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(Slate)   Today's first world problem is brought to you by a college instructor who is upset students call her by her first name because she isn't a professor or a doctor   (slate.com) divider line 198
    More: Dumbass, teachers, Flagler, Inside Higher Ed, Dead Poets Society, University of New South Wales, colleges, professors  
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6693 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 7:05 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-14 09:23:51 AM
I make everyone call me Maestro.
 
2014-03-14 09:27:38 AM

van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.


If you haven't done independent research, written it up in a thesis and defended it then you aren't a farking doctor, whatever your job title happens to be.

Coming next: tree surgeons.
 
2014-03-14 09:28:35 AM
I feel her pain. No matter how insistent I am, people refuse to call my be my title (Lord and Supreme Master of the Known Universe and Crusher of Souls Baconbeard).
 
2014-03-14 09:29:07 AM

All Latest: Wrong. It's a USA problem, because of their obsession with stupid titles and passive agressive "politeness". The rest of the world got rid of that crap several decades ago.


Japan lives and dies by proper educate which includes proper titles. Theirs are often in the form of their honorifics. There's a big difference between -san, -chan, and -sama, example. Sensei would be a catch-all for a person of respect. A physician, politician, or member of academia could all be called sensei. It's not uncommon for people to be referred to only by their respective title by their everyone who isn't a close friend.

Anyway,

This lady sounds like she assumed that being bestowed a title meant automatic respect and that the form of this respect will be showed by the title being used. She sounds like an authoritarian. She sounds like a "Boy, you call me sir" kind of person.

You can't force respect. It must be earned. The showing of this respect will come in many different ways from many different people. Not everyone will view the idea of calling someone by their full title as a form of respect. If you're students don't respect you then that wont change even if they are forced to call you doctor/professor/whatever.

Quick CSB. My ex's parents (mother, really, as she controlled the father) didn't want me to use their first names. She was the mr/ms (last name) type. She was also a manipulative, controlling, two faced, racist biatch. So I never used their first or last name. Ever. Out of spite. For more than half a decade I never initiated a conversation with either by using their name. I just started talking at them.

I, unfortunately, ran into them recently at a store. I just used their first names because I no longer have to worry about causing friction among that family anymore. Fark them.

/I only ever called my college professors Mr/Ms [last name] or by their first name. They preferred it that way.
 
2014-03-14 09:30:22 AM

Kirkenhegelstein: van1ty: If you aren't a medical doctor, you aren't a farking doctor.

Punkin', if they're medical doctors, they're just physicians who've adopted the pre-existing convention of referring to people who hold advanced degrees (PhD) as "Doctor."  Historically, physicians were "barbers" who got enamored of the titles the smart kids gave themselves and glommed on.

So if you are a medical doctor, you aren't a doctor.  You're a barber.


Wrong-o. It's surgeons who were originally barbers, which is why, in the UK, surgeons are always Ms, Mr, Mrs or Miss and never Dr.

PhD's, incidentally, are Johnny-come-lately degrees. Proper doctorates are the senior ones: DLitt, DMus, DD, DSc and so on.
 
2014-03-14 09:33:14 AM
Depends on where you live.

At UC Boulder, I was a grad student teaching a class, and I told my kids not to call me professor.  They all went with my first name, except one who called me professor dave just to annoy me (he was alright, though).

In South Dakota, I'm still a grad student.  Kids ALWAYS call me professor [last name].  Doesn't matter if I tell them not to or what.

Also, fark off, Will Miller (guy in the article).  Damn near anyone who has actually listened to women TAs or professors about their experience knows that it's much, much, MUCH easier to cultivate a "cool, casual, but still respected" attitude as a male instructor.

Nobody's ever come up to me at the end of the first day of class and told me how to do my job better, and frankly, sometimes they probably should.
 
2014-03-14 09:33:44 AM

zanni: I am a woman, I teach freshmen algebra.  I try to get my students to call me by my first name.  Most of my students are terrified of math and I want them to not be intimidated by me.  Most of them can't bring themselves to call me by my first name.


If they find it difficult, for whatever reason, to use your first name then insisting they use it will only add to their stress level. Is that really the result you want?
 
2014-03-14 09:40:36 AM
.Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?
 
2014-03-14 09:45:45 AM
 "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.
 
