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(Mediaite)   Pulled over while being a 70 year old man who uses a cane? You better believe that's a shootin'   (mediaite.com) divider line 105
    More: Asinine, arrests, canes, shotguns, mistakes  
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6248 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2014 at 7:35 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-14 10:08:37 AM  

Shotgun Justice: Maybe if he had told him to to stop or freeze or give some indication besides "Whoa" that he thought that the cane was a gun, I would have some sympathy for the dumbass.


On top of that the asshole driver got out of the car.

NEVER get out of the car.  I've been pulled over many times, and you DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR.  It's the absolute best way to get shot.  Put the drivers window down, turn off the car, and put your hands on the wheel.  If it's dark, turn on the interior lights.

That's free advice.
 
2014-03-14 10:09:25 AM  

lizyrd: "what he did was understandable" is more in line


After watching the video, ^this.
 
2014-03-14 10:14:09 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Shotgun Justice: Maybe if he had told him to to stop or freeze or give some indication besides "Whoa" that he thought that the cane was a gun, I would have some sympathy for the dumbass.

On top of that the asshole driver got out of the car.

NEVER get out of the car.  I've been pulled over many times, and you DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR.  It's the absolute best way to get shot.  Put the drivers window down, turn off the car, and put your hands on the wheel.  If it's dark, turn on the interior lights.

That's free advice.


I'm not that old and even I remember when it was fine to get out of the car, it's possible this guy hasn't been pulled over in 30+ years or more, somehow people managed to not die  in a hail of police gun fire when that was customary and that was actually when crime rates were higher.
 
2014-03-14 10:15:38 AM  

lizyrd: I'd say "did the right thing" is a stretch, "what he did was understandable" is more in line. I think the old man did all the wrong things: opening his door without being prompted, exiting the vehicle, ignoring/not hearing the officer, reaching back into his truck for his cane while still ignoring/not hearing, and then turning with the cane elevated.


The old man is an untrained citizen. The police officer is supposed to be a trained professional.
The trained professional completely lost it at a perceived threat.
He's fortunate that it was just a cane and not a shotgun, otherwise he'd probably be dead.
 
2014-03-14 10:15:47 AM  

MassAsster: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

/Love me some irrational Fark "Cop hate threads..."

This..

DO   NOT   GET   OUT   OF   THE  DAMN  CAR....

Please, if you take anything away from this thread,  PLEASE STAY IN YOUR CAR.

1) It's not safe for you to be wondering in traffic
2) It's not taken as a sign of being friendly

We walk and play in traffic daily, you do not..
We position our car for our safety and yours, but that doesn't mean a drunk and/or stupid person isn't going to some how hit either car anyway...


THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMCfxezdfE   is drilled into every officers head...


If it's so dangerous why are the fine mostly around $160?

I would never risk a life over $160.

/$160
 
2014-03-14 10:19:28 AM  

Headso: Marcus Aurelius: Shotgun Justice: Maybe if he had told him to to stop or freeze or give some indication besides "Whoa" that he thought that the cane was a gun, I would have some sympathy for the dumbass.

On top of that the asshole driver got out of the car.

NEVER get out of the car.  I've been pulled over many times, and you DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR.  It's the absolute best way to get shot.  Put the drivers window down, turn off the car, and put your hands on the wheel.  If it's dark, turn on the interior lights.

That's free advice.

I'm not that old and even I remember when it was fine to get out of the car, it's possible this guy hasn't been pulled over in 30+ years or more, somehow people managed to not die  in a hail of police gun fire when that was customary and that was actually when crime rates were higher.


enough officers where shot/assaulted to where things changed. fbi statistcs changed lots of practices
 
2014-03-14 10:24:48 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: MassAsster: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

/Love me some irrational Fark "Cop hate threads..."

This..

DO   NOT   GET   OUT   OF   THE  DAMN  CAR....

Please, if you take anything away from this thread,  PLEASE STAY IN YOUR CAR.

1) It's not safe for you to be wondering in traffic
2) It's not taken as a sign of being friendly

We walk and play in traffic daily, you do not..
We position our car for our safety and yours, but that doesn't mean a drunk and/or stupid person isn't going to some how hit either car anyway...


THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMCfxezdfE   is drilled into every officers head...

If it's so dangerous why are the fine mostly around $160?

I would never risk a life over $160.

