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(Daily Mail)   Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancer   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 127
    More: Scary, U.S., U.S. citizens, Britain, family leaves, UK Border Agency, uk laws  
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8497 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2014 at 10:22 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-11 07:47:10 PM
The NHS has since dropped its bill but the Home Office is appealing the appeal

Yo dawg, we herd you like appeals...
 
2014-03-11 08:03:42 PM
Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.
 
2014-03-11 08:07:00 PM
Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 08:08:17 PM
We do the same thing.
 
2014-03-11 08:32:37 PM
Thanks Obama.
 
2014-03-11 08:37:39 PM
"He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 09:24:24 PM
Snuffybud:

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??

Why doesn't he just get an immigrant visa for the UK?  Why didn't he apply for legal status while he was there?
 
2014-03-11 09:38:15 PM
It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.
 
2014-03-11 09:56:43 PM

Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??


FTFA:

his work for an international company meant he often travelled abroad on business
 
2014-03-11 10:10:14 PM

Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.


weknowmemes.com

Sadly, most cancer patients aren't fat by the time it kills them.
 
2014-03-11 10:27:30 PM
Maybe he was asked to leave because he's clearly feeling up his daughter in photos.
 
2014-03-11 10:29:01 PM
The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.
 
2014-03-11 10:32:19 PM
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free -- 'cept cancer.

That's icky.

Besides, your insurance company won't pay for it. Go to a commie socialist county that hates freedom.
 
2014-03-11 10:33:40 PM
in America he wouldn't owe the 100,000, they just wouldn't have treated him.
 
2014-03-11 10:34:01 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free -- 'cept cancer.

That's icky.

Besides, your insurance company won't pay for it. Go to a commie socialist county that hates freedom.


Nevermind, read the article...
 
2014-03-11 10:34:36 PM
Well I love the idea of UKs healthcare, how it ends up being applied sometimes worries me. Probably doesn't help a very close friend of mine is reliant on it, and spent every day harping on its shiattiness. God, I hope she is still alive.

And he had private insurance, from what I gather UK wouldn't let him use it then kicked him out? Sounds pretty stupid. I forgot what site this was from, and hoped to get a clearer idea from the comments, but the derp is ungodly.
 
2014-03-11 10:34:43 PM
I really hate these kinds of stories.

Mostly because it's really, really depressing to be reminded that the US's immigration laws/policies, which make immigration absurdly difficult and are convoluted to the point of stupidity, are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.

I hope I never have to move, basically.

// Well, I guess Somalia's are probably somewhat more lenient since it doesn't have an immigration office at all and you can just show up, I assume.
// Not even applying for citizenship in the same country when you get farkin' married is still a big fail, though.
 
2014-03-11 10:36:19 PM

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.
 
2014-03-11 10:42:31 PM

Caffienatedjedi: Well I love the idea of UKs healthcare, how it ends up being applied sometimes worries me. Probably doesn't help a very close friend of mine is reliant on it, and spent every day harping on its shiattiness. God, I hope she is still alive.

And he had private insurance, from what I gather UK wouldn't let him use it then kicked him out? Sounds pretty stupid. I forgot what site this was from, and hoped to get a clearer idea from the comments, but the derp is ungodly.


The chances are that his health insurance coverage wouldn't cover his treatment based on it being in a foreign country. I grew up with the NHS, and know there are a lot of people who abuse the fact it's free. I have some sympathy for the family, but not much because their story is in the Daily Mail. It's likely they received a fee for selling their story, and unlikely the whole truth of the story is being told. The Daily Mail usually is for foreigners being dumped into the sea,  so the irony is profound.
 
2014-03-11 10:43:20 PM
Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.
 
2014-03-11 10:44:00 PM
He wasn't really deported, because he was never a resident there to begin with.
 
2014-03-11 10:47:49 PM

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


"22". Is that code for cancer?
 
2014-03-11 10:50:07 PM
If he'd robbed a bank for 98,000 pounds, he could have paid for treatment OR they would have put him in jail in the UK AND treated his cancer.

Gotta think outside the box.
 
2014-03-11 10:51:50 PM

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


The UK does not have, AFAIK, any requirement that you not leave the country while you are applying.
Link

He chose not to apply, which would have been a formality. If TFA is correct I have no idea why the NHS didn't let him use his insurance, which he apparently had, or why the immigration people are insisting on kicking him out despite the fact he has insurance, a job etc. I assume there is more to the story...
 
2014-03-11 10:51:55 PM
I generally leave DF links alone, but here's this:

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time


Without any further reading it seems like he farked up.
 
2014-03-11 10:53:06 PM

JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.


Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.
 
2014-03-11 10:53:18 PM
Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time


I mean really. it is sad for him but think on this murcans.. the british people respond to this by saying 'well really we ought to be helping someone like this not send them home'

How would the american people respond to a case like this? you dont even think you should look after your own citizens, what would you do to a non-resident alien?
 
2014-03-11 10:54:28 PM

Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??




Ask Edward Snowden.
 
2014-03-11 10:54:29 PM
government-run health care.  just wait until we start doing that.
 
2014-03-11 10:54:32 PM
"Oh shiat. I have leukemia."
"No worries. We Brits have the NHS to pay for your expensive treatment."
"Errr...I'm not British. But I have private insurance to pay for my expensive treatment."
"Nope. Since it's potentially fatal, you must be treated within the NHS system."
"Oh...OK. Let's get started."
"Nope. Under the NHS rules, you're a public burden. Get out of our country."
"But I have insurance!"
"Not listening anymore. Here's your bag, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out. And here's a bill for 98 grand."

W. T. F.

Britain I am disappoint. You do crap like this, and we can't claim Obamacare will ever work.
 
2014-03-11 10:54:45 PM
But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.
 
2014-03-11 10:57:36 PM

ultraholland: I generally leave DF links alone, but here's this:

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time

Without any further reading it seems like he farked up.


As a non-resident he would not have to pay UK income tax, so it is possible he did not apply for UK residency to avoid paying tax, in which case it seems fair he has no right to stay now that he suddenly has a serious long term illness that will require lots of expensive treatment.
 
