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(RealClear)   Colorado collects $2 millon in recreational pot taxes. Who could have seen that coming? Oh, about 300 million Americans   (realclear.com) divider line 111
    More: Obvious, Colorado, state Department of Revenue, Americans, Colorado collects, excise taxes, sales taxes  
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4916 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2014 at 9:15 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



111 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-10 08:11:26 PM
Man, it's like they're taxing things that just grow in the ground and stuff. That's like... terrible or something, man. Oh archer is on.
 
2014-03-10 08:26:57 PM
I'm betting they saved more than that by not locking up pot smokers.
 
2014-03-10 08:36:30 PM
Gov. John Hickenlooper already has sent the Legislature a detailed $134 million proposal for spending recreational and medical marijuana money, including new spending on anti-drug messaging to kids and more advertising discouraging driving while high.

State police chiefs have asked for more money, too.


Oh, really?!
 
2014-03-10 09:14:37 PM
That's a lot of cheetos.
 
2014-03-10 09:17:25 PM

violentsalvation: Oh, really?!


Ya really.  Apparently not incarcerating people for cannabis possession is costly.
 
2014-03-10 09:20:28 PM
45 state referendums to legalize pot hit the legislatures in 3...2...
 
2014-03-10 09:23:12 PM
"There probably is a tendency to want to just grab on to this revenue from marijuana and feed my own pet projects, and I don't think it's going to be that simple," said Sen. Kent Lambert, R-Colorado Springs and another committee member.

Yay revenue.
 
2014-03-10 09:24:10 PM

Sgygus: violentsalvation: Oh, really?!

Ya really.  Apparently not incarcerating people for cannabis possession is costly.


That and their  bonus pool slush fund safety and training budget needs some help now that forfeitures aren't in the mix for pot anymore.
 
2014-03-10 09:24:27 PM

fusillade762: I'm betting they saved more than that by not locking up pot smokers.


Ding ding ding.
 
2014-03-10 09:25:44 PM
Sadly, I think it's way less than what they were expecting.

"Last year's pot vote guessed that the taxes would produce $70 million a year, and it's unclear what lawmakers can do with tax money that exceeds that figure.

Colorado's Joint Budget Committee plans a Wednesday briefing with lawyers to lay out their options for spending pot taxes beyond $70 million."


Unless my math is off, I don't think they're going to have to worry about that anytime soon.
 
2014-03-10 09:27:45 PM
Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.
 
2014-03-10 09:28:44 PM

GanjSmokr: Sadly, I think it's way less than what they were expecting.

"Last year's pot vote guessed that the taxes would produce $70 million a year, and it's unclear what lawmakers can do with tax money that exceeds that figure.

Colorado's Joint Budget Committee plans a Wednesday briefing with lawyers to lay out their options for spending pot taxes beyond $70 million."

Unless my math is off, I don't think they're going to have to worry about that anytime soon.


There are still a lot of places that it will be legal to sell recreationally and just isn't yet. Boulder comes to mind, and I'm sure there are others. They won't hit $70 million this year, but the "per month" figure should pick up once more stores are opened.
 
2014-03-10 09:30:28 PM
It's only going to keep going up.  In most areas there isn't any shops that have received approval for recreational yet.  That number could easily double by mid-year.
 
2014-03-10 09:30:40 PM

fusillade762: I'm betting they saved more than that by not locking up pot smokers.


I'm betting they just switched to locking up more Hispanics.
 
2014-03-10 09:31:28 PM

GanjSmokr: Sadly, I think it's way less than what they were expecting.

"Last year's pot vote guessed that the taxes would produce $70 million a year, and it's unclear what lawmakers can do with tax money that exceeds that figure.

Colorado's Joint Budget Committee plans a Wednesday briefing with lawyers to lay out their options for spending pot taxes beyond $70 million."

Unless my math is off, I don't think they're going to have to worry about that anytime soon.


The collection was probably low (when compared to projections) because people are still: A) warming to the idea of decriminalized pot, and B) the banks having to implement special procedures so sellers can deposit funds without worry the Feds will crash the bank(s) for money laundering.
 
2014-03-10 09:31:29 PM

Gyrfalcon: 45  state referendums to legalize pot private prison industries start spending SERIOUS lobby money to prevent any further legalization from state legislatures in 3...2...

FTFY

 
2014-03-10 09:33:22 PM
What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?
 
2014-03-10 09:33:35 PM
Fark the rest of the country, I hope ya'll dumbasses keep it on the illegal. And here's Mel Gibson holding two Oscars cause Fark You!
ww4.hdnux.com
 
2014-03-10 09:35:33 PM
localtvwjw.files.wordpress.com

what $14 million in pot looks like based on current police estimates.
 
2014-03-10 09:36:01 PM

JRoo: Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.


Next thing stupid prohibitionists will be telling us is the violent, untaxable drug war is somehow better. We keep the the funds out of the gang's hands by making it legit, like alcohol, farking dumbass.
 
