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(RealClear)   Supreme Court issues a Writ of "not gonna touch THIS with a ten foot pole" in a suit between the Episcopal church and a breakaway congregation over who owns a historic church and related property   (realclear.com) divider line 54
    More: Obvious, Supreme Court, Catholic school, Virginia Supreme Court, Falls Church  
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4426 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Mar 2014 at 1:53 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-11 12:17:35 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-03-11 12:24:24 PM
img.fark.net

I DO NOT CARE
ONE WRIT.
 
2014-03-11 12:24:59 PM
Yates said the vast majority of the congregation has remained with him since the split. They typically hold services in a nearby Catholic high school, and he estimated attendance of more than 2,000 at weekly services - nearly the size of the congregation before the 2006 split.

...

The Falls Church Episcopal congregation, which had been displaced until it was allowed back onto the property in the summer of 2012, has about 200 or so attending Sunday services, said its rector, Rev. John Ohmer.

"It continues to be a diverse group," Ohmer said. "Our doors are wide open to everyone."


I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.  Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end.  Everyone else will eventually let go.
 
2014-03-11 12:28:32 PM
"If you are in a marriage that is failing, that is just not working, sometimes divorce is necessary," he said. "We feel we did the right thing, and as difficult as it was, I would not do it differently."

Well, that's fitting, considering the loser was the Anglican Church of America.
 
2014-03-11 12:32:48 PM
What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.
 
2014-03-11 12:34:49 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.


On the contrary, I could see progressive churches shifting to a psychological therapy-based service, with counseling instead of prayer, and ministers with psych degrees rather than or in addition to theology degrees. Like, you go to the doctor if you've got an injury, or you go to the church if you've got depression or anxiety.
 
2014-03-11 12:38:28 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends. Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end. Everyone else will eventually let go.


Progressive Christianity, which you can find in the Catholic Church and some progressive evangelical churches is great. Huge emphasis on social justice and helping the poor, the sick and the helpless, not as much on "You're going to hell."
 
2014-03-11 12:44:25 PM

RexTalionis: Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends. Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end. Everyone else will eventually let go.

Progressive Christianity, which you can find in the Catholic Church and some progressive evangelical churches is great. Huge emphasis on social justice and helping the poor, the sick and the helpless, not as much on "You're going to hell."


Episcopals are generally progressive as well. Except for these cases where they want to split off and hate teh ghey.
 
2014-03-11 01:35:14 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.  Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end.  Everyone else will eventually let go.


A bold statement of FAITH to be sure.  :-)
 
2014-03-11 01:50:13 PM
TIL what Falls Church church Falls Church is named after.
 
2014-03-11 01:59:56 PM

Theaetetus: Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.

On the contrary, I could see progressive churches shifting to a psychological therapy-based service, with counseling instead of prayer, and ministers with psych degrees rather than or in addition to theology degrees. Like, you go to the doctor if you've got an injury, or you go to the church if you've got depression or anxiety.


Kind of like the butthurt hospital?
 
2014-03-11 02:04:30 PM
This actually has been a huge deal for the Episcopal church over the last few years. Good to see it finally getting completely settled.
 
2014-03-11 02:07:03 PM

Sybarite:


Thankyouverymuch!
Making gifs and photos appear on mobile is not happening for me.
I needed the MCHammer thing.
And I got it.
Right in the boobies, too!

/dis why I loves heah. Fark!
 
2014-03-11 02:07:32 PM
The Falls Church and the other congregations left the Episcopal Church because of theological differences, including the 2003 consecration of an openly gay bishop in New Hampshire. But as of Monday's ruling, all the other congregations had settled their disputes, leaving only the fate of The Falls Church to be settled.

So not true, unless they are talking only about this specific church. The African Anglican Congregations of Derp are still estranged from my church in Indiana.
 
2014-03-11 02:10:10 PM

DamnYankees: What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.


The episcopal church owns all the buildings. When they broke away, they wanted to keep the physical church but the diocese wanted it back.
 
2014-03-11 02:12:10 PM

GardenWeasel: The Falls Church and the other congregations left the Episcopal Church because of theological differences, including the 2003 consecration of an openly gay bishop in New Hampshire. But as of Monday's ruling, all the other congregations had settled their disputes, leaving only the fate of The Falls Church to be settled.

So not true, unless they are talking only about this specific church. The African Anglican Congregations of Derp are still estranged from my church in Indiana.


