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(Headlines & Global News)   In this house, we obey the third law of thermodynamics. Wait, which was that one again?   (hngn.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, third law of thermodynamics, magnetic moments, Absolute Zero, Nature Communications, magnetic monopoles  
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3925 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Mar 2014 at 5:19 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-03-12 03:41:23 PM  
But I was told laws can't be broken.

That's it. I'm becoming a creationist.
 
2014-03-12 04:40:29 PM  
"proving the Third Law of Thermodynamic was restored. "

It was lost?
 
2014-03-12 05:22:23 PM  
img.fark.net

In this house, we follow the laws of thermodynamics!
 
2014-03-12 05:23:12 PM  

Caffienatedjedi: [img.fark.net image 500x375]

In this house, we follow the laws of thermodynamics!


Derp, I just realised I didn't even read OP. I am out of it today, but we still needed the picture.
 
2014-03-12 05:23:25 PM  
Thanks for linking to a click-whore site instead of the actual article.
 
2014-03-12 05:28:33 PM  
Forget the possible computing applications (can't believe I just type that) think of the transportation uses for monopoles. We could finally have hoverboards and flying Deloreans!
 
2014-03-12 05:32:30 PM  
Let me just summarize the article: spin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin icespin ice
 
2014-03-12 05:41:25 PM  
Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!
 
2014-03-12 05:44:59 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!


Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?
 
2014-03-12 05:47:59 PM  

Mikey1969: Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!

Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?


Basically, what they're saying is "The magnetic meta-material known as "spin ice" doesn't reach 0 energy at absolute zero, and this has potential applications, such as monopoles."
 
2014-03-12 05:49:07 PM  
The research was published in Nature Communications.

And then it was run through the blender, digested by a four year old, eaten by a stray dog, and then regurgitated by hngn.com
 
2014-03-12 05:51:45 PM  

doglover: Mikey1969: Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!

Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?

Basically, what they're saying is "The magnetic meta-material known as "spin ice" doesn't reach 0 energy at absolute zero, and this has potential applications, such as monopoles."


Jesus, that's far better than what they presented. Thank you. I can follow that and don't feel like I got in a brawl with Sarah Palin in the process.
 
2014-03-12 05:54:13 PM  

Mikey1969: doglover: Mikey1969: Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!

Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?

Basically, what they're saying is "The magnetic meta-material known as "spin ice" doesn't reach 0 energy at absolute zero, and this has potential applications, such as monopoles."

Jesus, that's far better than what they presented. Thank you. I can follow that and don't feel like I got in a brawl with Sarah Palin in the process.


That might be 0 entropy. I made a typo.

But after the brain injuries I got from reading that tripe, can you blame me?
 
2014-03-12 05:58:20 PM  

scottydoesntknow: But I was told laws can't be broken.

That's it. I'm becoming a creationist.


Thermodynamics are statistical laws.

Spin states of the nature they're talking about, where you're tracking them one by one, are not a statistical phenomenon, really.  This is proof-of-concept for the possible creation of magnetic domains, which potentially could be a "bending" of the rule on a larger scale, but we're not violating thermodynamics quite yet.
 
2014-03-12 06:06:38 PM  

Mikey1969: doglover: Mikey1969: Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!

Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?

Basically, what they're saying is "The magnetic meta-material known as "spin ice" doesn't reach 0 energy at absolute zero, and this has potential applications, such as monopoles."

Jesus, that's far better than what they presented. Thank you. I can follow that and don't feel like I got in a brawl with Sarah Palin in the process.



The paper is in Nature Communications. It's a multidisciplinary journal, so it should be relatively accessible and easy to understand. Plus, apparently this particular paper is open access.
 
2014-03-12 06:10:38 PM  
Isn't it impossible to cool something to absolute zero?  I think you can get ridiculously close, like a billionth of a degree but not completely to zero K.
 
2014-03-12 06:22:32 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: so it should be relatively accessible and easy to understand.