/$160


because money! beats me why things cost what they do, its usually set by the state, and the state likes money..but not enough to cause outrage or enough to make you go "i'm fighting this" .
 
2014-03-14 10:28:04 AM  

MassAsster: THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMCfxezdfE is drilled into every officers head...


But not the possibility that some people, when stopped, will get out of their car and that they're not all murderous villains.

Always err on the side of violence.
 
2014-03-14 10:40:44 AM  

Ilmarinen: MassAsster: THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMCfxezdfE is drilled into every officers head...

But not the possibility that some people, when stopped, will get out of their car and that they're not all murderous villains.

Always err on the side of violence.


More like, always err on the side where you go home to your family...

It's a job of "plan for the worst, and thank god when it's not".  It sucks, but that's how it has to be. When you get lazy, complacent, or make any assumptions, that's when shyt goes bad.  It's not that everyone you stop or encounter is a bad person wanting to do you harm, It's that everyone you encounter has that potential to be.
 
2014-03-14 10:45:00 AM  

lizyrd: I'd say "did the right thing" is a stretch, "what he did was understandable" is more in line. I think the old man did all the wrong things: opening his door without being prompted, exiting the vehicle, ignoring/not hearing the officer, reaching back into his truck for his cane while still ignoring/not hearing, and then turning with the cane elevated.


Agreed. I came here to jump in on the cop hate, but if you watch the video the cop had no choice. No reasonable person could have interpreted the old man's actions in any other way. I would have shot him too. The only thing the cop did wrong was miss so many times.
 The old guy did EVERYTHING wrong, and just wouldn't stop compounding it. Getting out of a car when stopped is not smart, nor is ignoring all warnings to get back inside. Thats one thing, but it takes a real moron to think reaching back into the truck to get a long shiny metal item off the trucks gun rack while doing it was a good idea. Holy shiat that guy was stupid.
 
2014-03-14 10:55:15 AM  
The other cop keeps telling him, "you did what you had to do brother, dont worry about it".   I would say that no, he didn't do what he had to do...  And he was crying because he knows he farked up...    If a citizen did the same thing the cops and prosecutor would nail them to the wall, so I see no reason why they shouldn't nail this cops ass to the wall.
 
2014-03-14 10:58:10 AM  

MassAsster: Headso: Marcus Aurelius: Shotgun Justice: Maybe if he had told him to to stop or freeze or give some indication besides "Whoa" that he thought that the cane was a gun, I would have some sympathy for the dumbass.

On top of that the asshole driver got out of the car.

NEVER get out of the car.  I've been pulled over many times, and you DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR.  It's the absolute best way to get shot.  Put the drivers window down, turn off the car, and put your hands on the wheel.  If it's dark, turn on the interior lights.

That's free advice.

I'm not that old and even I remember when it was fine to get out of the car, it's possible this guy hasn't been pulled over in 30+ years or more, somehow people managed to not die  in a hail of police gun fire when that was customary and that was actually when crime rates were higher.

enough officers where shot/assaulted to where things changed. fbi statistcs changed lots of practices


so now it's innocent people being shot and assaulted by trigger happy police instead...
 
2014-03-14 11:02:20 AM  
Good thing he didn't have a walker. Dumb cop would of thought it was a cannon.
 
2014-03-14 11:27:15 AM  
I'm curious how much of this is just kneejerk hate. I have a strong distaste of police, was raised to never trust them and never approach them unless I needed to(just being near them makes me uncomfortable), but watching the video I find the cops actions totally reasonable. The civvy farked up hard, and did all the stupidest things. When the officer realised it wasn't a weapon, he went running to  help the man he just shot, but the damn cane was pointed directly at the cop, and in that lighting it did look like a weapon. So yea, the officer made a mistake, but its a human mistake, and when he farked up he did what he could to rectify it. Any asshole cope would of probably just called EMT and then left him there to suffer.
 
2014-03-14 11:28:24 AM  

LavenderWolf: "did the right thing."

Yep, anything in the name of officer safety, including shooting at innocent people.

Cops: Cowards to the core.


Better to be Apples to the core

/♫ Apples together, Apples for-ever!♪
 
2014-03-14 11:29:25 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-14 11:32:45 AM  

jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.


Well, which is it?
 
