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(Marketwatch)   The price of copper, for years an indicator of the health of the overall global economy, has collapsed in recent weeks as China's economic shiat is about to hit the fan   (blogs.marketwatch.com) divider line 49
    More: Scary, global economy, foundations, industrial metal, futures contracts, hard landing  
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2774 clicks; posted to Business » on 13 Mar 2014 at 1:16 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-12 11:23:24 PM  
The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.
 
2014-03-12 11:34:27 PM  

Voiceofreason01: The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.


QFT
 
2014-03-12 11:39:44 PM  
Or maybe they've advanced beyond the need for copper based technology...
 
2014-03-12 11:47:40 PM  
Who wants to take on my bet that Fox will blame this all on the fact that it's a solar energy company?
 
2014-03-12 11:54:59 PM  

RanDomino: Who wants to take on my bet that Fox will blame this all on the fact that it's a solar energy company?


And furthermore, Obama
 
2014-03-13 12:33:52 AM  

Voiceofreason01: The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.


Sounds like Wall Street.
 
2014-03-13 12:50:44 AM  
... this is the panic of me. Oh wait there is not this.
 
2014-03-13 12:52:44 AM  
You don't happen to own any d'Anconia Copper stock, do you?
 
2014-03-13 01:24:19 AM  
Looks like I picked a bad week to quit building rail guns.
 
2014-03-13 01:26:19 AM  

Voiceofreason01: The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.


I see what you did there.
 
2014-03-13 01:26:45 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Looks like I picked a bad week to quit building rail guns.


There's never a bad time for massively destructive weapons.
 
2014-03-13 01:30:44 AM  

hardinparamedic: Marcus Aurelius: Looks like I picked a bad week to quit building rail guns.

There's never a bad time for massively destructive weapons.


Especially considering the price of copper!  Now add some health care guarantees on top of that, and you've got yourself a bleeding profitable business.

But you already knew that, you see it day in and day out.
 
2014-03-13 01:35:35 AM  
What does this mean for my jar of pennies?
 
2014-03-13 01:36:35 AM  
Can we not pay back our loans to China when they do collapse?  The total reset button of the economy would probably be a good thing.
 
2014-03-13 01:43:25 AM  

JRoo: What does this mean for my jar of pennies?


Eat the pennies!
 
2014-03-13 01:44:54 AM  

Voiceofreason01: The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.


The short version is that a good portion of the copper in China is used as collateral and sits in warehouses. Now that China's zombie corporations can't kick the can down the road anymore, these financing deals are going to start to evaporate and the copper is going to have to hit the market.
 
2014-03-13 02:03:33 AM  
Well, this means the tweakers won't be cutting down power lines and electrocuting themselves anymore.
That's a good thing, isn't it....
 
2014-03-13 02:10:47 AM  
I remember reading a few stories about large companies hoarding metal (like aluminum and copper) last year.  They captured a huge amount of what was available and were creating artificial shortages which drove up prices and then charged a premium on top of that for delivery within a reasonable time frame.

one example:

http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/22/these-commodities-traders-are-hoa rd ing-copper-for-the-ultimate-profit-play/
 
2014-03-13 02:50:00 AM  

Kurmudgeon: Well, this means the tweakers won't be cutting down power lines and electrocuting themselves anymore.


I have no problem at all with idiots who steal power cables being electrocuted.
 
2014-03-13 02:56:29 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Kurmudgeon: Well, this means the tweakers won't be cutting down power lines and electrocuting themselves anymore.

I have no problem at all with idiots who steal power cables being electrocuted.


Job security.
 
2014-03-13 02:57:20 AM  

gfid: I remember reading a few stories about large companies hoarding metal (like aluminum and copper) last year.  They captured a huge amount of what was available and were creating artificial shortages which drove up prices and then charged a premium on top of that for delivery within a reasonable time frame.

one example:

http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/22/these-commodities-traders-are-hoa rd ing-copper-for-the-ultimate-profit-play/


When that's done with silver, we call it "Warren Buffeting".
 
2014-03-13 03:37:18 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: JRoo: What does this mean for my jar of pennies?

Eat the pennies!


Might as well stick them up your ass.
 
