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(Patheos)   Rapes on Christian college campus result in expulsion of students. Fark: The victims, not the attackers   (patheos.com) divider line 285
    More: Florida, Pensacola Christian College, Bob Jones University, god, honor code, Patrick Henry College, sex crimes  
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11615 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Mar 2014 at 3:39 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-12 04:30:23 PM

ikanreed: grumpfuff: If someone is a decent human being who doesn't try to force their beliefs on other people, I really don't see why it matters if they believe in a magic sky fairy.

It doesn't.  That's not the case I'm making at all.  I can judge the book as a negative thing, and be concerned about institutions surrounding it, without judging individuals.


Some groups try to distance themselves as far as possible from the nasty elements of the Bible, sometimes even saying they are wrong.

I fail to see how you can hold all of Christians to the same standard with the Bible, when not all Christians view the Bible the same way. If they all said "The Bible is absolutely the literal word of God!" sure you could hold that stance. But they don't.

 In my eyes, you're doing the same thing as the "Dawkins' book is the Atheist Bible and therefore all atheists are pricks!" that religious trolls do.
 
2014-03-12 04:31:22 PM

grumpfuff: Being as I'm not a Christian, why should I care what Christianity has ...


It appears I was... *clears throat*  wrong on the internet...  *DOH*

Carry on then... =)
 
2014-03-12 04:37:12 PM

stonicus: grumpfuff: Being as I'm not a Christian, why should I care what Christianity has ...

It appears I was... *clears throat*  wrong on the internet...  *DOH*

Carry on then... =)


It's alright.  I once got called a theocrat for saying Dawkins is a whiny, arrogant, piece of shiat who fails to grasp Philosophy 101, so this was hardly a big deal.
 
2014-03-12 04:43:07 PM

grumpfuff: I fail to see how you can hold all of Christians to the same standard with the Bible


Because that's literally the only source of anything even remotely relevant to the idea that Jesus was a person who said things.  This is important.  "I believe in the divinity of this person I literally know nothing about other than that"?

You can't actually take the bible out of Christianity, because that's nonsense.  I mean... what?  What point are you trying to make?
 
2014-03-12 04:46:47 PM

ikanreed: grumpfuff: I fail to see how you can hold all of Christians to the same standard with the Bible

Because that's literally the only source of anything even remotely relevant to the idea that Jesus was a person who said things.  This is important.  "I believe in the divinity of this person I literally know nothing about other than that"?

You can't actually take the bible out of Christianity, because that's nonsense.  I mean... what?  What point are you trying to make?


That all Christians do not view the Bible in the same way?

I'm going to take a guess that you are an atheist. Do you agree with every single thing all the atheists have said? Since Stalin was an atheist, should I assume you support genocide? No, of course not. That's retarded.
 
2014-03-12 05:01:15 PM

grumpfuff: That all Christians do not view the Bible in the same way?


I'm trying to understand here.  What "approach" or "view" or whatever, gets you to the point where "X human is GOD" is literally true, but "god said victims should marry their rapists" isn't.  They both have the same character.  I mean, separating the new testament into magically true and the old into not works, but why would that be reasonable.  It's not a new/old covenant thing, since that presumes both books are totally legit.  I don't follow the reasoning at all.
 
2014-03-12 05:04:20 PM

grumpfuff: The "defining elements" of Christianity are a) Monotheism and b) Jesus. Everything else varies from group to group.

O

.o
Yeah, I know ,,.

/Just don't try to explain the Mystery: It gives me a headache and heartburn, and it just doesn't work.
//Which is my reaction to most of Jewish mysticism, by the way.
 
2014-03-12 05:12:10 PM

ikanreed: grumpfuff: That all Christians do not view the Bible in the same way?

I'm trying to understand here.  What "approach" or "view" or whatever, gets you to the point where "X human is GOD" is literally true, but "god said victims should marry their rapists" isn't.  They both have the same character.  I mean, separating the new testament into magically true and the old into not works, but why would that be reasonable.  It's not a new/old covenant thing, since that presumes both books are totally legit.  I don't follow the reasoning at all.


I never said it makes logical sense or is reasonable or anything, I just said that's the way they view it. Did you know people also think Obama is an empty suit dictator atheist Muslim?

demaL-demaL-yeH: grumpfuff: The "defining elements" of Christianity are a) Monotheism and b) Jesus. Everything else varies from group to group.

O.o
Yeah, I know ,,.

/Just don't try to explain the Mystery: It gives me a headache and heartburn, and it just doesn't work.
//Which is my reaction to most of Jewish mysticism, by the way.