2014-03-14 11:36:15 AM  

Wyalt Derp: Well, which is it?


it's doubleplusgood, breh...
 
2014-03-14 11:38:37 AM  
and I hollered somebody fade me
but the passengers all knew right from wrong
 
2014-03-14 11:41:19 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: jpo2269: I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior

We were smart enough to choose a profession where we don't get shot at much, which actually makes us mentally superior, as opposed to morally superior.


Bullchit!

Absolute BULLCHIT!

YOU are responsible for your actions. Put yourself in the line of fire, the onus is on YOU!
 
2014-03-14 11:42:16 AM  

Wyalt Derp: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

Well, which is it?


The cop mistook the cane for a firearm.

However, in light of the circumstances and the actions of the old man, there was nothing wrong with his response.
 
2014-03-14 11:44:08 AM  

MurphyMurphy: The cop mistook the cane for a firearm.


On first viewing the video, so did I.
 
2014-03-14 11:48:00 AM  

MurphyMurphy: Wyalt Derp: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

Well, which is it?

The cop mistook the cane for a firearm.

However, in light of the circumstances and the actions of the old man, there was nothing wrong with his response.


Before the first frame, vehicle was most likely driven erratically.
From the first frame, it is obviously "an old man".
Unsteady, barely coordinated enough to stand.
Not to mention the audio of his voice.
This rogue cop was on a predetermined mission, cocked, locked and ready to fire.

If you accept this action by "police", you deserve where you end up.
 
2014-03-14 12:11:19 PM  

lizyrd: LavenderWolf: "did the right thing."

Yep, anything in the name of officer safety, including shooting at innocent people.

Cops: Cowards to the core.

How often have you felt your life has been at risk at your job? How often do you complete a task at work only to say 3 minutes later, "holy shiat that was close, someone could have died"? I'm not a cop, but I've been called a coward on Fark for responding to a hypothetical in a way that did not mesh with what they thought my job was. So I get a chuckle when cube dwellers who spend 8 hours a day tethered to a desk will comment on the cowardice of a man whose job puts him in a position to decide, in less than a second, in the dark with headlights going by, whether that long, round thing is a shotgun tracking toward him or not.

I'd say "did the right thing" is a stretch, "what he did was understandable" is more in line. I think the old man did all the wrong things: opening his door without being prompted, exiting the vehicle, ignoring/not hearing the officer, reaching back into his truck for his cane while still ignoring/not hearing, and then turning with the cane elevated.


Why don't you ask the Vietnam vet with a cane those questions?
The cop was wearing body armor. It was obvious that old guy had trouble walking when he got out of his farking truck.
One-handed shotgun shooting? Riiiight.
Cop's a farking coward who fired into traffic. He should not have been trusted with anything more complex than a farking nerf football, let alone a badge and a firearm.

And the old dude is comforting his wife.
 
2014-03-14 12:13:17 PM  
I'm raising my kids to be wary of cops.

They get the standard "police are there to protect and serve" indoctrination from society, but from me they get the message that a cop's main job is to fine you or put you in jail.

Never answer a cop's questions.    Be respectful but keep your lip zipped.  Any time you have an encounter with a cop, they start building a case against you, and anything you offer will be used against you, never for you.

Never give permission for them to look through anything.  If they order you out of the car, roll up the window and lock the doors as soon as you exit.  Never consent to any searches or perform any field-sobriety tests.

Your only responses to inquiry is "am I being detained or am I free to go?"  If you are being detained, become silent and follow any commands given to a tee.

Cops only investigate crimes, they don't prevent them.

I don't hate cops, but they're too many bad-apple, power-tripping, 'roid-ragers with a badge and gun that I just stay the hell away from them as much as possible.

And they can't shoot, either.
 
2014-03-14 12:16:29 PM  

Caffienatedjedi: I'm curious how much of this is just kneejerk hate. I have a strong distaste of police, was raised to never trust them and never approach them unless I needed to(just being near them makes me uncomfortable), but watching the video I find the cops actions totally reasonable. The civvy farked up hard, and did all the stupidest things. When the officer realised it wasn't a weapon, he went running to  help the man he just shot, but the damn cane was pointed directly at the cop, and in that lighting it did look like a weapon. So yea, the officer made a mistake, but its a human mistake, and when he farked up he did what he could to rectify it. Any asshole cope would of probably just called EMT and then left him there to suffer.


