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(SFGate)   Well of course if you spend $165 million every year on the homeless in your city it's only going to encourage more homeless people to move there   (sfgate.com) divider line 102
    More: Obvious, San Francisco, homeless  
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5511 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2014 at 9:21 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-11 07:43:10 PM
It's obviously a big problem in San Francisco, but I don't think that's how it works, subby.
 
2014-03-11 07:44:54 PM
To put this into perspective, the population of SF is 825K.  So basically 1% of the people in SF are homeless.

And since their population density is ~17K people per square mile, that gives you 170 homeless people per square mile of land.

Or in other words, the homeless density of SF is the population density of the state of Michigan:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_densi t y
 
2014-03-11 07:58:50 PM
eftimov.net
 
2014-03-11 07:59:43 PM

meyerkev: To put this into perspective, the population of SF is 825K.  So basically 1% of the people in SF are homeless.

And since their population density is ~17K people per square mile, that gives you 170 homeless people per square mile of land.

Or in other words, the homeless density of SF is the population density of the state of Michigan:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_densi t y


LA County alone has about the same number of people as the entire state of Michigan. That one always amazed me.
 
2014-03-11 08:42:02 PM
img1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-03-11 09:25:38 PM
God forbid the downtrodden are treated decently; it will only encourage them.
 
2014-03-11 09:28:09 PM
Came for the Southpark reference. Leaving happy.

Also unsure how I feel about the homeless. I mean, its a serious issue, but I've heard of well off people taking up panhandling as a hobby because it can be good money. Thus, I want to do something, but inherently distrust the people who look the part.

So in the end, its just donating to well researched organisations or community service.
 
2014-03-11 09:28:13 PM
A city that DOESN'T torment and oppress the homeless? SOHSHULIZZIM!
 
2014-03-11 09:29:31 PM
Uh, subby, did you read the article? It says the opposite of your headline. Unlike other major cities SF hasn't seen major growth in the homeless population.
 
2014-03-11 09:30:49 PM
By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)
 
2014-03-11 09:33:05 PM
So, wouldn't they be better off to just give each of the homeless $20,000 each and send them to rural Missouri, or directly rent tiny little apartments or FEMA trailers for them or something?  That's an enormous amount of money.
 
2014-03-11 09:33:32 PM
SF's problems with the homeless sort of boil down to:

1. Climate -- if you're homeless in SF, you don't really have to move out in the winter.

2. Throwing money at the problem instead of thinking it through -- They never add basic shiat like tracking or employment subsidies, it's always just buying people a sandwich or whatever.  Which fixes the problem for 6 hours at a time, sure, but you need to at least make a minimal effort to think long-term.  SF is in central CA, that's one of the deepest financial holes to climb out of in the US to begin with... they're not helping by having essentially no employment assistance or drug rehab in their programs.
 
2014-03-11 09:33:55 PM
Lets see...

$165,000,000 / 7,350 Total homeless population of SF as quoted in article =   $22,449 spent per homeless person.  I know it's SF but that seems a little high.
 
2014-03-11 09:35:40 PM
3:15 And Republican Jesus said: slay the weak, for they are a burden unto thy father
 
2014-03-11 09:35:50 PM
MARCH THEM INTO THE SEA! ohhh.....sorry. My Republican alter ego got loose there for a sec. All better now. DOWN! DOWN I SAY!
 
2014-03-11 09:44:42 PM

Jim_Callahan: 2. Throwing money at the problem instead of thinking it through -- They never add basic shiat like tracking or employment subsidies, it's always just buying people a sandwich or whatever. Which fixes the problem for 6 hours at a time, sure, but you need to at least make a minimal effort to think long-term. SF is in central CA, that's one of the deepest financial holes to climb out of in the US to begin with... they're not helping by having essentially no employment assistance or drug rehab in their programs.


Actually, it's primarily housing, FTA: "San Francisco's budget is nearly $8 billion and of the $165 million it spends on homeless services every year, by far the biggest portion - $81.5 million - is spent on supportive housing. Fried argued that makes sense because studies have consistently shown it's less expensive to house people than provide emergency services on the streets. " It's also things like employment services, http://www.sfhsa.org/276.htm, help with health care including mental health, http://www.sfhsa.org/80.htm, etc.

Also one nitpick, San Francisco is not in central California. It's in neither the central valley region of the central coast region. The bay area is considered northern California.
 
