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(Mercury News)   B*rry B*nds back with the Giants as spring doping instructor   (mercurynews.com) divider line 98
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308 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Mar 2014 at 9:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-11 10:04:43 AM  
The Cardinals accepted McGwire back with open arms, so why not? The Cardinal Way can't be wrong, can it?
 
2014-03-11 10:24:53 AM  
Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.
 
2014-03-11 10:27:38 AM  
I'm ok with this
 
2014-03-11 10:28:40 AM  
It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.
 
2014-03-11 10:36:38 AM  

Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.


I have been assured by various assholes that his sins are unpardonable.
 
2014-03-11 10:37:40 AM  

Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.


Not supporting any of those guys, but taking PEDs means you're trying to make you (and your team) better. In betting, there's a 50-50 chance that you'll try to make your team worse. I know that's there's no proof that he ever bet against his own team, but I'm not one to take Pete Rose at his word.
 
2014-03-11 10:43:12 AM  

ChrisDe: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

Not supporting any of those guys, but taking PEDs means you're trying to make you (and your team) better. In betting, there's a 50-50 chance that you'll try to make your team worse. I know that's there's no proof that he ever bet against his own team, but I'm not one to take Pete Rose at his word.


^ This is what I'm talking about.
 
2014-03-11 10:47:18 AM  
i216.photobucket.com

/sidenote: this was the first addition to my photobucket; knew I kept it for a reason
 
2014-03-11 10:48:56 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.


No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.
 
2014-03-11 11:00:36 AM  

Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.



Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.
 
2014-03-11 11:09:15 AM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


No but I hear he can really loosen up your tight neck muscles.
 
2014-03-11 11:15:20 AM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


*cough* Adderall *cough*
 
2014-03-11 11:17:48 AM  
Barry Bonds and steroids = Bad.
Hank Aaron and amphetamines = Okay.
 
2014-03-11 11:24:22 AM  

machoprogrammer: Barry Bonds and steroids = Bad.
Hank Aaron and amphetamines = Okay.


Barry Bonds et al haters after you bring that up =  replygif.net
 
2014-03-11 11:41:14 AM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


No, but when you can wait a fraction of a second more before twitching those hitting muscles, it makes a huge difference when there is a 90mph pitch heading your way. It's the difference between swinging at a fastball or taking a slider.
 
2014-03-11 11:44:58 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: ChrisDe: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

Not supporting any of those guys, but taking PEDs means you're trying to make you (and your team) better. In betting, there's a 50-50 chance that you'll try to make your team worse. I know that's there's no proof that he ever bet against his own team, but I'm not one to take Pete Rose at his word.

^ This is what I'm talking about.


He's an asshole for saying that? You're dramatic.
 
2014-03-11 11:46:13 AM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-03-11 11:53:06 AM  
newfound passion for cycling

yeah way to pick an activity that is beyond reproach when it comes to doping
 
2014-03-11 12:03:31 PM  

ChrisDe: No, but when you can wait a fraction of a second more before twitching those hitting muscles, it makes a huge difference when there is a 90mph pitch heading your way. It's the difference between swinging at a fastball or taking a slider.


Hey you know what might allow you to wait an extra fraction of a second? Being the greatest baseball player of all time
 
2014-03-11 12:11:03 PM  

ElwoodCuse: ChrisDe: No, but when you can wait a fraction of a second more before twitching those hitting muscles, it makes a huge difference when there is a 90mph pitch heading your way. It's the difference between swinging at a fastball or taking a slider.

Hey you know what might allow you to wait an extra fraction of a second? Being the greatest baseball player of all time


I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about Barry Bonds.
 
2014-03-11 12:19:49 PM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


But it speeds up your swing and aids recovery from the multitude of niggling injuries an athlete suffers from.

It won't turn an average hitter into a Barry Bonds, but Barry was not average to start with.
 
2014-03-11 12:48:33 PM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


No, but contact does not equal hits.
If increased power turns 20 fly balls into HR, that's an additional .040 batting avg. in a 500 AB season.  And that doesn't include grounders hitting the gaps 1 step faster.