2014-03-11 11:00:01 PM
So when someone gets deported for not from the UK for not doing their paperwork and being a burden to the NHS he's a dumbass, but if someone here in the US gets deported for a lack of paperwork it's an outrage.
 
2014-03-11 11:01:11 PM

Mark Ratner: Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.



Sadly, most cancer patients aren't fat by the time it kills them.


This is the worst attempt at wit and humor I've seen on Fark in a while. You illustrated the funny part of a previous post when we already got the joke. Then you continued by saying that it's sad that people who die while suffering aren't also overweight. Yeah, that's not the sad part, dumbass.

Go to hell. We can share a pitcher of beer.

/First one's on me.
 
2014-03-11 11:03:01 PM
FTA which is from the article of this: "A file image of Nashville is pictured"

Thanks to you Daily Mailbag fit this contribution to the story of this.
 
2014-03-11 11:03:35 PM

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??

Ask Edward Snowden.


Being a wanted criminal changes things.
 
2014-03-11 11:03:55 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.


The US is far closer to having an ID card than the UK. Americans more or less have to carry their driving licence and produce it on demand to any cop asking for it in many states.
In the UK we don't have to carry our licences, or indeed any paperwork even when driving a car. And my driving licence doesn't even have my photograph on it and lives in a safe at home. And Brits don't have to give their name or address to a cop unless they are actually arrested for an offence. Many US states you are required to identify yourself to any cop who asks.
 
2014-03-11 11:04:56 PM

Starshines: Maybe he was asked to leave because he's clearly feeling up his daughter in photos.


I noticed that as well.  Why grab up there and cup your daughter's breast when you could easily just go for the stomach area to hold her?  Probably a spur-of-the-moment thing, but to be fair, it was only 1 photo, not photos.
 
2014-03-11 11:05:31 PM
Don't let the facts get in the way of a sensational story.

The couple, from Chidham in West Sussex, who have a ten-year-old daughter, Alexandra, married in 2001 but Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status. It meant the chemical engineer was allowed to stay in Britain for only six months at a time, but his work for an international company meant he often travelled abroad on business so the limit was not an issue.

So he was basically staying there as a tourist.  And when he finally did apply for status it was after he was diagnosed with cancer and they didn't accept his application because he would be a burden on their medical system after having not paid anything into it.   Should this couple really have been surprised by the result?
 
2014-03-11 11:08:41 PM

The Third Man: JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.

Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.


False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.
 
2014-03-11 11:10:25 PM
When I had the cancer they tried to return to me upon the country to where I was from. I am glad to have the graduate program doing the supporting of me because smoked fish and seaweed and leaches probably would not have done the working. Of course with such the treatment I would also not be doing the concerning of the secondary tumor as having cause from the chemical therapeutics and the radon.
 
2014-03-11 11:12:06 PM

tylerdurden217: Mark Ratner: Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.

Sadly, most cancer patients aren't fat by the time it kills them.

This is the worst attempt at wit and humor I've seen on Fark in a while. You illustrated the funny part of a previous post when we already got the joke. Then you continued by saying that it's sad that people who die while suffering aren't also overweight. Yeah, that's not the sad part, dumbass.

Go to hell. We can share a pitcher of beer.

/First one's on me.


Yikes, I wasn't trying to be funny, but that pic does make me laugh, so maybe I was, but I really wasn't. Cancer sucks, and the treatment sucks too...this fact was more my point. Sorry, if I came off like a callous asshole. I'm really not.
 
2014-03-11 11:12:56 PM
And now he is here in the States where he is required by law to get health insurance, so everything worked out just fine.
 
2014-03-11 11:15:05 PM

Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.


So much this. If he had applied for residency he would have to pay UK and US taxes on his earnings. It would be pretty easy for him to get residency. Heck if I had tried that in the US I would have been deported and banned from ever entering the US again for taking advantage of the system, and that is with an American wife.
 
2014-03-11 11:15:11 PM
*out of the replies of these
 
2014-03-11 11:17:05 PM
Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.


The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.
 
2014-03-11 11:20:07 PM

Flint Ironstag: The Third Man: JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.

Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.


Notice that I said "you can still be rejected".  You can apply for residency instantly.  That doesn't mean you'll get it.  And when you don't, you will receive no explanation as to why you didn't.

And I defy you to have even the slightest dealings with UK Immigration--when you actually need something in person and have to go to Lunar House--and claim that the country isn't incredibly hostile to immigrants.  My first dealings with them in person were over 20 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday.  Bureaucracy and hatred at its finest.  And I'll never forget the time a Tanzanian applicant I was chatting with at 4 am (because that's when you needed to be there to actually be seen by 5 pm, because lord forbid they hire enough staff to see everybody in a day) said to me as we finally got to the room where our numbers were called:  "Well, you have a chance.  You're white."  Saw him leaving in tears later.  Sure made me feel wonderful about my then-adopted country.  Of course, my application was rejected too.
 
2014-03-11 11:21:31 PM

Snuffybud: Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??


And if he *did* need a passport while in the US... he can easily get one at his local post office.
 
2014-03-11 11:22:29 PM

meow said the dog: FTA which is from the article of this: "A file image of Nashville is pictured"

Thanks to you Daily Mailbag fit this contribution to the story of this.


In the recent Fail article on the orgasm implant for the women of this, they ran a picture of what a pushbutton looks like of this AND a picture of a woman having of the orgasm of this.
 
2014-03-11 11:23:32 PM

limeyfellow: Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.

So much this. If he had applied for residency he would have to pay UK and US taxes on his earnings. It would be pretty easy for him to get residency. Heck if I had tried that in the US I would have been deported and banned from ever entering the US again for taking advantage of the system, and that is with an American wife.


Came to say this.  FTFA "Mr Marx  chose not to apply for residency status."  He  chose not to apply for residency status to avoid British taxation,  chosenot to enter into the "social contract" with the government (pay taxes, get services), and is now surprised that the government isn't going to provide those same services.
 