2014-03-13 05:10:13 AM  

gfid: I remember reading a few stories about large companies hoarding metal (like aluminum and copper) last year.  They captured a huge amount of what was available and were creating artificial shortages which drove up prices and then charged a premium on top of that for delivery within a reasonable time frame.

one example:

http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/22/these-commodities-traders-are-hoa rd ing-copper-for-the-ultimate-profit-play/


Goldamn Sachs and Morgan Stanley were doing this with aluminum in Detroit. They would ship the metal back and forth between a set of warehouses located in Detroit. Cue Detroit joke.

The problem, as described in The Times by David Kocieniewski, is that since the bank entered this business, the time it takes buyers to get the metal from those warehouses has shot up to more than 16 months, from 6 weeks. Goldman has attributed the delays to a shortage of trucks and forklift drivers. But Goldman also pays incentives to owners of the metal to keep it in the bank's warehouses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-aluminum-pi le .html
 
2014-03-13 05:55:38 AM  

dsmith42: gfid: I remember reading a few stories about large companies hoarding metal (like aluminum and copper) last year.  They captured a huge amount of what was available and were creating artificial shortages which drove up prices and then charged a premium on top of that for delivery within a reasonable time frame.

one example:

http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/22/these-commodities-traders-are-hoa rd ing-copper-for-the-ultimate-profit-play/

Goldamn Sachs and Morgan Stanley were doing this with aluminum in Detroit. They would ship the metal back and forth between a set of warehouses located in Detroit. Cue Detroit joke.

The problem, as described in The Times by David Kocieniewski, is that since the bank entered this business, the time it takes buyers to get the metal from those warehouses has shot up to more than 16 months, from 6 weeks. Goldman has attributed the delays to a shortage of trucks and forklift drivers. But Goldman also pays incentives to owners of the metal to keep it in the bank's warehouses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/goldman-sachss-aluminum-pi le .html


Didn't read gfid's article yet, but I think the scheme is alleged to be similar in copper, although copper warehouses seemed to be less concentrated than the ones for aluminum.  The major copper warehouse is in New Orleans, if memory serves.

The incentives on the aluminum storage help, but they didn't seem to be large enough to really cause the issue.  I'm guessing what probably incentivizes the delays from the traders' side -- not Goldman, but the guys who actually own the metal -- is that the warehousing delays drive up the spot prices, so the bankers win with more rents and the traders win with higher prices once the stuff actually trickles out of the warehouses.

The Times articles were a bit confusing to me.  They seemed to be suggesting that Goldman had built a kind of shadow warehousing sector outside the control of the London Metal Exchange (and thereby draining LME warehouses), but then the whole deal about moving the aluminum from warehouse to warehouse was based on LME rules.
 
2014-03-13 06:11:08 AM  

relaxitsjustme: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: JRoo: What does this mean for my jar of penises?

Eat the penises!

Might as well stick them up your ass.


Fixed for my amusement.

I really am a 12 year old at heart.
 
2014-03-13 06:18:48 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Kurmudgeon: Well, this means the tweakers won't be cutting down power lines and electrocuting themselves anymore.

I have no problem at all with idiots who steal power cables being electrocuted.


At least with the whole tweakers being electrocuted part.

Yes, I'm still pissed at being forced through "MethCheck" to buy my decongestant, why do you ask?
 
2014-03-13 06:54:34 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: hardinparamedic: Marcus Aurelius: Looks like I picked a bad week to quit building rail guns.

There's never a bad time for massively destructive weapons.

Especially considering the price of copper!  Now add some health care guarantees on top of that, and you've got yourself a bleeding profitable business.

But you already knew that, you see it day in and day out.


I like the cut of your jib. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?
 
2014-03-13 07:01:22 AM  

AngryDragon: ImpendingCynic: Kurmudgeon: Well, this means the tweakers won't be cutting down power lines and electrocuting themselves anymore.

I have no problem at all with idiots who steal power cables being electrocuted.

At least with the whole tweakers being electrocuted part.

Yes, I'm still pissed at being forced through "MethCheck" to buy my decongestant, why do you ask?


That's a Patriot Act thing.
You must not be a Patriot if you complain about it.

/I keed. I hate that shiat too.
 
2014-03-13 07:12:18 AM  
I'm sticking with copper. When the entire economy collapses we'll be back to the bronze age, and I'll be rich.
 
