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(PennLive)   Like things like parmesan cheese, feta cheese, or even bologna? Those products might lose their names in the United States   (pennlive.com) divider line 192
    More: Interesting, U.S., Greek, greek yogurt, Parma, feta cheese, American Brands, Black Forest, parmesan  
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2014-03-11 10:42:54 PM
what about franco-american spaghetti?

i mean, he's still dead but his spaghetti lives on!
 
2014-03-11 10:43:46 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: finnished: Chill out. We already have a set of rules in the US defining what a product must be like to be sold under the name. It's called Standards of Identity for food. It already defines what qualities the product must have, like for example ice cream, mayo etc. etc. The production location could be just another quality.

So that's why a mixture of candle wax and melted brown crayon is called "chocolate" in the USA?


Breyer's got all pissy when someone pointed out their Girl Scout Cookie Frozen Dairy Dessert is actually frozen dairy dessert and not ice cream.  It may taste good, but it still isn't ice cream.

Chocolate is a little more lax.  Even the "best" chocolatiers I've found, with large claims of "fair trade" cocoa and other "organic" ingredients, still use soy lecithin in their chocolate.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 10:44:00 PM
Pecorino romano
Parmigiano-Reggiano
Grana Padano
Gorgonzola
Fior di latte
Mozzerela di Bufala

I can order all these online and have them FEDEX'd anywhere overnight.
$$$? yes, of course. But when you are in the sticks and still want to make a proper buffet di antipasti you pull out the stops.
How do they get around the regulations? Don't know. Don't give a damn. All I know is it is the real deal.
And I am one near-impossible-to-satisfy guinea. And if you think crap ingredients might slide past me, LOL.
I am 1st gen. I have cooked and eaten things some haven't ever heard of. Including Babaluci.
 
2014-03-11 10:45:21 PM
Well, y'all will be sorry when Spaghetti-o, Italy gets its revenge.
 
2014-03-11 10:46:27 PM

itcamefromschenectady: I'm saying that parmigiano reggiano is already restricted to genuine Italian product as far as I can tell, so I don't see why "parmesan" has to be


That was my impression as well.  It certainly makes sense based on the pricetag seen on the stuff, if nothing else.

If that is the case then the EU needs to SFTU.  You call it Parmesan, we call it Pamigiano Reggiano.  You call it a lift, we call it an elevator.  You throw extra u's into words, we strip them out.  The point is, if the basis for wanting these agreements is that there is a distinct nomenclature separation between the signature cheese of Parma, Italy and cheeses which merely taste identical, we're already there.  We're not going to let some other country get nitpickey and play language police with us.

Oh, and because I haven't said it yet, the Feta demand is complete crap and needs to be rejected flat out.  If Bulgaria can make a cheese they call Feta, we can too.
 
2014-03-11 10:46:30 PM

gja: Pecorino romano
Parmigiano-Reggiano
Grana Padano
Gorgonzola
Fior di latte
Mozzerela di Bufala

I can order all these online and have them FEDEX'd anywhere overnight.
$$$? yes, of course. But when you are in the sticks and still want to make a proper buffet di antipasti you pull out the stops.
How do they get around the regulations? Don't know. Don't give a damn. All I know is it is the real deal.
And I am one near-impossible-to-satisfy guinea. And if you think crap ingredients might slide past me, LOL.
I am 1st gen. I have cooked and eaten things some haven't ever heard of. Including Babaluci.


Is it Mozzerela di Bufala or Mozzerela di Bufala de Campana
 
2014-03-11 10:46:32 PM
I will admit I dont really care about food that much.  These threads are fascinating.
 
2014-03-11 10:48:43 PM

miss diminutive: So will the EU give up Manhattans, Long Island Iced Teas, Boston cream pies, Buffalo wings. Philly cheesesteaks, Key Lime pies, New York style pizzas, Mississippi Mud Pies, Monterey Jack cheese, New England clam chowder etc?


Lived in Europe for a couple of years. Never ever found these on a menu, so I don't think this is a threat.
 
2014-03-11 10:50:06 PM
Stupid short-sighted Europeans misunderestimate the power of American marketing and the stupidity of the American consumer.  Sure, go ahead and prevent us using your names.  Our cheese industry will just invent new names for the same stuff.  Names like Incream ®, Experior ®, Geologne ® meat, and Berwiford-Robusto ®.