2014-03-11 11:24:18 PM
Ah yes, the Socialist Utopia the democrats have been telling us all about for years. I bet you can kill your baby for free as well - kind of like icing on the cake. Keep Calm and Ignore the Police State.
 
2014-03-11 11:25:15 PM

AGremlin: Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.

The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.


The very first paragraph in my link starts:

You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and living with a European partner or family member.


There are no residency rules for EU citizens, they can just come here and that's it. They automatically have full residency and working rights.
 
2014-03-11 11:25:32 PM
So the moral is, if you don't want to get deported, don't get cancer.
 
2014-03-11 11:28:32 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.


Well, technically they're working for the Queen, yes?
 
2014-03-11 11:29:54 PM

The Third Man: Notice that I said "you can still be rejected". You can apply for residency instantly. That doesn't mean you'll get it. And when you don't, you will receive no explanation as to why you didn't.

And I defy you to have even the slightest dealings with UK Immigration--when you actually need something in person and have to go to Lunar House--and claim that the country isn't incredibly hostile to immigrants. My first dealings with them in person were over 20 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday. Bureaucracy and hatred at its finest. And I'll never forget the time a Tanzanian applicant I was chatting with at 4 am (because that's when you needed to be there to actually be seen by 5 pm, because lord forbid they hire enough staff to see everybody in a day) said to me as we finally got to the room where our numbers were called: "Well, you have a chance. You're white." Saw him leaving in tears later. Sure made me feel wonderful about my then-adopted country. Of course, my application was rejected too..



You said you can't even apply for five years. Which is wrong.

And surely the fact that a white American and a black Tanzanian were both rejected suggests that racism didn't come into it.

This article is clear. He chose not to apply, quite possibly for tax reasons.
 
2014-03-11 11:32:16 PM
The following is 90% speculation, but I'm commenting on something published by the Daily Mail, which specializes in 100% bullshiat...

He had over a decade to apply for what would have been a rubber stamp residency and path to Citizenship with two nations who are fine with dual nationalities. He decided not to, choosing instead to remain on the equivalent of a H-1B visa. The most rational explanation for him choosing to stay on a visa that restricted his residency and who he can work for is that he was avoiding taxes by being a non-resident. Aside from taxes there is no reason to avoid at least getting residency, if not citizenship.

If you know anyone on a H1-B visa ask them if they would turn down the opportunity to swap it for a green card through a rubber-stamp procedure or if they would choose to continue another decade on their employer sponsored visa.

I have a strong suspicion that the reason his private insurance was not used is because the insurer realized he wasn't a legal resident, which would be a likely requirement for coverage and that the Daily Fail is glossing over that. I could well be wrong, but it wouldn't be the first time they have bent the truth to that extent. This could also be why he had a sudden change of heart about applying for residency.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is this guy is seriously regretting dicking about with residency status to save a few bucks in taxes.
 
2014-03-11 11:33:04 PM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.

The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.

The very first paragraph in my link starts:

You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and living with a European partner or family member.


There are no residency rules for EU citizens, they can just come here and that's it. They automatically have full residency and working rights.


Having been through the process as an American citizen, I can tell you that the link applies only to EU, EEA, and Commonwealth citizens.

The rules for U.S. citizens are quite different.
 
2014-03-11 11:36:01 PM

AGremlin: Having been through the process as an American citizen, I can tell you that the link applies only to EU, EEA, and Commonwealth citizens.

The rules for U.S. citizens are quite different.


The link is very clearly not for EU citizens, since they don't need to do anything. The can just arrive and get a job. They don't need any card or application.
 
2014-03-11 11:36:21 PM
Oh how I have missed the insane mumblings of fark's favorite meowing biatch (which is the proper name for a female dog, and not an insult).
 
2014-03-11 11:38:27 PM

Jim_Callahan: I really hate these kinds of stories.

Mostly because it's really, really depressing to be reminded that the US's immigration laws/policies, which make immigration absurdly difficult and are convoluted to the point of stupidity, are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.

I hope I never have to move, basically.


The US is a more onerous system than most other English speaking nations. There was nothing at all stopping this guy from getting residency for the decade or so he was there and married to an English woman.
 
2014-03-11 11:40:00 PM

Target Builder: The following is 90% speculation, but I'm commenting on something published by the Daily Mail, which specializes in 100% bullshiat...

He had over a decade to apply for what would have been a rubber stamp residency and path to Citizenship with two nations who are fine with dual nationalities. He decided not to, choosing instead to remain on the equivalent of a H-1B visa. The most rational explanation for him choosing to stay on a visa that restricted his residency and who he can work for is that he was avoiding taxes by being a non-resident. Aside from taxes there is no reason to avoid at least getting residency, if not citizenship.

If you know anyone on a H1-B visa ask them if they would turn down the opportunity to swap it for a green card through a rubber-stamp procedure or if they would choose to continue another decade on their employer sponsored visa.

I have a strong suspicion that the reason his private insurance was not used is because the insurer realized he wasn't a legal resident, which would be a likely requirement for coverage and that the Daily Fail is glossing over that. I could well be wrong, but it wouldn't be the first time they have bent the truth to that extent. This could also be why he had a sudden change of heart about applying for residency.

Maybe I'm wrong, but my guess is this guy is seriously regretting dicking about with residency status to save a few bucks in taxes.


Quite possibly. Insurance as a tourist is for emergency treatment and for anything long term they will fly you home and that's their responsibility over. Possibly they said "Cancer? That's serious. We'll get you back home so you can get treated." and he said "But I live here". To which they said "Er, that's not what your policy says..."

The NHS is well used to invoicing insurance companies for overseas visitors if thy need treatment here, so there is no reason they wouldn't do so here.

But that is pure speculation of course. And based on a Daily Mail article.
 
2014-03-11 11:40:17 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Ah yes, the Socialist Utopia the democrats have been telling us all about for years. I bet you can kill your baby for free as well - kind of like icing on the cake. Keep Calm and Ignore the Police State.


