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(Ars Technica)   Today's "Not The Onion" story: Users upset that their investment in Ponzicoin didn't pay out   (arstechnica.com) divider line 58
    More: Obvious, Ponzicoin  
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3822 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Mar 2014 at 1:28 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-11 12:46:46 PM
static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-03-11 01:26:46 PM
Andy:  Does ya mean ta tell me dat diamonds is worthless?

Kingfish:  Well, let me put it ya dis way.  I is still the broker but you is now the brokee.
 
2014-03-11 01:32:25 PM
What about Dogecoins, are those good?.
 
2014-03-11 01:35:18 PM
I put a bunch of money in Fonziecoins.  I'm just going to sit on it.  Ayyyy
 
2014-03-11 01:37:30 PM
Hilariously, the update says the breakage was an error and everything was refunded.

I sure as hell wouldn't play with something called Ponzicoin, but it turns out it wasn't a scam, despite the name.
 
2014-03-11 01:43:34 PM
It seems that this was a ponzi scheme that was actually completely up front and open about what was going on.

- You put in your money, and got in the queue to be paid back.
- As money came in people were paid back @ 120% according to their place in the queue.
- Eventually it dies out (as they always do) and the last people to pay in lose their money.
- Then they start all over again.

I'd be curious as to how many rounds it went and how may people per round would get paid/not paid.
 
2014-03-11 01:50:44 PM

LasersHurt: Hilariously, the update says the breakage was an error and everything was refunded.

I sure as hell wouldn't play with something called Ponzicoin, but it turns out it wasn't a scam, despite the name.


Well but it is though, it was supposed to work just like a ponzi scheme should. They were just honest about it.
 
2014-03-11 02:01:07 PM
I thank God that in these corrupt times, there is still an honest ponzi operator.  When I invest in a ponzi scheme, I need to know that it will indeed pay out, right up until the time when it collapses and everyone still involved loses all their money.  Now we know we can all trust Vortuarackne, and should invest money with him worry-free.
 
2014-03-11 02:06:04 PM
Ponzicoin? Are you serious? Anyone who sent coins to a place called ponzicoin must have dropped out of school. How else could they not know who Carlo Ponzi was or what a ponzi scheme is. They need adult education.

To help make that happen, please donate bitcoin, litecoin or dogecoin to these addresses:
bit: 1EeexYfbHKVofCWvaAcoPRPF7NM9PziFfj
lite: LbhHNgk4XgwoDoJagbG5U69rbth7PfLDtq
doge: DDoau22eU5ebZxSbJ4ZKdmMQCvrQdkxqNC
 
2014-03-11 02:11:17 PM
Thank you, Bitcoiners, for providing me with daily LOLs for the past couple months. Really, keep doing what you're doing. I love you.
 
2014-03-11 02:38:52 PM
Sounds similar to the man who spent his life savings on "collectible coins" from the Home Shopping Network, QVC, Franklin Mint, American Mint, Morgan Mint, and the United States Commemorative Gallery, and other similar online and television shopping networks.

He thought it was a sound investment based on the advertising claims.

Later they found that most of the stuff he bought was basically worthless.

http://charltoncoins.blogspot.com/2010/05/80-year-old-man-loses-life -s avings.html
 
2014-03-11 02:40:47 PM

2chris2: I thank God that in these corrupt times, there is still an honest ponzi operator.  When I invest in a ponzi scheme, I need to know that it will indeed pay out, right up until the time when it collapses and everyone still involved loses all their money.  Now we know we can all trust Vortuarackne, and should invest money with him worry-free.


It was a form of gambling. Like horse races.

Did you know that at the end of the horse race everyone still involved "loses all their money"? Strange eh??

AspectRatio: Thank you, Bitcoiners, for providing me with daily LOLs for the past couple months. Really, keep doing what you're doing. I love you.


Right ... because ponzi schemes are unique to bitcoin. And everyone who has ever used bitcoins were automatically involved in this ponzi scheme.

Very intelligent comment. Thanks.
 
2014-03-11 02:53:20 PM
Fools.  I'm putting all my money into Pets.com.
 
2014-03-11 03:18:12 PM

Farking Canuck: 2chris2: I thank God that in these corrupt times, there is still an honest ponzi operator.  When I invest in a ponzi scheme, I need to know that it will indeed pay out, right up until the time when it collapses and everyone still involved loses all their money.  Now we know we can all trust Vortuarackne, and should invest money with him worry-free.

It was a form of gambling. Like horse races.

