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(The New York Times)   Germany urging Russia to help solve the Ukraine crisis. Russia responds "oh...that's a good one"   (nytimes.com) divider line 40
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1558 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2014 at 9:18 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



40 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-13 09:23:26 AM  
Yea, I suspect that won't work.
 
2014-03-13 09:27:08 AM  
i.ytimg.com
 
2014-03-13 09:38:04 AM  
For certain valued of solved.
 
2014-03-13 09:40:00 AM  
The ironic tag would have been appropriate here.
 
2014-03-13 09:53:53 AM  
Yeah, the Russians aren't going to roll over on this just because Merkel asked nicely, but the lady is saying things that needs to be publicly said.

============================================

static01.nyt.com

I like Merkel. She's been a good leader. I wish she could run for U.S. president. It would be fascinating to see her deal with the GOP assholes in congress.
 
2014-03-13 09:58:57 AM  

Riche: Yeah, the Russians aren't going to roll over on this just because Merkel asked nicely, but the lady is saying things that needs to be publicly said.

============================================



I like Merkel. She's been a good leader. I wish she could run for U.S. president. It would be fascinating to see her deal with the GOP assholes in congress.


Nah, one foreigner is enough...
 
2014-03-13 10:15:07 AM  
So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?
 
2014-03-13 10:24:54 AM  
Agreements between Russia and Germany about countries in between the two have a history of not lasting.
 
2014-03-13 10:48:00 AM  

Oldiron_79: Agreements between Russia and Germany about countries in between the two have a history of not lasting.


Rematch?

historyofrussia.org
 
2014-03-13 11:03:21 AM  

grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?


Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.
 
2014-03-13 11:20:30 AM  
Say, is anyone tracking how much of the $1 billion in US loans and $15 billion in EU loans to Ukraine are going towards arming the newly conscripted Ukrainian army? All of our Ukrainian friends are saying thier friends back home are getting draft notices.
 
2014-03-13 11:23:26 AM  

OdradekRex: Oldiron_79: Agreements between Russia and Germany about countries in between the two have a history of not lasting.

Rematch?


As long as the US doesnt somehow get dragged in go for it.
 
2014-03-13 12:07:36 PM  

rwa2: Say, is anyone tracking how much of the $1 billion in US loans and $15 billion in EU loans to Ukraine are going towards arming the newly conscripted Ukrainian army? All of our Ukrainian friends are saying thier friends back home are getting draft notices.


Ukraine has outstanding debt obligations. I don't think they're getting more than what they need to service that. It'll be fairly obvious if they didn't pay their debt.

Ukraine don't need aid to arm conscripts anyway, they have a native arms industry.
 
2014-03-13 12:15:44 PM  
And today's other article in the NYeT
Russia Massing Military Forces Near Border With Ukraine  http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/world/europe/ukraine.html
 
2014-03-13 01:14:52 PM  

Riche: Yeah, the Russians aren't going to roll over on this just because Merkel asked nicely, but the lady is saying things that needs to be publicly said.

============================================

[static01.nyt.com image 600x387]

I like Merkel. She's been a good leader. I wish she could run for U.S. president. It would be fascinating to see her deal with the GOP assholes in congress.


That picture makes me wonder who has their hand shoved up her ass to make her talk.
 
2014-03-13 01:58:07 PM  

OdradekRex: Oldiron_79: Agreements between Russia and Germany about countries in between the two have a history of not lasting.

Remarch?


upload.wikimedia.org

FTFY
 
2014-03-13 02:00:18 PM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.


It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.
 
2014-03-13 02:07:09 PM  
::::::::::: March 2014 -  Merkel  signs non-aggression pact with Putin ::::::::::::::::
 
2014-03-13 02:15:40 PM  

OdradekRex: Oldiron_79: Agreements between Russia and Germany about countries in between the two have a history of not lasting.

Rematch?

[historyofrussia.org image 565x383]



If Hitler had only listened to his generals, the Nazis would have Sooooo beaten the Soviets.

I often wonder how history would have played out if Moscow had been overrun and Stalin killed around the time of the Normandy invasion.

The U.S. would have still won in Europe, of course (we had the better manufacturing base and, if needed, nukes coming out of the pipeline a year later.)  But would we have had all the scientific advances we did if there was no cold war to force us to do the investments?
 
2014-03-13 02:18:34 PM  

Riche: I often wonder how history would have played out if Moscow had been overrun and Stalin killed around the time of the Normandy invasion.