They also have a mandatory church, the head of which is their own Queen. Fine separation of church and state! No wonder they lost to Hitler.
 
2014-03-11 11:41:14 PM
I'm glad my neighbor is a citizen, he started his first round of chemo this week.

I can't imagine what that guy is going through being away from his wife and kid right now.  I'm sure my neighbor would fall apart if his wife wasn't there for him.  I like my neighbor, I don't want him replaced by some crazy like we had in the other house.  So we are rooting for him.

/true story
 
2014-03-11 11:42:56 PM

r1niceboy: Caffienatedjedi: Well I love the idea of UKs healthcare, how it ends up being applied sometimes worries me. Probably doesn't help a very close friend of mine is reliant on it, and spent every day harping on its shiattiness. God, I hope she is still alive.

And he had private insurance, from what I gather UK wouldn't let him use it then kicked him out? Sounds pretty stupid. I forgot what site this was from, and hoped to get a clearer idea from the comments, but the derp is ungodly.

The chances are that his health insurance coverage wouldn't cover his treatment based on it being in a foreign country. I grew up with the NHS, and know there are a lot of people who abuse the fact it's free. I have some sympathy for the family, but not much because their story is in the Daily Mail. It's likely they received a fee for selling their story, and unlikely the whole truth of the story is being told. The Daily Mail usually is for foreigners being dumped into the sea,  so the irony is profound.


For a real laugh, remember that the Daily Mail is actually owned by a British Lord who is legally domiciled in France for tax reasons, and owns the Daily Mail through trusts in the British Virgin Islands. It's always funny when the Mail has a go at "foreigners" when it's owned by one.
 
2014-03-11 11:44:47 PM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Having been through the process as an American citizen, I can tell you that the link applies only to EU, EEA, and Commonwealth citizens.

The rules for U.S. citizens are quite different.

The link is very clearly not for EU citizens, since they don't need to do anything. The can just arrive and get a job. They don't need any card or application.


Having been through the actual process, I can tell you that the link is clearly not for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens either. U.S.citizens do need to apply and there are time in country requirements.
 
2014-03-11 11:44:49 PM

Flint Ironstag: Day_Old_Dutchie: But the Home Office ruled he had become a burden on the taxpayer

Ah, yes. That very British organization that uses Orwell's 1984 as standard operating procedures.

The ones that tries to convince whatever party in power to censor the 'net and force every resident to carry around identification.

Guess what British people? These guys don't work for you.

The US is far closer to having an ID card than the UK. Americans more or less have to carry their driving licence and produce it on demand to any cop asking for it in many states.
In the UK we don't have to carry our licences, or indeed any paperwork even when driving a car. And my driving licence doesn't even have my photograph on it and lives in a safe at home. And Brits don't have to give their name or address to a cop unless they are actually arrested for an offence. Many US states you are required to identify yourself to any cop who asks.


Huh.

Learned something new.
 
2014-03-11 11:45:33 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: They also have a mandatory church, the head of which is their own Queen. Fine separation of church and state! No wonder they lost to Hitler.


Funny, I don't recall mandatory church or losing to Hitler in either country.
 
2014-03-11 11:46:45 PM
I realize this is the dailyfail so large parts of the story are likely made up, but when government takes things over there are rules. Hard and fast bureaucratic rules that can be bent for the right people if you get what I mean. Those who want more government doing more things, this is how it works, get over it. Rules are rules.

Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??


That doesn't make sense and may be an indication of one of the made up portions of the story. He may not be able to work for his former employer because of travel issues, but he's back in the USA, all he has to do is say he lost his passport, pay the fees and he'll get a new one. They have all his info on file so it's not like he needs much of anything to get it replaced. Maybe the state department gets funny if they know the UK government has his passport, but I don't see why they should care. But maybe there are rules.
 
2014-03-11 11:47:43 PM

SpdrJay: So the moral is, if you don't want to get deported, don't get cancer become a resident of the country you're living in.

 
2014-03-11 11:50:07 PM

WhoopAssWayne: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: They also have a mandatory church, the head of which is their own Queen. Fine separation of church and state! No wonder they lost to Hitler.

Funny, I don't recall mandatory church or losing to Hitler in either country.


Sh! I'm feeding the troll!

Oh... wait... it was you?
 
2014-03-11 11:53:14 PM

Jim_Callahan: are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.


I'm not sure... it's anecdotal, but I personally know three high-skill students from third countries who, failing to get a permanent status in the US, managed to find themselves in Canada with a fair bit less insanity.
 
2014-03-11 11:54:52 PM
Everyone is a socialist when the shiat happens to them.
 
2014-03-11 11:56:49 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Oh... wait... it was you?


Yes, yes Suckmaster, I am your Father. Search your feelings. You know it is true.
 
2014-03-11 11:57:41 PM

AGremlin: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Having been through the process as an American citizen, I can tell you that the link applies only to EU, EEA, and Commonwealth citizens.

The rules for U.S. citizens are quite different.

The link is very clearly not for EU citizens, since they don't need to do anything. The can just arrive and get a job. They don't need any card or application.

Having been through the actual process, I can tell you that the link is clearly not for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens either. U.S.citizens do need to apply and there are time in country requirements.


That was my point. The page is about how to apply. That is why it is titled "Apply for a UK residence card". Which is also why it is not for EU citizens as they do not need to apply since they already have the right to reside in the UK.

You can apply from day one, indeed you must apply before you have been in the UK for six months. This guy only avoided that because his job kept him coming and going.
Maybe you are thinking of Citizenship? That you have to wait several years before you can apply.
 
2014-03-12 12:04:09 AM
Not really on topic but for an idea of how Brits think of foreigners listen to the excellent The Unbelievable Truth BBC radio show. Listen from 20.30 on where German Henning Wehn gives a talk on 'The British'. Listen to the audience as they react with fury to his comments...
 
2014-03-12 12:05:12 AM

WhoopAssWayne: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Oh... wait... it was you?