The police officer could have oh I don't know ordered the man to get back in his vehicle. Or even forcibly told the guy NOT to get out of the car. Whoa Whoa Whoa are not commands that the police are trained to use. I would bet that cop was doing something in his patrol car that made him not see the man exiting the vehicle until he was reaching for his cane. So the cop lost control of the scene and then scrambling to control the scene fired on an unarmed man because he thought the cane was a firearm. So he is incompetent at the very least and unable to follow procedures which led to a 70 year old man getting shot
 
2014-03-14 12:18:21 PM  

BigGrnEggGriller: they're too many bad-apple, power-tripping, 'roid-ragers with a badge and gun that I just stay the hell away from them as much as possible


My entire local force is composed entirely of roided up skin heads.  They're scary people.
 
2014-03-14 12:20:37 PM  

kindms: Caffienatedjedi:
So he is incompetent at the very least and unable to follow procedures which led to a 70 year old man

HERO getting shot
 
2014-03-14 12:32:46 PM  

jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

/Love me some irrational Fark "Cop hate threads..."


Would you be this understanding if a non-cop shot an old man with a cane?
 
2014-03-14 12:37:54 PM  

lizyrd: LavenderWolf: "did the right thing."

Yep, anything in the name of officer safety, including shooting at innocent people.

Cops: Cowards to the core.

How often have you felt your life has been at risk at your job?



More than you'd think. Still haven't shot at a disabled veteran, though.

Public safety is supposed to come before your life as a police officer. That's the way it is. If you think that old man has a shotgun, maybe wait to confirm before you start shooting? Even if he has a shotgun, he might just be trying to surrender it to you in old-man-confusion. You just don't know, and until you know, you don't start putting farking holes in people or their stuff.
 
2014-03-14 12:46:38 PM  

kindms: Caffienatedjedi: I'm curious how much of this is just kneejerk hate. I have a strong distaste of police, was raised to never trust them and never approach them unless I needed to(just being near them makes me uncomfortable), but watching the video I find the cops actions totally reasonable. The civvy farked up hard, and did all the stupidest things. When the officer realised it wasn't a weapon, he went running to  help the man he just shot, but the damn cane was pointed directly at the cop, and in that lighting it did look like a weapon. So yea, the officer made a mistake, but its a human mistake, and when he farked up he did what he could to rectify it. Any asshole cope would of probably just called EMT and then left him there to suffer.

The police officer could have oh I don't know ordered the man to get back in his vehicle. Or even forcibly told the guy NOT to get out of the car. Whoa Whoa Whoa are not commands that the police are trained to use. I would bet that cop was doing something in his patrol car that made him not see the man exiting the vehicle until he was reaching for his cane. So the cop lost control of the scene and then scrambling to control the scene fired on an unarmed man because he thought the cane was a firearm. So he is incompetent at the very least and unable to follow procedures which led to a 70 year old man getting shot


He did order the man back into the vehicle. The man ignored him and kept going to get the cane from the gun rack, which is y'know, often used to store guns. Now, I agree the officer did lose control of the situation, but that does not denote complete incompetence. This kinda shiat happens, and I find it miles better than cops that murder peoples dogs, or beat homeless to death. Its acceptable risk, not intentional brutality.
 
2014-03-14 12:54:05 PM  

Caffienatedjedi: kindms: Caffienatedjedi: I'm curious how much of this is just kneejerk hate. I have a strong distaste of police, was raised to never trust them and never approach them unless I needed to(just being near them makes me uncomfortable), but watching the video I find the cops actions totally reasonable. The civvy farked up hard, and did all the stupidest things. When the officer realised it wasn't a weapon, he went running to  help the man he just shot, but the damn cane was pointed directly at the cop, and in that lighting it did look like a weapon. So yea, the officer made a mistake, but its a human mistake, and when he farked up he did what he could to rectify it. Any asshole cope would of probably just called EMT and then left him there to suffer.