Not quite what you're talking about but still interesting
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109779/

Fatherland.  Was based on a novel.

A murder mystery in 1960s Germany had Hitler won the war
 
2014-03-13 02:22:00 PM  

uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.


And we should do...what, exactly?
 
2014-03-13 02:25:27 PM  

grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?


I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.
 
2014-03-13 02:43:21 PM  

uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.


If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?
 
2014-03-13 03:09:41 PM  

grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?




I'd say its Because the last thirty years of nuclear disarmament talk looks to be going down the shiatter.

If treaties and coalitions mean nothing, because even the US and its drone army can't block the Russians, those who were relying on us will have no choice but to fend for themselves.
Which makes if even harder to get sanctions passed on nations currently flaunting international laws.
 
2014-03-13 03:52:52 PM  

way south: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

I'd say its Because the last thirty years of nuclear disarmament talk looks to be going down the shiatter.

If treaties and coalitions mean nothing, because even the US and its drone army can't block the Russians, those who were relying on us will have no choice but to fend for themselves.
Which makes if even harder to get sanctions passed on nations currently flaunting international laws.


You mean the treaty that isn't really much besides a scrap of paper? If I remember right, it promises we will take Ukraine's case to the UN Security Council. Guess who has a permanent veto on that council?

As to coalitions, Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And how does any of this make imposing sanctions any harder? You realize the US and the EU are both preparing to impose sanctions? And what if we get China to agree with us?

I'm sorry, but it's a simple truth. If you do not know what the correct move would be, it is impossible for you to know something is wrong. Mainly because if you don't know what is correct, you have nothing to judge wrongness by.
 
2014-03-13 03:55:44 PM  

grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?


Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.
 
2014-03-13 04:17:08 PM  

Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.


Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd starve.
 
2014-03-13 04:25:22 PM  

uber humper: Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.

Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd starve.

 
2014-03-13 04:28:03 PM  

Greylight: uber humper: Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.

Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd starve.


Now with comment goodness ....

Feel free to hurl ad hominem attacks to your hearts content, but if you had any intellectual bravery at all you would posit an opinion of your own, coward.
 
2014-03-13 04:36:33 PM  

grumpfuff: way south: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

I'd say its Because the last thirty years of nuclear disarmament talk looks to be going down the shiatter.

If treaties and coalitions mean nothing, because even the US and its drone army can't block the Russians, those who were relying on us will have no choice but to fend for themselves.
Which makes if even harder to get sanctions passed on nations currently flaunting international laws.

You mean the treaty that isn't really much besides a scrap of paper? If I remember right, it promises we will take Ukraine's case to the UN Security Council. Guess who has a permanent veto on that council?

As to coalitions, Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And how does any of this make imposing sanctions any harder? You realize the US and the EU are both preparing to impose sanctions? And what if we get China to agree with us?

I'm sorry, but it's a simple truth. If you do not know what the correct move would be, it is impossible for you to know something is wrong. Mainly because if you don ...


That's alot of fancy footwork to dance around the central problem: The Ukraine got invaded.

When theres someone elses soldiers are on your front lawn, you can consider the foreign policy up until now as being... less than stellar.
Since Ukraine's policy is to play along with the west's way of doing business, its a safe assumption that our theories about maintaining borders with soft power have yet to be proven very effective.
Since the situation is ongoing we can only wait to find out if the overall handling was merely bad or
catastrophically bad.


/Back in the day, Russians signed their agreements with deliveries of rifles, jets, and missiles.

/We offered paper with pretty stamps.
/So you can see why they were very influential during the cold war.
 
2014-03-13 04:41:54 PM  

Greylight: Greylight: uber humper: Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.

Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd starve.

Now with comment g ...


A liberal Canadian calling me a coward does hurt. What can be more of a coward than a liberal Canadian? Neutering yourself into a military is unable to protect its own borders. Canadian navy with 8,500 sailors? Ha. Yes, we still live in a world where a military is necessary. And you live the good life at the grace of  United States military financed by the citizens of the United States. Those are the facts, Jack.


You sould thank us more often.

Who would you rather be the world power? Russia? China?
 
2014-03-13 04:50:47 PM  

uber humper: Greylight: Greylight: uber humper: Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.

Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd starve.

Now wit ...


