If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Daily Mail)   Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancer   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 24
    More: Scary, U.S., U.S. citizens, Britain, family leaves, UK Border Agency, uk laws  
•       •       •

8489 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2014 at 10:22 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-03-11 08:07:00 PM
9 votes:
Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.
2014-03-11 10:36:19 PM
8 votes:

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.
2014-03-11 10:29:01 PM
5 votes:
The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.
2014-03-11 08:37:39 PM
3 votes:
"He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??
2014-03-11 11:15:05 PM
2 votes:

Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.


So much this. If he had applied for residency he would have to pay UK and US taxes on his earnings. It would be pretty easy for him to get residency. Heck if I had tried that in the US I would have been deported and banned from ever entering the US again for taking advantage of the system, and that is with an American wife.
2014-03-11 11:05:31 PM
2 votes:
Don't let the facts get in the way of a sensational story.

The couple, from Chidham in West Sussex, who have a ten-year-old daughter, Alexandra, married in 2001 but Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status. It meant the chemical engineer was allowed to stay in Britain for only six months at a time, but his work for an international company meant he often travelled abroad on business so the limit was not an issue.

So he was basically staying there as a tourist.  And when he finally did apply for status it was after he was diagnosed with cancer and they didn't accept his application because he would be a burden on their medical system after having not paid anything into it.   Should this couple really have been surprised by the result?
2014-03-11 11:00:01 PM
2 votes:
So when someone gets deported for not from the UK for not doing their paperwork and being a burden to the NHS he's a dumbass, but if someone here in the US gets deported for a lack of paperwork it's an outrage.
2014-03-12 06:49:40 AM
1 votes:

Bad_Seed: There's no tax benefit to not applying for residency. HMRC only care about how long much time you're spending in the country, they don't care about your right to be there.


It's more nuanced than that.

While it's true that any domiciled person is liable for taxes, a business visitor, which is what he appears to be based on Daily Mail 'facts', cannot ever become domiciled in the UK and will therefore neither pay UK taxes nor benefit from UK public funds (of any sort.)

HMRC normally regards anyone on a resident visa as being domiciled in the UK, giving that person both the right to NHS treatment, unless that person maintains visa status and declares non-domiciled status.

The person in TFA appears to have been living in the UK while maintaining the fabrication of not being domiciled here. That would result in not paying UK taxes and in having no recourse either to public or private non-emergent treatment.
2014-03-12 01:15:50 AM
1 votes:

AGremlin:
Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.


As for the tax thing the US does credit taxes already paid, but the UK taxes would be a bit higher than the US taxes, and the US doesn't refund the difference. So he would save money by only paying US taxes.

For example if the US had 20% tax and the UK 25% and he earned £100k then he'd only pay £20k in the US but if he was UK resident he'd pay £25k in the UK and nothing in the US.
2014-03-12 01:11:33 AM
1 votes:

AGremlin: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.

Well, yes. That is the point. As an American you could marry an Italian or a Belgian and since they have the right to reside and work in the UK you can apply for residency.


You're over simplifying a process based on a link that doesn't apply in this case.

Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

You are right in one regard, anyone can apply for residency.  But the process for non EU, non EEA, and non Commonwealth citizens is significantly different from the link you posted.  Giving people false information about the process solely based on your misunderstanding of a link is not acceptable.

You can AFAIK all you want, but it won't change the actual process for gaining residency and citizenship in the UK for people not from the areas listed in the link you posted.


What countries does it list?

because it says "You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA)"

So that link and the process described is for people not from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. And Switzerland.

Last time I looked the USA was outside the EEA.

Where does it specify what countries it does apply to? Where does it exclude the USA? Maybe you can provide the link that does apply to Americans? They must have one after all.
2014-03-12 01:09:32 AM
1 votes:
If you are here on a business visa, which appears to have been the case (admittedly based on the 'facts' in a Daily Mail article):

"You can't:
- live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent visits
- marry or register a civil partnership, or give notice of marriage or civil partnership
- get private medical treatment
- get public funds"

 

Having jumped through the various hoops for marriage, immigration, taxes, etc. in three countries, I can barely express my level of sympathy for someone who acts in flagrant violation of the immigration requirements in an apparent effort to avoid tax, particularly when that person has had a decade to get his affairs in order through a choice of at least two visa options (ILR through Tier 2 established residency, spousal visa.)

The Third Man: And I defy you to have even the slightest dealings with UK Immigration--when you actually need something in person and have to go to Lunar House--and claim that the country isn't incredibly hostile to immigrants. My first dealings with them in person were over 20 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday. Bureaucracy and hatred at its finest.


