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(Talking Points Memo)   GOP Senator: How many Canadian patients die each year while on a waiting list? Canadian Physician: I don't know - but I do know that 45K Americans die every year for a lack of insurance   (talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, GOP, Canadians, United States, Michael Hiltzik, Canadian patients, senator, health cares, insurance companies  
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4113 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Mar 2014 at 8:25 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-13 05:04:28 PM  
Can someone get the Senator some poutine for the BURN?

/eh?
//and some Molson
 
2014-03-13 05:17:09 PM  
just let them go to the emergency room for that cancer treatment.  they'll take care of it.
 
2014-03-13 05:22:25 PM  
The GOP playbook is so dogeared and predictable, even Canadians know it by heart.
 
2014-03-13 05:23:27 PM  
To clarify, you're unlikely to die waiting for treatment for serious illness in Canada.

However, waiting longer than you might like for non-life threatening stuff, like hip replacement or joint surgery, are still challenges that we're working on.  In that sense, Canada has a defacto two-tier system, because people that can afford to get that surgery out of country or at a private clinic often do so.  But since that takes them out of the public queue, everyone wins.

My mom has had both knees done in Mexico, where they spend the winters anyway.  She couldn't think of a better way to recuperate than sitting in a beach chair with a beer watching the whales go by, and I'm inclined to agree with her.
 
2014-03-13 05:35:44 PM  
45K Americans die every year for a lack of insurance

Yeah, but they're poor Americans. Nobody gives a shiat about them. Well, nobody in the GOP, at any rate...
 
2014-03-13 05:38:52 PM  
FTFA: Burr asked Martin: "On average, how many Canadian patients on a waiting list die each year? Do you know?"
"I don't, sir, but I know that there are 45,000 in America who die waiting because they don't have insurance at all," Martin said.


bp0.blogger.com
 
2014-03-13 05:41:01 PM  
Yeah why look into our system when we can just dog yours?!

Follow up question: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"
 
2014-03-13 05:50:05 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"


Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?
 
2014-03-13 05:53:16 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?


yep, that's it
 
2014-03-13 05:55:25 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?


Took me a second to ketchup to the joke.

/ba dum tish
//ducks and runs
///srsly though, those two posts were well played
 
2014-03-13 05:55:57 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?

yep, that's it


He relished that one
 
2014-03-13 05:57:10 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?

yep, that's it

He relished that one


I offer it without condiment
 
2014-03-13 06:00:08 PM  
Gentlemen, gentlemen!

Can we all agree at least that having no health insurance leaves you at risk of finding yourself in a serious pickle?
 
2014-03-13 06:00:54 PM  

gilgigamesh: Gentlemen, gentlemen!

Can we all agree at least that having no health insurance leaves you at risk of finding yourself in a serious pickle?


Possibly.  But, it has been 1024 days since the last pickle incident, so we should be ok by now.
 
2014-03-13 06:29:14 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yeah why look into our system when we can just dog yours?!


I understand her response, because it's not a thing that's easy to apply metrics to.  Technically, doesn't everyone die waiting for medical care that will save them?

He wanted to know how many people with life threatening illnesses died because rationing or limited access to public health resources.  Well, we Canadians don't have an answer to that, because it's not actually measurable, and because there are a whole lot of other factors at play, including distance and population density.  The divide in Canada is more urban/rural.  If you live in a high population area, access to resources is generally great.  In rural areas, it's ok.  In remote locations, it invariably involves travel, which is not covered.  That's why we're pioneering so many distance delivery systems.

But if he wanted to make a political point, he shouldn't do it based on the number of deaths.  Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.

But I don't have a problem with the current system.  All of the biatching about wait times on elective and non-critical surgeries would go away tomorrow if we just chucked another 50% more at the problem, i.e.: what the US spends per capita.  But I'm of a mind that there should be rationing, because there always needs to be downward pressure put on the finances of the situation.  And if you want more beyond that, feel free to pay for it out of pocket.

What blows me away about guys like this is that they claim to be fiscal conservatives, but clearly are incapable of doing even the basic math about how this all works.
 
