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(Washington Examiner)   John Kerry: Putin has until Monday to reverse course on Ukraine. Or else, Tuesday   (washingtonexaminer.com) divider line 212
    More: Asinine, Ukraine, Russia, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, South Carolina Republican  
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2436 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2014 at 6:11 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-13 07:13:41 PM

cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.


Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.
 
2014-03-13 07:14:20 PM

positronica: The Bestest: StopLurkListen: Pinner: Crimeariver will "vote" to join Russia.

Here's what's on the ballot Russia set up for Crimea:
Option A: Join Russia.
Option B: Leave Ukraine.

Yeah, that's a legitimate election right there

The referendum is illegal to begin with since any votes of secession must be taken by Ukraine as a whole, (not just the breakaway region) as per the Ukrainian constitution.. and that's just setting aside the "influence" the Russian military presence will have on the vote (and the steadfast refusal to allow UN monitors).

When you say "Ukraine as a whole", who do you mean?  Do you mean the constitutionally elected, and then deposed, president Yanukovych and his government, or do you mean the unconstitutional government that took his place in Kiev?  If the protesters in Kiev had a right to topple the government there, then the people of Crimea most definitely have a right to do the same.


Does it really matter? Any vote taken to join another country while that country is actively invading is just not valid. Crimea didn't invite the Russians in to protect them from the rest of Ukraine, Russia did an unprovoked invasion. When Russia leaves and demobilizes then the vote may be credible.
 
2014-03-13 07:14:58 PM

The Bestest: positronica: When you say "Ukraine as a whole", who do you mean?  Do you mean the constitutionally elected, and then deposed, president Yanukovych and his government, or do you mean the unconstitutional government that took his place in Kiev?  If the protesters in Kiev had a right to topple the government there, then the people of Crimea most definitely have a right to do the same.

Fair enough point, but that still doesn't make the Crimea referendum legal.


NRBH*
*Not really, but hey
 
2014-03-13 07:15:01 PM

Infernalist: Communist_Manifesto: Joe USer: tinfoil-hat maggie: hutchkc: So the strongly worded letter is going out Tuesday morning, I'm sure Putin is quaking in his booties.

I guess Europe doesn't want Russian oil anymore.

Not after they start getting US natural gas.

They're gonna have to wait awhile for that one, the US currently doesn't export ANY liquefied natural gas like the Russians have. The first  liquefaction plant isn't even coming on line until next year. Gonna be a cold winter in Europe I guess.

Winter's almost over in Europe, and if necessary, Germany can kick their nuclear plant back online.

Russia may well keep Crimea, but they're going to suffer for it for years to come. Economically and politically, this was a complete disaster for Russia.


I was more  referring to if the conflict lasted until 2015 when the US could send a trickle of LNG to europe. The Germans could put some reactors back online I guess, but I'm not sure that's a feasible replacement for the LNG. I don't think there's too much we can do without resorting to WWIII to get the Russians to stop this nonsense sadly. Maybe someone more creative than me can come up with a plan though.
 
2014-03-13 07:15:54 PM

TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.


Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence
 
2014-03-13 07:17:15 PM

cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence


So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.
 
2014-03-13 07:17:52 PM

Fusilier: We're not going to do squat, and neither are the Germans. The rest of NATO is as deeply in debt as the US is. There are still a few people alive who remember Germany's last visit to the Ukraine. Putin has won this round.


Militarily over Crimea? No. Crimea is effectively lost already and the referendum is just a formality. There is still an obligation (by the West) to resist it, however, and more stringent economic sanctions are forthcoming barring some kind of deal.

A march on Odessa or Kyiv -would- possibly be met militarily.
 
2014-03-13 07:18:31 PM

The Bestest: Communist_Manifesto: Doesn't Norway more or less already export pretty much all of the excess to Europe right now? I don't know how they would be able to provide Europe with twice the amount if Russia shuts the pipelines off.

It'll be a crunch for sure, but Norway has already made a statement saying they would be able to cover short-term needs.