Yes, yes Suckmaster, I am your Father. Search your feelings. You know it is true.


My father would never be dumb enough to build a moon-sized ultimate weapon that could be completely and utterly destroyed with one shot on a thermal exhaust port the size of a womp-rat.

I mean fark, you could have just laid a piece of plywood over that thing.

And god, really - Natalie Portman for fark sake?
 
2014-03-12 12:05:20 AM

lack of warmth: I can't imagine what that guy is going through being away from his wife and kid right now.


Well, his wife could have gone with him to the USA; she didn't need to stay in England.

Trifecta in play: God hates him, the UK government hates him, *and* his wife hates him too.
 
2014-03-12 12:10:44 AM
bbbbut socialized medicine!
 
2014-03-12 12:12:55 AM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: My father would never be dumb enough to build a moon-sized ultimate weapon that could be completely and utterly destroyed with one shot on a thermal exhaust port the size of a womp-rat.


Was totally not your Dad.

An apology from the original Death Star engineer who put in those exhaust ports - no doubt a rebel spy from day one.
 
2014-03-12 12:20:45 AM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Having been through the process as an American citizen, I can tell you that the link applies only to EU, EEA, and Commonwealth citizens.

The rules for U.S. citizens are quite different.

The link is very clearly not for EU citizens, since they don't need to do anything. The can just arrive and get a job. They don't need any card or application.

Having been through the actual process, I can tell you that the link is clearly not for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens either. U.S.citizens do need to apply and there are time in country requirements.

That was my point. The page is about how to apply. That is why it is titled "Apply for a UK residence card". Which is also why it is not for EU citizens as they do not need to apply since they already have the right to reside in the UK.

You can apply from day one, indeed you must apply before you have been in the UK for six months. This guy only avoided that because his job kept him coming and going.
Maybe you are thinking of Citizenship? That you have to wait several years before you can apply.


Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.
 
2014-03-12 12:28:59 AM

Target Builder: There was nothing at all stopping this guy from getting residency for the decade or so he was there and married to an English woman.


Well, except not wanting to pay taxes. ITo me, it's the same as someone in the USA who didn't pay for health insurance because "Hey, I don't need it." Then you need it and you're screwed. Same with the social benefits of the UK system.
 
2014-03-12 12:29:32 AM

Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.


Yup, this sounds like a guy who tried working both sides of the street.  He's in the UK when it suits him, he's in the US when it suits him.  Pick one.
 
2014-03-12 12:29:40 AM

MemeSlave: bbbbut socialized medicine!


Which he didn't pay into, deliberately and with concious forethought, in order to avoid tax, because he's a typical "gimme mine, and I'll have some of yours too" Merkin.

So fark him.  Fark him long, fark him hard.
 
2014-03-12 12:34:40 AM

JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.


The immigrant in TFA is white.
 
2014-03-12 12:37:34 AM

AGremlin: Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.


Well, yes. That is the point. As an American you could marry an Italian or a Belgian and since they have the right to reside and work in the UK you can apply for residency.
 
2014-03-12 12:38:41 AM

sunderland56: lack of warmth: I can't imagine what that guy is going through being away from his wife and kid right now.

Well, his wife could have gone with him to the USA; she didn't need to stay in England.

Trifecta in play: God hates him, the UK government hates him, *and* his wife hates him too.


That's harsh dude.  I'll concede the UK hates him, we really don't know why his wife didn't leave with him, but I won't go along with something that sounds like something those WBC people would say.
 
2014-03-12 12:38:50 AM

Starshines: Maybe he was asked to leave because he's clearly feeling up his daughter in photos.


Yeah, I'm sure that wasn't intentional (kids squirm) but it's gotta suck having THAT photo posted all over the place.
 
2014-03-12 12:47:36 AM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.

The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.

The very first paragraph in my link starts:

You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and living with a European partner or family member.


There are no residency rules for EU citizens, they can just come here and that's it. They automatically have full residency and working rights.


Not true.  Croatia recently entered the EU.  Croats, and others from countries that recently entered the EU, have the right to travel too, and reside in, the UK, but must obtain work permits if they want to work in the UK.
 
2014-03-12 12:57:59 AM

Fissile: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.

The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.

The very first paragraph in my link starts:

You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and living with a European partner or family member.


There are no residency rules for EU citizens, they can just come here and that's it. They automatically have full residency and working rights.

Not true.  Croatia recently entered the EU.  Croats, and others from countries that recently entered the EU, have the right to travel too, and reside in, the UK, but must obtain work permits if they want to work in the UK.


And Bulgarians and Romanians only just got that right this year, but in general EU citizens all have free right of movement in the EU.
 
2014-03-12 01:00:27 AM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.

Well, yes. That is the point. As an American you could marry an Italian or a Belgian and since they have the right to reside and work in the UK you can apply for residency.



You're over simplifying a process based on a link that doesn't apply in this case.

Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

You are right in one regard, anyone can apply for residency.  But the process for non EU, non EEA, and non Commonwealth citizens is significantly different from the link you posted.  Giving people false information about the process solely based on your misunderstanding of a link is not acceptable.

You can AFAIK all you want, but it won't change the actual process for gaining residency and citizenship in the UK for people not from the areas listed in the link you posted.
 
2014-03-12 01:04:51 AM
Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he wed Mrs Marx
It meant the engineer could only stay in UK for up to six months at a time


Done, and done.
 
2014-03-12 01:09:32 AM
If you are here on a business visa, which appears to have been the case (admittedly based on the 'facts' in a Daily Mail article):

"You can't:
- live in the UK for long periods of time through frequent visits
- marry or register a civil partnership, or give notice of marriage or civil partnership
- get private medical treatment
- get public funds"

 

Having jumped through the various hoops for marriage, immigration, taxes, etc. in three countries, I can barely express my level of sympathy for someone who acts in flagrant violation of the immigration requirements in an apparent effort to avoid tax, particularly when that person has had a decade to get his affairs in order through a choice of at least two visa options (ILR through Tier 2 established residency, spousal visa.)