Compare .270 avg/30 HR to .310 avg/50 HR -- one is $5M/yr, the other is $15M/yr
 
2014-03-11 01:03:24 PM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


Then Bonds Spent a LOT of money for nothing. OR spend some money to hit like he never hit up to that point. Incredible coincidence, is it not?
 
2014-03-11 01:05:33 PM  
Try not to inject any roids on the through the parkimg lot Barry.
 
2014-03-11 01:06:41 PM  
Epic post fail. Add 'way' and change an m to an n.
 
2014-03-11 01:07:36 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.


That's the thing. He was a great hitter without the juice. He only juiced to hit them farther. What a waste.
 
2014-03-11 01:17:30 PM  

Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.


Gambling is much more damaging to a sport than guys cheating to get an edge.  MLB, or any high profile sport, cannot have the cloud of what happening being on the field not being on the up and up hanging over them.  Yes, cheating hurts integrity and all that, but if I think a game is fixed, I'm out and so would be millions of others.  May as well watch wrastlin'.  This is one of the reasons why boxing is such a minor sport now when it used to be huge.  Have you ever met a person that stopped watching baseball because of PEDs?  I sure as shiat haven't.

All that being said, I think Pete should be in the hall since it's a freaking museum dedicate to the sport and his accomplishments merit entry.  However, he should absolutely not be allowed anywhere near any organization.  This is coming from someone who grew up in Cincinnati.
 
2014-03-11 01:22:57 PM  

MFAWG: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

That's the thing. He was a great hitter without the juice. He only juiced to hit them farther. What a waste.


If you believe Canseco's numbers Bonds was in the minority when he wasn't juicing. Bonds couldn't beat them so he joined them.  Right or wrong he was the best player of his era and is a hall of famer.

/yay baseball
 
2014-03-11 01:23:20 PM  

SilentStrider: Banned on the Run: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

No, but if you're Barry and you juice, you hit better.


Juice doesn't improve the eye or your sense of timing.


Human Growth Hormone improves your aside and the increased bat speed from your increased strength gives you extra to watch the pitch as it comes in.
 
2014-03-11 01:43:58 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.


I don't think anyone, on Fark at least, thinks Bonds would have sucked without roids. But they did almost certainly help him hit a fair number of extra home runs. I don't get why some people have such a hard time admitting that. As far as him being a hitting coach, if Barry Bonds wants to tell the Giants' players about hitting, they should damn well listen. He's the best living hitter, and one of the top 3 all time.

Marcus Aurelius: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

I have been assured by various assholes that his sins are unpardonable.


I agree with those assholes. Gambling in sports is more destructive than just about any form of cheating. When people cheat with drugs or spitballs or whatever, the game on the field is still a contest where everyone's trying to win. Gambling by participants raises the possibility that some participants have incentives not to win. It renders the exercise pointless. We can't forget that the Black Sox scandal nearly sank MLB. Given that, it's understandable that they have zero tolerance. The other thing is that the steroid (and amphetamine) cheaters were in somewhat of a gray area with regard to the rules, if what they were doing wasn't outright legal at the time they did it. Pete Rose appeared in 3562 games, and every single damn time he walked by a sign telling him that the one totally inviolable rule was that he wasn't allowed to gamble on baseball. If he was too stupid for that to sink in, then fark him.
 
2014-03-11 01:50:00 PM  
They should just add a wing to the Hall of Fame and call it Asterisk Annex
 
2014-03-11 01:54:46 PM  

jrodr018: Then Bonds Spent a LOT of money for nothing. OR spend some money to hit like he never hit up to that point. Incredible coincidence, is it not?


Pro athletes never do anything aren't proven to make you better at sports!

republicjewelry.com

Actual Farking: Human Growth Hormone improves your aside and the increased bat speed from your increased strength gives you extra to watch the pitch as it comes in.