2014-03-10 09:37:53 PM

uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?


zero.  Seriously, look it up.
 
2014-03-10 09:38:05 PM
This is what will make the other states fall in line like dominoes.
 
2014-03-10 09:38:43 PM
Hey, Colorado! $2 million will buy you a whole lot of dope.

I'm only saying....
 
2014-03-10 09:40:11 PM
Just for shiats and grins I pulled up the Amtrak site to see what an Orlando to Denver trip would be like. Four days, three different trains, and nearly $300 one way for a coach seat. fml

/need someone on this side of the Mississippi to go "fark it... make it legal"
//was hoping for North Carolina but they've been going 'pants on head on fire' the last few years
///farkin' teabaggers ruin everything
 
2014-03-10 09:41:06 PM
Now if only brothels were legal nationwide. Our national deficit would be wiped out AND we'd have enough funding for at least one Mars colony by the end of the year.
 
2014-03-10 09:41:51 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

zero.  Seriously, look it up.


That is awesome. Looks like it was projected to be  $750 million a few years ago
 
2014-03-10 09:41:52 PM
I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.
 
2014-03-10 09:43:45 PM

TV's Vinnie: Now if only brothels were legal nationwide. Our national deficit would be wiped out AND we'd have enough funding for at least one Mars colony by the end of the year.


Less colony, more robots, but yeah, agreed.  So much wasted money on stupid crap when we could be doing useful things.
 
2014-03-10 09:43:47 PM

somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.


If it is on federal land, then there is a federal charge, if it crosses state borders, then there are other federal charges. But my guess is the Federal government will drops the legislation once a few more states start changing their laws.
 
2014-03-10 09:43:50 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: JRoo: Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.

Next thing stupid prohibitionists will be telling us is the violent, untaxable drug war is somehow better. We keep the the funds out of the gang's hands by making it legit, like alcohol, farking dumbass.


That's my concern here in Washington. I can only hope our legal sales can open with what seems like few problems in Colorado. We're more prone to higher taxes (currently proposing 75% tax on e-cigs) there's still a lot of NIMBYs and everything has to go before what seems like an endless committee. Can't we just sell, tax, smoke and all get along?
 
2014-03-10 09:45:07 PM
Between the taxes and the money they'll save on trials and jail space, I'll bet you see more states doing this.
 
2014-03-10 09:49:01 PM

AbuHashish: Ow! That was my feelings!: JRoo: Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.

Next thing stupid prohibitionists will be telling us is the violent, untaxable drug war is somehow better. We keep the the funds out of the gang's hands by making it legit, like alcohol, farking dumbass.

That's my concern here in Washington. I can only hope our legal sales can open with what seems like few problems in Colorado. We're more prone to higher taxes (currently proposing 75% tax on e-cigs) there's still a lot of NIMBYs and everything has to go before what seems like an endless committee. Can't we just sell, tax, smoke and all get along?


Nope, it doesn't work that way.
st.depositphotos.com
 
2014-03-10 09:51:04 PM

uber humper: Ow! That was my feelings!: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

zero.  Seriously, look it up.

That is awesome. Looks like it was projected to be  $750 million a few years ago


Budget shortfall =/= budget deficit. With a combo of laws, Colorado basically has a balanced budget amendment type deal.
 
2014-03-10 09:53:51 PM

king_nacho: somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.

If it is on federal land, then there is a federal charge, if it crosses state borders, then there are other federal charges. But my guess is the Federal government will drops the legislation once a few more states start changing their laws.


Well, that was a thoughtful and erudite answer.  Goddamn it, I wanted some sort of M. Night Shamalan mental twist to keep me awake at night.  SCREW YOU!

And thanks.  :)
 
2014-03-10 09:55:59 PM

Frederick: This is what will make the other states fall in line like dominoes.


Yep. And not just the taxes on the sales of marijuana, but also marijuana tourism. More inbound cars on the road more gas being sold, more hotel rooms occupied. More Doritos sold.
 
2014-03-10 09:56:33 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: JRoo: Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.

Next thing stupid prohibitionists will be telling us is the violent, untaxable drug war is somehow better. We keep the the funds out of the gang's hands by making it legit, like alcohol, farking dumbass.


You got low marks in reading comprehension, I assume?
 
2014-03-10 09:56:44 PM
Next comes the Doritos tax!
 
2014-03-10 09:56:44 PM
you dopes.
 
2014-03-10 09:58:55 PM

JRoo: Ow! That was my feelings!: JRoo: Next thing they'll be telling us is licensing and checking ID's helps keep abusable substances out of the hands of minors by creating a trail of accountability.

What about keeping funds out of the hands of underground drug gangs? Stupid potheads.

Next thing stupid prohibitionists will be telling us is the violent, untaxable drug war is somehow better. We keep the the funds out of the gang's hands by making it legit, like alcohol, farking dumbass.

You got low marks in reading comprehension, I assume?


Meh, sarcasm can be tough to judge when it's just text to go by.