[after 5 minutes of reading]

Ok, I take that back :D
 
2014-03-12 06:24:47 PM  

doglover: Mikey1969: Crotchrocket Slim: Does anyone else feel dumber for having read that blurb that's pretending to be an article? Like "spent six months smoking pounds worth or bath salts" dumber?

Oh hey never noticed how dreamy and smart that Paul Ryan guy is until now. He should get on a Presidential ticket some time!

Yeah, TFA sucked ass. It's like it was written after being relayed third hand to someone who just got into a high school science class. I had to look and see if I had accidentally clicked on a LiveScience article.

Anyone got a link for a better article on this? Still put into layman's terms, but at least written by an adult?

Basically, what they're saying is "The magnetic meta-material known as "spin ice" doesn't reach 0 energy at absolute zero, and this has potential applications, such as monopoles."


politicsrespun.org
 
2014-03-12 06:53:57 PM  
There is a lot going on in that article, but the basic summary is this:

Spin-Ice was showing experimental signs of breaking the 3rd law of Thermodynamics.  This (described) experiment rectified the problem and showed the Spin-ice does indeed follow the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics. (aka nothing to see here, we figured out what was going on).

Third law of Thermodynamics: A perfect crystal will have zero entroy and absolute zero.

They also tossed in magnetic monopoles (magnetic charge) for giggles to confuse you--The ability to produce magnetic charge (aka a North Pole with no south pole or vice-versa) has been a long standing goal-IIRC they created psuedo-states of matter with properties like a magnetic monopole using the above mentioned Spin-Ice.

Been out of the game a while, but hopefully that clarifies things a bit.
 
2014-03-12 07:00:14 PM  

theorellior: Thanks for linking to a click-whore site instead of the actual article.


It made AdBlock and NoScript and Baby Jesus cry, and was written by a monkey on crack.
 
2014-03-12 08:24:59 PM  

beefoe: Isn't it impossible to cool something to absolute zero?  I think you can get ridiculously close, like a billionth of a degree but not completely to zero K.


I was always led to believe "absolute zero" would be the theoretical cease/release of all energy.  Nothing spins, orbits, moves, etc, no charge, no magnetism.  Kinda like a D&D disentigration spell, all bonds utterly decayed.

I've just now worked it into my grand unification theory(lowercase because it's probably all rubbish).
In as short a summation as possible....(while I wind down for sleep)
Matter is a stable fold in space. Black holes are gravitational bodies that press so hard at the center it collapses, that fold is ironed out and matter ceases to exist, causing an unstable fold in space, the temperature of that center-(former)mass being absolute zero. It draws in from all around it, the ironing out being a chain reaction of some magnitude.

It's not that light(as well as everything else) cannot escape, it's that it ceases to exist. Light tends to bend around a black hole(iirc), because it's "not there".   Not just a void in space, but actual non-space.  This non-space exists until the chain reaction can no longer be fed, the unstable fold in space thins and evaporates and becomes a regular void.

In that it can run parallel to ignition.  It can implode, explode, or just fizzle out when there's nothing left to sustain the reaction.(which covers, iirc again, all the ways black holes "end".)

Heady, and maybe it sounds like I'm on drugs, but like I said, I'm summing up for the sake of fark posts and not hours worth of conversation / reading.
 
2014-03-12 08:50:33 PM  

omeganuepsilon: beefoe: Isn't it impossible to cool something to absolute zero?  I think you can get ridiculously close, like a billionth of a degree but not completely to zero K.

I was always led to believe "absolute zero" would be the theoretical cease/release of all energy.  Nothing spins, orbits, moves, etc, no charge, no magnetism.  Kinda like a D&D disentigration spell, all bonds utterly decayed.

I've just now worked it into my grand unification theory(lowercase because it's probably all rubbish).
In as short a summation as possible....(while I wind down for sleep)
Matter is a stable fold in space. Black holes are gravitational bodies that press so hard at the center it collapses, that fold is ironed out and matter ceases to exist, causing an unstable fold in space, the temperature of that center-(former)mass being absolute zero. It draws in from all around it, the ironing out being a chain reaction of some magnitude.