Did you know that at the end of the horse race everyone still involved "loses all their money"? Strange eh??

AspectRatio: Thank you, Bitcoiners, for providing me with daily LOLs for the past couple months. Really, keep doing what you're doing. I love you.

Right ... because ponzi schemes are unique to bitcoin. And everyone who has ever used bitcoins were automatically involved in this ponzi scheme.

Very intelligent comment. Thanks.


How was this even related to cryptocurrency, anyway? Was that how they accepted "payment" for deposits? So they created a scam that used the anonymity of bitcoin to hide the money trail, and a bunch of fools actually thought it would be a good idea?

Really... this is the same old sad story going back forever, instead of done with cash, it's done with BTC. That's not an indictment of bitcoin, any more than such schemes are an indictment of cash.
 
2014-03-11 03:31:31 PM

LesserEvil: How was this even related to cryptocurrency, anyway? Was that how they accepted "payment" for deposits? So they created a scam that used the anonymity of bitcoin to hide the money trail, and a bunch of fools actually thought it would be a good idea?

Really... this is the same old sad story going back forever, instead of done with cash, it's done with BTC. That's not an indictment of bitcoin, any more than such schemes are an indictment of cash.


Exactly. It appears that if bitcoins are used to purchase something unwise then the problem is the currency and not the product or the purchaser.

I can see it now: "He bought dinner with bitcoins at a restaurant and the chicken was under cooked!!! Man those bitcoin users are stooopid!!!"

I assume the other event that made this poster laugh was when an unsecured currency exchange collapsed due to large volumes of theft from it. Apparently since one of the currencies it traded in was bitcoins that was also bitcoins fault.
 
2014-03-11 03:39:09 PM

ristst: Sounds similar to the man who spent his life savings on "collectible coins" from the Home Shopping Network, QVC, Franklin Mint, American Mint, Morgan Mint, and the United States Commemorative Gallery, and other similar online and television shopping networks.

He thought it was a sound investment based on the advertising claims.

Later they found that most of the stuff he bought was basically worthless.

http://charltoncoins.blogspot.com/2010/05/80-year-old-man-loses-life -s avings.html


So... is that your website, or your crazy uncle's?
 
2014-03-11 03:48:48 PM

Farking Canuck: 2chris2: I thank God that in these corrupt times, there is still an honest ponzi operator.  When I invest in a ponzi scheme, I need to know that it will indeed pay out, right up until the time when it collapses and everyone still involved loses all their money.  Now we know we can all trust Vortuarackne, and should invest money with him worry-free.

It was a form of gambling. Like horse races.

Did you know that at the end of the horse race everyone still involved "loses all their money"? Strange eh??


I don't get why people can't wrap their heads around this. This is a game, not a scam. You have a far better chance of "winning" this game than you would any lottery, bingo, slot machine, horse race, etc. They even admit that the payouts will dry up, and that is part of the risk of the game. I would not play it myself, but I also would not blow money on a lottery ticket which I find even more foolish.
 
2014-03-11 03:56:31 PM

miniflea: ristst: Sounds similar to the man who spent his life savings on "collectible coins" from the Home Shopping Network, QVC, Franklin Mint, American Mint, Morgan Mint, and the United States Commemorative Gallery, and other similar online and television shopping networks.

He thought it was a sound investment based on the advertising claims.

Later they found that most of the stuff he bought was basically worthless.

http://charltoncoins.blogspot.com/2010/05/80-year-old-man-loses-life -s avings.html

So... is that your website, or your crazy uncle's?


OK...try as I may, this one has me baffled.

???
 
2014-03-11 03:58:06 PM

ristst: http://charltoncoins.blogspot.com/2010/05/80-year-old-man-loses-life -s avings.html

So... is that your website, or your crazy uncle's?


OK...try as I may, this one has me baffled.

???


I think he has an issue with the website that hosted that story being a coin seller themselves.
 
2014-03-11 04:07:09 PM
See, those TSA guys from http://www.fark.com/comments/8162736/TSA-is-now-searching-your-luggag e -for-Bitcoin-Shiny-metal-bitcoin  were right, they are metal and shiny!

cdn.arstechnica.net

/its stuff like this article that confuses them
 
2014-03-11 04:11:11 PM

ristst: Sounds similar to the man who spent his life savings on "collectible coins" from the Home Shopping Network, QVC, Franklin Mint, American Mint, Morgan Mint, and the United States Commemorative Gallery, and other similar online and television shopping networks.

He thought it was a sound investment based on the advertising claims.