See above. :)
 
2014-03-12 05:23:37 PM

cervier: She got expelled from a college BECAUSE she was raped


No, she was expelled because she was a "fornicator". She had sex with somebody who wasn't her husband which she agreed not to do which is a violation of the code she agreed to. Fornication technically (and, more importantly, as it's typically applied by religious lunatics) includes getting raped.

You're viewing this through the wrong lens. All the people involved are fundamentalist Christians who agreed to a fundamentalist code of ethics. What you and I think of that code is immaterial. She agreed, as a fundie, to be obligated to a fundie code that would be enforced by fundies. Same with the guy.

They violated an agreement they made. It doesn't matter that the agreement was obviously ridiculous, they still agreed to it. Don't sign stupid things. It's certainly unfortunate that this is how they had to learn that valuable life lesson, but it's still true.
 
2014-03-12 06:08:42 PM
JohnnyC:Perhaps if he hadn't said:

MagicMissile: Unfortunately there are a lot of non religious evil twisted farkers out there that see Christianity and other religious venues as a place to hide and find victims.

... I might be inclined to agree. But he did.

If a police officer does something horrible to someone else, do we suddenly say that he/she was never actually a police officer at all and was an anarchist hiding in the police force to look for victims? No... we say, "that police officer did something horrible". That person might get kicked off the police force for their actions, but he/she was still a member of the police.


I tend to agree, and yet in an earlier thread (the one about Ky churches withholding funds over LBGTQ issues) I was challenged to declare that homophobic "Christians" really weren't Christians at all.

I really don't want to defend what  MagicMissile is saying.  I personally don't want to get into the whole "he's not a REAL Christian" thing --- especially since I get that accusation thrown at me from the conservative/evangelical/homophobic churches for being too liberal.  Let's just agree that, at least for purposes of discussion, anyone who calls themself a Christian IS a Christian, no matter how poor of a job they do at it.
 
2014-03-12 06:16:57 PM

Clash City Farker: cretinbob: If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

A just and wise punishment.


Some aliens believe that (VERY NSFW).
 
2014-03-12 06:22:10 PM
From the wiki:
Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society, and he adopted a strategic relationship with it "that suited his immediate political purposes". In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan" Jesus-one who fought against the Jews.Any pro-Christian public rhetoric was at variance with his personal beliefs, which described Christianity as "absurdity" and nonsense founded on lies.

Okay- my previous assessment was based on his speeches and how he would constantly say that they had to fight the Jews' oppression of the Aryan race for Jesus.
He did also make public appearances at churches from time to time to continue this charade.
But this is very interesting. :\
 
2014-03-12 06:55:03 PM

skozlaw: Too f'ing bad. Maybe try hanging out with people who have a slightly more intelligent view of human sexuality than this guy:

img.fark.net


But she looks so happy!
 
2014-03-12 06:56:39 PM

ciberido: skozlaw: Too f'ing bad. Maybe try hanging out with people who have a slightly more intelligent view of human sexuality than this guy:

[img.fark.net image 400x295]

But she looks so happy!


You're right, she looks like she wants to take a walk. No need for a cart at all; no sir. Move along.
 
2014-03-12 07:01:16 PM

tlars699: From the wiki:
Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society, and he adopted a strategic relationship with it "that suited his immediate political purposes". In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan" Jesus-one who fought against the Jews.Any pro-Christian public rhetoric was at variance with his personal beliefs, which described Christianity as "absurdity" and nonsense founded on lies.

Okay- my previous assessment was based on his speeches and how he would constantly say that they had to fight the Jews' oppression of the Aryan race for Jesus.
He did also make public appearances at churches from time to time to continue this charade.
But this is very interesting. :\


See? :)

Hitler's personal religious belief is a matter that is debated by historians, and probably always will be.
 
2014-03-12 07:02:19 PM

Rozotorical: Marcus Aurelius: Rozotorical: Marcus Aurelius: Bullseyed: he couldn't just say "oh yeah I was Catholic and went to Church" and get in to heaven

You are assuming that someone who has violated the first commandment their entire lives will get into heaven.  That's a bit of a stretch.

Why would they not get into Heaven? The bible states that with Jesus's blood your sins are washed clean.

We all get into heaven if we love the Jesus.

The first commandment clearly states that you are to have no other gods before God.  If you claim you have to go through Jesus to get to God, you're putting another God before the first One.  And don't tell me about the trinity.  That's the math Christians do to make themselves feel better about violating the first commandment.

On the plus side, all the descriptions of Heaven I've heard sound dreadful.  So going to hell won't be all that bad.  Especially since our bodies won't be there.