[citation needed]
 
2014-03-11 02:06:52 PM  
imho, hoty material; bravo subby
 
2014-03-11 02:28:14 PM  

ElwoodCuse: jrodr018: Then Bonds Spent a LOT of money for nothing. OR spend some money to hit like he never hit up to that point. Incredible coincidence, is it not?

Pro athletes never do anything aren't proven to make you better at sports!

[republicjewelry.com image 400x363]


Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?
 
2014-03-11 03:04:56 PM  
A newspaper piece written by Bond's biographer, published in 2006 and saved by me:

Barry, It's Time To Tell The Truth
By Jeff Pearlman
I've had it.
I've finally had it.
For the past four months, my life has been all Barry Bonds, all the time. That's what happens when you publish a biography, as I did, about one of America's most fascinating figures. You talk and talk and talk and talk and talk some more, finding every two-watt radio station and middle-of-nowhere book shop and six-hits-per-week baseball blog to pitch your wares. You answer questions upon questions, hoping ... praying someone will be intrigued enough to fork over $25.95 ($33.50 in Canada!) for your words.
No more.
In promoting "Love Me, Hate Me: Barry Bonds and the Making of an Antihero," I've done my best to paint the portrait of a conflicted, misunderstood character; of a man who isn't always what he seems and who -- beneath the layers of hostility -- possesses a decent dose of humility. Was I lying in such efforts? Not at all. I honestly believed that, despite the hundreds of former teammates and friends who relayed stories of Bonds' monstrous disposition, there was some good.
Again, no more.
Barry Bonds is an evil man. A truly evil man. As a husband, he has cheated on both his wives. As a father, he has been absent and indifferent. As a role model, he has spit at autograph seekers and directed kids to "F**k off." As a Giant, he has held a franchise hostage and refused to help teammates in need. As a blatant abuser of steroids and human growth hormone, he has deprived the game of integrity and turned its record books into mush. For all of those transgressions (and the 1,241,971 others I'm leaving out), Bonds deserves to reincarnate as Buddy Biancalana. In drag.
Amazingly, things have become significantly worse. Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, the two San Francisco Chronicle reporters responsible for "Game of Shadows," are doomed to go to jail if they refuse to spill the beans on the source of Bonds' leaked grand jury testimony. In other words, they will be locked up for presenting the world with the truth about baseball's biggest fraud; about a man willing to pass Willie Mays and Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron by any illegal means necessary. Perhaps the two scribes will share a cell with Greg Anderson, Bonds' personal trainer, who -- as a reward for being the slugger's longtime friend -- has also served time for refusing to speak, and is facing more.
I am not writing this column to sell books. I'm writing it to tell Barry Bonds -- to beg Barry Bonds -- to finally do something selfless and righteous:
Come clean.
Heck, your reputation is already dead; your Hall of Fame candidacy as listless as a Hall & Oates chat room. Why not at least preserve some dignity by stepping up and doing your best to keep three men -- one who has dedicated his life to you, two others who have dedicated their lives to bringing you down -- out of prison? Hold a press conference tomorrow. No, today. Tell the world that, yes, you cheated and yes, you set records that rightfully belong to others. "I have been a horrible ambassador for baseball," you'll say, "but that's about to change. I'm planning to dedicate the rest of my life to keeping kids off of drugs. Beginning in 1999, I used performance enhancers to sustain my career. During that time, my forehead grew, my testicles shrunk and I was angrier than a ferret on spin cycle. Don't do it -- never, ever, ever. It's wrong, and I was a fool.
"Furthermore, I would like to urge the government to release Greg and leave Lance and Mark alone. I was the one who cheated and lied, and I'm the one who deserves to be punished. A free press is vital to democracy. Don't blame the messengers -- blame me." (Cue: tears)
Will this get the two scribes out of doing time? Maybe, maybe not -- it depends on the thoughts and interpretations of a grand jury. But it sure wouldn't hurt.
Having interviewed 524 subjects on Bonds, I am convinced beyond a doubt that this press conference will take place ... as soon as Smurfs rule the world and George Allen is named NAACP Man of the Year. Until then, I beg you, the American sports fan, to fight against the grave mistreatment of two Pulitzer-worthy reporters who committed the awful crime of doing their jobs.
Confession: When "Game of Shadows" first hit the bookstores, I was, uh, not happy. It was released three weeks before "Love Me, Hate Me," and soared to the top of the New York Times' Best Sellers list. Fainaru-Wada and Williams were my rivals, and they presented me an old-school thumping.
When push comes to shove, however, we are brothers of journalism and survivors of the warped world of Barry Bonds. Mark, Lance and I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours researching, clip-digging, transcribing, hearing the stories, shaking our heads, wondering, "Is he really that bad? Can anyone really be that bad?"
Answer: Yes.
Bonds is a terrible person, but one with a golden opportunity.
Step up, Barry. Be a man. Take responsibility. Set things straight.
No, this truth might not set you free.
But it will surely liberate three others.