2014-03-13 06:44:11 PM  

gilgigamesh: Gentlemen, gentlemen!

Can we all agree at least that having no health insurance leaves you at risk of finding yourself in a serious pickle?


"Let them go the emergency rooms"

i.huffpost.com
 
2014-03-13 08:06:09 PM  
This thread is making me hungry.
 
2014-03-13 08:12:15 PM  

fusillade762: This thread is making me hungry.


I relish threads like this.  In fact, i will come back later and ketchup with any posts I missed
 
2014-03-13 08:13:47 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-13 08:24:09 PM  
Give me Ham on five, hold the Mayo

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-13 08:30:59 PM  
boy this thread sure hamburger
 
2014-03-13 08:33:10 PM  
The "Oh Snap!" whiteboard just exploded.
 
2014-03-13 08:36:29 PM  
Boy, they can't even grandstand effectively these days.
 
2014-03-13 08:37:04 PM  

unyon: My mom has had both knees done in Mexico, where they spend the winters anyway.  She couldn't think of a better way to recuperate than sitting in a beach chair with a beer watching the whales go by, and I'm inclined to agree with her.


A bit telling right here.  Didn't decide to hop over the border and do it at a supposed superior (but in reality way overpriced) United States hospital.  She decided to have it done in Mexico.

There are a lot of things we do poorly as a Americans because we're unwilling to look for solutions already in place beyond our borders.  Healthcare is probably the biggest example.
 
2014-03-13 08:41:34 PM  
Listen to this fool SIZZLE. Smells like burning rat hair.
 
2014-03-13 08:43:22 PM  

unyon: are still challenges that we're working on.


Then you admit it!  Your entire healthcare system is a massive embarrassing failure!  The USA has the greatest healthcare in the world!!!!!!

/sarcasm, in case your meter is damaged
 
2014-03-13 08:46:03 PM  
Good thing Obamacare covers treatment for sick burns.
 
2014-03-13 08:46:58 PM  

CmndrFish: unyon: My mom has had both knees done in Mexico, where they spend the winters anyway.  She couldn't think of a better way to recuperate than sitting in a beach chair with a beer watching the whales go by, and I'm inclined to agree with her.

A bit telling right here.  Didn't decide to hop over the border and do it at a supposed superior (but in reality way overpriced) United States hospital.  She decided to have it done in Mexico.

There are a lot of things we do poorly as a Americans because we're unwilling to look for solutions already in place beyond our borders.  Healthcare is probably the biggest example.


That should be the GOP's new slogan. Other than healthcare, primary education, secondary education, reproductive rights, family leave, labor laws, wage laws, foreign policy, defense policy, and energy policy... the US way of life is superior to every other nation on Earth.
 
2014-03-13 08:48:35 PM  
Christ, what an asshole.
 
2014-03-13 08:53:10 PM  
"Dr. Martin, in your testimony you note that Canadian doctors exiting the public system for the private sector has had the effect of increasing waiting lists for patients seeking public health care," Burr said. "Why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?"
"Thank you for your question, senator," Martin said. "If I didn't express myself in a way to make myself understood, I apologize. There are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years."


I love the polite Canadian way she says "That's not what I said,you farkin dumbass"
 
2014-03-13 08:55:59 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Follow up question: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"


To go with the Deep Fried Clinic?
 
2014-03-13 08:57:04 PM  
unyon:

He wanted to know how many people with life threatening illnesses died because rationing or limited access to public health resources.  Well, we Canadians don't have an answer to that, because it's not actually measurable, and because there are a whole lot of other factors at play, including distance and population density.

Indeed. Also, the number who die of a condition expected to be life threatening due to waiting for treatment for that life threatening condition is vanishingly tiny, with the exception of transplant surgery where donor organs are or are not available regardless of the healthcare system. Many may die of other conditions (heart attack while waiting for a hip) as old or sick people often have multiple conditions, or die because the condition actually kills them regardless of treatment, but cancer while on a waiting list for cancer treatment? Virtually no-one, waiting lists of any length are rare for actual life-threatening conditions.
 
