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(Rolling Stone)   Old Man reaches $800,000 Kickstarter goal in just one day   (rollingstone.com) divider line 86
    More: Spiffy, Neil Young, David Crosby, suggested retail price, Bruce Springsteen, memory cards  
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6451 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 12 Mar 2014 at 6:27 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-12 04:18:36 PM
this thing looks really promising - but i'm concerned about the tiny amount of storage.
 
2014-03-12 04:23:50 PM
Why the f*ck does Neil Young need a Kickstarter?
 
2014-03-12 04:34:21 PM

Shostie: Why the f*ck does Neil Young need a Kickstarter?


To help those of us in the free world to keep in rockin'!
 
2014-03-12 04:55:31 PM
that's quite a roster of a-list stars he got to endorse the thing!
 
2014-03-12 05:13:13 PM
Why would an old ass rock star who is most likely a millionaire several times over start a Kickstarter?
 
2014-03-12 05:14:12 PM
Compressed music doth sucketh.
 
2014-03-12 05:16:30 PM

Mugato: Why would an old ass rock star who is most likely a millionaire several times over start a Kickstarter?


i'm guessing that he doesn't want to risk his personal fortune on this venture. it's not like he's raising money to fund a new musical project. this is a business.
 
2014-03-12 05:19:53 PM

FlashHarry: Mugato: Why would an old ass rock star who is most likely a millionaire several times over start a Kickstarter?

i'm guessing that he doesn't want to risk his personal fortune on this venture. it's not like he's raising money to fund a new musical project. this is a business.


Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith in the venture.
 
2014-03-12 05:31:14 PM

Mugato: Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith in the venture.


sooo... companies that go public don't have faith in their ventures?

raising money to start a business is as american as apple pie.
 
2014-03-12 05:35:35 PM

Mugato: FlashHarry: Mugato: Why would an old ass rock star who is most likely a millionaire several times over start a Kickstarter?

i'm guessing that he doesn't want to risk his personal fortune on this venture. it's not like he's raising money to fund a new musical project. this is a business.

Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith in the venture.


Why put out your own money when you can get others to do it instead? They get the money up front to lessen the risk while increasing the reward. If they put up their own money and it bombs they are sitting on a lot of product. However if they get all the money up front the can do a run or two fully paid. So if it still bombs they haven't lost as much and aren't stuck with unsold product. I'm sure with enough orders the price per will go down as well increasing profit margins. Also this gets lots of advertising for free.
 
2014-03-12 05:50:04 PM
Only in America can people be enticed to give a rich dude money for his business.

What a country!
 
2014-03-12 05:56:29 PM

FlashHarry: this thing looks really promising - but i'm concerned about the tiny amount of storage.


1-2,000 songs is tiny?
 
2014-03-12 05:58:51 PM

fusillade762: FlashHarry: this thing looks really promising - but i'm concerned about the tiny amount of storage.

1-2,000 songs is tiny?


compared to the number you can store in an iPod, yes. at high resolution, these files are 100 MB or more each, compared to a 4-10 MB AAC or MP3 file. now, maybe that's a small price to pay for quality. i just wish you could have your cake and eat it too.
 
2014-03-12 06:31:47 PM
Suck it, upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-03-12 06:38:18 PM

FlashHarry: Mugato: Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith in the venture.

sooo... companies that go public don't have faith in their ventures?

raising money to start a business, then creating mass chaos in the economy to rob millions of people billions of dollars is as american as apple pie.


FTFM
 
2014-03-12 06:41:09 PM

Shostie: Why the f*ck does Neil Young need a Kickstarter?


Honestly because getting something like this funded with regular partners can at best be a PITA and worst be a complete showstopper.  Neil could start with the idea for his Pono, and would end up with a $10 Chinese knock-off of an iPod with some bizarre proprietary format and "Store".

This way in theory he maintains a lot more control to create a device that he would want (and frankly I sorta want one too).

I don't really buy into the idea that people who *should* have good connections shouldn't use Kickstarter.  There was a time that I felt that way but no longer.  Backlash against people like Zach Braff and Neil Young was my first reaction too, but then I started to realize the very reason we all complain about the poopy quality of music and products is because good ideas have to be filtered through a rancid cheese-cloth of MBA grads before you see any given product.  Kickstarter circumvents that process.  Sometimes the results are garbage, but there have been enough times with this method now where the results are well worth at least gambling with (as I look over at my stomach churning Oculus).
 