Later they found that most of the stuff he bought was basically worthless.

http://charltoncoins.blogspot.com/2010/05/80-year-old-man-loses-life -s avings.html


But my NASCAR plate collection is still worth something, right? RIGHT?
 
2014-03-11 04:17:46 PM

Farking Canuck: I think he has an issue with the website that hosted that story being a coin seller themselves.


The blog is saying clearly "be careful when making ANY investment, some 'investments' are a scam".  Then he says how all the other dealers mentioned in the blog REFUSE to buy back anything they sell.  He prints a letter he received from the Franklin Mint that states exactly that.  He then states clearly that unlike those other dealers, his company WILL buy back anything they sell.

From TFA:
"these companies are more than willing to sell you these 'valuable' items, but unwilling to buy them back, and go so far as to refuse to offer any valuation of the items. RUN RUN RUN away from any company that cannot stand behind the products that they sell.  The lesson here is to be an informed buyer. Don't buy anything from any company that is unwilling to buy the items back."

/Had to go back and RT(entire)FA...somehow didn't even notice it was a coin dealer!
/just searched for "man loses life savings buying from Franklin Mint" and that was the first hit
 
2014-03-11 04:29:36 PM
I just put on my money from online drug sales into Kriegerrands.
 
2014-03-11 04:30:04 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: See, those TSA guys from http://www.fark.com/comments/8162736/TSA-is-now-searching-your-luggag e -for-Bitcoin-Shiny-metal-bitcoin  were right, they are metal and shiny!

[cdn.arstechnica.net image 640x427]

/its stuff like this article that confuses them


I want suit buttons made of those.

also:

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

But seriously.  Bitcoin itself or other alt-coin crypto currencies have an amazing future ahead of them.  Different coins can be used for different activities and even the block-chain ledger system can allow for accounting of public assets without fraud.  It also dis-intermediates the banks.  You no longer need a massive firm for corporate arbitrage.  Just get the assets on the block chain and away you go.  Saving billions of dollars and putting scam artists like JP Morgan out of business in those sectors.  The trust is in a transparent system where all the valuations can be placed and viewed.

What happened with Gox wasn't a failure of bitcoin any more than it is the dollar's fault that the FOREX crashes or the NASDAQ or anything like that.   Way to mis-assign failure.  lack of knowledge is key in shiat post articles like this.
 
2014-03-11 04:39:56 PM
Also...it was called Ponzicoin.  The site owner & 'service provider' literally admitted to engaging in a ponzi scheme and basically told customers (idiots) that unless they were first in line then they were getting farked.  Also was running a multi-tiered scheme by doing it in rounds like playing poker or in a tournament setting.  I'm pretty sure this person plays EVE Online.  They probably also run somer blink or Eve Online Hold'em.

Probably also a goon.  I mean if you're told that its a scam...that 'might' pay out for you if you feel like helping to engage in the fraud then you pretty much get what you deserve for playing.

/luv you goons
//this is a real life ALOD just saying.
 
2014-03-11 04:53:53 PM
Now I am going to level with you all I hve an investment tip for you for the currency of the future! Chuck E Cheese tokens, mark my words get in early while the getting is good.
 
2014-03-11 04:54:51 PM

TDBoedy: I want suit buttons made of those.


http://www.ebay.com/bhp/physical-bitcoin has several kinds, but I didn't see TFA's exact token represented
 
2014-03-11 04:59:22 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: TDBoedy: I want suit buttons made of those.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/physical-bitcoin has several kinds, but I didn't see TFA's exact token represented


Found it.   http://antanacoins.com/

/you did want a batch of 300 of them, right?
 
2014-03-11 05:01:45 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Vlad_the_Inaner: TDBoedy: I want suit buttons made of those.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/physical-bitcoin has several kinds, but I didn't see TFA's exact token represented

Found it.   http://antanacoins.com/

/you did want a batch of 300 of them, right?


//Difficulty: they only accept payment in Bitcoins
 
2014-03-11 05:41:24 PM

ristst: Farking Canuck: I think he has an issue with the website that hosted that story being a coin seller themselves.

The blog is saying clearly "be careful when making ANY investment, some 'investments' are a scam".  Then he says how all the other dealers mentioned in the blog REFUSE to buy back anything they sell.  He prints a letter he received from the Franklin Mint that states exactly that.  He then states clearly that unlike those other dealers, his company WILL buy back anything they sell.