The Third Man: And I defy you to have even the slightest dealings with UK Immigration--when you actually need something in person and have to go to Lunar House--and claim that the country isn't incredibly hostile to immigrants. My first dealings with them in person were over 20 years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday. Bureaucracy and hatred at its finest.


It really didn't seem that way to me. My wife's tier 2 was approved without fuss and while her spousal visa was slightly less straightforward the immigration service helped us to resolve the error our lawyer had made. Lunar House is well staffed, fairly efficient, and, hideous cafe notwithstanding, one of the better experiences I've had with large-scale bureaucracy.
 

Jim_Callahan: Mostly because it's really, really depressing to be reminded that the US's immigration laws/policies, which make immigration absurdly difficult and are convoluted to the point of stupidity, are literally the most lenient and immigrant-favoring immigration laws in the modern world.


You are not merely wrong, you are wildly, laughably, wrong.
 
2014-03-12 01:11:33 AM

AGremlin: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.

Well, yes. That is the point. As an American you could marry an Italian or a Belgian and since they have the right to reside and work in the UK you can apply for residency.


You're over simplifying a process based on a link that doesn't apply in this case.

Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

You are right in one regard, anyone can apply for residency.  But the process for non EU, non EEA, and non Commonwealth citizens is significantly different from the link you posted.  Giving people false information about the process solely based on your misunderstanding of a link is not acceptable.

You can AFAIK all you want, but it won't change the actual process for gaining residency and citizenship in the UK for people not from the areas listed in the link you posted.


What countries does it list?

because it says "You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA)"

So that link and the process described is for people not from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. And Switzerland.

Last time I looked the USA was outside the EEA.

Where does it specify what countries it does apply to? Where does it exclude the USA? Maybe you can provide the link that does apply to Americans? They must have one after all.
 
2014-03-12 01:15:42 AM

AGremlin: Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013. So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.


British personal taxation is (usually) higher than that in the US, so he would avoid taxes by not declaring his earnings to HMRC. This is legal for a non-resident, but is not legal for an ordinary resident.
 
2014-03-12 01:15:50 AM

AGremlin:
Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.


As for the tax thing the US does credit taxes already paid, but the UK taxes would be a bit higher than the US taxes, and the US doesn't refund the difference. So he would save money by only paying US taxes.

For example if the US had 20% tax and the UK 25% and he earned £100k then he'd only pay £20k in the US but if he was UK resident he'd pay £25k in the UK and nothing in the US.
 
2014-03-12 01:20:00 AM

Flint Ironstag: Fissile: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag:

False. You can apply for residency instantly. After five years you can apply for a permanent resident card, but you can still be a legal, full, resident from the start.

/Non-UK born person living in the UK.
//And I've worked with many non-UK born people in many places, from all over the world, and my experience is totally different to what you're claiming.

The residency rules for EU, EEA, and Commonwealth members are different than the rules for U.S. citizens married to UK citizens.  You keep using a link to information that does not apply in this case.

The very first paragraph in my link starts:

You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and living with a European partner or family member.


There are no residency rules for EU citizens, they can just come here and that's it. They automatically have full residency and working rights.

Not true.  Croatia recently entered the EU.  Croats, and others from countries that recently entered the EU, have the right to travel too, and reside in, the UK, but must obtain work permits if they want to work in the UK.

And Bulgarians and Romanians only just got that right this year, but in general EU citizens all have free right of movement in the EU.


Reside is one thing, work is another.  Citizens of recently admitted EU member states DO NOT have the right to work in the UK.
 
2014-03-12 01:20:41 AM

Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Flint Ironstag: AGremlin: Look at the top of your link:

Home  > Visas and immigration > EU, EEA and Commonwealth

By your reasoning, any Tom, Dick, or Harry (from any country) claiming to live with a European Partner or family member can send in a £55 application and "ta dah", they are a UK resident.  The link even says that as EU citizens, they are not required to establish residency.

I've been using the term residency in my case, but the actual terminology is Indefinite Leave to Remain. Not going to go into the time requirements for citizenship, because it varies depending on the specific situation.

Well, yes. That is the point. As an American you could marry an Italian or a Belgian and since they have the right to reside and work in the UK you can apply for residency.


You're over simplifying a process based on a link that doesn't apply in this case.

Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013.  So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

You are right in one regard, anyone can apply for residency.  But the process for non EU, non EEA, and non Commonwealth citizens is significantly different from the link you posted.  Giving people false information about the process solely based on your misunderstanding of a link is not acceptable.

You can AFAIK all you want, but it won't change the actual process for gaining residency and citizenship in the UK for people not from the areas listed in the link you posted.

What countries does it list?

because it says "You can apply for a residence card if you're from outside the European Economic Area (EEA)"

So that link and the process described is for people not from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, ...


It's not my job to do homework for you.  I've been through the process, paid the fees (they are much more than £55), taken the Life in the UK test....so I understand what is involved.  You obviously don't.

I just need to make sure people know that the information you are providing is incorrect.

I would hate for someone to get deported, arrested, or permanently banned from the UK based on the musing of a "Fark Immigration Attorney".
 
2014-03-12 01:23:15 AM

The Third Man: JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.

Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.


Some of the politest racists I've met are older British expats

They seem to have an almost imperialistic world view
 
2014-03-12 01:25:49 AM

loonatic112358: The Third Man: JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.

Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.

/Fact 1:  Prime Minister David Cameron wanted to limit yearly visas, including student visas, to 10,000 a year.  Because any more foreigners would surely overwhelm that country of 63 million.
//Fact 2:  Marrying a British citizen doesn't allow you to even apply for residency for five years.
///Fact 3:  You can be a full-time university student and a full-time employee and married to a UK citizen and still be rejected for permanent residency.  Which is why I am typing this from the US and not the UK.

Some of the politest racists I've met are older British expats

They seem to have an almost imperialistic world view


And racists is what they are, especially toward Europeans........nope, the English don't consider themselves to be European.
 