Well I hope that's right, do you have a link to that? I still think sanctions against Russia won't be all that efficacious at bringing about change given how large and integrated Russias economy is but then again if the Oligarchs feel the pain in the pocketbooks I bet Russia starts playing a different tune real quick. Either way this is a farked up situation, I don't like living under an increased threat of global thermonuclear war.
 
2014-03-13 07:18:44 PM

Fusilier: We're not going to do squat, and neither are the Germans. The rest of NATO is as deeply in debt as the US is. There are still a few people alive who remember Germany's last visit to the Ukraine. Putin has won this round.


You must be drunk. The German and American economies have both recovered faster and stronger than any others in the global market.

Russia has zero economic leverage to get out of this mess. They've already lost over 58 billion and they haven't even laid sanctions yet, much less asset seizure of Russian interests.

How do you say 'financial meltdown' in Russian?
 
2014-03-13 07:20:16 PM

mraudacia: not enough people paying attention to whats been happening there... catch up and wake up.

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t">http://ww w.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t

"The United States circulated a draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council on Thursday that would declare Sunday's planned referendum on independence for Ukraine's Crimea region illegal, but Russia has vowed to veto it, council diplomats said.

"

Ah, a textbook example of how the U.N. is only useful in pushing around the little guys and not solving actual major problems.
 
2014-03-13 07:21:06 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Well I hope that's right, do you have a link to that?


This article says they (Norway) could only do it for a few days, but they are prepared to.
 
2014-03-13 07:22:51 PM
what's with he deadlines? just launch the bombers...get this biatch going!!! this war isn't gonna fight itself
 
2014-03-13 07:23:42 PM

Infernalist: Communist_Manifesto: Joe USer: tinfoil-hat maggie: hutchkc: So the strongly worded letter is going out Tuesday morning, I'm sure Putin is quaking in his booties.

I guess Europe doesn't want Russian oil anymore.

Not after they start getting US natural gas.

They're gonna have to wait awhile for that one, the US currently doesn't export ANY liquefied natural gas like the Russians have. The first  liquefaction plant isn't even coming on line until next year. Gonna be a cold winter in Europe I guess.

Winter's almost over in Europe, and if necessary, Germany can kick their nuclear plant back online.

Russia may well keep Crimea, but they're going to suffer for it for years to come. Economically and politically, this was a complete disaster for Russia.



The US really wants to hit hard with sanctions and we may do so, but I just don't see Europe going along unless we prop them up.  England, France, and Germany has already said they don't want sanctions and as long as Russia stays to Crimea it's going to be a tough sell.   Europe has been trying to move away from being dependent on Russia but they aren't there yet.  Their economy is already weak and they are afraid of it faltering so I can see their hesitation.

I do believe Russia will keep Crimea and it will hurt them in the long run economically and speed up the European pullout from Russian gas/oil.  It will also hurt them as it will draw the EU and NATO much closer together as well as speeding up letting in countries.  I agree Putin may win the battle but lose the war when it's all said and done.
 
2014-03-13 07:23:46 PM

The Bestest: Communist_Manifesto: Well I hope that's right, do you have a link to that?

This article says they (Norway) could only do it for a few days, but they are prepared to.


I knew our warm winter would come in handy.
 
2014-03-13 07:24:36 PM

The Pope of Manwich Village: Is there anything Ambassador Rodman can do to contribute?


Will puking on one of the Kremlin's nice carpets help?
 
2014-03-13 07:24:43 PM

TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.


Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.
 
2014-03-13 07:25:15 PM

BigNumber12: mraudacia: not enough people paying attention to whats been happening there... catch up and wake up.

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t">http://ww w.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t

"The United States circulated a draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council on Thursday that would declare Sunday's planned referendum on independence for Ukraine's Crimea region illegal, but Russia has vowed to veto it, council diplomats said."

Ah, a textbook example of how the U.N. is only useful in pushing around the little guys and not solving actual major problems.


Russia is one of the five permanent members with veto power.  What did you expect?
 
2014-03-13 07:26:15 PM

cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.