2014-03-14 09:48:27 AM
I never had a professor that had this issue. They were all PhD, long time, very experienced educators. They were all respected in their fields before they taught my classes. The only time we did not use titles was with the science class assistants who insisted we use their first names. No problem there because most of them were only 2 years ahead of us. This article writer seems overly sensitive for no reason other than possibly ego issues or lack of confidence. If either case is the issue, education should probably not be their first choice of employment in the first place.
 
2014-03-14 09:49:56 AM
I've found that if you'd call PhD's "Doctor", they tend to deliberately screw up your coffee order. (e.g. fat free soy milk instead of cream)
 
2014-03-14 09:55:05 AM

LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.


lol.

Have you taught college?
 
2014-03-14 09:57:08 AM
It's a matter of common courtesy and manners.
If you are in a business or professional setting (and that includes the classroom), don't use a person's first name until they invite you to do so.
 
2014-03-14 10:04:02 AM

nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)".

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?


You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).
 
2014-03-14 10:04:31 AM

Langdon_777: Pretty sure most of her students are over 18 and no one should call an adult anything but their first name.

Unless if they are in an inferior position to them, eg. military, etc.   I would never call my boss's by anything but their first name, I am not their servant.

She complains too much.


Why do you consider that if you don't call someone by thier first name, that you're thier servant?  If someone has a title, it's usually proper to address them by it unless they request you don't.  The use of Sir, Miss, Ma'am is just common courtesy.  I don't do it because I feel inferior to them. I do it because I try to be a gentleman.  I find it strange that  some people feel that showing common courtesy/respect for others is considered a sign of  inferiority?
 
2014-03-14 10:04:36 AM

Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?


Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.
 
2014-03-14 10:10:17 AM
I've worked with (and in) both fairly formal and pretty informal companies and academic settings. Based on my limited, biased sample of experiences:

If you have a new client (defined as "someone outside the firm who is or might be paying"), you address each other as you normally do, but address the client formally unless and until he/she indicates otherwise. You also dress formally when meeting a client, although the rules for this vary (e.g. ties can be a source of nosocomial infections; if the meeting is in a hospital, be aware that several hospitals are starting to discourage them).

If you work with Americans or Canadians, having a colleague insist on being addressed by their title is a red flag. Older, younger, several degrees (e.g. MD/Ph.D) or just one, it's pretty much the norm to address each other by the first name in a professional or research setting. We even leave off titles when putting our names on abstracts - every character counts.

Japanese and German researchers working in the US tend to ask to be addressed by their first names very early in the working relationship. Japanese (and to a lesser extent German) researchers working in their home countries tend to be a bit more formal.

The only times I've felt the need to be formal with a teacher is when the teacher is very young and inexperienced. I believe it's a good idea to address these teachers formally unless and until they feel comfortable enough to indicate otherwise. This applies to any class, not just classes in a formal academic setting (the martial arts school I attended would make students lead classes as a part of the black belt training; the older students/black belts would set the example by suddenly becoming more formal). Older, more experienced teachers will find ways to verbally shut you down if you're actually being disrespectful.

I agree with a lot of the Farkers in this thread that a young, inexperienced teacher who insists on formal address is being more clueless than they should about how their actions affect how they're perceived. I cannot imagine one of those students, after they go on to work in industry, recommending that their company hire this teacher as a consultant, for example.

/Yes, a wall of text, sorry.
 
2014-03-14 10:11:08 AM
CtrlAltDestroy


....
You can't force respect. It must be earned.  .


Usually I think just the opposite, that respects is autmaticaly given until some one does something to the countrary.,

/well not here on FARK of course...
 
2014-03-14 10:13:26 AM

2 grams: Animatronik: Any teacher with a PhD. should be addressed as Dr by students. If you have a Ph.D. and work in a regular job, expect to be Mr. or Ms.

I work with a lot of highly educated scientists and PHD's from one of the most repesected engineering institutes in the world.  Some get pretty frickin uppity if you don't call them "Doctor".    Yes, they suck.  But we are not here as equals. They are heading up some pretty big projects and I'm just on the team.

Typically   with superiors I address them as "sir" when in a group, in private discussion  I call them by thier first name.  It's actaully all about respect which comes through in your tone and demanour.  But we're pretty formal around here.


The big shot is in place "heading up the team" because academic politics. You're a degreed student just "part of the team" let me guess, making, oh, $20K to $25K/yr for the privelige LOL. Yes, definitely keep sucking dick while you're there (then get a real, well paying job in the real world).