You still haven't managed to scrape together anything approaching an opinion on the Ukraine crisis.  It's evident you are just upset with some imagined slight to your patriotic pride.  Here's an easy one for you, don't you think it's ironic considering you are accusing others of not being able to make a decision?!

/ohsnap.jpg
 
2014-03-13 05:14:06 PM  

way south: That's alot of fancy footwork to dance around the central problem: The Ukraine got invaded.


Really? When? Last I heard there were just troops on the border.

way south: When theres someone elses soldiers are on your front lawn, you can consider the foreign policy up until now as being... less than stellar.
Since Ukraine's policy is to play along with the west's way of doing business, its a safe assumption that our theories about maintaining borders with soft power have yet to be proven very effective.
Since the situation is ongoing we can only wait to find out if the overall handling was merely bad or catastrophically bad.


Yea, the massive hit to the Russian economy so far, which would only worsen with upcoming sanctions if Putin doesn't back down, is totally not gonna hurt them at all. Putin may not care, but I bet his backers do.

Don't get me wrong. I do feel we should support Ukraine as best we can. However, I do not think we should go to war over it(nor do I think we will).
 
2014-03-13 06:27:20 PM  

way south: grumpfuff: way south: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

I'd say its Because the last thirty years of nuclear disarmament talk looks to be going down the shiatter.

If treaties and coalitions mean nothing, because even the US and its drone army can't block the Russians, those who were relying on us will have no choice but to fend for themselves.
Which makes if even harder to get sanctions passed on nations currently flaunting international laws.

You mean the treaty that isn't really much besides a scrap of paper? If I remember right, it promises we will take Ukraine's case to the UN Security Council. Guess who has a permanent veto on that council?

As to coalitions, Ukraine is not in NATO or the EU, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And how does any of this make imposing sanctions any harder? You realize the US and the EU are both preparing to impose sanctions? And what if we get China to agree with us?

I'm sorry, but it's a simple truth. If you do not know what the correct move would be, it is impossible for you to know something is wrong. Mainly because if you don ...

That's alot of fancy footwork to dance around the central problem: The Ukraine got invaded.

When theres someone elses soldiers are on your front lawn, you can consider the foreign policy up until now as being... less than stellar.
Since Ukraine's policy is to play along with the west's way of doing business, its a safe assumption that our theories about maintaining borders with soft power have yet to be proven very effective.
Since the situation is ongoing we can only wait to find out if the overall handling was merely bad or catastrophically bad.


/Back in the day, Russians signed their agreements with deliveries of rifles, jets, and missiles.
/We offered paper with pretty stamps.
/So you can see why they were very influential during the cold war.


The Russians lost the cold war.
 
2014-03-13 06:58:45 PM  

Greylight: uber humper: Greylight: Greylight: uber humper: Greylight: grumpfuff: uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: tinfoil-hat maggie: grumpfuff: So is this gonna be another "OBAMA WEAK WW3 COMING NUKE RUSSIA!!!" thread where people loudly proclaim they have no understanding of international relations?

Oh, I think it's funny how many people want war with Russia over Ukraine.

/Not really haha funny but sad funny.

It's not that people want war. But to deal with aggressors you got to put your foot down, or they will be harder to handle in the future.  Putin is taking advantage of the situation (weak western leaders) becuse he knows he can.

And we should do...what, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that.  But that doesn't mean we're handling it correctly.

Next up: Russia's neighbors get scared, knowing the west doesn't have their back, and want to arm themselves with nukes. Ukraine already regretting giving up theirs.

If you don't know what we should be doing, how can you say what we're doing is wrong?

Manifest Destiny - God is on our side and has ordained that US interests should dictate who Ukrainians "choose" to elect.  It's wrong because the outcome does not look like we want it too.  We do know for a fact that Russian influence is bad, and US influence is good.  What is so hard to understand about that?   Oh, are you one of those idealists that thinks Ukrainians should be able to decide for themselves without external influence?  Well, to be honest I am in the same boat as you, but there is a game of real politick being played with the lives and future of the Ukrainian people here, and neither of the major players is doing so with the best interests of Ukraine as a priority over their own national interests.

Spewing nonsense like that, I wouldn't be surprised it you're employed by the Obama administration. With that play-doh you call a mind, you'll never be able to make a decision about anything.  Without assistance, or an employer who values bullshiat, you'd sta ...



