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(Investors Business Daily)   Attention ObamaCare fans: Obama just guaranteed that his own health law will fail   (news.investors.com ) divider line
    More: Ironic, President Obama, obamacare, health law, Donald Verrilli  
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3715 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Mar 2014 at 12:00 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-13 10:45:56 AM  
Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]
 
2014-03-13 10:47:47 AM  

mrshowrules: Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]


I was going to rebut the article, but I think your comment is sufficient.
 
2014-03-13 10:57:00 AM  
One and done.
 
2014-03-13 11:01:37 AM  
IMO of Subby.

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-13 11:13:45 AM  
If you don't like the way the law currently stands, FIX IT. Otherwise, SHUT THE F*CK UP.

Sick and tired of these whiny little b*tches from Irritable Bowel Disease.
 
2014-03-13 11:16:38 AM  

bdub77: If you don't like the way the law currently stands, FIX IT. Otherwise, SHUT THE F*CK UP.

Sick and tired of these whiny little b*tches from Irritable Bowel Disease.


Did you recently have a stroke?  I have you farkied in yellow as a possible Sloth alt...

I seem to remember you as more of an Ayn Rand follower and believer in the power of bootstraps.
 
2014-03-13 11:26:04 AM  
Even though you call yourselves Investors Business Daily, we know you're just another Breitbart.com clone. But thanks for trying.
 
2014-03-13 11:28:33 AM  
Rather than impugning the source, how about explaining why the logic of the article is wrong.

Obama's own people testified that without the mandate, Obamacare won't work; the mandate has effectively been eliminated.

Lots of sick people are eager to get subsidized welfare healthcare; lots of healthy people have no interest in paying for them.  So, how do you square that circle?
 
2014-03-13 11:29:00 AM  

Lando Lincoln: Even though you call yourselves Investors Business Daily, we know you're just another Breitbart.com clone. But thanks for trying.



these are the people that are shocked when the law actually fails.
 
2014-03-13 11:36:55 AM  

Il Douchey: Rather than impugning the source, how about explaining why the logic of the article is wrong.

Obama's own people testified that without the mandate, Obamacare won't work; the mandate has effectively been eliminated.

Lots of sick people are eager to get subsidized welfare healthcare; lots of healthy people have no interest in paying for them.  So, how do you square that circle?


I wouldn't say the mandate has been eliminated, but its been loosened (i wish it hadn't been.)
Hopefully this is a temporary stay and next year there really will be a strict deadline and hard requirement. Otherwise, yes, it could cause big problems.
 
2014-03-13 11:44:21 AM  

Lando Lincoln: Even though you call yourselves Investors Business Daily, we know you're just another Breitbart.com clone. But thanks for trying.


I don't think the logic is wrong. The exemption stuff is troubling and definitely a loophole. However, I think everyone in the US knows the healthcare law is flawed. But instead of focusing on fixing the law, the GOP decided to double down on their whole repeal everything bullsh*t - actually they've doubled down 50 times now. This intractability has made fixing the existing law impossible. On the other side of the aisle, more progressives are in favor of single payer healthcare, but that kind of thing is absolutely ludicrous to the right.

Obama has tried to make the law less painful for most people, for political reasons as well as practical reasons. It's difficult to explain to people that their old insurance policies suck ass and if they got sick they would be totally farked.

The failure of this law is a failure of both sides, but mostly I blame the conservatives. It's been 4 years since healthcare was passed and they still have absolutely no proposals for a federal policy on healthcare. It's pretty obvious why. They don't say it in crowded rooms but they don't care that other people don't have health insurance. They might not want them to suffer but they certainly don't care if they do as long as it's out of their sight. And for the states' rights folks - fark you man. You know that will not work for a TON of reasons.
 
2014-03-13 11:48:54 AM  

SlothB77: Lando Lincoln: Even though you call yourselves Investors Business Daily, we know you're just another Breitbart.com clone. But thanks for trying.


these are the people that are shocked when the law actually fails.


Who are you referring to?
 
2014-03-13 11:52:39 AM  

Il Douchey: Rather than impugning the source, how about explaining why the logic of the article is wrong.



He's making a mountain out of a molehill.  And as is usually done with many right-wingish articles, provides a link to a source that basically shows what he is talking about isn't as big as he is making it out to be.  I guess they expect 1) no one will follow the link or 2) people will not think for themselves when following the link.  For one:

"Another easy out: Just fail to pay a utility bill until a shut-off notice arrives. Send that in and - poof! - hardship exemption."