Academic politics make me sick.
 
2014-03-14 10:16:12 AM

Danger Mouse: Langdon_777: Pretty sure most of her students are over 18 and no one should call an adult anything but their first name.

Unless if they are in an inferior position to them, eg. military, etc.   I would never call my boss's by anything but their first name, I am not their servant.

She complains too much.

Why do you consider that if you don't call someone by thier first name, that you're thier servant?  If someone has a title, it's usually proper to address them by it unless they request you don't.  The use of Sir, Miss, Ma'am is just common courtesy.  I don't do it because I feel inferior to them. I do it because I try to be a gentleman.  I find it strange that  some people feel that showing common courtesy/respect for others is considered a sign of  inferiority?


I actually just read some websites addressing proper address etiquette in the modern, technical world and the old sir/madam at the top of professional correspondence is apparently now considered antiquated to the point of an insult. Apparently, people believe they are being called "old" or something similar to an unnecessary cog in the process with these addresses. Calling people with titles like "Mr./Mrs./Miss" is also considered insulting in the modern world, because we are not treating them like individuals. Only medical doctors and college professors apparently get to use a title, because we don't use titles with our lawyers either. What used to pass for common courtesy is now a display of superiority or dismissive, apparently. I find it very confusing compared to the way I was brought up where everyone got that extra level of respect, however I guess it's not much of an issue for most people today.
 
2014-03-14 10:17:03 AM

nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?


It seems like law has a lot of funny titles, and I'm not an expert, so don't take my word for it.

My impression was that the JD is a primary degree. The LLM is a secondary degree that entails specific focus in a particular area of law, and is more of a professional master's degree. I think an LLM is enough to teach at most law schools with a proven track record in practice, but AFAIK law school faculties tend to be a little more "practice-driven" in general. The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD, though the JSD/SJD appears to be more common than the JD/PhD. Both of those terminal degrees are academic research degrees, that usually require original contributions and a dissertation-equivalent body of work.
 
2014-03-14 10:21:58 AM

Animatronik: Look if you have a Ph.D. related to your job then at work your title is Dr. Xxxxxx. Which is for formal communications, such as between student and teacher.

People in this thread who think that's pretentious will call all PhDs something else. That's Ok but it could also instantly identify you as someone who has a chip on their shoulder about degrees.


Depends.
In Ireland, everyone is referred to by their first name, with a few exceptions (or it's fairer to say, in my experience), and that's not impolite*. Those exceptions being teachers in Primary and Secondary school, top level government ministers and my GP. Also, I don't work in a higher level academic institution.
In my line of work, construction, it's first names. That goes for my bosses too.

Even with my GP I feel uncomfortable not calling him by his name, like I'm being rude or dismissive.

*The southern US thing of "Sir" and "Ma'am" seems a bit alien, in particular for your S.O's parents. Do you wait for permission to call them by their given name or what?

/Not sure if a northern US thing too
//Definitely not criticizing, it's just a different way of doing things.
///"Mr. Prime Minister...............ANDY!"
 
2014-03-14 10:25:00 AM

eraser8: You're both wrong.  The terminal degree in law, at least in the US, is the JSD (Doctor of Juridical Science).


You're right. I happen to know a JD/PhD... I didn't know he was an odd bird.

It looks like JD/PhD more commonly refers to a JD coupled with a PhD in an area outside law, for people who want to focus on the law and the technical details of a separate field (e.g. if you want to craft technology law and actually understand the physical actions taking place inside computers).
 
2014-03-14 10:26:14 AM

Fubini: The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD


I'm not aware of any law school that awards a PhD, as such.  Every JD/PhD program that I know of requires separate admission to the law school and to a PhD granting graduate school at the University.

For example, let's say you're in the Stanford JD/PhD program.  That means that you've been accepted, separately, to both the law school and to a doctoral program in the, say, the School of Humanities and Sciences.
 
2014-03-14 10:27:59 AM

Fubini: It looks like JD/PhD more commonly refers to a JD coupled with a PhD in an area outside law


Yep.  And, now my reply to you looks completely unnecessary.  So, please disregard.
 
2014-03-14 10:28:01 AM

Fubini: nmathew01: .Fubini:
The Juris Doctorate is a similar situation to the MD. The JD is a professional degree that really ought to be a bachelor's degree. Instead, they award the JD as a primary degree, and if people want to go further in the field they can obtain a JD/PhD, which also translates to the extremely tortured "Doctor of Law and of Philosophy (of Law)". 