And you know what?  We well sell the shiat out of it too.   Before long the peasants in Parma, Italy will shun the local Parmesan cheese in favor of green cylinders of Kraft Khrission ® cheese.  You know it is true.
 
2014-03-11 10:50:06 PM

Gunny Highway: I will admit I dont really care about food that much.  These threads are fascinating.


Some people are color blind and cannot enjoy the richness of their world of light.  Others are hearing-impaired and cannot experience the same textured soundscape as the rest of us. Still others have no palette...
 
2014-03-11 10:50:43 PM

Jim_Callahan: capt.hollister:So, it is your belief that the US is feeding the EU ?

All of it?  No.

Significant parts of it?  Yes.  Pretty much all of the ex-soviet parts of the union are still running significant agricultural deficits currently being filled mostly by the US.  Primarily grains, for obvious reasons.

It's one of the primary reasons... no, it's  the reason the US is still a superpower in world politics even two decades after the cold war ended.  Sure, we've got the military thing, but no one would put up with our military shiat (and we do require a lot of leeway/tolerance to pull most of it) were we not feeding a huge chunk of the globe.


No, the military thing is it, otherwise if the only metric is food exports Canada would also be considered a superpower.
 
2014-03-11 10:52:18 PM

whatshisname: BluVeinThrobber: What about French fries, Irish stew, and Pizza is definetly an issue

Those are recipes, not ingredients.


FTA   And it may not be just cheese, Other products could include bologna, Black Forrest ham,greek yougurt, ,,,,,,,
 
2014-03-11 10:55:39 PM

doyner: Gunny Highway: I will admit I dont really care about food that much.  These threads are fascinating.

Some people are color blind and cannot enjoy the richness of their world of light.  Others are hearing-impaired and cannot experience the same textured soundscape as the rest of us. Still others have no palette...


What, they can't paint like Bob Ross?
 
2014-03-11 10:56:42 PM

Spiralmonkey: What, they can't paint like Bob Ross?


Farking hell.  Palate.
 
2014-03-11 10:58:48 PM

doyner: Still others have no palette...


Yeah, that is me.  Dont care about the difference between "Mozzerela di Bufala or Mozzerela di Bufala de Campana" or ice cream and ice cream.

I enjoy cooking but I cant go crazy about specific ingredients.  I wasnt trying to insult you, more power to you if you have the interest to refine your palette.

If whatever follows the ellipsis is anything as ridiculous sounding as "the richness of their world of light,"  I am happy to be in the darkness without you.
 
2014-03-11 11:01:03 PM

Gunny Highway: doyner: Still others have no palette...

Yeah, that is me.  Dont care about the difference between "Mozzerela di Bufala or Mozzerela di Bufala de Campana" or ice cream and ice cream.

I enjoy cooking but I cant go crazy about specific ingredients.  I wasnt trying to insult you, more power to you if you have the interest to refine your palette.

If whatever follows the ellipsis is anything as ridiculous sounding as "the richness of their world of light,"  I am happy to be in the darkness without you.


That statement was a wink to the Mrs. regarding my partial color vision deficiency.

Meh.  Don't really care how it sounds.
 
2014-03-11 11:03:13 PM
In all reallity, all they would have to do is change the labels on  their export packaging. The laels are already different than domestic labels
 
2014-03-11 11:03:27 PM

doyner: Gunny Highway: doyner: Still others have no palette...

Yeah, that is me.  Dont care about the difference between "Mozzerela di Bufala or Mozzerela di Bufala de Campana" or ice cream and ice cream.

I enjoy cooking but I cant go crazy about specific ingredients.  I wasnt trying to insult you, more power to you if you have the interest to refine your palette.

If whatever follows the ellipsis is anything as ridiculous sounding as "the richness of their world of light,"  I am happy to be in the darkness without you.

That statement was a wink to the Mrs. regarding my partial color vision deficiency.

Meh.  Don't really care how it sounds.


Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...
 
2014-03-11 11:04:08 PM

doyner: capt.hollister: I can assure you that what you think of as "Italian" food isn't.  Not even what you order in an expensive New York restaurant. Not even what you eat at your friend Tony's house prepared by his mom who is a third generation descendant of immigrants.