I always thought that commandment meant God had to be your First and that was why he couldn't just make Jesus out of dirt or bones and shiat.

He had to fark a virgin to make a new God. That is why you have to love that new God, then he will let you come into is cold cold city of metal.


^ This is EXACTLY what God was talking about.

/favorites Rozotorical in the good color
 
2014-03-12 07:17:57 PM

grumpfuff: tlars699: From the wiki:
Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society, and he adopted a strategic relationship with it "that suited his immediate political purposes". In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan" Jesus-one who fought against the Jews.Any pro-Christian public rhetoric was at variance with his personal beliefs, which described Christianity as "absurdity" and nonsense founded on lies.

Okay- my previous assessment was based on his speeches and how he would constantly say that they had to fight the Jews' oppression of the Aryan race for Jesus.
He did also make public appearances at churches from time to time to continue this charade.
But this is very interesting. :\

See? :)

Hitler's personal religious belief is a matter that is debated by historians, and probably always will be.


Like all rules, he believed that religion was useful.  That much is indisputable.
 
2014-03-12 07:27:01 PM

Egoy3k: Bullseyed: pkellmey: Uncool story - My sister went to Duke and knew 2 of the girls who were raped by important players on the basketball team during a winning season.

Which means they went to a party, got black out drunk and decided to have sex with the guys and changed their mind a day or two later when the guys told everyone in the school.

You might want to consider using your super-powered cognition for good instead of just playing on the internet all day.


He likes to do this kind of things in threads.  It's not the first time.
 
2014-03-12 07:27:09 PM

Man On Pink Corner: grumpfuff: tlars699: From the wiki:
Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society, and he adopted a strategic relationship with it "that suited his immediate political purposes". In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan" Jesus-one who fought against the Jews.Any pro-Christian public rhetoric was at variance with his personal beliefs, which described Christianity as "absurdity" and nonsense founded on lies.

Okay- my previous assessment was based on his speeches and how he would constantly say that they had to fight the Jews' oppression of the Aryan race for Jesus.
He did also make public appearances at churches from time to time to continue this charade.
But this is very interesting. :\

See? :)

Hitler's personal religious belief is a matter that is debated by historians, and probably always will be.

Like all rules, he believed that religion was useful.  That much is indisputable.


So what this says is that for anyone making generalizations about anyone else in a particular group, there will be a clear example proving them wrong?

Ie. Hitler was not a Christian, as he did not attend church and wanted to use the church for his own gains, thus disproving the idea that there can't be any christian poser using the organization for their own purpose.

There would also be the example of a professed christian who does believe in Jeebus committing atrocities such as the pastor/school listed in this article.

So you have to treat each human on a case by case basis.
Huh.
 
2014-03-12 07:44:19 PM

rzrwiresunrise: Ant: rzrwiresunrise: Oh, and fark that term "rape culture."

Why?

Cuz there's no such thing. It's this amorphous term thrown around to make it seem like there's some grand conspiracy to rape women,


No.
 
2014-03-12 07:47:17 PM

tlars699: Hitler was not a Christian, as he did not attend church and wanted to use the church for his own gains, thus disproving the idea that there can't be any christian poser using the organization for their own purpose.


I agree in principle that some people may be lying when they say they are Christian but the above doesn't really tell me he definitively wasn't Christian. I think it all boils down to faith. Not going to church or manipulating church doesn't really say anything about his faith or lack thereof.

But even when someone is a total phony and lying through their teeth about their faith in order to commit evil, the ball is still in the 'real' Christians' court because they set up an infastructure wherein these things can happen and have allowed terrible things to happen on their watch.
 
2014-03-12 08:03:27 PM

Man On Pink Corner: Like all rules, he believed that religion was useful.  That much is indisputable.


I wouldn't debate that, but the people who run around saying "Hitler was a Christian/atheist/rightist/leftist/alien from alpha centauri" are usually more interested in saying "See! Hitler agreed with my opponent!"
 
2014-03-12 08:14:16 PM

grumpfuff: I never said it makes logical sense or is reasonable or anything, I just said that's the way they view it. Did you know people also think Obama is an empty suit dictator atheist Muslim?


And those are attitudes we can be freely critical of because they make no sense.
 
2014-03-12 08:16:23 PM

ikanreed: grumpfuff: I never said it makes logical sense or is reasonable or anything, I just said that's the way they view it. Did you know people also think Obama is an empty suit dictator atheist Muslim?

And those are attitudes we can be freely critical of because they make no sense.


Then be critical of that attitude. Don't claim they believe things they don't.
 