The police officer could have oh I don't know ordered the man to get back in his vehicle. Or even forcibly told the guy NOT to get out of the car. Whoa Whoa Whoa are not commands that the police are trained to use. I would bet that cop was doing something in his patrol car that made him not see the man exiting the vehicle until he was reaching for his cane. So the cop lost control of the scene and then scrambling to control the scene fired on an unarmed man because he thought the cane was a firearm. So he is incompetent at the very least and unable to follow procedures which led to a 70 year old man getting shot

He did order the man back into the vehicle. The man ignored him and kept going to get the cane from the gun rack, which is y'know, often used to store guns. Now, I agree the officer did lose control of the situation, but that does not denote complete incompetence. This kinda shiat happens, and I find it miles better than cops that murder peoples dogs, or beat homeless to death. Its acceptable risk, not intentional brutality.


How about we go with the best witness, the cop that KNOWS he just farked up REAL BAD.
 
2014-03-14 01:06:09 PM  

snocone: Caffienatedjedi: kindms: Caffienatedjedi: I'm curious how much of this is just kneejerk hate. I have a strong distaste of police, was raised to never trust them and never approach them unless I needed to(just being near them makes me uncomfortable), but watching the video I find the cops actions totally reasonable. The civvy farked up hard, and did all the stupidest things. When the officer realised it wasn't a weapon, he went running to  help the man he just shot, but the damn cane was pointed directly at the cop, and in that lighting it did look like a weapon. So yea, the officer made a mistake, but its a human mistake, and when he farked up he did what he could to rectify it. Any asshole cope would of probably just called EMT and then left him there to suffer.

The police officer could have oh I don't know ordered the man to get back in his vehicle. Or even forcibly told the guy NOT to get out of the car. Whoa Whoa Whoa are not commands that the police are trained to use. I would bet that cop was doing something in his patrol car that made him not see the man exiting the vehicle until he was reaching for his cane. So the cop lost control of the scene and then scrambling to control the scene fired on an unarmed man because he thought the cane was a firearm. So he is incompetent at the very least and unable to follow procedures which led to a 70 year old man getting shot

He did order the man back into the vehicle. The man ignored him and kept going to get the cane from the gun rack, which is y'know, often used to store guns. Now, I agree the officer did lose control of the situation, but that does not denote complete incompetence. This kinda shiat happens, and I find it miles better than cops that murder peoples dogs, or beat homeless to death. Its acceptable risk, not intentional brutality.

How about we go with the best witness, the cop that KNOWS he just farked up REAL BAD.


Which is almost unheard of with cops. May be part of the reason I side with him, he sounds like the rare good one who made genuine error. That I will defend from kneejerk all cops are bad ideology. I've known some good cops, had trouble being around them due to personal conditioning, but they held themselves completely differently than bad cops. They didn't hold themselves in positions of power, but were more like that neighbor that helps you move, or to find something you lost. They admitted to being human, and just wanted to help people, and would admit when they farked up. Bad cops never admitted to error, and seemed irate to be dealing with people in my experiences.
 
2014-03-14 01:51:43 PM  
I was wondering how long this was going to take to get on Fark.

/lives in the next city over.
 
2014-03-14 02:55:03 PM  
I'll tell ya what, I'm a fifty-something white man who was born and raised in SC and if there is one place where a black cop stopping a 70-something white man in a pickup truck at night can reasonably mistake a cane being leveled at him for a shotgun being leveled at him, it's South Carolina.

No shiat.  There are some trigger happy old crackers down there who will just as soon shoot an attractive and successful african-american as look at him.

Especially the attractive and successful ones.
 
2014-03-14 03:09:13 PM  

Oblio13: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

/Love me some irrational Fark "Cop hate threads..."

Would you be this understanding if a non-cop shot an old man with a cane?


You can't really apply this to a situation like this.  A non-cop doesn't have a right to pull over and question an individual for an apparent violation of the law. So a non-cop wouldn't encounter a situation like this of stopping an unknown individual at night along the road. A non-cop doesn't have the training both academy and on the job training to be able to handle these encounters.

Examine the situation and see if the reaction to the situation is reasonable without looking out the outcome. You have a suspect who is stopped exiting the vehicle without being told to and not responding to commands. The suspect despite the officers attempts to get him to stop ,reaches back into the vehicle and pulls out a long skinny cylindrical object and swings it toward the officer.  The reaction and training by the officer strongly suggests that this behavior justifies a use of deadly force as it is an imminent threat to his life and the officer opens fire.