2014-03-12 01:28:30 AM

fredbox: Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.


Don't forget about the Birth Cheese.
 
2014-03-12 01:30:05 AM

fusillade762: The NHS has since dropped its bill but the Home Office is appealing the appeal

Yo dawg, we herd you like appeals...


An appeal a day
Keeps the doctors away!
 
2014-03-12 01:35:04 AM

Dwight_Yeast: fredbox: Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.

Don't forget about the Birth Cheese.


Mmmmmm birth cheese
 
2014-03-12 01:35:43 AM

OregonVet: Thanks Yawheh.

FTFY

You satanist?
Oh, that was a question?
 
2014-03-12 01:36:26 AM

loonatic112358: Dwight_Yeast: fredbox: Darn illegals getting free babies and ObamaPhones.

Don't forget about the Birth Cheese.

Mmmmmm birth cheese


img4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-12 01:37:30 AM
AGremlin, FlintIronstag

That link is for people who are family members of people who are from the EEA but who are not UK nationals. I appreciate that is not obvious from the wording of the page.

If a Thai man marries a French woman who is legally working in the UK under the UK's treaty agreement with France that Thai man can obtain a residency card by paying £55.

Unless a UK citizen attempts to exercise his or her Surinder Singh rights* that page is of no relevance to this case, or any other involving a UK citizen, whatsoever.

*Surinder Singh successfully argued that a non-EEA citizen, marrying a UK citizen who lived in another EEA country under its treaty agreement with the UK had the same right to residency as a non-EEA citizen marrying a non-UK EEA citizen living either in another country or the UK. He won, giving an alternative route to UK residency for, for (real) example, the American wife of a British person whose has lived and worked, full time, for three years, in Germany.
 
2014-03-12 01:42:09 AM

Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.


This.

If you Americans can't get your shiat together enough to provide healthcare for your own citizens, at least have the humility to accept your fate rather than suck off the teet of another country's socialism you haven't paid for and have no right to.. kthxbai!

/best healthcare in the world you keep saying
//for the 1%
 
2014-03-12 01:43:01 AM

FarkinNortherner: AGremlin: Look, I don't know if the guy was trying to dodge taxes....I doubt it since the U.S. applies a foreign earned income credit to any income earned in the UK, up to $93,000 in 2013. So he wouldn't be double taxed unless he earned more than that.

British personal taxation is (usually) higher than that in the US, so he would avoid taxes by not declaring his earnings to HMRC. This is legal for a non-resident, but is not legal for an ordinary resident.


Agreed.

My point was he would not be doubled taxed if he earned income in the UK (up to the credit limit).  From the article it seems like he earned most of his income outside of the UK anyway.

Did he fark up?  Yes.  Should the UK taxpayers pay for it?  No.
 
2014-03-12 01:59:32 AM

Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.


So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.
 
2014-03-12 02:23:33 AM
Please be in no doubt - if that guy was being deported to India or Nigeria, the tone of this Daily Mail article would be somewhat different.

Also, everything FarkinNortherner said.
 
2014-03-12 02:25:56 AM

untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.


He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.
 
2014-03-12 03:10:26 AM

gwowen: untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.

He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.


I'm not saying that he is necessarily paying everything, but his property taxes, tv taxes, carbon taxes, road taxes, gas taxes, telephone taxes, and whatever other taxes exist in the area he lives in - he pays those. Also, he pays income tax to the American IRS even though he doesn't live there. Finally, he's supporting his wife, a British citizen, who does pay the taxes you described...with his money.
 
2014-03-12 03:47:11 AM
The Third Man:
Having been an immigrant to the UK myself, I can tell you that the UK is one of the most anti-immigrant nations in the world.  Once I'd been married to a UK citizen and lived there long enough to acquire a passable British accent, I heard some incredible anti-foreigner abuse.  The kind of stuff that Tea Party members would know better not to say in public, average English folks had no trouble casually saying to me.  A real eye-opener.  Mind you many of them were incredibly embarrassed when they found out I wasn't one of them, but I have no doubt they kept their views.


 You described a few people, not a nation. The UK is one of one of the most pro-immigrant nations in the world. Although, I admit the people there are shamefully white so we must hold them to Jesus-like standards.
Are the natives of a land not allowed to voice displeasure towards a change in their homeland that was never taken to vote?
The Native Americans are free to hate me as much as they want, and why should I care what they say behind my back? The people with power are on my side so their words are meaningless.
 
2014-03-12 04:20:26 AM

SlothB77: government-run health care.  just wait until we start doing that.


If the government-run health care in England is so horrible, why is it a tragedy that he's getting deported from there to the country with "the best healthcare system in the world"?
 
2014-03-12 05:52:06 AM
There's no tax benefit to not applying for residency. HMRC only care about how long much time you're spending in the country, they don't care about your right to be there. You could be an illegal immigrant and they would see it as none of their business, as long as you pay what you owe.

That said, there is a section of British society that are farking xenophobic, best to stay away from small towns and depressed ex-industrial cities. And we're currently burdened with a Conservative government who are obsessed with immigrants, taxes and the NHS (they don't like any of those things) so shiatty situations like this can happen.

/UK immigrant
//in London, where it's safe
 
2014-03-12 06:49:40 AM

Bad_Seed: There's no tax benefit to not applying for residency. HMRC only care about how long much time you're spending in the country, they don't care about your right to be there.


It's more nuanced than that.

While it's true that any domiciled person is liable for taxes, a business visitor, which is what he appears to be based on Daily Mail 'facts', cannot ever become domiciled in the UK and will therefore neither pay UK taxes nor benefit from UK public funds (of any sort.)

HMRC normally regards anyone on a resident visa as being domiciled in the UK, giving that person both the right to NHS treatment, unless that person maintains visa status and declares non-domiciled status.

The person in TFA appears to have been living in the UK while maintaining the fabrication of not being domiciled here. That would result in not paying UK taxes and in having no recourse either to public or private non-emergent treatment.
 