2014-03-11 09:45:14 PM
I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.
 
2014-03-11 09:49:48 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)


This is true for adults. For youth, it's often a lifestyle which should be corrected.
 
2014-03-11 09:52:05 PM
I've traveled a bit and seen homeless folks all around and from multiple continents, but I've never run into homeless folk that felt more entitled and were harder to please than in San Francisco.  Even when I was giving them a couple bucks they still seemed to get insulted by it...  Maybe I just had a bad experience, but SF seemed like a whole different world when it came to the transients...
 
2014-03-11 09:54:20 PM

Jim_Callahan: SF's problems with the homeless sort of boil down to:

1. Climate -- if you're homeless in SF, you don't really have to move out in the winter.

2. Throwing money at the problem instead of thinking it through -- They never add basic shiat like tracking or employment subsidies, it's always just buying people a sandwich or whatever.  Which fixes the problem for 6 hours at a time, sure, but you need to at least make a minimal effort to think long-term.  SF is in central CA, that's one of the deepest financial holes to climb out of in the US to begin with... they're not helping by having essentially no employment assistance or drug rehab in their programs.


3. Exorbitant rents.
 
2014-03-11 09:55:18 PM

Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.


Try Telegraph avenue in Berkley. It's worse.
 
2014-03-11 09:55:37 PM
Wait, isn't this what the Mystery Google Barge is for?  Put all the homeless in shipping container house units and tow them around the Bay... Sweet.
 
2014-03-11 09:56:22 PM

Jim_Callahan: SF's problems with the homeless sort of boil down to:

1. Climate -- if you're homeless in SF, you don't really have to move out in the winter.

2. Throwing money at the problem instead of thinking it through -- They never add basic shiat like tracking or employment subsidies, it's always just buying people a sandwich or whatever.  Which fixes the problem for 6 hours at a time, sure, but you need to at least make a minimal effort to think long-term.  SF is in central CA, that's one of the deepest financial holes to climb out of in the US to begin with... they're not helping by having essentially no employment assistance or drug rehab in their programs.


I'm not so sure of that. The first time I visited SF I nearly froze my balls off. 92 degrees in San Jose, went downtown SF and it was 61. Next time I was there I made sure to carry long pants and a hoodie with me.
 
2014-03-11 10:00:04 PM

fusillade762: Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.

Try Telegraph avenue in Berkley. It's worse.


I wish I had a good solution for the homeless. I try not to be a dick but my observations suggest that it's true, giving money to the homeless is like feeding feral animals. It seems like the humane thing to do, but it makes the problem worse.

I wouldn't mind beggars if so many weren't so aggressive. Or maybe if they would do something in return. Adopt a section of the sidewalk or an intersection and keep it clean. A few minutes with a broom or trash bag earns a lot of sympathy.
 
2014-03-11 10:00:40 PM

nilThreek: I've traveled a bit and seen homeless folks all around and from multiple continents, but I've never run into homeless folk that felt more entitled and were harder to please than in San Francisco.  Even when I was giving them a couple bucks they still seemed to get insulted by it...  Maybe I just had a bad experience, but SF seemed like a whole different world when it came to the transients...


Concur.  And crazier than usual.  I've talked with homeless in Chicago, LA, San Diego, and some other international places.  They were, generally, soft spoken if a little spacey.  But just about all the ones that I encountered in SF (years and years ago) were intensely and boisterously crazy; to Jerky Boys character proportions.

I realize that the word data is not the plural form of anecdote, but that was my experience.
 
2014-03-11 10:07:37 PM

Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.


In what should be a surprise to nobody panhandlers tend to congregate in higher concentrations where there is a lot of foot traffic, especially tourist areas. While there certainly areas of the city where there are an incredible number of homeless (the worst being the tenderloin/union square area, the haight, and parts of the the mission) there are also sections of the city where seeing a homeless person is a rarity. Union Square, where most visitors get to see the city's homeless problem up close, is especially bad since it is one of the biggest tourist areas and it is adjacent to the worst neighborhood in the city where most of the homeless reside. It is somewhat ironic that the expensive shopping district is right next to cracktown central.
 
2014-03-11 10:11:43 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)


Yeah, but that costs money, and what do you do when they stop taking their meds or going to therapy?  We cannot go back to the days of grabbing them and tossing them in an asylum to rot.
 