It's just that easy?  You are someone who can afford insurance and simply decides not to purchase it so lets go ahead and not pay a utility bill for *two* months or better in order to have the city to shut off our water/electricity/etc.  It's "poof!", just that easy.

So follow the link, look at the hardship exemption and what you have to do to get one, and ask yourself if you really think enough people are going to falsely take advantage of that to totally "Guarantee" ACA's failure.

Some people recognize the total exaggerative bullshiat from the onset for good reason.
 
2014-03-13 11:53:18 AM  
Most of the fools who signed up have not paid any premiums and the law is only halfway to it's goal of 7 million by March 31st. After four months. 

/Sounds like a failure to me.
 
2014-03-13 11:57:02 AM  

Il Douchey: the mandate has effectively been eliminated.


No it hasn't.   Let's see. Link

It's an application for an exemption, not an automatic exemption.  You still have to justify why you want to claim this exemption and it is still subject to review.  Also, the usual claims about lying on official government forms apply.  Do you really want to go that route?

Now as for the author's arguments:  he uses the following three examples:

"So for the next three years, people can claim an exemption if they've had their previous plan canceled and "consider the other plans available unaffordable." They just need a copy of the cancellation notice."

Whether other affordable options are available is easily verifiable, by anyone with access to a computer.  If you claim that and it just turns out there WERE other affordable options in your state, I would assume the application would be denied and you would be told to go get insurance, or pay the fine.

"Someone claiming to have "experienced domestic violence" is automatically exempt, without submitting any documentation whatsoever."

No.  Someone claiming domestic violence is not automaticlly exempt.  They just don't have to submit evidence.  Thier application will still be reviewed and could be denied.

"Another easy out: Just fail to pay a utility bill until a shut-off notice arrives. Send that in and - poof! - hardship exemption."

Nope. Once again.  Besides the damage this would do to your credit rating, just to prove a point, it's just an application that can be denied.  So now, you're stuck with no running water, or electricity and you STILL have to pay the penalty because your cunning plan didn't work.
 
2014-03-13 11:59:37 AM  

UberDave: It's just that easy?  You are someone who can afford insurance and simply decides not to purchase it so lets go ahead and not pay a utility bill for *two* months or better in order to have the city to shut off our water/electricity/etc.  It's "poof!", just that easy.


Sounds pretty easy to me. I don't get it. What's so hard about having your credit rating destroyed and not having running water or power?

He forgot to mention that if you really want, you can just move out of your house and into a cardboard box. Boom! Instant exemption. Or get evicted! Getting evicted is another awesome way to get an exemption.

Or get beat up by your spouse! Take a couple of punches to the face for simple exemption. Black eyes are covered by Obamacare!
 
2014-03-13 12:02:07 PM  
img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-13 12:02:20 PM  
Chessmate, Libtards.
 
2014-03-13 12:03:02 PM  
Who's got the Inigo Montoya picture for "guaranteed"?

/done in one
 
2014-03-13 12:03:21 PM  

mrshowrules: Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]


yes because everyone that is mentally disabled is going to turn out to be a hawking

/man people are stupid.
 
2014-03-13 12:04:04 PM  
By plan.  This is the  the standard big government play: Gov creates problem and get bigger.  Gov solves problem by getting bigger.  People suffer.
I welcome our single payer overlords.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-13 12:04:11 PM  

Lee451: Most of the fools who signed up have not paid any premiums and the law is only halfway to it's goal of 7 million by March 31st. After four months. 

/Sounds like a failure to me.


I guess we just need to have a Canadian style single payer system then.
 
2014-03-13 12:05:17 PM  

Il Douchey: Rather than impugning the source, how about explaining why the logic of the article is wrong.

Obama's own people testified that without the mandate, Obamacare won't work; the mandate has effectively been eliminated.

Lots of sick people are eager to get subsidized welfare healthcare; lots of healthy people have no interest in paying for them.  So, how do you square that circle?


Fine, I'll address the article.

First: The extension is only for three years. Even if the first few years run in the red because not as many people as intended are insured, after the three years are up, as long as the exemption isn't extended further (and there's no reason to assume it will be) then the system will continue as originally intended. So this isn't the death of the system, at worst it's a temporary startup cost.

Second: The article assumes people would rather go uninsured just because they can than get new insurance available to them. If they were previously insured under a cancelled insurance it means they want to be insured, not all of them are going to wait three years to pick up new insurance.

Third: Similar to point two, there is still inherent risk in going uninsured, just because they can't refuse to cover you doesn't mean you can get insurance whenever. If you have an accident, have your appendix burst, or need any other emergency treatment, insurance won't retroactively cover it. They'd cover any subsequent cost, but you'd still need to pay for the emergency care, which is not cheap. This article suggests that people who previously couldn't get insurance because it was expensive will choose not to get the new subsidized insurance because that is an option.