They are not talking about theology, but legality.  Are the AACoD involved in a legal fight over church property?  Because SCOTUS doesn't give a flying fark about an intra-club pissing contest
 
2014-03-11 02:12:35 PM

DamnYankees: What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.


Which entity is the property deeded to: The Diocese of Northern Virginia or the The Falls Church congregation.

The answer is the Diocese.  The structure was brought over from the Church of England and only modified slightly over the years. There are some mechanisms to transfer titled to an individual congregation, but in this case they were declined.
 
2014-03-11 02:16:17 PM

DamnYankees: What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.


A bunch of scum decided that it wanted to steal, and wanted the courts to declare that it wasn't stealing.
 
2014-03-11 02:17:14 PM

phalamir: GardenWeasel: The Falls Church and the other congregations left the Episcopal Church because of theological differences, including the 2003 consecration of an openly gay bishop in New Hampshire. But as of Monday's ruling, all the other congregations had settled their disputes, leaving only the fate of The Falls Church to be settled.

So not true, unless they are talking only about this specific church. The African Anglican Congregations of Derp are still estranged from my church in Indiana.

They are not talking about theology, but legality.  Are the AACoD involved in a legal fight over church property?  Because SCOTUS doesn't give a flying fark about an intra-club pissing contest


Good point. Nope, they secretly rotate houses to meet in so Obama can't shut them down. Seriously.
 
2014-03-11 02:19:28 PM

DamnYankees: What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.


The church property is owned by the parent organization, Episcopal USA (or something like that) not the church's ministers or congregation.

I can't understand what legal footing the break-away groups have or why their ownership claims weren't immediately thrown out. But I guess they deserve their day in court even if all their suits have been ruled against.
 
2014-03-11 02:20:59 PM

DamnYankees: What was the justiceable issue here? Interpretation of a contract? Deed? Article doesn't explain at all.


This appears to be the opinion the VA appeals court and SCOTUS left intact.  It's 113 pages, it'll take a while to read if you're really interested.
 
2014-03-11 02:21:38 PM
I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...
 
2014-03-11 02:21:41 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Yates said the vast majority of the congregation has remained with him since the split. They typically hold services in a nearby Catholic high school, and he estimated attendance of more than 2,000 at weekly services - nearly the size of the congregation before the 2006 split.

...

The Falls Church Episcopal congregation, which had been displaced until it was allowed back onto the property in the summer of 2012, has about 200 or so attending Sunday services, said its rector, Rev. John Ohmer.

"It continues to be a diverse group," Ohmer said. "Our doors are wide open to everyone."

I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.  Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end.  Everyone else will eventually let go.


...he engraved into a stone tablet in 4500 B.C.
 
2014-03-11 02:27:37 PM

Sybarite:


Done in 1. Awesome job.
 
2014-03-11 02:34:03 PM
 
2014-03-11 02:36:52 PM
No doubt the gays or Obama are at the root of this.
 
2014-03-11 02:43:55 PM

allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...


TEC born and raised. My grandfather immigrated from England in the early 1900's and was my church's priest during the 30's/40's/50's.
 
2014-03-11 02:50:08 PM

monoski: No doubt the gays or Obama are at the root of this.


You left out feminazis wimmen.

The current Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church is Katharine Jefferts Schori, the first female primate in the Anglican Communion.
 
2014-03-11 02:57:43 PM
Lapsed Episcopalian. Now spend Sunday mornings kayaking in good weather and drinking bloody marys in all weathers.  Don't miss it at all.
 
2014-03-11 03:16:17 PM

allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...


I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?
 
2014-03-11 03:22:54 PM

Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?


AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.
 
2014-03-11 03:33:43 PM

RexTalionis: Progressive Christianity, which you can find in the Catholic Church and some progressive evangelical churches is great. Huge emphasis on social justice and helping the poor, the sick and the helpless, not as much on "You're going to hell."


The Catholic church has its own moral failures that are pretty significant even though they don't really align with one end or another of the US political spectrum.  Still no action other than institutional protection/approval of the pedophile rapist priests is the big high-profile one, with the anti-birth-control shiat being almost as well known in the states due to a couple ill-thought-out propaganda pushes, but they're far from the only or even the most antisocial things the Church is doing-- we just ignore most of the worst stuff because it's directed at Africa.