From TFA:
"these companies are more than willing to sell you these 'valuable' items, but unwilling to buy them back, and go so far as to refuse to offer any valuation of the items. RUN RUN RUN away from any company that cannot stand behind the products that they sell.  The lesson here is to be an informed buyer. Don't buy anything from any company that is unwilling to buy the items back."

/Had to go back and RT(entire)FA...somehow didn't even notice it was a coin dealer!
/just searched for "man loses life savings buying from Franklin Mint" and that was the first hit


Perhaps I was a bit too quick on the snark, but I was just amused that anyone could write such a shocking expose of obvious fraudsters with a straight face.
 
2014-03-11 06:27:40 PM
TDBoedy:
But seriously.  Bitcoin itself or other alt-coin crypto currencies have an amazing future ahead of them.  Different coins can be used for different activities and even the block-chain ledger system can allow for accounting of public assets without fraud.  It also dis-intermediates the banks.  You no longer need a massive firm for corporate arbitrage.  Just get the assets on the block chain and away you go.  Saving billions of dollars and putting scam artists like JP Morgan out of business in those sectors.  The trust is in a transparent system where all the valuations can be placed and viewed.

What happened with Gox wasn't a failure of bitcoin any more than it is the dollar's fault that the FOREX crashes or the NASDAQ or anything like that.   Way to mis-assign failure.  lack of knowledge is key in shiat post articles like this.


What happened with MtGox is totally a failure of Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is an regulated currency.  The bitcoin community, where everyone loses their money constantly to scammers, hackers, and general stupidity, is what happens when you have an unregulated currency.
 
2014-03-11 06:58:19 PM

2chris2: What happened with MtGox is totally a failure of Bitcoin.


This is absurd, and probably just means you don't know very much at all about what happened to MtGox at all.
 
2014-03-11 07:47:21 PM

LasersHurt: 2chris2: What happened with MtGox is totally a failure of Bitcoin.

This is absurd, and probably just means you don't know very much at all about what happened to MtGox at all.


This.  As stupid as bitcoin fanatics are, I'm continually impressed by the ability of the Fark anti-bitcoin-brigade to surpass them at every turn.
 
2014-03-11 07:55:57 PM

jayhawk88: LasersHurt: Hilariously, the update says the breakage was an error and everything was refunded.

I sure as hell wouldn't play with something called Ponzicoin, but it turns out it wasn't a scam, despite the name.

Well but it is though, it was supposed to work just like a ponzi scheme should. They were just honest about it.


It would only be a 'scam' if people weren't aprised exactly what was happening.... A typical ponzi scam, most people assume their money is being invested and harvesting returns.... hence those people are scammed..... But in THIS case, they are quite upfront its a ponzi methodology.   I'm not sure if its legal... i remember those pyramid schemes sent through the mail were eventually made illegal, but with bitcoins, you're no longer dealing with money.....
 
2014-03-11 07:59:40 PM

China White Tea: As stupid as bitcoin fanatics


Out of curiosity, what exactly is a bitcoin fanatic?
 
2014-03-11 08:07:56 PM

Farking Canuck: China White Tea: As stupid as bitcoin fanatics

Out of curiosity, what exactly is a bitcoin fanatic?


As a rule, anyone who thinks it's not a joke.
 
2014-03-11 08:08:42 PM
I have watched my little trove of Doges die a horrible death lately.  Much Sad.
 
2014-03-11 08:13:27 PM

Olympic Trolling Judge: Farking Canuck: China White Tea: As stupid as bitcoin fanatics

Out of curiosity, what exactly is a bitcoin fanatic?

As a rule, anyone who thinks it's not a joke.


I think of bitcoins as a kinda-sorta digital equivalent to gold coins.  Does that make me a fanatic?

/doesn't own any bitcoins or gold coins
 
2014-03-11 08:14:06 PM

Olympic Trolling Judge: As a rule, anyone who thinks it's not a joke.


AKA ... people who are not ignorant about cryptocurrencies.

Go away troll ... I was asking China White Tea.
 
2014-03-11 08:16:59 PM

Farking Canuck: Olympic Trolling Judge: As a rule, anyone who thinks it's not a joke.

AKA ... people who are not ignorant about cryptocurrencies.

Go away troll ... I was asking China White Tea.


Found the bitcoin fanatic.
 
2014-03-11 08:20:38 PM

Olympic Trolling Judge: Found the bitcoin fanatic.


It is true that, unlike you, I am not ignorant on the subject.

Glad we clarified that definition.
 
2014-03-11 08:35:28 PM

anfrind: Olympic Trolling Judge: Farking Canuck: China White Tea: As stupid as bitcoin fanatics

Out of curiosity, what exactly is a bitcoin fanatic?

