author does not advocate the elimination of PowerPoint, or addition, or hammers, or any other potentially useful tool.  She recommends not misusing it.


This sort of piece doesn't call for "data,"

If the purpose of her piece was to entertain, then you're right, she doesn't need data (after all, I read "Cracked"). If the purpose was to inform, then she should have spent a couple of minutes on Google first.


Not an academic work or journalism, it's opinion and commentary.  Love "Cracked" too.
 
2014-03-14 12:55:38 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect


I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.
 
2014-03-14 12:58:46 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect


How many jobs has your friend 'quit' because he was 'too respectful'?

/I've never heard anyone say they were fired for doing something wrong.
 
2014-03-14 01:04:31 PM  
Sort of long CSB:

Seven years ago I was selling new cars, and I relied heavily on customer referrals to stay busy. I prided myself on being a respectful, easy-going guy who wasn't so much a sales person as much as a "consultant" to make sure folks got what they needed and understood everything about the vehicle they were buying. One weekend I helped a lady special order a Prius - her first brand new car. Six weeks later when it came in, I had a bottle of wine for her to take home with her car (rules against consuming alcohol within a car dealership - obvious reasons). She was elated and said she'd had such a great experience she would send her husband in to look at new trucks - he apparently needed one but didn't like dealing with sales-y guys so hadn't done anything. She told me his name - let's call him Henry - and had him give me a call. When he called, he said he was "Dr. So-and-So" at such and such vet clinic, and had odd hours, so could I accommodate. I called him at home the day before our appointment just to confirm, and greeted him by his first name.

He came in the next day, did not ask for me (I didn't know what he looked like), and bought a truck from the first salesman who greeted him. When I called him the next day to re-schedule (thinking he just skipped out), he told me he changed his mind about buying. I followed up with his wife about her Prius a few weeks later, and she said Henry loved his new truck. I was like WTF?! She said "Oh...you don't know...he's sort of a pr!ck about the "Doctor" thing, and was so upset you called him by his first name he decided he didn't want to deal with you. Sorry I didn't warn you."

Would have been nice to know up front that he was such an ass that even outside the context of his profession he insisted on people calling him Doctor. That's the kind of guy that turns out to be such a PIA you regret selling them the car anyway. Oh well.

/ end sort of long CSB
// still see that lady cruising her Prius around town
 
2014-03-14 01:06:33 PM  

chairmenmeow47: "And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.


Are dance instructors traditionally referred to as "miss" and "mister"?  Not being a jerk: if you have ever seen me dance, you'd know IMMEDIATELY that I've never seen the inside of a dance studio.
 
2014-03-14 01:07:21 PM  

vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.


That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.
 
2014-03-14 01:10:51 PM  

bralanko: Take another look. The author does not advocate the elimination of PowerPoint, or addition, or hammers, or any other potentially useful tool. She recommends not misusing it.


I disagree. Her slideshow is all about eliminating the use of PowerPoint until about halfway through, when she switches to giving (mostly bad) advice about how to improve slideshows.

Quotes are from her slideshow:

Digital slideshows are the scourge of higher education.
If she meant "bad digital slideshows" instead of "digital slideshows", she should have said so.

There is little else in the university landscape that is so immediately deleterious to the dissemination of knowledge.
Again, she's referring to the earlier statement that does not specify "bad" or "poorly constructed" slideshows.

The ostensible purpose of a slideshow is to provide illuminating visual aids or illustrate an important quote, rule, or formula. Only problem is this almost never happens.
Sure doesn't sound like she's highlighting a subset. Sounds like she's talking about the vast majority of slideshows.

Now, I generally forbid slide shows by students altogether.
This is not someone who thinks that people should learn to create better slideshows. This is someone who wants people to stop using them. If she wanted to teach people to make better slideshows, she would be doing so.
 
2014-03-14 01:16:03 PM  
I think there's a line that's getting blurred in the comments here.  In day to day, or even most professional settings, there's little to no reason to call someone a Dr.   People who get stuck on that are likely pricks.  The exception would be talking to a Med Dr at a hospital, there's an important reason to call him a Dr there.