2014-03-12 06:42:05 PM
I'd like to see real HD video for once in my life, instead of all of the blocky, compressed shiat.
Does Neil ever watch the TeeVee?
 
2014-03-12 06:43:24 PM
The player itself looks terrible.

I can't imagine the GUI is going to be that good either.

Apple nailed the GUI and player design.

Are Pono files different than other digital files?  How so?

This thing is going to need to sound like heaven on earth, and I'm not convinced by the line up of rock stars there.

We need some audiophile nerds to examine this thing, ASAP.
 
2014-03-12 06:43:43 PM

Mugato: Why would an old ass rock star who is most likely a millionaire several times over start a Kickstarter?


Because people were eager and desperate to throw him 800,000$ as quickly as possible?

Why would I outlay any of my personal wealth when I can crowd fund from strangers, and if it fails, never be out a single dime, while if it succeeds I give them product they were going to buy anyway at an insane markup.
 
2014-03-12 06:46:46 PM

Glitchwerks: Are Pono files different than other digital files? How so?


they are not. pono just plays existing audio formats. the one thing about pono is that it has a little light on it that will ostensibly light up when you are listening to one of the least compressed formats so you will 'know' when you're getting pono approved sound quality.

so basically they are selling a generic music player with a placebo attached to it
 
2014-03-12 06:47:06 PM
I always mouse over links before I click them and I swore it said Neil Young reaches 800000 porno kickstarter.
 
2014-03-12 06:51:44 PM
He's harvesting money like a crazy horse

/I'm really not good at this
 
2014-03-12 06:52:34 PM
I don't know, I heard it was a piece of crap.

/PIECE OF CRAP!
 
2014-03-12 06:53:01 PM
How is this not a violation of Kickstarter's rules?
i62.tinypic.com

Hardware and Product Design guidelines
Show your work
Projects must be clear about their state of development, and cannot be presented as preorders of finished products. Projects must show details (photos, videos, sketches) of their progress so far, along with a prototype demonstrating the product's current functionality. Projects must explain how the final design is likely to differ from the prototype, and include a production plan (i.e., how you're going to make it) and an estimated timeline.
No product simulations or photorealistic renderings
Technical drawings, CAD designs, sketches, and other parts of the design process are awesome and encouraged. Photorealistic renderings and simulations that could be mistaken for finished products or real events, however, are not allowed.
 
2014-03-12 06:57:10 PM
FTFA: The player, which has a suggested retail price of $399, will contain 128 gigabytes of memory and can store between 1,000 and 2,000 high-resolution songs, depending on the resolution and length of the recording. The device will also accept memory cards, which can hold more music and playlists.

At 2000 songs, that is about 70 megs a song, the filesize of a seven minute song in WAV format.  What is the advantage of this format over WAV which is also lossless and not proprietary?

This is going to bomb. I don't want it to, I love the idea of lossless audio, but portable digital music players should have started out with lossless formats.  No one is going to want to switch from their MP3 players (if people even still use these), and I just can't see people spending $400 on a single-purpose device when the phone in their pocket that can already play lossless audio files.
 
2014-03-12 07:03:38 PM

Dragonflew: This is going to bomb. I don't want it to, I love the idea of lossless audio, but portable digital music players should have started out with lossless formats.  No one is going to want to switch from their MP3 players (if people even still use these), and I just can't see people spending $400 on a single-purpose device when the phone in their pocket that can already play lossless audio files.


You're not going to get mass acceptance for lossless on digital players until Apple allows FLAC in iTunes and on iPods.

FLAC has the best compression out there.  Apple's own ALAC doesn't come close.

tlchwi02: they are not. pono just plays existing audio formats. the one thing about pono is that it has a little light on it that will ostensibly light up when you are listening to one of the least compressed formats so you will 'know' when you're getting pono approved sound quality.

so basically they are selling a generic music player with a placebo attached to it


Oh, so this is basically the Monster Cable of audio players.
 
2014-03-12 07:07:11 PM

Dragonflew: FTFA: The player, which has a suggested retail price of $399, will contain 128 gigabytes of memory and can store between 1,000 and 2,000 high-resolution songs, depending on the resolution and length of the recording. The device will also accept memory cards, which can hold more music and playlists.