Jeff Pearlman is a former Sports Illustrated baseball writer and the author of "Love Me, Hate Me: Barry Bonds & the Making of an Antihero."
 
2014-03-11 03:06:51 PM  

jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?


BB Hits and HR by season:
1986 92 16
1987 144 25
1988 152 24
1989 144 19
1990 156 33
1991 149 25
1992 147 34
1993 181 46
1994 122 37
1995 149 33
1996 159 42
1997 155 40
1998 167 37
1999 93 34
2000 147 49
2001 156 73
2002 149 46
2003 133 45
2004 135 45
2005 12 5
2006 99 26
2007 94 28

2001 was his only real outlier season as far as HR go.  He was extremely consistent prior to that.  The biggest statistical jump was in '93 when he moved from the Pirates to the Giants.
 
2014-03-11 03:09:17 PM  

jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?


The jump in home run numbers is absolutely not proof that steroids make you better at baseball. That's a lazy narrative perpetrated by sportswriters to discredit the accomplishments of people they don't like (Bonds, A-Rod, etc), and it ignores the many factors with a more plausible effect, such as the new ballparks, crappy pitching, smaller strike zones, etc.
 
2014-03-11 03:23:58 PM  

neon_god: Marcus Aurelius: Take all the juice you like, and you still can't hit like Barry.

You can't explain that.

I don't think anyone, on Fark at least, thinks Bonds would have sucked without roids. But they did almost certainly help him hit a fair number of extra home runs. I don't get why some people have such a hard time admitting that. As far as him being a hitting coach, if Barry Bonds wants to tell the Giants' players about hitting, they should damn well listen. He's the best living hitter, and one of the top 3 all time.

Marcus Aurelius: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

I have been assured by various assholes that his sins are unpardonable.

I agree with those assholes. Gambling in sports is more destructive than just about any form of cheating. When people cheat with drugs or spitballs or whatever, the game on the field is still a contest where everyone's trying to win. Gambling by participants raises the possibility that some participants have incentives not to win. It renders the exercise pointless. We can't forget that the Black Sox scandal nearly sank MLB. Given that, it's understandable that they have zero tolerance. The other thing is that the steroid (and amphetamine) cheaters were in somewhat of a gray area with regard to the rules, if what they were doing wasn't outright legal at the time they did it. Pete Rose appeared in 3562 games, and every single damn time he walked by a sign telling him that the one totally inviolable rule was that he wasn't allowed to gamble on baseball. If he was too stupid for that to sink in, then fark him.


Your thoughts on the matter were made with deliberation and consideration therefor you're an asshole. You're just just not knee-jerky enough.
 
2014-03-11 03:24:04 PM  
http://oldtimefamilybaseball.com/post/73935637744/25-greatest-barry-b o nds-facts

9. Intentional walk leaders, 2001-2004:
1.Barry Bonds:
284
2.St. Louis Cardinals:260
3.Montreal Expos:252
4.Philadelphia Phillies:237
5.Arizona Diamondbacks:232
 
2014-03-11 03:27:07 PM  
Even better:

23.2001-2004 fWAR (FanGraphs' version of WAR):
Barry Bonds:
 46.6 fWAR
New York Mets: 46.6 fWAR
Milwaukee Brewers: 45.3 fWAR
Kansas City Royals: 31.0 fWAR
Detroit Tigers: 30.9 fWAR
Montreal Expos: 30.7 fWAR

2001-2004 was a fun time for Mr. Bonds, and this list makes that very clear. The level to which he was dominating baseball will probably never be seen again. Barry Bonds drew 120 intentional walks in 2004 alone. Meanwhile, I was being forced to memorize the Declaration of Independence in 4th grade.
 