But schools are very different.  Assuming you are at a good school then you are dealing with one of the top experts in the field they are teaching, and by top I mean best in the world (I can only speak to this in technical programs).   And they are there teaching undergrads the most elementary aspects of their fields.  I can't see a single reason to not show due respect to these people.   I've taken classes with Nobel Laureates, I sure as hell would not talk to them like I was a peer.
 
2014-03-14 01:24:52 PM  

vrax: Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect

I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.


Who the fark calls colleagues or coworkers "ma'am"?  Or sir?

It's disrespectful in how little attention it shows to the person.
 
2014-03-14 01:25:54 PM  

fireclown: vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.


Well, in the sense that you aren't used to hearing it, not "OMG, you've insulted my very being!"
 
2014-03-14 01:29:22 PM  

Danger Mouse: quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!

That's why we refer to some customs as refered to as"common courtesies"  Only in unique settings would concern over the silverware be an issue, but politely referering to someone by appropriate titles  is pretty much considered common, much like saying "please" and "thank you".


The only issue is how much you value other's opinions of you.  In an interview, it may very well be a good idea to play up the titles.  When your son's friends come over, referring to them as 'Master' - which is the proper way to refer to boys too young to be referred to as 'Mister' - is probably not necessary, because who gives a damn what they think about you?

Implying that because it's 'common' as in 'commonly accepted' is not a validation of these behaviors, nor justification for their existence - only for their occasional use.  They're arbitrary rules that serve no actual purpose other than to exhibit your mastery of a specific set of arbitrary rules.
 
2014-03-14 01:33:49 PM  
In what world is calling a kid "Master" common?  You can pull up all sorts of obscure courtesies, but calling them common courtesies is absurd.
 
2014-03-14 01:34:10 PM  
Have it your way, Professor Stick up the Butt.
 
2014-03-14 01:38:15 PM  

draypresct: quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!

Work the forks (and other silverware) from the outside in towards the plate, as the courses go on.

Knife and spoon go on the right-hand side, fork goes on the left-hand side. Most people use a knife in conjunction with the fork, so they go on opposite sides of the plate.

These sorts of manners don't matter in 99.999% of the situations you'll be in, but you should be able to simulate a proper gentleman long enough to avoid causing problems between your child and their pretentious parents-in-law-to-be at the wedding dinner.

/I agree that calling someone by their title doesn't matter in 99.999% of the situations.


Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.

Otherwise see my previous post for 'when to use manners'.  If you care what the other person thinks, go for it, otherwise tell them to get bent and chuckle.
 
2014-03-14 01:40:01 PM  

Dafatone: vrax: Clemkadidlefark: A friend in California was invited to voluntarily quit his job as a highly qualified MRI Tech because - due his respectful upbringing - he insisted on the honorific Ma'am when addressing female patients and colleagues.

After numerous complaints that Ma'am was degrading to women it was suggested to him - by a woman - he'd be 'happier' elsewhere.

Biatches don't know nothin about respect

I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women".  "Oh, it makes me feel old!"  Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

Who the fark calls colleagues or coworkers "ma'am"?  Or sir?

It's disrespectful in how little attention it shows to the person.


I guess it depends on your familiarity.  To call it disrespectful seems to be trying really hard to be disrespected.

I'm from California, so it's not a term I hear or use all the time, but unless used in a sarcastic tone, I've never found there to be an honest claim of disrespect, and certainly not degradation, through its use.
 
2014-03-14 01:41:24 PM  
quietwalker:
/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.


i actually do this as a signal to get this damned plate out of my way so that i am closer to my beer

/to etiquette classes
 
2014-03-14 01:53:32 PM  

quietwalker: Otherwise see my previous post for 'when to use manners'. If you care what the other person thinks, go for it, otherwise tell them to get bent and chuckle.


Agreed.
 