It's not that light(as well as everything else) cannot escape, it's that it ceases to exist. Light tends to bend around a black hole(iirc), because it's "not there".   Not just a void in space, but actual non-space.  This non-space exists until the chain reaction can no longer be fed, the unstable fold in space thins and evaporates and becomes a regular void.

In that it can run parallel to ignition.  It can implode, explode, or just fizzle out when there's nothing left to sustain the reaction.(which covers, iirc again, all the ways black holes "end".)

Heady, and maybe it sounds like I'm on drugs, but like I said, I'm summing up for the sake of fark posts and not hours worth of conversation / reading.


Can I buy some pot from you?
 
2014-03-12 09:27:19 PM  
No wonder entropy hates G.

/You.Will.Slow.Down
//Eventually
///G-d said so
////Were you there?
 
2014-03-12 09:36:53 PM  
Not that I have any idea if the article makes real scientific sense, but it read like 50s science fiction.
 
2014-03-12 09:38:06 PM  
Meanwhile, the fourth law of thermodynamics still holds true in all cases.

www.toothpastefordinner.com
 
2014-03-12 10:45:11 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: Meanwhile, the fourth law of thermodynamics still holds true in all cases.


That's easy to fix. All your office building maintence guy needs to do is put a thermostat in your office. It won't be hooked up to anything but you will think you are in control so you'll quit biatching about nearly indistinguishable differences in temperature.
 
2014-03-12 11:21:42 PM  

Jim_Callahan: scottydoesntknow: But I was told laws can't be broken.

That's it. I'm becoming a creationist.

Thermodynamics are statistical laws.

Spin states of the nature they're talking about, where you're tracking them one by one, are not a statistical phenomenon, really.  This is proof-of-concept for the possible creation of magnetic domains, which potentially could be a "bending" of the rule on a larger scale, but we're not violating thermodynamics quite yet.


And never will.
Wait, are they saying that law was broken because they reached an entropy of zero before reaching zero kelvin? LOL
 
2014-03-13 12:42:13 AM  
"cool" idea.

Put your law breaking on ice.
You belong in the fridge.
 
2014-03-13 04:05:37 AM  

namatad: Jim_Callahan: scottydoesntknow: But I was told laws can't be broken.

That's it. I'm becoming a creationist.

Thermodynamics are statistical laws.

Spin states of the nature they're talking about, where you're tracking them one by one, are not a statistical phenomenon, really.  This is proof-of-concept for the possible creation of magnetic domains, which potentially could be a "bending" of the rule on a larger scale, but we're not violating thermodynamics quite yet.

And never will.
Wait, are they saying that law was broken because they reached an entropy of zero before reaching zero kelvin? LOL


You can break the laws of thermodynamics locally with larger systems that kajigger stuff. All we need is wormholes, an icy planet, and some big ass copper pipes.....
 
2014-03-13 08:02:02 AM  

doglover: namatad: Jim_Callahan: scottydoesntknow: But I was told laws can't be broken.

That's it. I'm becoming a creationist.

Thermodynamics are statistical laws.

Spin states of the nature they're talking about, where you're tracking them one by one, are not a statistical phenomenon, really.  This is proof-of-concept for the possible creation of magnetic domains, which potentially could be a "bending" of the rule on a larger scale, but we're not violating thermodynamics quite yet.

And never will.
Wait, are they saying that law was broken because they reached an entropy of zero before reaching zero kelvin? LOL

You can break the laws of thermodynamics locally with larger systems that kajigger stuff. All we need is wormholes, an icy planet, and some big ass copper pipes.....


There is a reason that "closed system" is included in the wording. Saying you can break the laws of thermodynamics by using a system that isn't closed is like saying you can speed without getting a ticket by driving on a road with a higher speed limit.
 