Fourth: "Another easy out: Just fail to pay a utility bill until a shut-off notice arrives. Send that in and - poof! - hardship exemption." Hooray! Now try getting a mortgage. Are people really going to tank their credit rating just to put off getting insurance for a year or two?

Fifth: The article gives absolutely no numbers as to how many people are expected to take advantage of the extension, or how many people are completely ineligible. While it is possible for people to falsify their statements of need most people are both too honest and too lazy to try to defraud government rather than get insurance.

So excuse me if I don't take this article too seriously.
 
2014-03-13 12:06:12 PM  

xtech: mrshowrules: Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]

yes because everyone that is mentally disabled is going to turn out to be a hawking

/man people are stupid.


The fail is that Hawking is British and the NHS is the reason he's alive today.

Dr. Hawking - who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House on Wednesday - responded to the editorial this week, telling The Guardian newspaper, "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the N.H.S. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."
 
2014-03-13 12:07:41 PM  
investards.com
 
2014-03-13 12:10:00 PM  
I could have sworn I just read that the demand suddenly decreased and the supply stayed the same...Are people seriously surprised that the price of premiums has plummeted as a result?  THAT'S WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.
 
2014-03-13 12:10:32 PM  

Flab: "Someone claiming to have "experienced domestic violence" is automatically exempt, without submitting any documentation whatsoever."

No. Someone claiming domestic violence is not automaticlly exempt. They just don't have to submit evidence. Thier application will still be reviewed and could be denied.


And what sort of evidence is the author expecting you to provide? Police reports? Pictures of bruising?

After all, we know how much women love to falsely claim to be victims of crimes, right?
 
2014-03-13 12:10:33 PM  

UberDave: It's just that easy?  You are someone who can afford insurance and simply decides not to purchase it so lets go ahead and not pay a utility bill for *two* months or better in order to have the city to shut off our water/electricity/etc.  It's "poof!", just that easy.


I had my gas shut off once. Two days of cold showers. No farking thank you. I never allowed that to happen again. Water or electric being shut off would be a lot worse.

If you have a utility shut off for two whole months, you MUST BE dirt poor.
 
2014-03-13 12:10:40 PM  
Oh look, the already wealthy want to hear how the ACA is doomed. If they repeat it enough maybe magical unicorn pixie farts will spread rainbows over their assets.
 
2014-03-13 12:13:09 PM  
In fairness to the site, more exemptions could cause major problems.  When Hobby Lobby comes down, the number of existing exemptions will probably be used to justify requiring a religious exemption to the health care law under the RFRA (the expansion of corporate personhood is virtually a guarantee with this Court makeup).  When that happens, every damn company will start applying for exceptions and exemptions, and even though most of those will specifically relate to the birth control issue, it might well start creating problems for the system as a whole.
 
2014-03-13 12:13:36 PM  

bdub77: If you don't like the way the law currently stands, FIX IT. Otherwise, SHUT THE F*CK UP.

Sick and tired of these whiny little b*tches from Irritable Bowel Disease.


I believe Obama even said he'd sign any law that made ACA better.  How many of laws designed to improve ACA have passed?  Since there are none I have to assume the law is perfect.
 
2014-03-13 12:14:02 PM  

vernonFL: Il Douchey: Rather than impugning the source, how about explaining why the logic of the article is wrong.

Obama's own people testified that without the mandate, Obamacare won't work; the mandate has effectively been eliminated.

Lots of sick people are eager to get subsidized welfare healthcare; lots of healthy people have no interest in paying for them.  So, how do you square that circle?

I wouldn't say the mandate has been eliminated, but its been loosened (i wish it hadn't been.)
Hopefully this is a temporary stay and next year there really will be a strict deadline and hard requirement. Otherwise, yes, it could cause big problems.


Hai!
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-13 12:16:55 PM  

nmrsnr: Fine, I'll address the article.


In the future, don't bother. People like Il Douchey don't really give a shiat.

My uncle kept sending me links to American Thinker until I started meticulously refuting their stupid reasoning. Did he say, "Oh, good points. Huh. I guess American Thinker isn't that valid of a source." Nope. He just got mad and said I was a stupid liberal that didn't understand how the world worked.
 
2014-03-13 12:16:57 PM  
No, no he didn't. Next?

/I feel like I can post this after every article from IBS, Breitbart, WND, Townhall or American Thinker about Obama and it will apply.
 