Not only have we been desensitized by American products, but we've become accustomed to American ingredients.  Even if it is a first generation Italian cooking an authentic recipe, chances are it isn't going to be the same when done using the vast majority of produce here.


You are so right. This is something that has been driving me crazy for years. I have tried using the exact same brand of pasta, preparing a sauce using the exact same recipe, yet I cannot make a plate of spaghetti that tastes the same as what my elderly aunts in Italy prepare. Different growing conditions for the produce. Spices and herbs that travelled further or grew in a different soil. Even different water. These all conspire to make it impossible to reproduce a product in different parts of the globe.

I think this is an argument in favour of the EU's stance.
 
2014-03-11 11:06:16 PM
yukichigai:
Wasn't there a section in the Bible on this?

Yes. Search for "Blessed are the cheese makers [...]"

/Brussels can have their sprouts back
//just remind them that without us they'd be saluting a different flag while speaking a different language
///isn't there a statute of limitations for shiat we've been using for over 100 years?
 
2014-03-11 11:06:58 PM

Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...


Drinking Stella right now myself.
 
2014-03-11 11:07:44 PM
Oh no, it's a duplicate thread from a week ago that has twice as many comments.  Let's all panic.  I can't believe how stupid we all are for not going back through Fark's history to find the original and authentic thread.  This has now changed my opinion on EU cheeses.  I think we should rename all our products immediately.  I demand action.  And this thread should be abandoned, everyone who participated should be banned, perhaps even permanently.
 
2014-03-11 11:08:19 PM

DigitalCoffee: ///isn't there a statute of limitations for shiat we've been using for over 100 years?


You mean the Statue of Liberty that our dear allies, the French gave us to commemorate the bond between us after playing a critical role in helping us shed the Crown?
 
2014-03-11 11:09:56 PM

capt.hollister: I have tried using the exact same brand of pasta, preparing a sauce using the exact same recipe, yet I cannot make a plate of spaghetti that tastes the same as what my elderly aunts in Italy prepare.


That's because Italian ingredients (particularly in Campana, BTW) stand on their own.  That's why Italian cooking is so damned simple IMO.
 
2014-03-11 11:10:55 PM
Expect more imposition of foreign laws as imposed by trade agreements. Oh well, we already squandered our independence after 9/11 anyway.
 
2014-03-11 11:11:51 PM

doyner: Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...

Drinking Stella right now myself.


So Bud.
 
2014-03-11 11:14:41 PM

Gunny Highway: doyner: Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...

Drinking Stella right now myself.

So Bud.


It's called EuroBud.
 
2014-03-11 11:15:14 PM

doyner: Gunny Highway: doyner: Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...

Drinking Stella right now myself.

So Bud.

It's called EuroBud.


Ha!  Cheers to that.
 
2014-03-11 11:17:11 PM

doyner: If we had parmesan mozzarella or feta in this country, sure, that'd be annoying.  Seeing as we have only colored and flavored plastic in our supermarkets, I see no reason for outrage.


There are some companies that have pretty good/acceptable 'artisan' style cheeses in the country, but they're few and far between... I've had some pretty good fresh mozzarella from an American company, and there is even a brand or two of feta that aren't bad. The problem is an awful lot of them are absolutely horrid; idiots who think feta is nothing but salt, parmesan comes from a shaker can, and mozzarella can bounce to the farking ceiling for example.

Real parmesan is freaking awesome, and that shiat from Kraft can't come even within satellite-based telescope distance of seeing it. A true feta should be salty yes, but with tang and subtle nuances of grass (and preferably made from sheep's milk). Not that the fake parm doesn't have its place... Get a fairly good pre-grated variety and put that shiat on popcorn with some olive oil and pepper? Darn tasty.
 
2014-03-11 11:18:37 PM

Carousel Beast: OgreMagi: cptjeff: The EU can fark off.

The EU will ban American products in the same category if we don't go along.  For example, if California sparkling wines were labeled "Champagne" or simply said "champagne method", ALL American wines would be banned in the entire EU.

The EU would lose that trade war - badly.

Place names are cute, but a product is defined by its method and/or composition, not the first place it was made.


There is nothing stopping anyone from using the same methods, they just can't use the name that has been historically associated with the product.  We're talking about stuff with hundreds of years of history, not some new product hitting the market for the very first time.  Also, those locations and methods are often legally tied together.  For example, for a rated wine from Bordeaux, they are only allowed to use certain types of grapes, which must be grown at chateux where they are bottled.  Deviate from those laws, and it's basically generic bulk (box) wine.
 