Whoops. HTML fail on my part. Fixed here
 
2014-03-13 07:27:13 PM
trolibanas.lt: These days pretty much everyone in Ukraine realize that gays from Brussels are better than [censored] from Russia

trolibanas.lt: Fascists everywhere. ???


trolibanas.lt: Don't curse in Russian, or Putin will "save" you
 
2014-03-13 07:27:23 PM

traylor: mraudacia: not enough people paying attention to whats been happening there... catch up and wake up.

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t">http://ww w.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t

I'm not a redditter but I'm keeping an open tab in my browser with this thread for the last 3 or 4 weeks.


Ukrainian anti-aircraft missiles moved around near Odessa.

[pbs.twimg.com image 599x399]

Youtube video
Other video


Say what you will about its purpose, but God is military hardware beautiful.
 
2014-03-13 07:27:33 PM

cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.


What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?
 
2014-03-13 07:28:31 PM

Infernalist: Fusilier: We're not going to do squat, and neither are the Germans. The rest of NATO is as deeply in debt as the US is. There are still a few people alive who remember Germany's last visit to the Ukraine. Putin has won this round.

You must be drunk. The German and American economies have both recovered faster and stronger than any others in the global market.

Russia has zero economic leverage to get out of this mess. They've already lost over 58 billion and they haven't even laid sanctions yet, much less asset seizure of Russian interests.

How do you say 'financial meltdown' in Russian?


Woot! We're the West's tallest midget! Last time I looked the Federal Government seemed to be running in the red, and the recovery on Main Street is not nearly as robust as that on Wall Street. How are NATO stalwarts like Spain, Italy, Greece, and Poland doing? Think they'll sign on for a bit of belt tightening to make Mr. Putin back off?
 
2014-03-13 07:29:49 PM

TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.

What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?


I am not whitewashing history. I am talking about the Ukraine. That's been the only context that I was speaking of. How you got from A to B I don't know, but polls show that Americans really don't want war, left or right.
 
2014-03-13 07:30:51 PM
I hope the Obama knee lickers are ready to go fight for him to keep Ukraine free.

When you elect a weak-kneed President who goes on a US apology tour to tell the world we're sorry for having a military.  We're sorry for having military strength.  We're sorry we caused so much problems, can we just kiss and make up while bowing down to other world leaders in turn, it shows the world the leader we have is an elected tool, a pansy to be walked over.  When the same leader tells other world leaders "I'm drawing a red line, I mean it." then when the bad guy world leader crosses said red line only for the President to turn his back on said red line, it shows the world the President is weak and has no backbone.  Putin has played his cards right, knows Obama is all bark and no bite who guts the military to levels prior to our superpower standing.

I wanna see every last Obama voter go volunteer in our military so we can bring those numbers up to mean something.
 
2014-03-13 07:31:15 PM

Fusilier: Infernalist: Fusilier: We're not going to do squat, and neither are the Germans. The rest of NATO is as deeply in debt as the US is. There are still a few people alive who remember Germany's last visit to the Ukraine. Putin has won this round.

You must be drunk. The German and American economies have both recovered faster and stronger than any others in the global market.

Russia has zero economic leverage to get out of this mess. They've already lost over 58 billion and they haven't even laid sanctions yet, much less asset seizure of Russian interests.

How do you say 'financial meltdown' in Russian?

Woot! We're the West's tallest midget! Last time I looked the Federal Government seemed to be running in the red, and the recovery on Main Street is not nearly as robust as that on Wall Street. How are NATO stalwarts like Spain, Italy, Greece, and Poland doing? Think they'll sign on for a bit of belt tightening to make Mr. Putin back off?


They're all doing much better than Russia. The only dependable source of solid currency for Russia is from Europe and winter's nearly over.

They need our money far more than we need the fuel.
 
2014-03-13 07:32:12 PM

Fusilier: Woot! We're the West's tallest midget! Last time I looked the Federal Government seemed to be running in the red, and the recovery on Main Street is not nearly as robust as that on Wall Street. How are NATO stalwarts like Spain, Italy, Greece, and Poland doing? Think they'll sign on for a bit of belt tightening to make Mr. Putin back off?


Poland prob would, they are scared as hell atm of Russia invading.  Not gonna happen, but considering their history can you blame them. :)
 
2014-03-13 07:33:47 PM

cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.