2014-03-13 08:57:49 PM  
0-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2014-03-13 09:00:08 PM  
I didn't want to punch this guy until he said, "We have free healthcare, it's called the emergency room."
 
2014-03-13 09:01:03 PM  

unyon: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yeah why look into our system when we can just dog yours?!

I understand her response, because it's not a thing that's easy to apply metrics to.  Technically, doesn't everyone die waiting for medical care that will save them?

He wanted to know how many people with life threatening illnesses died because rationing or limited access to public health resources.  Well, we Canadians don't have an answer to that, because it's not actually measurable, and because there are a whole lot of other factors at play, including distance and population density.  The divide in Canada is more urban/rural.  If you live in a high population area, access to resources is generally great.  In rural areas, it's ok.  In remote locations, it invariably involves travel, which is not covered.  That's why we're pioneering so many distance delivery systems.

But if he wanted to make a political point, he shouldn't do it based on the number of deaths.  Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.

But I don't have a problem with the current system.  All of the biatching about wait times on elective and non-critical surgeries would go away tomorrow if we just chucked another 50% more at the problem, i.e.: what the US spends per capita.  But I'm of a mind that there should be rationing, because there always needs to be downward pressure put on the finances of the situation.  And if you want more beyond that, feel free to pay for it out of pocket.

What blows me away about guys like this is that they claim to be fiscal conservatives, but clearly are incapable of doing even the basic math about how this all works.


This guy is like, waaaay too smart. But its some kind of metrical thingamajig...like a tonne or something.
 
2014-03-13 09:01:04 PM  

unyon: waiting longer than you might like for non-life threatening stuff, like hip replacement or joint surgery, are still challenges that we're working on.  In that sense, Canada has a defacto two-tier system, because people that can afford to get that surgery out of country or at a private clinic often do so.  But since that takes them out of the public queue, everyone wins.


unyon: Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.



OK, but what do you do about the people who can't work because they need elective surgery (like joint replacements) to be useful? They can still starve in the streets, right? That's sort of like dying on a waiting list for medical care.
 
2014-03-13 09:05:27 PM  

notyoucoach: "Dr. Martin, in your testimony you note that Canadian doctors exiting the public system for the private sector has had the effect of increasing waiting lists for patients seeking public health care," Burr said. "Why are doctors exiting the public system in Canada?"
"Thank you for your question, senator," Martin said. "If I didn't express myself in a way to make myself understood, I apologize. There are no doctors exiting the public system in Canada, and in fact we see a net influx of physicians from the United States into the Canadian system over the last number of years."


I love the polite Canadian way she says "That's not what I said,you farkin dumbass"


Indeed.  It's something called "tact", which allows her to completely tell him off while still allowing him the dignity of assuming that his "misunderstanding" was her fault, so he might actually see things her way without belligerently fighting it.

The subtext is more beautiful.  "I'll pretend to say it's my fault you don't understand if you pretend, just for a few minutes, to not be a dumbass."
 
2014-03-13 09:06:24 PM  

LiberalWeenie: unyon: waiting longer than you might like for non-life threatening stuff, like hip replacement or joint surgery, are still challenges that we're working on.  In that sense, Canada has a defacto two-tier system, because people that can afford to get that surgery out of country or at a private clinic often do so.  But since that takes them out of the public queue, everyone wins.

unyon: Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.


OK, but what do you do about the people who can't work because they need elective surgery (like joint replacements) to be useful? They can still starve in the streets, right? That's sort of like dying on a waiting list for medical care.


In America, they go on Social Security disability.
 
2014-03-13 09:08:15 PM  

LiberalWeenie: unyon: waiting longer than you might like for non-life threatening stuff, like hip replacement or joint surgery, are still challenges that we're working on.  In that sense, Canada has a defacto two-tier system, because people that can afford to get that surgery out of country or at a private clinic often do so.  But since that takes them out of the public queue, everyone wins.

unyon: Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.