It was a mistaken identity of a cane for a shotgun, which at that distance and lighting conditions, anyone could make as a cane certainly fits the profile of a single barrel shotgun in many ways when it is being moved at a distance. The behavior of the suspect up until that point enhanced the officers belief that the suspect may have a weapon by ignoring the officer and moving with a purpose to get his cane.  The suspect did not have a huge neon sign above his head saying "I am a friendly and harmless, hard of hearing, 70 year old who needs a cane who likes to get out of cars and talk."   Even if you don't have personal experience with police, anyone who is mildly observant of popular culture police procedurals, news, fake reality documentary shows ICOPS), knows that certain behaviors are expected with police encounters and deviating from this can cause you harm.

I am glad the 70 year old is going to survive this encounter as stupidity shouldn't be a death sentence.  However the 70 year old acted stupidly and did everything in his power to get shot so we shouldn't hold it against the officer.  If that cane had been a shotgun, we could have had a dead officer. I just hope this officer is able to get past what he did so he can move on.
 
2014-03-14 03:21:18 PM  

Daedalus27: You have a suspect who is stopped exiting the vehicle without being told to and not responding to commands. The suspect despite the officers attempts to get him to stop ,reaches back into the vehicle and pulls out a long skinny cylindrical object and swings it toward the officer. The reaction and training by the officer strongly suggests that this behavior justifies a use of deadly force as it is an imminent threat to his life and the officer opens fire.


also keep in mind the "suspect" was so old that all this took about 20 seconds to accomplish as he unsteadily moved about to get his cane.
 
2014-03-14 03:34:23 PM  
The claim that it looked like a shotgun holds up if you look rely on the dashcam, what that doesn't show is how badly the dashcam handles colors, reflections, and glare.  The cop needs his eyes checked and his trigger finger removed.

Cell phone: Gun
Cane:  Shotgun
Hand in pocket: Furtive movement.

So  many excuses for a cop to put a bullet in an innocent person the only real protection we have is the willingness of police to make certain before they shoot!  You can't simply dismiss that responsibility because it might get serious like that one time on that dashcam video the cops watch over and over.  This is real life and you have to act in accordance with reality not the fear you get from watching TV.
 
2014-03-14 03:44:07 PM  

jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.


People who are more likely to be injured or killed on the job than cops:

- Garbage men
- Truck drivers
- Electrical utility workers
- Roofers
- Farmers and ranchers
- Iron and steel workers
- Aircraft pilots
- Loggers
- Commercial fishermen

Source: US Bureau of Labor Statistics

People who whine more than cops about how dangerous their jobs are:

- Pretty much nobody

Source: Fark.com
 
2014-03-14 03:45:15 PM  
(That said, yes, this was a case of an incredibly stupid civilian meeting an unusually jumpy cop.  Pretty far from the top of the list of LEO-perpetrated outrages of late.)
 
2014-03-14 04:02:04 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: (That said, yes, this was a case of an incredibly stupid civilian meeting an unusually jumpy cop.  Pretty far from the top of the list of LEO-perpetrated outrages of late.)


Correction: The cop is a civilian, the old man is a veteran.

/Civilians who refer to military as "civilians"? KHITBASH.
//And gentiles who refer to other gentiles and Jews as "gentiles? The same.
 
2014-03-14 04:10:34 PM  

Headso: Daedalus27: You have a suspect who is stopped exiting the vehicle without being told to and not responding to commands. The suspect despite the officers attempts to get him to stop ,reaches back into the vehicle and pulls out a long skinny cylindrical object and swings it toward the officer. The reaction and training by the officer strongly suggests that this behavior justifies a use of deadly force as it is an imminent threat to his life and the officer opens fire.

also keep in mind the "suspect" was so old that all this took about 20 seconds to accomplish as he unsteadily moved about to get his cane.


Is he old, does he have a disability, is he so intoxicated/impaired that he doesn't know what he is doing?  You don't know why he is taking so long to be moving, but during the 20 seconds he isn't responding or communicating to the officer.  Yes he took time, but the officer didn't know if he was taking the time to retrieve his cane or his shotgun.
 
2014-03-14 04:18:50 PM  

God--: As an ex cop I just want to say in the dark with flashing lights something like a cane could easily be mistaken for a shotgun.


What is this "dark" you speak of?  The truck was being blasted with standard issue millions of candlepower spotlight.

As for getting out of the vehicle, the old man got his permit in a different age when the cop escorted you home if you were drunk driving. They don't send you letters from the DMV telling you cops are so paranoid that anything you put your hand on may get you shot whether inside or outside the vehicle.