What the? I thought the effective terminal degree for someone with a JD was an LLM (Master's of Law). Or is that only for the people who actually produce a work product? A VERY brief look at my wife's laws school had zero JD/PhD on faculty. Seriously, is that a thing?

It seems like law has a lot of funny titles, and I'm not an expert, so don't take my word for it.

My impression was that the JD is a primary degree. The LLM is a secondary degree that entails specific focus in a particular area of law, and is more of a professional master's degree. I think an LLM is enough to teach at most law schools with a proven track record in practice, but AFAIK law school faculties tend to be a little more "practice-driven" in general. The terminal degrees in law in the US are a JSD or a JD/PhD, though the JSD/SJD appears to be more common than the JD/PhD. Both of those terminal degrees are academic research degrees, that usually require original contributions and a dissertation-equivalent body of work.


Per Wikipedia, Doctor of Laws (LLD) is the terminal honorary degree in the U.S. (I don't know anyone with that degree, so I'll just stick with the wiki reference.)
 
2014-03-14 10:28:12 AM
I think that in honor of this thread, I shall make people call me "Fireclown, MBA" for the rest of the morning.
 
2014-03-14 10:30:18 AM
When I was doing my post-doctoral work in molecular biology, my boss who was a star researcher and cross appointed to the university was once introduced by his then 10 year old son thusly: "My dad's a doctor...but not the kind that helps people".
Funny at the time, especially as his specialty was molecular therapeutics.
 
2014-03-14 10:33:22 AM
Who in the world would refer to a professor by their first name?  That's absurd.   It's "Prof. Soandso", or in some cases, its just "Soandso" (usually when I was angry, like "Soandso's test really screwed me").   I never use the first name.

It's the same reason I would call my friends parents Mr and Mrs Whatshisname when I was young.  Now that I am older its a bit more confusing, but I still usually just default with the Mr/Mrs.   Its also why I get rankled when a salesman calls me by my first name.   You don't know me.   You call me Mr. Uptight.

But anyways, its just common decorum.  There's nothing really clever or rebellious about ignoring it, its just ignorant and disrespectful.   That said feel free to call your TA's whatever you want, and try and get drunk with them if you can
 
2014-03-14 10:36:22 AM

pkellmey: Per Wikipedia, Doctor of Laws (LLD) is the terminal honorary degree in the U.S. (I don't know anyone with that degree, so I'll just stick with the wiki reference.)


When Wikipedia says that the LLD is only awarded as an honorary degree, they're giving you the giant hint that it isn't the terminal law degree in the United States.  Wikipedia cites the correct terminal degree just a couple of entries above LLD.  It's the JSD.
 
2014-03-14 10:36:23 AM
My photography teacher, who was in her earl 30's (and from the north east) got on to me for saying ma'am and Ms.

I apologized, but assured her my Grandmother would find out if I disrespected a woman. And my severe beating would be on her head.
 
2014-03-14 10:37:39 AM

Necronic: Who in the world would refer to a professor by their first name?  That's absurd.   It's "Prof. Soandso", or in some cases, its just "Soandso" (usually when I was angry, like "Soandso's test really screwed me").   I never use the first name.

It's the same reason I would call my friends parents Mr and Mrs Whatshisname when I was young.  Now that I am older its a bit more confusing, but I still usually just default with the Mr/Mrs.   Its also why I get rankled when a salesman calls me by my first name.   You don't know me.   You call me Mr. Uptight.

But anyways, its just common decorum.  There's nothing really clever or rebellious about ignoring it, its just ignorant and disrespectful.   That said feel free to call your TA's whatever you want, and try and get drunk with them if you can


You are welcome to come onto my lawn.
 
2014-03-14 10:47:54 AM

Ricardo Klement: "Do me a favor, could you say 'professor' instead of 'ma'am?' It's just a thing, I worked so hard to get that title, so I'd appreciate it, yes, thank you."


Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.
 
2014-03-14 10:51:53 AM
Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!
 
2014-03-14 10:54:28 AM

MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.


He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too
 
2014-03-14 10:58:32 AM

quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!


That's why we refer to some customs as refered to as"common courtesies"  Only in unique settings would concern over the silverware be an issue, but politely referering to someone by appropriate titles  is pretty much considered common, much like saying "please" and "thank you".
 