2014-03-12 07:20:04 AM

JosephFinn: The irony of this story being in the anti-immigrant, anti-health care Daily Fail is almost immeasurable.


Well, they are white and he seems to be some sort of business executive.

Therefore its a travesty that he couldn't stay despite farking up the visa process.
 
2014-03-12 09:18:40 AM

Hiro-ACiD: Prey4reign: Go die from cancer elsewhere, please.

This.

If you Americans can't get your shiat together enough to provide healthcare for your own citizens, at least have the humility to accept your fate rather than suck off the teet of another country's socialism you haven't paid for and have no right to.. kthxbai!

/best healthcare in the world you keep saying
//for the 1%


Little known fact (even to most Muricans):  The #1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the US is due to unplayable medical bills.  THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WITH UNPLAYABLE MEDICAL BILLS HAD PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE.  Yup, in the US of Murica, you can have health insurance, become ill, and end up bankrupt....lose your home, cars, savings, everything.  I know people that it's happened to.
 
2014-03-12 09:21:34 AM

WhoopAssWayne: Suckmaster Burstingfoam: They also have a mandatory church, the head of which is their own Queen. Fine separation of church and state! No wonder they lost to Hitler.

Funny, I don't recall mandatory church or losing to Hitler in either country.


It was shortly after he bombed Pearl Harbor.
 
2014-03-12 09:35:25 AM

Starshines: Maybe he was asked to leave because he's clearly feeling up his daughter in photos.


Came here to say "Hey dad, watch your hands."
 
2014-03-12 09:37:00 AM

gwowen: untaken_name: Radak: Nanny state deports U.S. citizen for. A) Terrorist activities. B) Tax fraud. C) Having cancerBeing a dumbass

FTFSubby

Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status when he married Mrs Marx in 2001

Bad move.  Sorry about your cancer.

So he can still pay local taxes, just not realize any benefit from them? You're all heart.

He deliberately maintained the status that meant he didn't pay local income tax or National Insurance (single-payer health care tax). Turns out, there's a downside to that if you become seriously ill.


National Insurance is nothing to do with healthcare. It funds pensions, welfare etc. The NHS is funded from general taxation.
 
2014-03-12 09:40:02 AM

FarkinNortherner: AGremlin, FlintIronstag

That link is for people who are family members of people who are from the EEA but who are not UK nationals. I appreciate that is not obvious from the wording of the page.

If a Thai man marries a French woman who is legally working in the UK under the UK's treaty agreement with France that Thai man can obtain a residency card by paying £55.

Unless a UK citizen attempts to exercise his or her Surinder Singh rights* that page is of no relevance to this case, or any other involving a UK citizen, whatsoever.

*Surinder Singh successfully argued that a non-EEA citizen, marrying a UK citizen who lived in another EEA country under its treaty agreement with the UK had the same right to residency as a non-EEA citizen marrying a non-UK EEA citizen living either in another country or the UK. He won, giving an alternative route to UK residency for, for (real) example, the American wife of a British person whose has lived and worked, full time, for three years, in Germany.


Which is what I have been saying all along. But I used the example of an American marrying an Italian or Belgian.
 
2014-03-12 11:05:36 AM

Jim_Callahan: I guess Somalia's are probably somewhat more lenient since it doesn't have an immigration office at all and you can just show up, I assume.


Surely you can just show up and the immigration office probably won't notice but they do have an immigration office.


http://slimmigration.zzl.org/Visa.html
 
2014-03-12 12:52:34 PM
All the butthurt aside -- the father was NOT a permanent resident but only on a 6 month visa.

The more important question is, since he married a UK citizen, fathered a UK child, why didn't he apply for residency? If he had, he wouldn't have had this problem.

Personal responsibility, FTW.
 
2014-03-12 02:17:18 PM

AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.


It could have been a way to avoid taxes as well, if he only visited the UK he didn't have the right to work.

If he worked mainly in foreign countries then the US wouldn't tax his worldwide income until he made over $95,000 USD and then since he wasn't officially living in the UK, no taxes there either.
 
2014-03-12 10:36:10 PM

Snuffybud: "He is currently in remission but has not had access to his medical team since he has been away. Furthermore, he is unable to work because he does not have his passport."

He's stuck here in the US because they threw him out, so he's here now. Since when does a US citizen need a passport to work in the US??


"but his work for an international company meant he often travelled abroad on business"
 
2014-03-12 10:46:51 PM

Spiralmonkey: AGremlin: It sounds like his work required him to be out of the UK for extended periods of time.  This would have made it difficult for him to meet time in country requirements to establish residency.

He was in a bit of Catch 22 situation.

He is married to an English woman and he could have applied any time he liked. This sounds much more like a tax dodge, getting his salary paid offshore type of thing where he doesn't have to contribute a penny to the NHS which he then needed later. He has health insurance, why not get them to pay up what the owes?

From TFA "Mr Marx chose not to apply for residency status."

He chose to remain a US citizen and not pay anything into the NHS, that's his choice to make. He chose to have private health insurance. I've looked down the back of the sofa, under the mat, behind the TV and I can't seem to find a fark to give.


Doesn't a US citizen working and living overseas still have to pay tax in the US? I suspect that he thought if he became a UK citizen he might have to give up his US citizenship. I'm not sure if that's true or not but he may have thought it was.

He wanted to use his private insurance but the NHS insisted that he should use the public system. This sounds like a case of Home Office stupidity. His wife should start a petition on change.org.
 
2014-03-13 07:25:54 AM

kg2095: Doesn't a US citizen working and living overseas still have to pay tax in the US?


Yes.

I suspect that he thought if he became a UK citizen he might have to give up his US citizenship. I'm not sure if that's true or not but he may have thought it was.

It is not true.

He wanted to use his private insurance but the NHS insisted that he should use the public system. This sounds like a case of Home Office stupidity. His wife should start a petition on change.org.

Private medical insurance is not valid for non-emergent treatment while on any visitor visa.

This chap was (again based on Daily Mail 'facts') entirely hoist with his own petard.
 
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