2014-03-11 10:12:39 PM
The friendliest, most easy-going homeless people are in DC, in my opinion.  Since we're comparing homeless people here.

Santa Monica has a good-sized homeless population as well.  But no place beats San Francisco for human excement on the sidewalks.
 
2014-03-11 10:16:12 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)


True. And it'd be very wise to invest some of those dollars on folks that haven't fully lost it yet. Mental health care is a travesty in the US.
 
2014-03-11 10:16:33 PM
Hobos been roaming the states for years.

I met a guy who summered in Kenosha, WI.  He'd head west every winter to pan handle and come spring time he'd show back up. He slept by the lake a lot. Wore a Rolex watch and had a nice BMW he would only drive to see his doctor once a month. He liked to hang out at the hipstar dive beer bar downtown, I think they called him Smiling Jack.
 
2014-03-11 10:16:47 PM
FTFA - Sherilyn Adams is the executive director of Youth Services, which works to get homeless youth off the streets. She said that in any given year, 5,700 people ages 12 through 24...

Gods, here we go again... that age range is not correct. Once you hit 18-19, you are a young adult... NOT a 'youth'. If this keeps up, soon we are going to be reading about "kids 12-30"!

/while it is true that some people are mentally adults when they are 15, and some are not even close to it when they hit 40, the fact remains that this grouping is more a reference to all the helicopter parenting than any actual attempt to ascertain an age of responsibility. If you can be put into a war when you are 18, you should be considered an adult. Regardless of what the money-grubbing medical industry wants you to think (and I assure you this is what is really going on).
 
2014-03-11 10:20:37 PM
James-you're not a dick.  My experience in working with the homeless is if they panhandle you, tell them you'll buy them a sandwich...guarantee they move on.  They don't want food-they want booze or drug money.  Mental health issues are what they need to be focusing on.
 
2014-03-11 10:21:00 PM

meat0918: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)

Yeah, but that costs money, and what do you do when they stop taking their meds or going to therapy?  We cannot go back to the days of grabbing them and tossing them in an asylum to rot.


NY is actually doing something to deal with those who won't take meds. Its some kind of supervised outpatient. Supposedly for the craziest of the crazies, and only those who won't stay on meds.

Can't recall the program tho
 
2014-03-11 10:21:02 PM

James10952001: I wish I had a good solution for the homeless. I try not to be a dick but my observations suggest that it's true, giving money to the homeless is like feeding feral animals. It seems like the humane thing to do, but it makes the problem worse.


It also encourages neighboring states like Nevada to drop their hopeless-case mentally ill onto interstate buses for a 1-way trip to San Francisco, and voila, not their problem anymore.
 
2014-03-11 10:24:58 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)


Lots of homeless people don't eat out of garbage cans, and some have jobs.

I had a job and was homeless when I was 21.
 
2014-03-11 10:25:55 PM
Someone should make some sort of modest proposal.
 
2014-03-11 10:25:59 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: By and large the homeless don't lack food, or shelter, or jobs, they lack adequate mental health treatment. Focus on the cause (mental illness) and you'll fix the symptoms (wandering the streets, eating food out of garbage cans, being unable to hold down a job)


And/or alcohol or drug addiction.

The visibly homeless are the most
Severe cases. Panhandlers/winos, etc.

The invisible homeless are the ones sleeping in cars, spending the day in the library, coffee shops.

Those people are generally employable and down on their luck.
 
2014-03-11 10:26:50 PM

James10952001: fusillade762: Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.

Try Telegraph avenue in Berkley. It's worse.

I wish I had a good solution for the homeless. I try not to be a dick but my observations suggest that it's true, giving money to the homeless is like feeding feral animals. It seems like the humane thing to do, but it makes the problem worse.

I wouldn't mind beggars if so many weren't so aggressive. Or maybe if they would do something in return. Adopt a section of the sidewalk or an intersection and keep it clean. A few minutes with a broom or trash bag earns a lot of sympathy.


A few minutes with a broom or a trash bag will not buy you your next fix/drink though, so why bother. There are some "normal" destitute people out there of course who actually care and want to do good, but they aint the ones pan handling. Pan handling is for straight cash to go score, to go pan handle, to score again...
 
2014-03-11 10:35:41 PM
I am just amazed the story was not about Petersburg Florida.

Worst homeless problem I have ever seen.  It made Honolulu look homeless-free.
 