OK, but what do you do about the people who can't work because they need elective surgery (like joint replacements) to be useful? They can still starve in the streets, right? That's sort of like dying on a waiting list for medical care.


As opposed to the American system, where you *never* get that surgery because you can't work so you don't have health insurance.

I have some friends in that Catch-22.  Can't work because of a medical issue and can't get the medical issue dealt with because can't work.
 
2014-03-13 09:12:15 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?

yep, that's it


Wheel of derpality, turn turn turn. Tell us the lesson TSH refuses to learn.
 
2014-03-13 09:13:06 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Yeah why look into our system when we can just dog yours?!

Follow up question: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"


If you lived in Canada, the Waaaahmbulance would be covered.
 
2014-03-13 09:15:18 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Sin_City_Superhero: The Stealth Hippopotamus: "Do you know why the Mayo Clinic was founded?"

Because a Mustard Clinic would be ridiculous?

yep, that's it

Wheel of derpality, turn turn turn. Tell us the lesson TSH refuses to learn.


I feel a tiny ache in my heart for anyone who can not enjoy a simple silly joke.
 
2014-03-13 09:18:32 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: 45K Americans die every year for a lack of insurance

Yeah, but they're poor Americans. Nobody gives a shiat about them. Well, nobody in the GOP, at any rate...


Come now, the GOP cares about poor people. They care so much they're doing everything they can to make their lives shiattier than they already are so they'll be motivated to get bootstrappy and stop being poor.
 
2014-03-13 09:26:55 PM  

12349876: LiberalWeenie: unyon: waiting longer than you might like for non-life threatening stuff, like hip replacement or joint surgery, are still challenges that we're working on.  In that sense, Canada has a defacto two-tier system, because people that can afford to get that surgery out of country or at a private clinic often do so.  But since that takes them out of the public queue, everyone wins.

unyon: Life expectancy and lifesaving care is the one area that gets priority funding.  That's the point of universal health care- that you won't die because poor.  But other surgeries, like orthoscopics or hip replacement and so on- surgeries that can have a real impact on the quality of life- are the areas that are worthy of criticism.


OK, but what do you do about the people who can't work because they need elective surgery (like joint replacements) to be useful? They can still starve in the streets, right? That's sort of like dying on a waiting list for medical care.

In America, they go on Social Security disability.



If they've worked enough to qualify and can hire an attorney to appeal the rejection. All first-time applicants are rejected.
 
2014-03-13 09:27:24 PM  
I found that moment in the CSpan video and the Senator completely ignored her answer and just moved on to something else. He wasn't trying to find facts, he was trying to argue his bias. He learned nothing, and I mean nothing at all, from the exchange.
 
2014-03-13 09:30:18 PM  
So how do Republicans get the logic that waiting in line for medical service is somehow worse than getting none?

And besides I thought they were saying that no one is signing up for Obamacare, so what lines are the talking about?
 
2014-03-13 09:33:31 PM  
For what it's worth, my Canadian wife had knee surgery in 2008. Three months passed from her first meeting with the specialist to the date of surgery - hardly an extended period.

We've had friends and family with cancer, needing liver transplants, and so-on, and we have been nothing but happy with the service we've received.
 
2014-03-13 09:38:16 PM  
All my neighbors voted for Burr. Signs in some of their yards. Hell, most of them voted for Virginia Foxx. But NC isn't all like my current neighborhood. The last place I lived in NC most of my neighbors were refreshingly and proudly liberal.

It's really just a lot of ignorance. Not that all conservative's are ignorant, but all the closet-racists around me are.
 
2014-03-13 09:38:49 PM  

Corvus: So how do Republicans get the logic that waiting in line for medical service is somehow worse than getting none?

And besides I thought they were saying that no one is signing up for Obamacare, so what lines are the talking about?


Its not a perfect system so you've got to burn it to the ground. Same deal with welfare.
 
2014-03-13 09:39:04 PM  
c2.staticflickr.com


Really Fark? I'm the Weeners this? I has a sad....
 
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