It looks the administration might be doing something.  Lets hope they don't overreact. http://washingtonexaminer.com/john-kerry-russia-has-until-monday-to-r e verse-course-in-ukraine/article/2545610


BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc. But I can see that Putin is walking around doing as he pleases.  We elect the best and the brightest to handle these affairs, someday we will be able to look back we can see if Obama did well.  It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world. It will be interesting to see what Kerry's deadline entails.  I have a feeling Monday will come and go.

 
2014-03-13 08:13:25 PM  

uber humper: BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc.


uber humper: It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world.


So, you have no idea what needs to be done, but you know Obama isn't doing it?

Yea, that seems like it's totally an independent thought and not based on anything else.
 
2014-03-13 08:25:12 PM  

grumpfuff: uber humper: BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc.

uber humper: It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world.

So, you have no idea what needs to be done, but you know Obama isn't doing it?

Yea, that seems like it's totally an independent thought and not based on anything else.


Based to Putin's actions, you dope
 
2014-03-13 09:49:03 PM  
uber humper: BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc. But I can see that Putin is walking around doing as he pleases.  We elect the best and the brightest to handle these affairs, someday we will be able to look back we can see if Obama did well.  It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world. It will be interesting to see what Kerry's deadline entails.  I have a feeling Monday will come and go.

Thank you.  Not sure where to start but I know you wanted to hear me say that, and I do mean it, so thank you.  I'm sorry for the earlier snark.   I live in a community that was settled by many eastern European people, and married into a Ukrainian family.  I have family that serve in the US military, the Canadian, and British, a long family history of doing so.  I'm proud of my family and their service, just as I am sure you are of your families and friends.  We can also separate our pride from the politics, and for their sake it is our duty to do so.

I know this is just another random Fark argument thread, and I doubt you expected this sort of reply but I do have a request of you, a favor for the thanks if you please.  Work with me for just a moment with an analogy to see why I get angry over the war drums.  Imagine the US and Canada in conflict for whatever reason and any other outside military influence being drawn in.  I would rather see Canada annexed bloodlessly by my aggressive big brother then see my country destroyed by war.   Can you not see the truth of that and at the same time see the truth of the fact that I would never otherwise submit to US dominance?  There are factions that would see the country burn to further their own interests, but those are not truly interested in saving the country.

Ten years a liter ... time to put down the flamethrower.  Peace.
 
2014-03-13 10:25:35 PM  

Greylight: uber humper: BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc. But I can see that Putin is walking around doing as he pleases.  We elect the best and the brightest to handle these affairs, someday we will be able to look back we can see if Obama did well.  It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world. It will be interesting to see what Kerry's deadline entails.  I have a feeling Monday will come and go.

Thank you.  Not sure where to start but I know you wanted to hear me say that, and I do mean it, so thank you.  I'm sorry for the earlier snark.   I live in a community that was settled by many eastern European people, and married into a Ukrainian family.  I have family that serve in the US military, the Canadian, and British, a long family history of doing so.  I'm proud of my family and their service, just as I am sure you are of your families and friends.  We can also separate our pride from the politics, and for their sake it is our duty to do so.

I know this is just another random Fark argument thread, and I doubt you expected this sort of reply but I do have a request of you, a favor for the thanks if you please.  Work with me for just a moment with an analogy to see why I get angry over the war drums.  Imagine the US and Canada in conflict for whatever reason and any other outside military influence being drawn in.  I would rather see Canada annexed bloodlessly by my aggressive big brother then see my country destroyed by war.   Can you not see the truth of that and at the same time see the truth of the fact that I would never otherwise submit to US dominance?  There are factions that would see the country burn to further their own interests, but those are not truly interested in saving the country.

Ten years a liter ... time to put down the flamethrower.  Peace.


Thanks for the reply, brother.
 
2014-03-14 09:39:39 AM  

uber humper: grumpfuff: uber humper: BTW, I don't have have a plan. I don't have the experience, the inside knowlege of troop & ship locations, relationships with foreign governements, etc.

uber humper: It doesn't seem like he is fit to be the leader of the free world.

So, you have no idea what needs to be done, but you know Obama isn't doing it?

Yea, that seems like it's totally an independent thought and not based on anything else.

Based to Putin's actions, you dope


That still doesn't explain a single thing. He's been doing the exact same thing since the start of this. Nothing has changed. He's still talking a good game, he's still saying what he will do, but he hasn't actually done anything new.

So let's try something different. At what point in the last several weeks did Obama mess up, how do Putin's actions show this, and what should Obama have done differently?
 
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