2014-03-14 02:07:54 PM  

fireclown: chairmenmeow47: "And here's one for the ladies: If you ever get called "Miss," don't be afraid to tell them that if they're going to  , they'd best be ready to plié."

way to insult dance teachers.  cause they didn't work hard to get where they are either you snotty twat.

Are dance instructors traditionally referred to as "miss" and "mister"?  Not being a jerk: if you have ever seen me dance, you'd know IMMEDIATELY that I've never seen the inside of a dance studio.


not in my experience.  although ballet teachers are usually the ones to have strict policies about how to address them.  but a big part of ballet is discipline.  i am glad i took it, but i was the worst in my class.
 
2014-03-14 02:22:08 PM  

August11: I really think Slate is just trolling us. I read half the article. At that point I realized that it was discussing a group of people who need therapy for what happened to them early in life.

When a student calls me "Mister," I do not correct the student because I am focused on his or her concern or idea or question. Maybe those teachers in the article would have a better position at university if they focused on the important things.

/professor
//tenured
///you can call me Steve if you like


Steve,
congratulations on being a tenured professor.

As a non-tenure track (overworked, underpaid) faculty member at a respectable state university, I'm calling you on your sassy, privilege-filled "if they were better teachers/researchers/people, they'd be in a secure position like me." It makes you sound like that Wall Street elite who argue that anyone could have become CEO or hedge fund manager and made multi-millions per year, but most people are lazy, ignorant, farks who just want to play video games and smoke crack and that why there's wealth inequality in the world. That attitude emboldens and facilitates the administrative legions who are taking over universities and reducing (even further!) the number of tenure-track positions available for the increasing numbers of hard-working, smart, hopeful grad students who succeed in completing a PhD and dare to dream of enjoying both job security and academic freedom.

Regards,
misanthropologist, Ph.D.
 
2014-03-14 02:29:07 PM  
There have been multiple studies that show that professors/instructors, over the past 20 years, have seen more "uncivil behavior" in the classroom.  I know in just five or six years that students have been openly disrespectful to their peers and have a generally blase attitude about following any rules.  A part of that is secondary ed and the bad habits they teach, of course, but more than a few times each semester, I have students who miss multiple classes, then suddenly appear with a list of things I should do for them to let them pass.  When I tell them that's not going to happen, let the emotions roll: anger, accusations, tears, "I can't believe you're doing this to me," etc.
 
2014-03-14 02:40:23 PM  

vrax: fireclown: vrax: I'd love to hear the nonsense basis for their belief that it's "degrading to women". "Oh, it makes me feel old!" Yeah, and my dad is Mr. Vrax, but I know that people say it out of courtesy/respect, so I couldn't give a shiat.

That one works for guys too.  The first few "sirs" that you get hit you pretty hard.

Well, in the sense that you aren't used to hearing it, not "OMG, you've insulted my very being!"


Correct.  In a touching-the-back-of-your-head-feeling-for-a-bald-spot kind of way.
 
2014-03-14 03:01:54 PM  

quietwalker: Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.


Which is ironic, considering the Europeans invented the switch in the first place.  Specifically, it was invented by the French, a country full of people so obnoxious they'd probably use a word like 'gauche' in a Fark thread.
 
2014-03-14 04:07:16 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I really think Slate is just trolling us. I read half the article. At that point I realized that it was discussing a group of people who need therapy for what happened to them early in life.

When a student calls me "Mister," I do not correct the student because I am focused on his or her concern or idea or question. Maybe those teachers in the article would have a better position at university if they focused on the important things.

/professor
//tenured
///you can call me Steve if you like

Steve,
congratulations on being a tenured professor.