2014-03-14 11:17:23 AM
Donnchadha: MythDragon: Me: So...you like...heal paintings?Ass: ...No. I study them.Me: And I should call you doctor because...?Ass: I earned it.Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.Ass: You're not in uniform.Me: Neither are you.Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too


The conversation passed the point of no return on the asshole front when someone insisted on being addressed by their academic title in a social setting*. I don't even see a way to withdraw from the conversation that early in a classy way without outside help.

I also thought it was kind of funny, but that's beside the point.

/*It's no more appropriate than a high-level martial artist insisting on being addressed as "master" everywhere he/she goes.
 
2014-03-14 11:17:47 AM
Where I teach, the custom is that the folks standing in front of the classroom are called "Professor" by the undergrad students, especially in the larger classes.  Well, they actually call me "pruhfessuh", what with the accent and all.  I've told them they can call me by my first name (I'm an ABD grad student), but most don't.  [shrug]

The foreign students tend to be quite formal - I've received emails addressed to "Most esteemed professor" and the like.  It's actually embarrassing. I feel like I'm reading email for someone else.
 
2014-03-14 11:27:28 AM

quietwalker: Calling someone by their correct title is exactly as important as making sure you properly differentiate between the salad, fish, and main course forks at a meal, and for exactly the same reasons.

Perhaps it's time to stop worrying about arbitrary social trends that somehow became enshrined as 'proper manners'.  It's all just pretentious dribble in an attempt to get people to think some people are better than others because they can follow a meaningless set of rules.

/ Don't forget - when you're done with a meal, knife and fork together with their handles on the lower right side of the plate.
// You're not some uncivilized barbarian, are you?!?
/// Blade pointing in, tines down!


Work the forks (and other silverware) from the outside in towards the plate, as the courses go on.

Knife and spoon go on the right-hand side, fork goes on the left-hand side. Most people use a knife in conjunction with the fork, so they go on opposite sides of the plate.

These sorts of manners don't matter in 99.999% of the situations you'll be in, but you should be able to simulate a proper gentleman long enough to avoid causing problems between your child and their pretentious parents-in-law-to-be at the wedding dinner.

/I agree that calling someone by their title doesn't matter in 99.999% of the situations.
 
2014-03-14 11:29:05 AM
Lot of conjecture here about the author's possible self esteem/entitlement/personality issues, and I don't know about that, nor care.  I was a master's-level adjunct in a grad program for a number of years, and I personally asked students to call me by my first name, but that's me; I can sort of see some of her point about the importance of the title.

That said, I consider this article a bit of a misfire from an otherwise very talented writer, and I am a fan of the other articles she's written for Slate.  Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.
 
2014-03-14 11:32:52 AM

bralanko: Lot of conjecture here about the author's possible self esteem/entitlement/personality issues, and I don't know about that, nor care.  I was a master's-level adjunct in a grad program for a number of years, and I personally asked students to call me by my first name, but that's me; I can sort of see some of her point about the importance of the title.

That said, I consider this article a bit of a misfire from an otherwise very talented writer, and I am a fan of the other articles she's written for Slate.  Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.


Find the web page, then highlight a few words of your post, then click the chain-like button in the upper right-hand area of the comment window you type your post in. Copy the link into that pop-up window.
 
2014-03-14 11:39:37 AM

bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.


She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.
 
2014-03-14 11:49:13 AM

draypresct: Donnchadha: MythDragon: Me: So...you like...heal paintings?Ass: ...No. I study them.Me: And I should call you doctor because...?Ass: I earned it.Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.Ass: You're not in uniform.Me: Neither are you.Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too

The conversation passed the point of no return on the asshole front when someone insisted on being addressed by their academic title in a social setting*. I don't even see a way to withdraw from the conversation that early in a classy way without outside help.

I also thought it was kind of funny, but that's beside the point.

/*It's no more appropriate than a high-level martial artist insisting on being addressed as "master" everywhere he/she goes.


When someone says

Nice to meet you Mr Smith,
Actually it's Doctor
Oh, Nice to meet you Doctor Smith, (note you don't first say "oh, you a surgeon or sumptin?")


Carry on a polite coversation, maybe even ask in what field he is in but   make a mental note that your dealing with a dick,  and exit quiickly.

Unless he's a medical doctor, then say "hey doc, can you take a look a this? -drop you pants- Does this look infected to you?"
 
