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(Daily Mail)   Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancer   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Scary, U.S., U.S. citizens, Britain, family leaves, UK Border Agency, uk laws  
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8614 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2014 at 10:22 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-12 01:30:05 AM  

fusillade762: The NHS has since dropped its bill but the Home Office is appealing the appeal

Yo dawg, we herd you like appeals...


An appeal a day
Keeps the doctors away!
 
2014-03-12 01:35:04 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: fredbox: Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.

Don't forget about the Birth Cheese.


Mmmmmm birth cheese
 
2014-03-12 01:35:43 AM  

OregonVet: Thanks Yawheh.

FTFY

You satanist?
Oh, that was a question?
 
2014-03-12 01:36:26 AM  

loonatic112358: Dwight_Yeast: fredbox: Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.

Don't forget about the Birth Cheese.

Mmmmmm birth cheese


img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-12 01:37:30 AM  
AGremlin, FlintIronstag

That link is for people who are family members of people who are from the EEA but who are not UK nationals. I appreciate that is not obvious from the wording of the page.

If a Thai man marries a French woman who is legally working in the UK under the UK's treaty agreement with France that Thai man can obtain a residency card by paying £55.

Unless a UK citizen attempts to exercise his or her Surinder Singh rights* that page is of no relevance to this case, or any other involving a UK citizen, whatsoever.

*Surinder Singh successfully argued that a non-EEA citizen, marrying a UK citizen who lived in another EEA country under its treaty agreement with the UK had the same right to residency as a non-EEA citizen marrying a non-UK EEA citizen living either in another country or the UK. He won, giving an alternative route to UK residency for, for (real) example, the American wife of a British person whose has lived and worked, full time, for three years, in Germany.
 
2014-03-12 01:42:09 AM  

Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.


This.

If you Americans can't get your shiat together enough to provide healthcare for your own citizens, at least have the humility to accept your fate rather than suck off the teet of another country's socialism you haven't paid for and have no right to.. kthxbai!

/best healthcare in the world you keep saying
//for the 1%
 
2014-03-12 01:43:01 AM  

FarkinNortherner: AGremlin: Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013. So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

British personal taxation is (usually) higher than that in the US, so he would avoid taxes by not declaring his earnings to HMRC. This is legal for a non-resident, but is not legal for an ordinary resident.


Agreed.

My point was he would not be doubled taxed if he earned income in the UK (up to the credit limit).  From the article it seems like he earned most of his income outside of the UK anyway.

Did he fark up?  Yes.  Should the UK taxpayers pay for it?  No.
 
2014-03-12 01:59:32 AM  

Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.


So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.
 
2014-03-12 02:23:33 AM  
Please be in no doubt - if that guy was being deported to India or Nigeria, the tone of this Daily Mail article would be somewhat different.

Also, everything FarkinNortherner said.
 
2014-03-12 02:25:56 AM  

untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.


He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.
 
2014-03-12 03:10:26 AM  

gwowen: untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.

He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.


I'm not saying that he is necessarily paying everything, but his property taxes, tv taxes, carbon taxes, road taxes, gas taxes, telephone taxes, and whatever other taxes exist in the area he lives in - he pays those. Also, he pays income tax to the American IRS even though he doesn't live there. Finally, he's supporting his wife, a British citizen, who does pay the taxes you described...with his money.
 
2014-03-12 03:47:11 AM  
The Third Man:
Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.


 You described a few people, not a nation. The UK is one of one of the most pro-immigrant nations in the world. Although, I admit the people there are shamefully white so we must hold them to Jesus-like standards.
Are the natives of a land not allowed to voice displeasure towards a change in their homeland that was never taken to vote?
The Native Americans are free to hate me as much as they want, and why should I care what they say behind my back? The people with power are on my side so their words are meaningless.
 
2014-03-12 04:20:26 AM  

SlothB77: government-run health care.  just wait until we start doing that.


If the government-run health care in England is so horrible, why is it a tragedy that he's getting deported from there to the country with "the best healthcare system in the world"?
 
2014-03-12 05:52:06 AM  
There's no tax benefit to not applying for residency. HMRC only care about how long much time you're spending in the country, they don't care about your right to be there. You could be an illegal immigrant and they would see it as none of their business, as long as you pay what you owe.

That said, there is a section of British society that are farking xenophobic, best to stay away from small towns and depressed ex-industrial cities. And we're currently burdened with a Conservative government who are obsessed with immigrants, taxes and the NHS (they don't like any of those things) so shiatty situations like this can happen.

/UK immigrant
//in London, where it's safe
 
2014-03-12 06:49:40 AM  

Bad_Seed: There's no tax benefit to not applying for residency. HMRC only care about how long much time you're spending in the country, they don't care about your right to be there.


It's more nuanced than that.

While it's true that any domiciled person is liable for taxes, a business visitor, which is what he appears to be based on Daily Mail 'facts', cannot ever become domiciled in the UK and will therefore neither pay UK taxes nor benefit from UK public funds (of any sort.)