As a non-tenure track (overworked, underpaid) faculty member at a respectable state university, I'm calling you on your sassy, privilege-filled "if they were better teachers/researchers/people, they'd be in a secure position like me." It makes you sound like that Wall Street elite who argue that anyone could have become CEO or hedge fund manager and made multi-millions per year, but most people are lazy, ignorant, farks who just want to play video games and smoke crack and that why there's wealth inequality in the world. That attitude emboldens and facilitates the administrative legions who are taking over universities and reducing (even further!) the number of tenure-track positions available for the increasing numbers of hard-working, smart, hopeful grad students who succeed in completing a PhD and dare to dream of enjoying both job security and academic freedom.

Regards,
misanthropologist, Ph.D.


I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students.  And my students' learning is really all that matters.
 
2014-03-14 04:22:53 PM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "BobJoe."


FTFY

/All hail emperor Doofenschmirtz
 
2014-03-14 04:24:53 PM  

Lsherm: A few months ago I started a new job at a large university and I continually have to look up email signatures or titles in our directory to get things right, and it's almost absurd because I'm not anyone's student.  However, it did lead to an amusing exchange with one of my staff members who recently got his PhD.  We've been trying to get a 1,200 node grid off the ground and the research chair who is first in line to use it spends most of his days harassing the staff about when it's going to be set up.  My lead engineer, who I'll call Thomas, has been butting heads with the chair, who I'll call Dr. Richard Antsypants.

All three of us were in the data center last week troubleshooting.  I've been on a first name basis with Richard since the beginning and we're talking like we usually do.  Thomas is explaining that no one can submit jobs yet because the Qlogic cards aren't working correctly and he calls Dr. Antsypants 'Richard', at which point Richard says "I'm a doctor."  Without missing a beat, Thomas said "So am I, but it doesn't seem to help for this particular issue."

I waited for a pissing contest to break out, but Richard laughed and now everyone is on a first name basis.   Students should defer to their instructors, but outside of that relationship you have to be a real jerk to start throwing titles around.  I don't make people call me Director LSherm at work and Thomas sure as hell doesn't make anyone call him Dr. Thomas.  In a formal setting, like during first introductions?  Sure, the title is appropriate.  If you're going to be working with someone who isn't your student for an extended period of time?  Be reasonable.


Why?
 
2014-03-14 04:30:04 PM  

Lsherm: quietwalker: Don't forget that using your fork in your right hand is ... gauche, to say the least.  It's considered something of an American trait, indicative of a lack of education and grace.

Which is ironic, considering the Europeans invented the switch in the first place.  Specifically, it was invented by the French, a country full of people so obnoxious they'd probably use a word like 'gauche' in a Fark thread.


Interesting article.  I did not know that's how it came to be.  I'm gratified to note that even the article writer accepts the fact that there was no reason behind it, and then mystified to see that they advocated a different, equally unjustified style on the spurious merit of artistic minimalism.

Also, I chose 'gauche' to parody the thought behind it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with using uncommon words.
 
2014-03-14 04:30:57 PM  
I encourage my students to use my first name. Still working on my PhD (wrapping up the Honours phase atm), but it will make zero difference. The label on my door and name tag/swipe cards will change. Some students still struggle, an fit can be cultural. One student always started emails with:
Dear Doctor Professor <$myname>

I want THAT as my title - especially the dear bit:)

I am an adjunct lecturer but my dean said drop the adjunct, hardly anyone uses it.

/hope I get a better photo for swipe card mind you - they buy the damn machines from passport photo installations, I swear...
 
2014-03-14 04:39:20 PM  
Forgive typos, its 7am and I have been up working on my thesis since 4.
/MOAR TEA!
 
2014-03-14 05:10:39 PM  

August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.


Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...
 
2014-03-14 05:13:12 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.

Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...


My theory is that there's an implicit buying into a pyramid structure that most people do.  Professors/lecturers/instructors/adjuncts/TAs/etc, let's call them teachers, are the most common position at in the college education system.  Since there are more of us than any other position, there's an assumption that we're at the bottom, and that we're less important, less necessary, and more replaceable than advisory or administrative positions.

It's ass-backwards.  And it's even worse in primary/secondary schooling than post-secondary.
 