What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?

I am not whitewashing history. I am talking about the Ukraine. That's been the only context that I was speaking of. How you got from A to B I don't know, but polls show that Americans really don't want war, left or right.


Yet prominent members of the  GOP and many of its supporters seem to want it. That link didn't break down the results either, but I'd assume people on the right are more inclined to get involved than moderates and liberals. Thank God a plurality of all sides are against intervention, Americans are sick of war.
 
2014-03-13 07:33:49 PM
Back the Ukrainians with military aid but no troops. Supply intel and have them only pursue those 'unknown gunmen' who Putin has disavowed. Keep Odessa and the Eastern Ukraine in Kiev's control.

Meantime have US, EU and all others willing deny ALL visas to Russian citizens(diplomatic personnel excluded).  Continue with sanctions.
 
2014-03-13 07:34:31 PM
What Putin thinks of the USA.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a2a_1394529805

/ I don't thinks he gives a crap about sanctions.
 
2014-03-13 07:34:40 PM
What Putin thinks of the USA.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a2a_1394529805">http://www.liveleak.c om/view?i=a2a_1394529805

/ I don't thinks he gives a crap about sanctions.
 
2014-03-13 07:35:23 PM

CynicalLA: BigNumber12: mraudacia: not enough people paying attention to whats been happening there... catch up and wake up.

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t">http://ww w.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi?t=t

"The United States circulated a draft resolution to the U.N. Security Council on Thursday that would declare Sunday's planned referendum on independence for Ukraine's Crimea region illegal, but Russia has vowed to veto it, council diplomats said."

Ah, a textbook example of how the U.N. is only useful in pushing around the little guys and not solving actual major problems.

Russia is one of the five permanent members with veto power.  What did you expect?


Yes, that's what I'm commenting on, the Veto power.
 
2014-03-13 07:35:44 PM

TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.

What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?

I am not whitewashing history. I am talking about the Ukraine. That's been the only context that I was speaking of. How you got from A to B I don't know, but polls show that Americans really don't want war, left or right.

Yet prominent members of the  GOP and many of its supporters seem to want it. That link didn't break down the results either, but I'd assume people on the right are more inclined to get involved than moderates and liberals. Thank God a plurality of all sides are against intervention, Americans are sick of war.


Politicians don't always represent the will of the people. I haven't seen McCain talk about the Ukraine so I cant comment on what he said, but I will say that McCain has always been an opportunist moreso than a hard believer in ideology.
 
2014-03-13 07:36:23 PM

SithLord: I hope the Obama knee lickers are ready to go fight for him to keep Ukraine free.

When you elect a weak-kneed President who goes on a US apology tour to tell the world we're sorry for having a military.  We're sorry for having military strength.  We're sorry we caused so much problems, can we just kiss and make up while bowing down to other world leaders in turn, it shows the world the leader we have is an elected tool, a pansy to be walked over.  When the same leader tells other world leaders "I'm drawing a red line, I mean it." then when the bad guy world leader crosses said red line only for the President to turn his back on said red line, it shows the world the President is weak and has no backbone.  Putin has played his cards right, knows Obama is all bark and no bite who guts the military to levels prior to our superpower standing.

I wanna see every last Obama voter go volunteer in our military so we can bring those numbers up to mean something.


Why would people that are against war and voted for the guy for that reason sign up to fight a war they don't want? Either way, that was some bad trolling.
 
2014-03-13 07:36:53 PM
 
2014-03-13 07:38:14 PM

SithLord: I hope the Obama knee lickers are ready to go fight for him to keep Ukraine free.

When you elect a weak-kneed President who goes on a US apology tour to tell the world we're sorry for having a military.  We're sorry for having military strength.  We're sorry we caused so much problems, can we just kiss and make up while bowing down to other world leaders in turn, it shows the world the leader we have is an elected tool, a pansy to be walked over.  When the same leader tells other world leaders "I'm drawing a red line, I mean it." then when the bad guy world leader crosses said red line only for the President to turn his back on said red line, it shows the world the President is weak and has no backbone.  Putin has played his cards right, knows Obama is all bark and no bite who guts the military to levels prior to our superpower standing.