2014-03-11 11:21:18 PM

TV's Vinnie: OgreMagi: TV's Vinnie: OgreMagi: cptjeff: The EU can fark off.

The EU will ban American products in the same category if we don't go along.  For example, if California sparkling wines were labeled "Champagne" or simply said "champagne method", ALL American wines would be banned in the entire EU.

Since when does the EU buy American Cheese or wines? Before he got croaked, Steve Irwin used to campaign & lobby Australian authorities to ban American cheeses from it's shores.

I don't know about our cheese, but California wine is quite popular in Europe.

Which may explain the REAL reason why the EU wineries are whining: to thwart the competition.


The labeling laws didn't reduce the popularity of California wines.  The good European wines aren't biatching about the competition, but a high end Burgundy doesn't want its "brand" diluted by the crappy box wine calling itself Burgundy.  I can't say I blame them.
 
2014-03-11 11:29:50 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: finnished: Chill out. We already have a set of rules in the US defining what a product must be like to be sold under the name. It's called Standards of Identity for food. It already defines what qualities the product must have, like for example ice cream, mayo etc. etc. The production location could be just another quality.

So that's why a mixture of candle wax and melted brown crayon is called "chocolate" in the USA?


The easiest way to piss off one of my nieces is to offer her a Hershey bar.  Be prepared for a very long rant about that not being chocolate, though.

I agree with her.
 
2014-03-11 11:32:15 PM

catzies: dprathb


I was referring to their own sparkling wines they made from grapes grown in this country, USA.  Prior to that time, M&C used 'Champagne' on some of their domestic (USA) wines.  Twas about the time Washington State was beginning to make an impression.
 
2014-03-11 11:32:25 PM

doyner: capt.hollister: I have tried using the exact same brand of pasta, preparing a sauce using the exact same recipe, yet I cannot make a plate of spaghetti that tastes the same as what my elderly aunts in Italy prepare.

That's because Italian ingredients (particularly in Campana, BTW) stand on their own.  That's why Italian cooking is so damned simple IMO.


My family is in Piemonte and Lombardia in northern Italy where the local dishes are completely different from anything generally thought of as Italian food (probably because Piemonte, in particular, does not share much history with the rest of Italy, but that's a different subject) being made up mostly of things like rice, polenta, cheeses, grilled meats, cured meats and venison.  But even though they live nowhere near Campania and despite the fact that spaghetti has only become popular in the second half of their lives (before the 70s it was really only popular in the centre and south), my aunts all make it so much tastier.

FSM damn it, we even have a herb garden in the backyard, but still cannot reproduce the exact flavours.
 
2014-03-11 11:33:20 PM

Carousel Beast: TheDeathMerchant: vpb: It would be a good thing if they actually had to taste something like what they are called, but the whole business about having to make it in a certain place seems unreasonable.


We want China to quit counterfeiting our intellectual property, Europe's pretty much just asking for the same thing.

We already do it with wine. Things like cheese, (especially cheese, that's a big deal over there), work the same way over there. The region it's made in, where the majority of them derive their names, plays a large part in the final product.

Which intellectual property are we taking, pray tell?


The technical term is that these items maintain a "protected status" in much of the world.

For example, Champagne. Aside from a couple producers in the US who were grandfathered in during the law put forth in 2006, no one in the wine producing world can make a drink of fermented grape juice called Champagne unless they use the same 3 grapes, make it in a specific method, and most importantly, are located in the Champagne region of France. This applies to most types of European  or "old world" wines, especially since they are blends of grape, whereas new world wines tend to be labeled by their varietal, provided that the labeled varietal is at least 80% (I believe, could be as high as 95%, I'm fuzzy on this) of that specific varietal.

These protected statuses also apply to cheeses, and in some cases some cured meats.

Another fine example - Kobe beef. You can't legally call it that unless the beef is from a wagyu steer, raised in Kobe prefecture, and cared for in a specific manner. Especially since the item carries a certain reputation and a certain price point. It's not just about protecting the original producers (which Americans really could care less about), and more about protecting consumers from being swindled.