As a rule, anyone who thinks it's not a joke.

I think of bitcoins as a kinda-sorta digital equivalent to gold coins.  Does that make me a fanatic?

/doesn't own any bitcoins or gold coins


The nutbar libertardians who envision an all-crypto-currency future free of ebul gubmint fiat currency are the fanatics (they're also a minority from what I've seen).

You "can" think of them as a sort of digital equivalent to gold coins.  I mean, if you're into highly speculative investments, fine, whatever.  They don't have to be treated that way, however - they can simply be used as a mechanism for exchange without the need for a central authority (e.g., paypal), and this was largely the original point.  

You'll pretty frequently see someone say, "Hey, your business should accept bitcoin!"  and then some imbecile starts wharrgarrbling about "real money" because they don't understand that bitcoin has functions outside of the speculative investment realm.  A business can "accept bitcoin" as easily as it accepts a credit card or PayPal, and they're only ever going to be directly dealing with "real money" - the BTC-BTC transaction is strictly between the user, and some third party payment processor - the BTC equivalent of a credit card company.  They charge a small fee (generally less than what CC companies charge).  The business gets paid in real money - only the payment processor is ever assuming the risk of dealing with the highly volatile
 
2014-03-11 08:36:12 PM
Whoops, fat fingered...

China White Tea: The business gets paid in real money - only the payment processor is ever assuming the risk of dealing with the highly volatile...

...speculative investment aspect of BTC.
 
2014-03-11 08:55:47 PM
In other news, social security remains the world's longest-running ponzi scheme.
 
2014-03-11 10:10:48 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-03-11 10:13:49 PM

untaken_name: In other news, social security remains the world's longest-running ponzi scheme.


Funny thing, that. One of the salient characteristics of Ponzi schemes, and the one that actually makes them harmful, is the fact that they can't be long-running...
 
2014-03-11 10:45:23 PM

Mithiwithi: untaken_name: In other news, social security remains the world's longest-running ponzi scheme.

Funny thing, that. One of the salient characteristics of Ponzi schemes, and the one that actually makes them harmful, is the fact that they can't be long-running...




Isn't that relative to the size of the game?

Every scam works for a period of time. Some longer than others.
That doesn't mean someone won't get screwed over in the end.
 
2014-03-11 11:36:47 PM

China White Tea: You'll pretty frequently see someone say, "Hey, your business should accept bitcoin!"


Haven't seen anyone like that in this thread have we?

It is still an experiment ... if I were to compare it to software development I would say it is past alpha testing and into public beta.

It needs an exchange backed by a reliable company or government before it can stabilize. Until then it will be too volatile for serious use. It will happen for bitcoin or one of its successors sooner or later ... there's a ton of money in running an exchange.

/unless the governments go for extreme banning ... but I don't see that happening.
 
2014-03-11 11:51:04 PM

Farking Canuck: China White Tea: You'll pretty frequently see someone say, "Hey, your business should accept bitcoin!"

Haven't seen anyone like that in this thread have we?

It is still an experiment ... if I were to compare it to software development I would say it is past alpha testing and into public beta.

It needs an exchange backed by a reliable company or government before it can stabilize. Until then it will be too volatile for serious use. It will happen for bitcoin or one of its successors sooner or later ... there's a ton of money in running an exchange.

/unless the governments go for extreme banning ... but I don't see that happening.


That specific example?  No.  The general inability to "blackbox" the subject, though?  Most definitely (see: the fact that the thread even really became about bitcoin at all).
 
2014-03-12 12:35:57 AM

Farking Canuck: It needs an exchange backed by a reliable company or government before it can stabilize. Until then it will be too volatile for serious use. It will happen for bitcoin or one of its successors sooner or later ... there's a ton of money in running an exchange.

/unless the governments go for extreme banning ... but I don't see that happening.


Agreed on that last part.  Aside from the difficulty of enforcing such a ban, the general concept of cryptocurrency has way too much potential to be thrown out entirely by the governments of the world.  That said, I stand by my assertion with respect to bitcoin in specific.  It's not nearly ready for prime time, and between the speculators and the ideologues it's unlikely that the community will make such changes to the protocol as might be required for it to mature into a useful financial instrument.  As a proof of concept, it was great, but mark my words: it will be eclipsed at some point.  By what, I don't know.  But there are enough people throwing "altcoins" at the wall that we should see something stick in a few years--maybe five, maybe ten, twenty is probably pushing it.
 
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