So... no, Catholics aren't even remotely the "good guys" unless your moral philosophy is  wildly, almost  incompatibly divergent from that of most human beings.

The Evangelicals have both a more specific and a more general problem: decentralization.  They're so balkanized and the internal cohesion of even the "unified" branches so loose that there's no real overall message in the first place, meaning that for every church that thinks they should ditch everything but helping the poor, there's a church that thinks they should ditch everything but trying to re-segregate the black people and send them back to Africa.  And both of those things are approved equally by the overall structure, which is... problematic.

And their self-governance isn't really representative enough, when you actually get a bunch of them together it's just a direct vote on everything... which usually means they vote for the lowest common denominator.  The Southern Baptist Conclaves are a good example of the fail that generates.

// I guess I'm obligated to mention the exception: the Presbyterians approach their doctrine, religion and policy in a very logical, tiered centralized way that lets them have a unified message with the crazy/stupid mostly filtered out, punish churches that go off the rails, but still maintain a degree of functional independence.  Anglicans tend to use a similar system that's more centralized but uses an explicit secular focus to keep things from getting out of hand, Eastern Rome style.  So there are factions doing it right, they're just... kind of minor ones, in the larger context of Christianity's overall reputation as a drunken, abusive spouse on its best days.
 
2014-03-11 03:34:03 PM

PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.



Robosexuality
 
2014-03-11 03:49:24 PM

Jim_Callahan: So... no, Catholics aren't even remotely the "good guys" unless your moral philosophy is wildly, almost incompatibly divergent from that of most human beings.


"The Catholic Church is perhaps the only public institution to have acted with transparency and responsibility. No one else has done more, yet the Church is the only one to have been attacked." - Pope Francis

The Catholic Church is utterly moral bankrupt.
 
2014-03-11 03:50:43 PM

PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.


I'm going to guess end of life issues.  Especially as medical costs become more unsustainable.
 
2014-03-11 04:25:05 PM
I recently went through this with a Presbyterian church, the gay hating evangelical group led by the preacher was pissed off when they didn't get the building and land. He had dreams of building a Mega Church on the land, now the share a church with 3 other gay hating congregations.

/When one of the breakoff members refused to turn over the Web URL (he did offer to sell it for $20,000 the church offered $1000 still too much but fair) he got even more  mad at us when we file DMCA complaints against the group.
 
2014-03-11 04:35:05 PM
Lapsed Episcopalian, but still following along at home. Used to have a priest who would say there is nothing as nominal as a nominal Episcopalian. Still feel positive about the good works and inclusion in the progressive wing of the US Episcopal church--working inside the system appears to be paying off in terms of lib/conservative property struggles. And I agree, end of life issues come next.
 
2014-03-11 04:49:07 PM

allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...


Hi, allylloyd.
Been an Episcopalian all my life. You definitely nailed the 3 basic tenets.
It hurts to see such a schism in the Church today. One of the reason I've always loved it is its progressive viewpoint. I was an altar boy at the ordination of the first female Episcopal priest, Jackie Means, at All Saints in Indianapolis back in the seventies. I've always looked at the Red Door, and believed, and gained comfort, that it was always open to Everyone. May that never change.
God's blessings to you.
 
2014-03-11 04:58:46 PM
George Wysoki, a 10 foot Pole, said he wouldn't touch it either.
 
2014-03-11 05:00:11 PM

PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.


OMG, you left out the 1986 prayer book!  So much anger.

Probably the update to the Prayer book in 2028.
 
2014-03-11 05:29:03 PM
Apparently "transgendered clergy" has caused a stir in....................Arkansas
 
2014-03-11 05:38:52 PM

Snort: PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.

OMG, you left out the 1986 prayer book!  So much anger.

Probably the update to the Prayer book in 2028.


LOL. That just seems so silly now.
 
2014-03-11 06:12:32 PM

RexTalionis: Benevolent Misanthrope: I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends. Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end. Everyone else will eventually let go.

Progressive Christianity, which you can find in the Catholic Church and some progressive evangelical churches is great. Huge emphasis on social justice and helping the poor, the sick and the helpless, not as much on "You're going to hell."


Sounds great. Tell God your plan ..
 