At 2000 songs, that is about 70 megs a song, the filesize of a seven minute song in WAV format.  What is the advantage of this format over WAV which is also lossless and not proprietary?

This is going to bomb. I don't want it to, I love the idea of lossless audio, but portable digital music players should have started out with lossless formats.  No one is going to want to switch from their MP3 players (if people even still use these), and I just can't see people spending $400 on a single-purpose device when the phone in their pocket that can already play lossless audio files.


plenty of ppl will by this.
ppl with money to burn...
parents that have to buy their little snowflake the latest gadget...
etc..
put an apple logo on it and they wont be able to make enough of them.
 
2014-03-12 07:07:21 PM
I will never buy one. I just don't see anything unique that the player does.
 
2014-03-12 07:11:41 PM
Audiophiles will buy any farking thing.. Dipshiats..
 
2014-03-12 07:16:02 PM

phantomht: Dragonflew: FTFA: The player, which has a suggested retail price of $399, will contain 128 gigabytes of memory and can store between 1,000 and 2,000 high-resolution songs, depending on the resolution and length of the recording. The device will also accept memory cards, which can hold more music and playlists.

At 2000 songs, that is about 70 megs a song, the filesize of a seven minute song in WAV format.  What is the advantage of this format over WAV which is also lossless and not proprietary?

This is going to bomb. I don't want it to, I love the idea of lossless audio, but portable digital music players should have started out with lossless formats.  No one is going to want to switch from their MP3 players (if people even still use these), and I just can't see people spending $400 on a single-purpose device when the phone in their pocket that can already play lossless audio files.

plenty of ppl will by this.
ppl with money to burn...
parents that have to buy their little snowflake the latest gadget...
etc..
put an apple logo on it and they wont be able to make enough of them.


iPod sales are dropping by roughly 30% per year now that smartphones can do everything the iPod can. Even that shiny Apple logo is not enough to save the dying iPod. I don't know a single person who still carries a music player if they have a smartphone.
 
2014-03-12 07:16:55 PM

styckx: Audiophiles will buy any farking thing.. Dipshiats..


Audiophiles will have no interest in this. It does not have wooden volume knobs or danceable headphone cables.
 
2014-03-12 07:21:02 PM
What would be this difference between this and what my cell phone can do?
 
2014-03-12 07:25:55 PM

WillofJ2: What would be this difference between this and what my cell phone can do?


If your phone can play FLAC, nothing. There are no new file formats in play here, they're just FLAC files.
 
2014-03-12 07:33:40 PM
Well I'm jealous.  My kickstarter looks like it ain't gonna happen unless a miracle occurs.  Too bad I didn't think to include celebrity endorsement...
 
2014-03-12 07:35:14 PM

Dragonflew: WillofJ2: What would be this difference between this and what my cell phone can do?

If your phone can play FLAC, nothing. There are no new file formats in play here, they're just FLAC files.


and if your phones media player does not play FLAC nativly, there are Apps that do.. at least on Android I use Rocket music player myself
 
2014-03-12 07:41:32 PM
wow, I can't wait to buy this and listen to all these cool songs the way they were meant to be heard!

signed,

listens to music on mass transit via my shiatty $20 Skullcandy earbugs dude
 
2014-03-12 07:41:43 PM

Shostie: Why the f*ck does Neil Young need a Kickstarter?


Celebrity Net Worth claims he is worth $65 million. I don;t know how accurate that is, but it must be a lot.

I wonder if Kick Starter is being used in this way for advertising/spreading the word, knowing that they are going to make the goal anyway with Neil Young behind it.


kungfumidget: Well I'm jealous.  My kickstarter looks like it ain't gonna happen unless a miracle occurs.  Too bad I didn't think to include celebrity endorsement...


Post a link so we can check it out.
 
2014-03-12 07:47:38 PM
More barn!
 
2014-03-12 07:51:00 PM
People can do whatever they want with their money and that's the great thing about Kickstarter, but I just don't understand on a personal level why anyone would want to throw money at people who are already wealthy.  I understand why Neil Young would want to use it, I just don't get people supporting these ventures.  I guess I've always seen Kickstarter as a way for people without money or connections to get people to help them make something that they normally wouldn't have the opportunity to do.  Now it just seems like a get rich/richer quick scheme and shameless self-promotion for people who don't need it while the little guy goes back to being ignored.