It used to be that you got your papers ready for the cops when you got pulled over.  The old man probably can't reach into his pocket so easily anymore while sitting down so I imagine that could be another reason he got out.  You can't put registration in the glove box because cops will think you're reaching for a gun there.

It's rather crazy that most of the time that someone is pulled over nobody will get shot but the public has to prepare for the possibly of a jittery cop and play mannequin until the officer utters "Simon says".
 
2014-03-14 04:24:36 PM  

God--: As an ex cop I just want to say in the dark with flashing lights something like a cane  could easily be mistaken for a shotgun. Yes this was a tragedy and the cop has to live with it for the rest of his life but lets look at what happened. The old man got out of the car, the cop yelled at him to get back in the car (this is actually normal procedure to avoid physical conflicts) the old man either ignored him or didn't hear him. Next he reached for his cane and the cop started yelling more and either the old man ignored him or didn't hear him, next all you can see with the flashing lights is what appears to be the barrel of a shotgun being pointed at him. He has a split second to make the judgement to pull the trigger. He had no other choice given what he could see and his training. So sure, go hate on the cop, but lets say it really was a shotgun being wielded by a crazy old man and the cop decided to give the benefit of the doubt to an old man. You could just as easily be looking a dead police officer. Again, while this was a tragedy, it played out the way it did because it had to once the old man got out of the car. So hate on people.


Interesting that you mention the flashing lights.  I was out for a walk last summer after dark.  I was walking along the sidewalk on an unlit section of road, and ahead a cop car had pulled someone over for some sort of traffic violation.  Their lights were going to let cars know they were there.  I couldn't see the sidewalk ahead of me.  The flashing completely blinded me.  I had another incident where I nearly hit a dead deer on the side of the road because of the glare from a cops lights (I was going to the site of the accident, my brother had hit the deer and totalled his car and I was going to pick him up).  I'm not entirely sure that we light cop cars in the optimum fashion.  This cop might have better served without the flashing.  If you are pulled over on the correct side of the road, do you really need flashing forward once the other vehicle has pulled over?  (You need flashing behind you to warn traffic coming by, but on all but the most narrow roads traffic coming the other way should be on the other side of the road anyway.)

Would he have been able to see that it was a cane with better lighting?  Maybe.  Would the cop mistaken it for a gun if the guy had stayed in his car like he was supposed to?  Nope.

Don't get out of the car when you are stopped.  Don't disappear from view.  I freaked a cop out once, the first time I got pulled over for speeding, by unbuckling and reaching over into the glove compartment to get my registration before he got to the vehicle.  He didn't draw, but he didn't take his hand off the gun right away either.  I was just driving a little fast on a road everyone drives a bit fast on, but he had no way of knowing if I had drugs and a gun in the car.  While I could debate whether the war on drugs makes traffic stops more dangerous for everyone, or whether you need to stop someone for expired tags (seems you could issue that ticket by mail), the point is, the cop didn't know and by getting out of the car, and then reaching for something that, in a tense moment, could be mistaken for a gun...
 
2014-03-14 04:32:00 PM  

Ivan the Tolerable: No reasonable person could have interpreted the old man's actions in any other way. I would have shot him too. The only thing the cop did wrong was miss so many times.
The old guy did EVERYTHING wrong, and just wouldn't stop compounding it. Getting out of a car when stopped is not smart, nor is ignoring all warnings to get back inside. Thats one thing, but it takes a real moron to think reaching back into the truck to get a long shiny metal item off the trucks gun rack while doing it was a good idea. Holy shiat that guy was stupid.


Your description of what happened seems wrong.  Even if the old man could hear, sir sir sir and whoa whoa whoa are not commands.  For all I know as a citizen, the cop is reacting to a passing car coming too close.  And what gun rack?  Who actually uses gun racks in street vehicles?
 
2014-03-14 04:42:50 PM  

MassAsster: enough officers where shot/assaulted to where things changed. fbi statistcs changed lots of practices


I don't buy that.  The news ramping up every crime hasn't helped but out of millions of police stops, the death rate for cops is still pretty low.  Cabbies didn't edge down their murder numbers by firing on customers.

The job is protect and serve which would imply the edge goes towards keeping the citizens alive.  How many extra citizens have died or been shot over the mistaken "state of mind" of an officer?   Anyone dieing is a tragedy but how is this new formula better?
 