2014-03-11 06:35:54 PM

MarcysMan: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

Hi, allylloyd.
Been an Episcopalian all my life. You definitely nailed the 3 basic tenets.
It hurts to see such a schism in the Church today. One of the reason I've always loved it is its progressive viewpoint. I was an altar boy at the ordination of the first female Episcopal priest, Jackie Means, at All Saints in Indianapolis back in the seventies. I've always looked at the Red Door, and believed, and gained comfort, that it was always open to Everyone. May that never change.
God's blessings to you.


MarcysMan,

Thank you. I need all the prayers I can get. I'm going to talk to my priest about starting the discernment process...
 
2014-03-11 06:37:44 PM

Another Government Employee: PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.

I'm going to guess end of life issues.  Especially as medical costs become more unsustainable.


Interesting thought...
I'm going to bring it up on Sunday during our Lenten studies meeting. I'm dying to hear the responses...
 
2014-03-11 06:37:45 PM

Snort: PunGent: Another Government Employee: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

I am.

And these kind of arguments come up every generation or so.  In the 1950's and 1960's it was segregation.  In the 1970's it was the ordination of women and the modernization of the prayer book.  The 1990's brought gay clergy and now we have gay marriage.

I wonder what the next argument will be?

AI, and/or human cloning, would be my guesses.

OMG, you left out the 1986 prayer book!  So much anger.

Probably the update to the Prayer book in 2028.


They'll revert back to the 1928 edition (which DOES have a much better flow)
 
2014-03-11 07:05:20 PM
I do still miss the 1928. It has some beautiful language. Where else does one hear vouchsafe?
 
2014-03-11 07:53:08 PM
There's "Fair trade" products like coffee and chocolate Supposedly grown to minimize impact to the environment. Tended, harvested and processed by workers with reasonable human rights. Profits are not to support human-rights-denying organizations or politicians.

The plain-ordinary-vanilla Episcopalian/Anglican are pretty much "fair trade" religion.Basically, they mind their own business and keep to the "treat your fellow man kindly" basic message,

The Catholic church are like big oil
The Southern Baptists are like Big Tobacco
 
2014-03-11 08:00:54 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:

I've said it for a while now - the churches that try to keep up with society's changes will fail - because we are growing out of our imaginary friends.  Only the churches that serve as havens for willfully ignorant bigots will survive in the end.  Everyone else will eventually let go.

For what it's worth, my very liberal Episcopal church in Baltimore, with a married gay priest, is doing very well.  You're right, though.  Churches that are perceived to be reluctantly changing their tenets to "keep up" with society will lose credibility and dwindle away, but those that have strong progressive convictions can thrive.  The message of the Gospels goes way beyond the social issues that tend to divide churches.

By the way, 200 people each Sunday is very good for an Episcopal church.  Our denomination does not lend itself to megachurches that are driven by the personalities of the ministers.  It will be interesting to see what happens to the break away congregations when their leaders retire.
 
2014-03-11 10:18:49 PM

allylloyd: MarcysMan: allylloyd: I'm curious--how many of you responding here are members of the TEC (or Anglican Communion) past or present?

The TEC is a very simple church. We follow three simple things: 1) Scripture. The Holy Bible. We have assigned daily readings from the OT, NT, Psalms and Gospels. Basically you can read the entire Bible in three years if you follow them. 2) Tradition. Baptism and Holy Eucharist. We don't talk about "salvation". Once you've been baptized, you've got all the salvation you need. The Holy Eucharist. It's a meal that'll have you coming back for more... 3) Reason. It's the reason part that starts all these things...

Hi, allylloyd.
Been an Episcopalian all my life. You definitely nailed the 3 basic tenets.
It hurts to see such a schism in the Church today. One of the reason I've always loved it is its progressive viewpoint. I was an altar boy at the ordination of the first female Episcopal priest, Jackie Means, at All Saints in Indianapolis back in the seventies. I've always looked at the Red Door, and believed, and gained comfort, that it was always open to Everyone. May that never change.
God's blessings to you.

MarcysMan,

Thank you. I need all the prayers I can get. I'm going to talk to my priest about starting the discernment process...

I hope discernment answers your prayers.
You don't have to overthink it, kid.
A long time ago, I came to the realization that God, finally is Love.
Talk to your priest, sure.
I think, and I hope I am not being presumptious, in sharing with you that God loves you as you are.
He knows you.
And loves you, just as he loves all of us.
Which is what I have discerned after much contemplation over all the days of my life.
He loves you.
Peace be with you, my friend.

 
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