2014-03-13 07:55:45 AM  
Why scary? I think a global economic collapse would be a good thing, especially if it leads to the 6.99 billion of us smashing the estates of the other .01 billion.
 
2014-03-13 07:58:53 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-13 08:52:45 AM  

Voiceofreason01: The short SHORT version: the whole thing is built on fear and speculation far more than actual facts.


So another day on the market, then?

/Sell, Mortimer, sell!
 
2014-03-13 09:26:10 AM  
You can't predict the market. If there was one indicator of the market that anyone knew about, they would be filthy rich. As in, "make Warren Buffet look like a rookie" rich.
 
2014-03-13 09:47:39 AM  
That's good news for me.

I hvae a large bin of unstripped copper wire that I've been procrastinating on for years. I'm forwarding this article to the wife and kicking it down the road even further.
 
2014-03-13 09:50:41 AM  
So, a copper collapser caper then?

img.fark.net
 
2014-03-13 09:58:04 AM  
God I hope copper does not crash.  I have two major manufacturers of heavy trucks in my area.  Copper goes down and my area suffers.
 
2014-03-13 10:32:35 AM  

mat catastrophe: Why scary? I think a global economic collapse would be a good thing, especially if it leads to the 6.99 1.11 billion of us smashing the estates of the other .01 billion  .01 million.


Fixed that for you.
 
2014-03-13 12:19:39 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Or maybe they've advanced beyond the need for copper based technology...


Don't read the article, just make random claims.
 
2014-03-13 12:51:21 PM  

spawn73: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Or maybe they've advanced beyond the need for copper based technology...

Don't read the article, just make random claims.


OH NO! SOME GUY SAID SOMETHING NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY IN A FARK THREAD!

/seriously?
 
2014-03-13 01:31:24 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: spawn73: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Or maybe they've advanced beyond the need for copper based technology...

Don't read the article, just make random claims.

OH NO! SOME GUY SAID SOMETHING NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY IN A FARK THREAD!

/seriously?


images.encyclopediadramatica.es
 
2014-03-13 01:49:55 PM  

WordsnCollision: So, a copper collapser caper then?

[img.fark.net image 480x360]


If I ever catch kleptomaniac Claude Cooper from Cleveland who collapsed my clean copper clappers I kept in the closet...
 
2014-03-13 03:47:40 PM  
How much does the price have to drop to go back to the days before fuzzy-faced drug addicts are stealing the pipes and phone wiring out of my neighbor's foreclosed house?
 
2014-03-13 06:14:56 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: JRoo: What does this mean for my jar of pennies?

Eat the pennies!

Might as well stick them up your ass.


came here for this. never touch pennies. they have been in someones ass. for sure.
 
2014-03-13 06:38:54 PM  

some_beer_drinker: relaxitsjustme: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: JRoo: What does this mean for my jar of pennies?

Eat the pennies!

Might as well stick them up your ass.

came here for this. never touch pennies. they have been in someones ass. for sure.


Maybe it was Jenna Haze's? You didn't think of that did you?
 
2014-03-13 06:51:52 PM  
Looks like it's time to lay off most of my copper theft ring. Tomorrow's going to be a pretty rough day at the office.
 
2014-03-13 07:34:00 PM  

Saiga410: God I hope copper does not crash.  I have two major manufacturers of heavy trucks in my area.  Copper goes down and my area suffers.


Do they manufacture heavy trucks using copper, or do they manufacture heavy trucks for copper mining? It could be good for some, miniature American flags bad for others.
 
2014-03-13 08:17:31 PM  

spawn73: MaudlinMutantMollusk: spawn73: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Or maybe they've advanced beyond the need for copper based technology...

Don't read the article, just make random claims.

OH NO! SOME GUY SAID SOMETHING NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY IN A FARK THREAD!

/seriously?

[images.encyclopediadramatica.es image 210x349]


If you thought he was serious about advancing beyond copper technology, the problem is with you.
 
2014-03-13 08:33:48 PM  
*thinks about buying more copper sheet at teh hobby shop on payday*
 
2014-03-14 12:44:06 AM  

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Can we not pay back our loans to China when they do collapse?  The total reset button of the economy would probably be a good thing.


What the Chinese will need to bring their Yuan in to exchange for dollars when the fecal matter hits the rotating oscillator.

krisdedecker.typepad.com
 
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