2014-03-14 11:52:31 AM

UNC_Samurai: strangeluck: I have an idea, from now on, let's just call everyone "Bob."

Regardless of your name, rank, position, gender, etc. Your name is now "Bob."

Mind if we call you "Bruce" to keep it clear?


i2.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-14 11:57:05 AM
I grew up in an academic family.  As Somacandra mentioned, all instructors in higher education regardless of rank may be addressed as Professor, regardless of their job title.

The article references the Mr and Ms custom at the University of Virginia, but I am also familiar with the University of Chicago's longstanding tradition of addressing doctorate-holding faculty as Professor.  This is somewhat equalizing, insomuch as getting to teach at U of C ipso facto means you are qualified to do so, even if you are doing so on an MA - or if your field is one in which the doctorate is not commonplace such as fine arts (as the article mentioned) or library science (in which I hold a degree, though I work outside the profession right now).

I taught accounting one semester before I transferred over to doing graduate work in history instead - I asked my students to address me as Mr. Lastname (I was technically a part-time instructor, but I conceptualized the arrangement as a de-facto overload on my graduate research assistantship, and that was the norm for graduate assistants at that school).  Some called me Professor anyhow, and that was fine, since I was the instructor.


(Disclaimer: my wife is an employee of an institution named above)
 
2014-03-14 11:57:24 AM
I'm male and have a doctorate, and can count on one hand the number of times I've been called "Doctor" without it being a part of friends' snark.
 
2014-03-14 11:59:01 AM

Donnchadha: MythDragon: Met someone at some Christmas party where I didn't know anyone

Me: Hi, Mr Lastname. Nice to meet you.
Ass: Actualy it's 'Doctor'
Me: Are you in internal medicine or surgery?
Ass: I'm not that kind of doctor. I am a doctor of arts.
Me: So...you like...heal paintings?
Ass: ...No. I study them.
Me: And I should call you doctor because...?
Ass: I earned it.
Me:Yeah? Well, tell you what. As soon as you start calling me Staff Sergeant, I'll call you by your title.
Ass: You're not in uniform.
Me: Neither are you.

Then it was time to find a drink.

He might have been a pretentious asshole, but you were being a dick too.



I never claimed other wise :)
It was like Bill Engvall said in the Blue Collar tour. "When I got up this morning, I didn't want to be jackass. You just pushed my jackass button." I started off very polite. Then he pushed my dick button.

/That didn't sound right...
 
2014-03-14 12:00:49 PM
One thing's for sure: with this article, she's pretty much guaranteed to never be called "Doctor" or "Professor" by anyone ever again.
 
2014-03-14 12:03:45 PM

draypresct: bralanko: Check out the recent one about the use of PowerPoint in college classrooms (sorry I don't know how to link to it), which is clever, humorous, and right on target.

She tries to show that a tool is bad by mis-using the tool. She supports her opinions with no data. It's as clever and on-target as someone who insists that hammers are bad by deliberately hammering their own thumb again and again.

Her insisting that the slides should not make sense is particularly ludicrous. I shouldn't label the axes on my graph because I'll mention them during my presentation? That makes my talk a way to punish people for spending a few seconds thinking about what I'm saying, not a way to communicate.


Thanks for the tip re: posting links.  I think her article is clever and it made me smile.  This sort of piece doesn't call for "data," but the reason I liked it so much is that I've seen firsthand so many examples of precisely the type of PowerPoint abuse she cites.  You haven't, I guess?
 
2014-03-14 12:06:03 PM

serial_crusher: Dafatone: LemSkroob: "It's hard not to come off as uptight, and some students seem genuinely surprised. Other times it's clearly an attempt to rile me with some disrespect (typically coming from male students who like to undermine female authority)."

Oh jesus christ. Its 2014. I doubt very much you get many males at college age that have a problem with women in charge (especially a teacher, since they've likely had female teachers since first grade).

Stop looking for oppression that doesn't exist and try to not make yourself out the victim all the time. You only hurt your cause.

lol.

Have you taught college?

Dollars to donuts these guys are trolling her about her title because they're sick of hearing her waste class time complaining about it.  They're erroneously hoping that she'll get over it if they egg her on enough.  Has nothing to do with her gender and everything to do with her being a whiner.


Though you're not being a dick like the previous poster, I'm going to be one and stick with:

lol.

Have you taught college?
 
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