2014-03-14 05:02:02 PM  

ArkAngel: Fox News Channel reporter Trace Gallagher reported on Thursday that Knox's commanding officer said, judging from the dash cam tape, that Knox "did the right thing."

How in the hell was that the right thing? He shouts something at the guy then completely unloads on him. Doesn't even say "Drop the gun" until he emptied a magazine at him.

Dumbass cop needs to be fired


Commanding officer does to, if that's the message he is sending out.

lizyrd: , "what he did was understandable" is more in line


Pull out a cane (or other like item) at your next traffic stop.  Pretty please?
 
2014-03-14 05:02:19 PM  

Daedalus27: Headso: Daedalus27: You have a suspect who is stopped exiting the vehicle without being told to and not responding to commands. The suspect despite the officers attempts to get him to stop ,reaches back into the vehicle and pulls out a long skinny cylindrical object and swings it toward the officer. The reaction and training by the officer strongly suggests that this behavior justifies a use of deadly force as it is an imminent threat to his life and the officer opens fire.

also keep in mind the "suspect" was so old that all this took about 20 seconds to accomplish as he unsteadily moved about to get his cane.

Is he old, does he have a disability, is he so intoxicated/impaired that he doesn't know what he is doing?  You don't know why he is taking so long to be moving, but during the 20 seconds he isn't responding or communicating to the officer.  Yes he took time, but the officer didn't know if he was taking the time to retrieve his cane or his shotgun.


As someone mentioned up thread just because you can't see well on this guy's BW dash cam video that doesn't mean this cop couldn't tell this was an old geezer even before the cotton tops pulled over. This cop was trigger happy or just so afraid to do his job he shoots at anything, either way not the type of person that should be allowed to have control over the lives of others. The real scary thing is the fact that there are so many police apologists so it's just blame the victim for being gunned down.
 
2014-03-14 05:07:14 PM  

MassAsster: jpo2269: The police officer did nothing wrong.  The cane looked very much like a shotgun.  I love how so many people who don't have jobs where their lives are in jeopardy every day act all morally superior.  Yes, the cop made a mistake, but given the video evidence, it is not difficult to see or understand why the police officer acted in this manner.

/Love me some irrational Fark "Cop hate threads..."

This..

DO   NOT   GET   OUT   OF   THE  DAMN  CAR....

Please, if you take anything away from this thread,  PLEASE STAY IN YOUR CAR.

1) It's not safe for you to be wondering in traffic
2) It's not taken as a sign of being friendly

We walk and play in traffic daily, you do not..
We position our car for our safety and yours, but that doesn't mean a drunk and/or stupid person isn't going to some how hit either car anyway...


THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GMCfxezdfE   is drilled into every officers head...


Maybe if that EXTREMELY rare circumstance (to the point of statistical insignificance) wasn't "drilled into every officers head" we would have dipshiats like this pissing themselves and unloading their weapon everytime a bug farts.

Naw better a few innocent people die than an officer respect even a fraction of the rules of engagement that a soldier in Afghanistan has to follow.

Defending the officer in this situation in any way (other than pointing out he was a scared idiot and it wasn't malicious) is pitiful on a scale I can't even comprehend.
 
2014-03-14 05:21:11 PM  

IRQ12: ArkAngel: Fox News Channel reporter Trace Gallagher reported on Thursday that Knox's commanding officer said, judging from the dash cam tape, that Knox "did the right thing."

How in the hell was that the right thing? He shouts something at the guy then completely unloads on him. Doesn't even say "Drop the gun" until he emptied a magazine at him.

Dumbass cop needs to be fired

Commanding officer does to, if that's the message he is sending out.

lizyrd: , "what he did was understandable" is more in line

Pull out a cane (or other like item) at your next traffic stop.  Pretty please?


No, don't think I will. See, I know how to keep cops calm when I deal with them. And I do deal with them. I suspect that I have more arrests under my belt than the average Farker, as well a a sometimes-less-than-cordial professional relationship with them. I'm no big fan of cops.

This guy did several things right in a row that raise red flags in a cop's head. These things compounded on each other, culminating in squaring his shoulders and raising a long, gun-sized object at the cop. That was a textbook example of how to get yourself shot while unarmed.
 
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