How pissed would you be if you shelled out for a Kobe beef Filet Mignon and found out it was a crappy heap of black angus scraps meat-glued together?
 
2014-03-11 11:35:05 PM

doyner: Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...

Drinking Stella right now myself.


That's Europe's version of Coors Lite.  It's an insult to even call it beer.
 
2014-03-11 11:37:25 PM

capt.hollister: doyner: capt.hollister: I have tried using the exact same brand of pasta, preparing a sauce using the exact same recipe, yet I cannot make a plate of spaghetti that tastes the same as what my elderly aunts in Italy prepare.

That's because Italian ingredients (particularly in Campana, BTW) stand on their own.  That's why Italian cooking is so damned simple IMO.

My family is in Piemonte and Lombardia in northern Italy where the local dishes are completely different from anything generally thought of as Italian food (probably because Piemonte, in particular, does not share much history with the rest of Italy, but that's a different subject) being made up mostly of things like rice, polenta, cheeses, grilled meats, cured meats and venison.  But even though they live nowhere near Campania and despite the fact that spaghetti has only become popular in the second half of their lives (before the 70s it was really only popular in the centre and south), my aunts all make it so much tastier.

FSM damn it, we even have a herb garden in the backyard, but still cannot reproduce the exact flavours.


That's because the Italians haven't traded flavor for volume.
 
2014-03-11 11:38:46 PM

OgreMagi: doyner: Gunny Highway: Cheers to that.  What will you have?  I got Coors and Bud...

Drinking Stella right now myself.

That's Europe's version of Coors Lite.  It's an insult to even call it beer.


I know.  But I don't try to call it Chimay, either.
 
2014-03-11 11:41:52 PM

doyner: capt.hollister: doyner: capt.hollister: I have tried using the exact same brand of pasta, preparing a sauce using the exact same recipe, yet I cannot make a plate of spaghetti that tastes the same as what my elderly aunts in Italy prepare.

That's because Italian ingredients (particularly in Campana, BTW) stand on their own.  That's why Italian cooking is so damned simple IMO.

My family is in Piemonte and Lombardia in northern Italy where the local dishes are completely different from anything generally thought of as Italian food (probably because Piemonte, in particular, does not share much history with the rest of Italy, but that's a different subject) being made up mostly of things like rice, polenta, cheeses, grilled meats, cured meats and venison.  But even though they live nowhere near Campania and despite the fact that spaghetti has only become popular in the second half of their lives (before the 70s it was really only popular in the centre and south), my aunts all make it so much tastier.

FSM damn it, we even have a herb garden in the backyard, but still cannot reproduce the exact flavours.

That's because the Italians haven't traded flavor for volume.


...how is volume related to his story about not being able to recreate the flavor or his aunt's food?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-03-11 11:45:23 PM

meat0918: gja: Pecorino romano
Parmigiano-Reggiano
Grana Padano
Gorgonzola
Fior di latte
Mozzerela di Bufala

I can order all these online and have them FEDEX'd anywhere overnight.
$$$? yes, of course. But when you are in the sticks and still want to make a proper buffet di antipasti you pull out the stops.
How do they get around the regulations? Don't know. Don't give a damn. All I know is it is the real deal.
And I am one near-impossible-to-satisfy guinea. And if you think crap ingredients might slide past me, LOL.
I am 1st gen. I have cooked and eaten things some haven't ever heard of. Including Babaluci.

Is it Mozzerela di Bufala or Mozzerela di Bufala de di Campana


That is a trademark. Not all are sourced thus. Leave off the ref to the beasts from that region, for local buffalo.
I wouldn't bother trying to have it shipped from Campania. I don't have that kind of cash.

BTW, there is a province in Puglia that is my ancestral origin. And many there are tangentially related to my family tree.
Very, very cool times.
 
2014-03-11 11:58:32 PM

OgreMagi: The labeling laws didn't reduce the popularity of California wines. The good European wines aren't biatching about the competition, but a high end Burgundy doesn't want its "brand" diluted by the crappy box wine calling itself Burgundy. I can't say I blame them.


www.passionvines.com
 
2014-03-12 12:09:17 AM

doyner: Seeing as we have only colored and flavored plastic in our supermarkets, I see no reason for outrage.


Stop looking in refrigerated section next to the eggs and yogurt.  Look over in the deli section instead.  That's where they tend to keep the real cheese.
 
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