2014-03-13 08:13:01 AM  

MadMagnum: Spin-Ice was showing experimental signs of breaking the 3rd law of Thermodynamics.  This (described) experiment rectified the problem and showed the Spin-ice does indeed follow the 3rd Law of Thermodynamics. (aka nothing to see here, we figured out what was going on).

Been out of the game a while, but hopefully that clarifies things a bit.


Yes, thanks.
I read it and thought "well, that changes nothing".  Glad to know I wasn't off.
 
2014-03-13 08:34:33 AM  
I have a theory.
First, the hockey puck.
Shoot a hockey puck down some ice, relatively friction-free. Whee! Then the puck hits some gravelly bits. It slows down. After it has passed the gravelly bit and back on ice, its speed is NOT resumed to what it was before. Instead, its speed is reduced proportionately to the time spent going through the gravelly bits.

Do you know why light moves at the speed of light in a vacuum, slower when going through a medium, and then goes back to the speed of light after passing through that medium (instead of slower coz it got slowed down in the medium)?
That's because as far as light is concerned, the time spent in the medium is zero.

I also have a theory about time being a cube.
 
2014-03-13 09:50:20 AM  

omeganuepsilon: beefoe: Isn't it impossible to cool something to absolute zero?  I think you can get ridiculously close, like a billionth of a degree but not completely to zero K.

I was always led to believe "absolute zero" would be the theoretical cease/release of all energy.  Nothing spins, orbits, moves, etc, no charge, no magnetism.  Kinda like a D&D disentigration spell, all bonds utterly decayed.

I've just now worked it into my grand unification theory(lowercase because it's probably all rubbish).
In as short a summation as possible....(while I wind down for sleep)
Matter is a stable fold in space. Black holes are gravitational bodies that press so hard at the center it collapses, that fold is ironed out and matter ceases to exist, causing an unstable fold in space, the temperature of that center-(former)mass being absolute zero. It draws in from all around it, the ironing out being a chain reaction of some magnitude.

It's not that light(as well as everything else) cannot escape, it's that it ceases to exist. Light tends to bend around a black hole(iirc), because it's "not there".   Not just a void in space, but actual non-space.  This non-space exists until the chain reaction can no longer be fed, the unstable fold in space thins and evaporates and becomes a regular void.

In that it can run parallel to ignition.  It can implode, explode, or just fizzle out when there's nothing left to sustain the reaction.(which covers, iirc again, all the ways black holes "end".)

Heady, and maybe it sounds like I'm on drugs, but like I said, I'm summing up for the sake of fark posts and not hours worth of conversation / reading.


Extremely trippy and coo'.
 
2014-03-13 02:49:49 PM  

Delta1212: There is a reason that "closed system" is included in the wording. Saying you can break the laws of thermodynamics by using a system that isn't closed is like saying you can speed without getting a ticket by driving on a road with a higher speed limit.


thank you
Cracks me up when people debate whether something violates the laws. 
Perpetual motion is impossible.  If someone has a magic system that they need investors for ...

That being said,
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0314/120314-spin-ice-films

I am not even sure how they are arguing that the 3rd law has been violated.
They are close to zero temp, but not at zero temp.

Spin ice isnt a perfect crystal, the definition of the 3rd laws is about perfect crystals.
"The entropy of a perfect crystal, at absolute zero kelvin, is exactly equal to zero. "

So it sounds like they are talking about two different things.

PLUS, while they can talk about the entropy close to zero K, it is not the same thing as being zero K.
I wonder if the non-perfect nature of the crystal would prevent the temperature from ever "hitting" zero K or be stable.

Interesting nonetheless.
 
2014-03-13 05:13:45 PM  

Stinkyy: Extremely trippy and coo'.


Or complete rubbish, heh.  I am certainly not getting into the math and other sciences behind any sort of legitimate theorizing.  Too old and too broke to get that kind of education.

But entertaining enough to try to wrap your head around the concepts, and it does make a certain kind of sense, without being all, "....because, god!"
 
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