I wanna see every last Obama voter go volunteer in our military so we can bring those numbers up to mean something.


I honestly can't tell if this is satire or Talking Points Bingo
 
2014-03-13 07:39:51 PM

The Bestest: SithLord: I hope the Obama knee lickers are ready to go fight for him to keep Ukraine free.

When you elect a weak-kneed President who goes on a US apology tour to tell the world we're sorry for having a military.  We're sorry for having military strength.  We're sorry we caused so much problems, can we just kiss and make up while bowing down to other world leaders in turn, it shows the world the leader we have is an elected tool, a pansy to be walked over.  When the same leader tells other world leaders "I'm drawing a red line, I mean it." then when the bad guy world leader crosses said red line only for the President to turn his back on said red line, it shows the world the President is weak and has no backbone.  Putin has played his cards right, knows Obama is all bark and no bite who guts the military to levels prior to our superpower standing.

I wanna see every last Obama voter go volunteer in our military so we can bring those numbers up to mean something.

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or Talking Points Bingo


Likewise.

I was wondering how to reply to it but I just cant. Its too damn perfect to be trolling, but its too damn stupid to be real.
 
2014-03-13 07:40:06 PM

cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.

What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?

I am not whitewashing history. I am talking about the Ukraine. That's been the only context that I was speaking of. How you got from A to B I don't know, but polls show that Americans really don't want war, left or right.

Yet prominent members of the  GOP and many of its supporters seem to want it. That link didn't break down the results either, but I'd assume people on the right are more inclined to get involved than moderates and liberals. Thank God a plurality of all sides are against intervention, Americans are sick of war.

Politicians don't always represent the will of the people. I haven't seen McCain talk about the Ukraine so I cant comment on what he said, but I will say that McCain has always been an opportunist moreso than a hard believer in ideology.


Fair enough, but to act like war hawks and neo cons aren't a part if the GOP base is kind of silly.
 
2014-03-13 07:40:54 PM
The Crimea vote will be 95%. If it's any higher, it means that Guiliani voted twice.
 
2014-03-13 07:41:45 PM

TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: cman: TheJoe03: Right wingers really want another world war it seems. Bunch of psychotic morans.

Citation please. You wont find one. Polls have shown that military action in the Ukraine is not popular amongst the left or the right.

Just read this thread, the GOP kind of has the war/chicken hawk vote tied up.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence

So McCain is acting a fool? The GOP always has a boner for war, sorry your party is so farked up.

Not everyone is a Democrat or a Republican. Its sad that people are so blinded by us v them that they forget that.

Since you wont provide a citation, I will provide one for my argument about support for war.

What's your point? The GOP and many conservatives have been saber rattling. If McCain, Graham, and Cheney don't represent the right wing dicks I'm talking about, no evidence will appease your desire to whitewash conservatives history of war mongering.

/I'm not a Democrat myself, that's not really relevant since liberals aren't saber rattling, are they?

I am not whitewashing history. I am talking about the Ukraine. That's been the only context that I was speaking of. How you got from A to B I don't know, but polls show that Americans really don't want war, left or right.

Yet prominent members of the  GOP and many of its supporters seem to want it. That link didn't break down the results either, but I'd assume people on the right are more inclined to get involved than moderates and liberals. Thank God a plurality of all sides are against intervention, Americans are sick of war.

Politicians don't always represent the will of the people. I haven't seen McCain talk about the Ukraine so I cant comment on what he said, but I will say that McCain has always been an opportunist moreso than a hard believer in ideology.

Fair enough, but to act like war hawks and neo cons aren't a part if the GOP base is kind of silly.


Oh I aint.

My message wasn't meant to be some sort of defense for the GOP. I was only bashing McCain and nothing else.
 
2014-03-13 07:41:50 PM

shower_in_my_socks: BravadoGT: There's nothing he really can do.   Obama pissed away any credibility the US had long before this.

they used to take us seriously


Yeah, like when Bush was in office and Russia totally didn't invade Georgia. Oh, wait...