HMRC normally regards anyone on a resident visa as being domiciled in the UK, giving that person both the right to NHS treatment, unless that person maintains visa status and declares non-domiciled status.

The person in TFA appears to have been living in the UK while maintaining the fabrication of not being domiciled here. That would result in not paying UK taxes and in having no recourse either to public or private non-emergent treatment.
 
2014-03-12 07:20:04 AM  

JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.


Well, they are white and he seems to be some sort of business executive.

Therefore its a travesty that he couldn't stay despite farking up the visa process.
 
2014-03-12 09:18:40 AM  

Hiro-ACiD: Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.

This.

If you Americans can't get your shiat together enough to provide healthcare for your own citizens, at least have the humility to accept your fate rather than suck off the teet of another country's socialism you haven't paid for and have no right to.. kthxbai!

/best healthcare in the world you keep saying
//for the 1%


Little known fact (even to most Muricans):  The #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is due to unplayable medical bills.  THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WITH UNPLAYABLE MEDICAL BILLS HAD PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE.  Yup, in the US of Murica, you can have health insurance, become ill, and end up bankrupt....lose your home, cars, savings, everything.  I know people that it's happened to.
 
2014-03-12 09:21:34 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: They also have a mandatory church, the head of which is their own Queen. Fine separation of church and state! No wonder they lost to Hitler.

Funny, I don't recall mandatory church or losing to Hitler in either country.


It was shortly after he bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2014-03-12 09:35:25 AM  

Starshines: Maybe he was asked to leave because he's clearly feeling up his daughter in photos.


Came here to say "Hey dad, watch your hands."
 
2014-03-12 09:37:00 AM  

gwowen: untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.

He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.


National Insurance is nothing to do with healthcare. It funds pensions, welfare etc. The NHS is funded from general taxation.
 
2014-03-12 09:40:02 AM  

FarkinNortherner: AGremlin, FlintIronstag

That link is for people who are family members of people who are from the EEA but who are not UK nationals. I appreciate that is not obvious from the wording of the page.

If a Thai man marries a French woman who is legally working in the UK under the UK's treaty agreement with France that Thai man can obtain a residency card by paying £55.

Unless a UK citizen attempts to exercise his or her Surinder Singh rights* that page is of no relevance to this case, or any other involving a UK citizen, whatsoever.

*Surinder Singh successfully argued that a non-EEA citizen, marrying a UK citizen who lived in another EEA country under its treaty agreement with the UK had the same right to residency as a non-EEA citizen marrying a non-UK EEA citizen living either in another country or the UK. He won, giving an alternative route to UK residency for, for (real) example, the American wife of a British person whose has lived and worked, full time, for three years, in Germany.


Which is what I have been saying all along. But I used the example of an American marrying an Italian or Belgian.
 
2014-03-12 11:05:36 AM  

Jim_Callahan: I guess Somalia's are probably somewhat more lenient since it doesn't have an immigration office at all and you can just show up, I assume.


Surely you can just show up and the immigration office probably won't notice but they do have an immigration office.


http://slimmigration.zzl.org/Visa.html
 
2014-03-12 12:52:34 PM  
All the butthurt aside -- the father was NOT a permanent resident but only on a 6 month visa.

The more important question is, since he married a UK citizen, fathered a UK child, why didn't he apply for residency? If he had, he wouldn't have had this problem.

Personal responsibility, FTW.
 
2014-03-12 02:17:18 PM  

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


It could have been a way to avoid taxes as well, if he only visited the UK he didn't have the right to work.

If he worked mainly in foreign countries then the US wouldn't tax his worldwide income until he made over $95,000 USD and then since he wasn't officially living in the UK, no taxes there either.
 
2014-03-12 10:36:10 PM  

Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??


"but his work for an international company meant he often travelled abroad on business"
 
2014-03-12 10:46:51 PM  

Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.


Doesn't a US citizen working and living overseas still have to pay tax in the US? I suspect that he thought if he became a UK citizen he might have to give up his US citizenship. I'm not sure if that's true or not but he may have thought it was.

He wanted to use his private insurance but the NHS insisted that he should use the public system. This sounds like a case of Home Office stupidity. His wife should start a petition on change.org.
 
2014-03-13 07:25:54 AM  

kg2095: Doesn't a US citizen working and living overseas still have to pay tax in the US?


Yes.

I suspect that he thought if he became a UK citizen he might have to give up his US citizenship. I'm not sure if that's true or not but he may have thought it was.

It is not true.

He wanted to use his private insurance but the NHS insisted that he should use the public system. This sounds like a case of Home Office stupidity. His wife should start a petition on change.org.

Private medical insurance is not valid for non-emergent treatment while on any visitor visa.

This chap was (again based on Daily Mail 'facts') entirely hoist with his own petard.
 
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