2014-03-12 08:24:31 PM
Considering the pro Pope who has done nothing articles and the other positive articles like the nuns who told the Vatican to Fark off over healthcare and others i would say that is  a defective and biased thought.

Here are the articles on Fark about Pope Francis - which of those portray his religion in a positive light?

http://www.fark.com/hlsearch?qq=francis&is_using_js=1&o=0&limlt=0&li mw p=-1&limtt=0&comment=&url=&email=&name=&website=

The "has done nothing" line might also suggest a little bias to some..
 
2014-03-12 08:40:08 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: ciberido: doglover: kortex: What do you expect for sending your kids to a school based around made up crap?

Math is just made up crap.

No, it isn't.  Like distant galaxies, mathematics existed long before humans discovered it.

As a mathematically educated person, I would take a middle ground between those two positions. It isn't (entirely) made up crap, but neither is math some immutable property of the universe. First of all there is no singular "math", humans have invented many math systems, some of which look at things in different ways. For example in Galois field math, basic operations such as addition and subtraction are defined differently than you are used to - simply because it is useful to do so in some situations.

Maths are systems of formal logic. Which means they are models by which we represent and work on concepts. Godel proved that our math systems (formal logic systems) cannot be both complete and internally consistent. We get to choose one, (or neither).

It may also be telling about the general consensus on this subject, that most (all) mathematicians refer to Newton as having "developed" calculus, not "discovered" it. And likewise for for all other fields of math. Galois developed new fields of math, he didn't "discover" them as if they were a pre-existing entity. We (humans) define the rules as we find useful to model certain concepts.


It might be telling, if it were true.  But I'm a mathematically educated person myself, and it hasn't been my experience that 'most (all) mathematicians refer to Newton as having "developed" calculus, not "discovered" it.'  What gets developed, and is human intervention, is notation and ways of communicating and representing mathematics.

In fact, I disagree with pretty much everything you said, apart from the bit on Gödel's incompleteness theorems, which is true but not especially relevant.

And I'm pretty sure you don't know what kind of field operations I am used to, unless you sat in the same classes I did in grad school.
 
2014-03-12 09:14:07 PM
So who are we hating on in this thread--Christian colleges, or women who falsely report rape?  I need to know where to direct my selective outrage.
 
2014-03-12 10:51:19 PM
So no police involved ? But you report it to your school instead ? Education system is failing here .
 
2014-03-12 10:56:32 PM
Fark rapists.
Fark the people who cover it up.
Fark those who shiat all over the victims.

And fark this thread.
 
2014-03-13 12:02:49 AM

The hopeless imp: How do you go from wanting to be an actor


They're implying he's gay?

To what end, I really don't know.  The only people that could "matter" to is the school (gay is effeminate and therefore if you get raped you deserve it or wanted it, real men are masculine and can't be raped).
 
2014-03-13 07:47:20 AM

ciberido: No, it isn't. Like distant galaxies, mathematics existed long before humans discovered it.


This series of comments really makes me want to watch Pi again...

"11:15. Restate my assumptions: One: Mathematics is the language of nature. Two: Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. Three: If you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge. Therefore, there are patterns everywhere in nature. Evidence: The cycling of disease epidemics; the wax and wane of caribou populations; sun spot cycles; the rise and fall of the Nile."
 
2014-03-13 11:01:34 AM

RobSeace: ciberido: No, it isn't. Like distant galaxies, mathematics existed long before humans discovered it.

This series of comments really makes me want to watch Pi again...


I saw it once.  Um.  I guess I'm glad I did.  Maybe.
 
2014-03-13 12:20:13 PM

grumpfuff: Man On Pink Corner: Like all rules, he believed that religion was useful.  That much is indisputable.

I wouldn't debate that, but the people who run around saying "Hitler was a Christian/atheist/rightist/leftist/alien from alpha centauri" are usually more interested in saying "See! Hitler agreed with my opponent!"


Yeah, the only thing  you can for sure about boogeymen like Hitler and Stalin is that they were psychotic assholes.
 
2014-03-13 12:54:04 PM

ciberido: I saw it once. Um. I guess I'm glad I did. Maybe.


Heh. It's a very weird one, for sure... But, that was its main appeal for me: a crazy mathematician trying to predict the stockmarket stumbles across the secret name of God and has to literally drill the info out of his head to survive? That's just so bizarre, I have to see it!
 
2014-03-13 03:01:11 PM

Man On Pink Corner: Yeah, the only thing you can for sure about boogeymen like Hitler and Stalin is that they were psychotic assholes.


It doesn't help that this isn't true.  Undeniable egomania on Stalin's part.  But psychotic means a specific thing.
 
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