It really didn't seem that way to me. My wife's tier 2 was approved without fuss and while her spousal visa was slightly less straightforward the immigration service helped us to resolve the error our lawyer had made. Lunar House is well staffed, fairly efficient, and, hideous cafe notwithstanding, one of the better experiences I've had with large-scale bureaucracy.
 

Jim_Callahan: Mostly because it's really, really depressing to be reminded that the US's immigration laws/policies, which make immigration absurdly difficult and are convoluted to the point of stupidity, are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.


You are not merely wrong, you are wildly, laughably, wrong.
2014-03-11 11:23:32 PM
1 votes:

limeyfellow: Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.

So much this. If he had applied for residency he would have to pay UK and US taxes on his earnings. It would be pretty easy for him to get residency. Heck if I had tried that in the US I would have been deported and banned from ever entering the US again for taking advantage of the system, and that is with an American wife.


Came to say this.  FTFA "Mr Marx  chose not to apply for residency status."  He  chose not to apply for residency status to avoid British taxation,  chosenot to enter into the "social contract" with the government (pay taxes, get services), and is now surprised that the government isn't going to provide those same services.
2014-03-11 11:12:56 PM
1 votes:
And now he is here in the States where he is required by law to get health insurance, so everything worked out just fine.
2014-03-11 11:03:55 PM
1 votes:

Day_Old_Dutchie: But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.


The US is far closer to having an ID card than the UK. Americans more or less have to carry their driving licence and produce it on demand to any cop asking for it in many states.
In the UK we don't have to carry our licences, or indeed any paperwork even when driving a car. And my driving licence doesn't even have my photograph on it and lives in a safe at home. And Brits don't have to give their name or address to a cop unless they are actually arrested for an offence. Many US states you are required to identify yourself to any cop who asks.
2014-03-11 11:01:11 PM
1 votes:

Mark Ratner: Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.



Sadly, most cancer patients aren't fat by the time it kills them.


This is the worst attempt at wit and humor I've seen on Fark in a while. You illustrated the funny part of a previous post when we already got the joke. Then you continued by saying that it's sad that people who die while suffering aren't also overweight. Yeah, that's not the sad part, dumbass.

Go to hell. We can share a pitcher of beer.

/First one's on me.
2014-03-11 10:57:36 PM
1 votes:

ultraholland: I generally leave DF links alone, but here's this:

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time

Without any further reading it seems like he farked up.


As a non-resident he would not have to pay UK income tax, so it is possible he did not apply for UK residency to avoid paying tax, in which case it seems fair he has no right to stay now that he suddenly has a serious long term illness that will require lots of expensive treatment.
2014-03-11 10:54:45 PM
1 votes:
But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.
2014-03-11 10:54:29 PM
1 votes:
government-run health care.  just wait until we start doing that.
2014-03-11 10:53:06 PM
1 votes:

JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.


Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.
2014-03-11 10:51:55 PM
1 votes:
I generally leave DF links alone, but here's this:

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time


Without any further reading it seems like he farked up.
2014-03-11 10:42:31 PM
1 votes:

Caffienatedjedi: Well I love the idea of UKs healthcare, how it ends up being applied sometimes worries me. Probably doesn't help a very close friend of mine is reliant on it, and spent every day harping on its shiattiness. God, I hope she is still alive.

And he had private insurance, from what I gather UK wouldn't let him use it then kicked him out? Sounds pretty stupid. I forgot what site this was from, and hoped to get a clearer idea from the comments, but the derp is ungodly.


The chances are that his health insurance coverage wouldn't cover his treatment based on it being in a foreign country. I grew up with the NHS, and know there are a lot of people who abuse the fact it's free. I have some sympathy for the family, but not much because their story is in the Daily Mail. It's likely they received a fee for selling their story, and unlikely the whole truth of the story is being told. The Daily Mail usually is for foreigners being dumped into the sea,  so the irony is profound.
2014-03-11 10:34:43 PM
1 votes:
I really hate these kinds of stories.

Mostly because it's really, really depressing to be reminded that the US's immigration laws/policies, which make immigration absurdly difficult and are convoluted to the point of stupidity, are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.

I hope I never have to move, basically.

// Well, I guess Somalia's are probably somewhat more lenient since it doesn't have an immigration office at all and you can just show up, I assume.
// Not even applying for citizenship in the same country when you get farkin' married is still a big fail, though.
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 09:24:24 PM
1 votes:
Snuffybud:

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??

Why doesn't he just get an immigrant visa for the UK?  Why didn't he apply for legal status while he was there?
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 08:08:17 PM
1 votes:
We do the same thing.
 
Displayed 24 of 24 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report