2014-03-11 03:43:06 PM  

RonwellQuincyDobbs: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

Gambling is much more damaging to a sport than guys cheating to get an edge.  MLB, or any high profile sport, cannot have the cloud of what happening being on the field not being on the up and up hanging over them.  Yes, cheating hurts integrity and all that, but if I think a game is fixed, I'm out and so would be millions of others.  May as well watch wrastlin'.  This is one of the reasons why boxing is such a minor sport now when it used to be huge.  Have you ever met a person that stopped watching baseball because of PEDs?  I sure as shiat haven't.

All that being said, I think Pete should be in the hall since it's a freaking museum dedicate to the sport and his accomplishments merit entry.  However, he should absolutely not be allowed anywhere near any organization.  This is coming from someone who grew up in Cincinnati.


His accomplishments should be recognized in the museum.

Just like I am sure the Black Sox are.

But that doesn't mean he should be inducted to the hall. And I do firmly believe that actions off the field are legitimate considerations in inducting someone into the hall.
 
2014-03-11 03:53:31 PM  

RonwellQuincyDobbs: Actual Farking: It's ridiculous that McGwire and Bonds are both back in baseball while Pete Rose is still an official unperson.

Gambling is much more damaging to a sport than guys cheating to get an edge.


Gambling has farked every major sport. College sports have playoffs now. Huh. I wonder why.

I gotta go put in my entry to the billion dollar pool on the NCAA basketball championship. I'm gonna buy me some hooker if I win.
 
2014-03-11 04:29:11 PM  

ElwoodCuse: jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?

The jump in home run numbers is absolutely not proof that steroids make you better at baseball. That's a lazy narrative perpetrated by sportswriters to discredit the accomplishments of people they don't like (Bonds, A-Rod, etc), and it ignores the many factors with a more plausible effect, such as the new ballparks, crappy pitching, smaller strike zones, etc.


You mean the same ballparks, crappy pitching and strike zones imposed for the last 20-30 years? How do you explain the drop in HR numbers since the steroids ban? The other factors have not changed, the only difference is the ban on steroids. Go ahead, I will wait for the explanation.
 
2014-03-11 04:29:46 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: They should just add a wing to the Hall of Fame and call it Asterisk Annex


Except nearly every HOFer would be there. Ruth used stimulants. As did Aaron. Gaylord Perry used a spitball. Mickey Mantle got testosterone injections. They have been cheating since the game was invented.
 
2014-03-11 04:30:39 PM  

ElwoodCuse: jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?

The jump in home run numbers is absolutely not proof that steroids make you better at baseball. That's a lazy narrative perpetrated by sportswriters to discredit the accomplishments of people they don't like (Bonds, A-Rod, etc), and it ignores the many factors with a more plausible effect, such as the new ballparks, crappy pitching, smaller strike zones, etc.


*facepalm

Do steroids make you stronger? Yes.
Who hits more home runs, stronger 1st baseman or scrawny 2nd baseman? The 1st baseman.
Ergo, steroids make you stronger so you can hit more home runs. Period.

Any argument to the contrary is willful ignorance.
 
2014-03-11 04:32:16 PM  

degenerate-afro: jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?

BB Hits and HR by season:
1986 92 16
1987 144 25
1988 152 24
1989 144 19
1990 156 33
1991 149 25
1992 147 34
1993 181 46
1994 122 37
1995 149 33
1996 159 42
1997 155 40
1998 167 37
1999 93 34
2000 147 49
2001 156 73
2002 149 46
2003 133 45
2004 135 45
2005 12 5
2006 99 26
2007 94 28

2001 was his only real outlier season as far as HR go.  He was extremely consistent prior to that.  The biggest statistical jump was in '93 when he moved from the Pirates to the Giants.