It reminds me of those stories you hear every once in awhile where non-homeless people beg for change on the street every day then go back to their mansions.  Meanwhile the other homeless people begging who didn't get that dollar the rich person took go back to their cardboard box.

/I'm sure someone will be here in a second to flame me or disagree with this assuming anyone bothered to read it of course.
 
2014-03-12 07:54:12 PM
So it's like a Walkman or iPod but with "high definition" music?

GTFO.
 
2014-03-12 07:56:07 PM

Shostie: Why the f*ck does Neil Young need a Kickstarter?


Maybe he's a fan of Penny Arcade.
 
2014-03-12 07:57:46 PM

PillsHere: People can do whatever they want with their money and that's the great thing about Kickstarter, but I just don't understand on a personal level why anyone would want to throw money at people who are already wealthy.  I understand why Neil Young would want to use it, I just don't get people supporting these ventures.  I guess I've always seen Kickstarter as a way for people without money or connections to get people to help them make something that they normally wouldn't have the opportunity to do.  Now it just seems like a get rich/richer quick scheme and shameless self-promotion for people who don't need it while the little guy goes back to being ignored.

It reminds me of those stories you hear every once in awhile where non-homeless people beg for change on the street every day then go back to their mansions.  Meanwhile the other homeless people begging who didn't get that dollar the rich person took go back to their cardboard box.

/I'm sure someone will be here in a second to flame me or disagree with this assuming anyone bothered to read it of course.


it's nice to know that people are interested in your product before you go ahead and produce it, wasting a ton of money. that's the long and short of it.
 
2014-03-12 08:05:21 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-12 08:06:55 PM
I tried to plug in it
I tried to turn it on
When I got it home
It was a piece of crap
 
2014-03-12 08:09:59 PM

Mugato: Sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith in the venture.


You always start a business with someone else's money if you can. That's not a lack of faith, it's just common sense, and it's something successful business people do every day. No reason to lay out your own cash if you can secure investors to lay out theirs.
 
2014-03-12 08:10:12 PM
No mention of Waging Heavy Peace in the thread, huh? He returns to the subject of Pono a fair amount in his book. It's been in one developmental stage or another for quite some time. He talks a good bit about his problems with digital formats and how he hopes to make a better sounding alternative to what's been available. Interesting and entertaining read, lots of great anecdotal stuff.

Regarding the financing of this, I get the impression he's put more than a little of his money into this already, along with quite a few other ventures over the years.
 
2014-03-12 08:20:20 PM
He even got a bunch of other rich guys to "endorse" the service so saps are more willing to shoulder the cost of his business.
It really angers me to see celebrities and other rich assholes abusing Kickstarter like this. It angers me more that people are donating for the right to be sold a product.
 
2014-03-12 08:23:41 PM
Neil Young has a reasonably sized and very loyal fan base.  They respect him, and the trajectory his career has taken.  How many artists his age do you know that can tour constantly, playing to good sized crowds, (and mostly playing brand new music--no greatest hits tours for this guy) regardless of being with an ever changing band, with Crazy Horse, with CSNY, or as a solo performer?  No one was forced to throw money at him, but I'm sure thousands of his fans jumped at the chance. It's not like Neil just decided high quality audio is important to him, he's been very passionate about it for years.  I won't be camping out waiting for the PONO release, but I will definitely check it out when it's available.
 
2014-03-12 08:26:35 PM

jj325:   I won't be camping out waiting for the PONO release, but I will definitely check it out when it's available.


Play a FLAC file on your smartphone, it is exactly the same without the branding.
 
2014-03-12 08:28:38 PM

Dragonflew: This is going to bomb. I don't want it to, I love the idea of lossless audio, but portable digital music players should have started out with lossless formats.  No one is going to want to switch from their MP3 players (if people even still use these), and I just can't see people spending $400 on a single-purpose device when the phone in their pocket that can already play lossless audio files.


They're overestimating a niche market, exponentially.

If we were talking about some little shop handling the media and maybe some sort of PCMCIA or lossless player that rigged into a tube preamp.....eh.....then he'd have enough fingers in enough pies to get the numbers up there.

But the fact remains that "audiophiles who absolutely need to spend more money" is his only real market.  No one is going to replace their iPod with this.  No one is going to cancel their Pandora or Spotify over this.  And largely no one is going to stop buying CD's over this.

I like Neil.  I respect Neil.  I consider Neil to be one of my favorite musicians.  But he's overestimating the market something brutal.
 
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