2014-03-14 05:19:03 PM  

Somacandra: FTFA: I myself feel rankled when someone who knows full well I have an earned doctorate refers to my male peers as "Professor" or "Doctor" yet calls me "Ms. Schuman." It happens all the time, and I often hear a sneer in the "izzzzz."

Not a doctor or professor? Submitter failed reading comprehension. And what she says is very real. I have female colleagues complain that former students of mine in her classes will refer to me as Dr. _______ when talking to her and then casually address her by her first name when they damn well know that she is Dr. _______. I see it with my female colleagues and African-American colleagues of both genders all the time.

Different colleges have different cultures. I once taught at a small liberal arts college where students and professors were encouraged to be on a first name basis. I never liked it but I played ball. At the larger institutions, you walk in and tell them up front you are Dr. so and so or Prof. so and so. Any rank, whether Lecturer, Assistant, Associate or otherwise, is entitled to be addressed as "Professor" when s/he is the "Instructor of Record" and thus responsible for the class to the registrar and department.


When I was in grad school (geography/computer science), we all referred to our professors by their first name, male or female.  Mainly b/c they asked us to do so.  That said, any email communication I'd use "Dr" + "last name".  Same protocol was verbal when visitors came from outside the institution or we went to another institution.
 
2014-03-14 05:39:03 PM  
i.lvme.me
 
2014-03-14 05:59:56 PM  
Well since we are gonna get all formal up in here you can refer to me by my title "Your Royal Sex Machine"
 
2014-03-14 07:13:02 PM  

quietwalker: Also, I chose 'gauche' to parody the thought behind it, though I don't think there's anything wrong with using uncommon words.


Gauche isn't uncommon, it's just that it is almost always used by someone making an obnoxious comment about someone else they consider of lesser status.  That's how the word is supposed to be used, but you can almost guarantee the person that used it is trying to be a douche.
 
nbt
2014-03-14 07:23:07 PM  
I was a sessional instructor in my day.  As long as they DIDN'T call me professor or doctor I was cool.  They could call me Mr. nbt if they weren't comfortable with given names.  My authority was my knowledge of the subject, and if the students were learning and found the course well-administered I got respect.
 
2014-03-14 11:44:19 PM  

misanthropologist: August11: I reread my comments and I must agree with you. It comes off just as you describe. I took aim at the article's medieval focus on what I see as a trivial part of our academic lives and our students' experience. And I missed. Instead, I corroborated the myth that those without security or status on our campuses are in their situation due to a particular personal flaw. And this is not the case. I rescind.

Let me try again. This attention to title on college or university campuses gets in the way of any promised learning. (I know universities are more about creating knowledge than transferring it, but universities do promise measures of teaching as well.) Poor professing on either campus confuses the authority of knowledge with professional authority. This confusion builds walls between those who know and those who do not yet know. My title pries open grants nicely but It does very little for my students. And my students' learning is really all that matters.

Well clarified, thank you. Now if we could get more students to realize that many of us faculty members feel that way, and get them to join us in reminding administrators and the public of this fundamental purpose of the university, we may have a chance at gaining some ground in the battle. As it stands, we're well down the path of education as a service, degrees as a commodity, and students as customers who, in good American style, are always right. Not to mention the increasingly widespread belief that post-secondary education is either a personal benefit or pre-job training (or both). But now I'm ranting...


I was at a meeting last week where the term "customer satisfaction" showed up on a powerpoint. Satisfaction? Ah because it is measurable.

It is hard to discuss these points without ranting. But you make a great point if I understand: this needs to be a co-investigation--students and faculty. If we consistently treat students as a tier and only a tier, then we relegate ourselves to that same system. And I am sure admins could think up dozens of tiers for us. Good talking with you.
 
2014-03-15 05:01:21 AM  

strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."


Funny, except there's only one "Bob".

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-15 05:04:25 AM  
I see  Guadior42 beat me to it. Nevertheless, let this be a lesson. The quotes are like his print halo.

Invoke his name and be damned! (If you haven't sent the money...)
 
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