49 HR after a steady slide in numbers? Last time he hit close to that was 1996. So as he got older, his numbers improved? What a freak of nature. Is he the only player that hit more HR during the zenith of his career than while in his prime? Interesting. Dude, you posted the numbers, be critical and look at them with an impartial eye.
 
2014-03-11 04:36:53 PM  

degenerate-afro: jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?

BB Hits and HR by season:
1986 92 16
1987 144 25
1988 152 24
1989 144 19
1990 156 33
1991 149 25
1992 147 34
1993 181 46
1994 122 37
1995 149 33
1996 159 42
1997 155 40
1998 167 37
1999 93 34
2000 147 49
2001 156 73
2002 149 46
2003 133 45
2004 135 45
2005 12 5
2006 99 26
2007 94 28

2001 was his only real outlier season as far as HR go.  He was extremely consistent prior to that.  The biggest statistical jump was in '93 when he moved from the Pirates to the Giants.


Holy crap, just looking at those numbers you can pinpoint exactly the years he juiced. I'll make it easy for you: 2000 49HRs, 2004 45 HRs. Only ONCE before he hit 40+ two years in a row (in his prime, mind you). How can you not see that? Too bad, maybe the best hitter of all time, he did not need that to cement his place in the HOF.
 
2014-03-11 05:39:41 PM  

jrodr018: degenerate-afro: jrodr018: Or they DO work, as Bonds, Sosa, McGwire et al have shown us. You can be willfully blind (and we will all just laugh at you) or just look at huge jump in HR numbers that they had after they "worked out this summer, gained 30 pounds of muscle, and are raring to go" and started jacking up HRs. Remember those days?

BB Hits and HR by season:
1986 92 16
1987 144 25
1988 152 24
1989 144 19
1990 156 33
1991 149 25
1992 147 34
1993 181 46
1994 122 37
1995 149 33
1996 159 42
1997 155 40
1998 167 37
1999 93 34
2000 147 49
2001 156 73
2002 149 46
2003 133 45
2004 135 45
2005 12 5
2006 99 26
2007 94 28

2001 was his only real outlier season as far as HR go.  He was extremely consistent prior to that.  The biggest statistical jump was in '93 when he moved from the Pirates to the Giants.

Holy crap, just looking at those numbers you can pinpoint exactly the years he juiced. I'll make it easy for you: 2000 49HRs, 2004 45 HRs. Only ONCE before he hit 40+ two years in a row (in his prime, mind you). How can you not see that? Too bad, maybe the best hitter of all time, he did not need that to cement his place in the HOF.


The Giants moved to Pac Bell in 2000. The dip in his hr numbers after Pittsburgh was mainly due to playing in Candlestick. There were more factors at play than 'roids.
 
2014-03-11 06:02:19 PM  

jrodr018: 49 HR after a steady slide in numbers? Last time he hit close to that was 1996. So as he got older, his numbers improved? What a freak of nature. Is he the only player that hit more HR during the zenith of his career than while in his prime? Interesting. Dude, you posted the numbers, be critical and look at them with an impartial eye.


I am looking at them with an impartial eye.  You stated he couldn't hit the ball before he juiced.  I'm stating that he could hit the ball.  Pretty darn well in fact.  His numbers before 2000 are all excellent.
 
2014-03-11 06:03:34 PM  

drewogatory: The Giants moved to Pac Bell in 2000. The dip in his hr numbers after Pittsburgh was mainly due to playing in Candlestick. There were more factors at play than 'roids.


I generally don't post in steroids threads, but I'll make a small exception here:

Do the same year by year breakdown, but only look at his road totals. It cancels out the Pitt->Candle Stick->Pac Bell effect.

I'm not gonna spoil the surprise as to what happens, though.
 
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