2014-03-13 12:16:59 PM  

tricycleracer: xtech: mrshowrules: Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]

yes because everyone that is mentally disabled is going to turn out to be a hawking

/man people are stupid.

The fail is that Hawking is British and the NHS is the reason he's alive today.

Dr. Hawking - who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House on Wednesday - responded to the editorial this week, telling The Guardian newspaper, "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the N.H.S. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."


facepalm.

everyone who is mentally disabled / handicap is going to turn into hawking. we should throw tons of money at the mentally disabled people NOW!

//you realize hawking is that anomalous blip on the radar screen, right?
///course you do, troll.
 
2014-03-13 12:17:51 PM  
In related news; Sarah Palin is now president and Obama has been deported to Kenya.
 
2014-03-13 12:17:52 PM  
The more derp I hear from mouthpieces of our oligarch overlords, the more I'm sure the ACA is benefiting middle and lower income people.
 
2014-03-13 12:18:17 PM  

xtech: tricycleracer: xtech: mrshowrules: Other hits from this "news source" relating to Obamacare:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]

yes because everyone that is mentally disabled is going to turn out to be a hawking

/man people are stupid.

The fail is that Hawking is British and the NHS is the reason he's alive today.

Dr. Hawking - who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the White House on Wednesday - responded to the editorial this week, telling The Guardian newspaper, "I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the N.H.S. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."

facepalm.

everyone who is mentally disabled / handicap is going to turn into hawking. we should throw tons of money at the mentally disabled people NOW!

//you realize hawking is that anomalous blip on the radar screen, right?
///course you do, troll.


I'm not sure you could achieve a greater misunderstanding of the point if you were deliberately trying.
 
2014-03-13 12:18:54 PM  

SlothB77: Lando Lincoln: Even though you call yourselves Investors Business Daily, we know you're just another Breitbart.com clone. But thanks for trying.


these are the people that are shocked when the law actually fails.


Yep.  Any day now. It's gonna fail any day now.
 
2014-03-13 12:19:08 PM  

Muta: How many of laws designed to improve ACA have passed?


How many have been brought up for a vote in the House? How many have even made it to a committee meeting?
 
2014-03-13 12:19:39 PM  

xtech: yes because everyone that is mentally disabled is going to turn out to be a hawking


He has a neurological disability.
 
2014-03-13 12:19:46 PM  
OKAY, but how does this affect my gold??!?!?
 
2014-03-13 12:20:25 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: By plan.  This is the  the standard big government play: Gov creates problem and get bigger.  Gov solves problem by getting bigger.  People suffer.
I welcome our single payer overlords.


WTF are you on about?
 
2014-03-13 12:20:43 PM  
I'm pretty sure at this point, the headline is the title of a weekly column at Investors.
 
2014-03-13 12:21:22 PM  

qorkfiend: I'm not sure you could achieve a greater misunderstanding of the point if you were deliberately trying.


What's said is that he was probably deliberately trying.
 
2014-03-13 12:21:37 PM  
It's a relatively weak mandate as is.  The penalty maxes out at 2.5% of income after 2016.  If insurance costs you 2.7% of income, then I can see why someone might choose to free ride.  In order to be a true stick, the penalty should be greater.
 
2014-03-13 12:22:01 PM  
Who the fark wrote that p.o.s. anyway.  Out the farker.
 
2014-03-13 12:22:32 PM  
Was anyone else really hoping this was about Between Two Ferns? You know, that Obama being on the show to plug healthcare.gov was proof positive that all else had failed and he was flailing.

Better than an article about how convincing people you are destitute is way too easy coming from the same people who want an exemption from the law if they believe the law conflicts with their religious beliefs.
 
2014-03-13 12:22:38 PM  

UberDave: "Another easy out: Just fail to pay a utility bill until a shut-off notice arrives. Send that in and - poof! - hardship exemption."

It's just that easy? You are someone who can afford insurance and simply decides not to purchase it so lets go ahead and not pay a utility bill for *two* months or better in order to have the city to shut off our water/electricity/etc. It's "poof!", just that easy.

So follow the link, look at the hardship exemption and what you have to do to get one, and ask yourself if you really think enough people are going to falsely take advantage of that to totally "Guarantee" ACA's failure.


Seriously - most people do not fark around with their electricity/water/essentials.  Only a really twisted mind would even think of doing such a thing.  Then again, it was written by a "conservative" so we know they have twisted minds.
 
2014-03-13 12:23:33 PM  
Do I have to give back my Bone Marrow Transplant now?

/ Yeah, had a transplant on 1/17/14
// Wouldn't have happened without the ACA
 
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