2014-03-11 10:36:04 PM
 
2014-03-11 10:49:30 PM

eggrolls: It doesn't have to be a problem.

http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people -h omes-1390056183


I was talking about the homeless problem today with a coworker, and he changed his tune a bit when I brought up Utah's program (and by extension his church) is doing this.

It was amazing, and kinda creepy.
 
2014-03-11 10:51:22 PM

meat0918: eggrolls: It doesn't have to be a problem.

http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people -h omes-1390056183

I was talking about the homeless problem today with a coworker, and he changed his tune a bit when I brought up Utah's program (and by extension his church) is doing this.

It was amazing, and kinda creepy.


I'm probably reading to much into it really.
 
2014-03-11 10:57:22 PM

eggrolls: It doesn't have to be a problem.

http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people -h omes-1390056183


My bad.  I conflate the "homeless problem" with the "people with mental problems who should be institutionalized but sleep on sidewalks problem".  Free houses won't fix a mental health care problem.   But if that works with the "working poor", outstanding work there.
 
2014-03-11 10:59:15 PM

Laobaojun: eggrolls: It doesn't have to be a problem.

http://www.nationofchange.org/utah-ending-homelessness-giving-people -h omes-1390056183

My bad.  I conflate the "homeless problem" with the "people with mental problems who should be institutionalized but sleep on sidewalks problem".  Free houses won't fix a mental health care problem.   But if that works with the "working poor", outstanding work there.


They couple it with social workers who get them mental health care too.
 
2014-03-11 11:09:59 PM

Caffienatedjedi: Came for the Southpark reference. Leaving happy.

Also unsure how I feel about the homeless. I mean, its a serious issue, but I've heard of well off people taking up panhandling as a hobby because it can be good money. Thus, I want to do something, but inherently distrust the people who look the part.

So in the end, its just donating to well researched organisations or community service.


Libby McLiblib here.

I live and work in NYC.

I have never given money to any homeless people.

Homeless want money for either 1) Drugs 2) Booze

You can always find social services when you are homeless that will give you food, or a place to stay, you won't get social services that will provide you for your vices.

There are of course people with deep rooted psych problems out there, who may need money for other things, but there is help for them as well.  It is not my responsibility to supplement your irresponsible ways.

Food and shelter are offered free, drugs and booze aren't.

Have a nice day.
 
2014-03-11 11:15:59 PM
Give a homeless man sandwich, feed him for 8 hours. Give a homeless man the lions at the zoo, feed the lions for 8 hours and have one less homeless person. 

Win-win, no?
 
2014-03-11 11:16:55 PM

fusillade762: Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.

Try Telegraph avenue in Berkley. It's worse.


Try Santa Cruz. It's worse
 
2014-03-11 11:17:39 PM

James10952001: Jim_Callahan: SF's problems with the homeless sort of boil down to:

1. Climate -- if you're homeless in SF, you don't really have to move out in the winter.

2. Throwing money at the problem instead of thinking it through -- They never add basic shiat like tracking or employment subsidies, it's always just buying people a sandwich or whatever.  Which fixes the problem for 6 hours at a time, sure, but you need to at least make a minimal effort to think long-term.  SF is in central CA, that's one of the deepest financial holes to climb out of in the US to begin with... they're not helping by having essentially no employment assistance or drug rehab in their programs.

I'm not so sure of that. The first time I visited SF I nearly froze my balls off. 92 degrees in San Jose, went downtown SF and it was 61. Next time I was there I made sure to carry long pants and a hoodie with me.


When was the last time San Francisco saw 2' of snow on the ground and temperatures never rose above freezing for a couple months?
 
2014-03-11 11:22:42 PM

Watubi: fusillade762: Walker: I've been all over the country and I've never encountered as many homeless people as I did in San Francisco. Every ten feet one of them would hit me up for money.

Try Telegraph avenue in Berkley. It's worse.

Try Santa Cruz. It's worse


What's crazier is that all these places have more panhandlers than Oakland (well, not Santa Cruz, not anymore at least).  Subby is right, though, the availability of services among other things brings panhandlers to SF.  My local bums here in Oakland can be found part time in SF because that's where the money is (but they live in Oakland - they're not homeless, just professional panhandlers).
 
2014-03-11 11:22:58 PM
If only there was some sort of island with institutional lodging near San Francisco where we could send them.
 
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