Bush provided logistical support and flew combat ready Georgian soldiers from Afghanistan right after the invasion. Has obama offered logistical support? Cant even pass an aid bill since Reid attached IMF funding to it, despite a clean house bill.
 
2014-03-13 07:42:17 PM

ShonenBat: Back the Ukrainians with military aid but no troops. Supply intel and have them only pursue those 'unknown gunmen' who Putin has disavowed.


Aaaaaaagain, those would be the "Ethnic Russians" that Putin has sworn to defend from "Nazi aggression." He didn't disavow them, he said he doesn't control them. They may or may not be Russian soldiers, but Putin would welcome a few of their deaths, as that would be his Green Light for "Go Time."
 
2014-03-13 07:43:48 PM

SithLord: I hope the Obama knee lickers are ready to go fight for him to keep Ukraine free.

I wanna see every last Obama voter go volunteer in our military so we can bring those numbers up to mean something.


Why?
 
2014-03-13 07:44:16 PM

CynicalLA: BigNumber12: Say what you will about its purpose, but God is military hardware beautiful.

http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/ap ac he-decimates-group-of-insurgents/1386473957001/


Damn that Apache for making those poor people kill each other.
 
2014-03-13 07:44:17 PM

hi13760: What Putin thinks of the USA.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a2a_1394529805

/ I don't thinks he gives a crap about sanctions.


Interesting video.. and he's right about a lot of it. Lost me at the end when he was talking about the A-bomb though. That was bullshiat (about Japan being in the throes of surrender).
 
2014-03-13 07:44:44 PM

cameroncrazy1984: bobothemagnificent: Time for another strongly worded letter.

No, sanctions. Worked with Iran, will work here. Russia's economy already sucks. Wouldn't take much.


Yes the 30% of energy the EU would lose has zero repercussions. There is a reason Germany and most of Europe hasn't brought up sanctions
 
2014-03-13 07:46:35 PM

BigNumber12: CynicalLA: BigNumber12: Say what you will about its purpose, but God is military hardware beautiful.

http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/ap ac he-decimates-group-of-insurgents/1386473957001/

Damn that Apache for making those poor people kill each other.


I was agreeing with you.  It's a beautiful killing machine.
 
2014-03-13 07:47:47 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Joe USer: tinfoil-hat maggie: hutchkc: So the strongly worded letter is going out Tuesday morning, I'm sure Putin is quaking in his booties.

I guess Europe doesn't want Russian oil anymore.

Not after they start getting US natural gas.

They're gonna have to wait awhile for that one, the US currently doesn't export ANY liquefied natural gas like the Russians have. The first  liquefaction plant isn't even coming on line until next year. Gonna be a cold winter in Europe I guess.


If only there was some pipeline to an abundant energy source which could increase energy exports from north America.. could call it Keystone maybe?
 
2014-03-13 07:47:53 PM

MyRandomName: cameroncrazy1984: bobothemagnificent: Time for another strongly worded letter.

No, sanctions. Worked with Iran, will work here. Russia's economy already sucks. Wouldn't take much.

Yes the 30% of energy the EU would lose has zero repercussions. There is a reason Germany and most of Europe hasn't brought up sanctions


It will definitely sting indeed, but I think people will feel a little bit ok with it knowing that they no longer are supporting a regime bent on rebuilding the Soviet Empire.
 
2014-03-13 07:48:42 PM
This was taken directly from rt.com


http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/


14:55 GMT:
Vladimir Putin has said Russia has now to focus on how to build relations with its partners in the EU, the US as well as in Ukraine, given the situation there. Speaking to the Russian Security Council, he said that despite the fact that Moscow is not the one to blame the conflict on, it still got involved.
"We can't ignore all the events across Ukraine, and Crimea - and all that has to do with this difficult problem, which occurred, and I want to stress that, not because of Russia, but it got involved in it anyway," Putin said. "Let's think together about how to conduct relations with our partners and friends in Ukraine and with our other partners in Europe and the United States."
 
2014-03-13 07:50:18 PM

MyRandomName: If only there was some pipeline to an abundant energy source which could increase energy exports from north America.. could call it Keystone maybe?


what would Keystone have to do with LNG?
 
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