//and I'm drunk too, so whatever.
 
2014-03-10 10:01:39 PM

Gyrfalcon: 45 state referendums to legalize pot hit the legislatures in 3...2...


Good, I've been paying New York an insane amount of tax for my craft beer for years now. Spread the burden *grumble*
 
2014-03-10 10:05:40 PM
I should hope they got some money out of it.. because 37 PEOPLE DIED IN COLORADO as a result of pot legalization!
 
2014-03-10 10:06:09 PM

byteme4321: Next comes the Doritos tax!


Yeah right.  Taco Bell already wants $5 for their Nachos Los Locos Bell Grande Dorito Shelled Taco or whatever the hell they call it.  What are they supposed to do, sell food based on its inherent qualities rather than cheap marketing ploys?
 
2014-03-10 10:10:35 PM
Marijuana is a gateway drug to even better marijuana.
Or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4rA_esYo0no ON
 Salvia. No one ever mentions salvia.
 
2014-03-10 10:10:51 PM

Gyrfalcon: 45 state referendums to legalize pot hit the legislatures in 3...2...


this^^

I can remember when there was only one casino in Australia. Those naughty naughty Tasmanians Taswegians.

And boy, didn't that house of cards come tumbling down when the other states saw all that sweet juicy tax revenue, not to mention tourism $$$.
 
2014-03-10 10:14:40 PM

Big Ramifications: Gyrfalcon: 45 state referendums to legalize pot hit the legislatures in 3...2...

this^^

I can remember when there was only one casino in Australia. Those naughty naughty Tasmanians Taswegians.

And boy, didn't that house of cards come tumbling down when the other states saw all that sweet juicy tax revenue, not to mention tourism $$$.


Washington DC just decriminalized anything less than 1 ounce with a $25 fine.

Maryland has broad support for decriminalization.
 
2014-03-10 10:17:06 PM

70Ford: Marijuana is a gateway drug to even better marijuana.
Or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4rA_esYo0no ON
 Salvia. No one ever mentions salvia.


Because Salvia is not Cannabis. Smoke all the Mint you want, nobody cares.
 
2014-03-10 10:20:19 PM
Here's a wiki for Colorado's TABOR law:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxpayer_Bill_of_Rights
 
2014-03-10 10:27:23 PM

uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?


No.
 
2014-03-10 10:31:37 PM
I'm shocked that it is that low.  I know it probably will ramp up, but I would have expected to to be (puts on sunglasses) higher.

//Yeah!
 
2014-03-10 10:34:17 PM
Who gives a shiat about the tax revenue? How about legalizing it because it's the right thing to do? Everything else is just a side effect.

somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.


Depends on whether the feds have their own enforcement capabilities. As far as I know, treason isn't a crime in any particular state but you can bet your ass the feds can enforce that one. And given the budget and reach of the DEA, if the feds really wanted to put the screws down they'd have no problem doing so.

And the power of the purse can be a lot stronger than anything else... "Nice lower-than-we-like drinking age you have there. Be a shame if anything happened to that highway funding you get from us." Sound familiar?
 
2014-03-10 10:35:16 PM

70Ford: Marijuana is a gateway drug to even better marijuana.
Or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4rA_esYo0no ON
 Salvia. No one ever mentions salvia.


Lets go for a drive.
 
2014-03-10 10:37:36 PM
Once the "new" wears off, lets see how much money in taxes they rake in.
Right now, it's a new thing, everyone is flocking there just to say I bought pot in Colorado.
Eventually the hipsters will move on to something else, like the plague of locust they are.
 
2014-03-10 10:38:09 PM
How much money something makes should be the one, or at least most important determining factor for whether or not we do it. --Mother Teresa
 
2014-03-10 10:39:50 PM
It's the best thing, there are these little Chai tablets 10mg, package of ten. 25$ (+5 tax) that you just walk on in for.

They taste nice.
 
2014-03-10 10:49:11 PM

somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.


Basically, Federal law always wins. BUT, the Feds lack the resources to effectively enforce most of the laws they pass. Especially a 'possession' crime like MJ. That is why states legalizing is such a big deal. With the Feds lacking the resources to enforce, if the states/locals won't or can't, it becomes an unenforceable law.

The Feds NEED the states and locals to enforce their laws or they don't mean shiat. There is a reason some Federal LEOs are freaking out and it's not just about MJ being legal, it's a direct and serious threat to Federal law enforcement authority.

//When you can't buy local help with drug war cash and toys, then what?
 
2014-03-10 11:03:07 PM

buzzcut73: That and their bonus pool slush fund safety and training budget needs some help now that forfeitures aren't in the mix for pot anymore.


The forfeiture thing uses federal law.  In theory, local police departments could still do it.
 
2014-03-10 11:04:14 PM
I hope lawyers get involved. They will shiat themselves about secondhand marijuana smoke and marijuana causing autism. So much money in that.
 
2014-03-10 11:08:21 PM

Old Man Winter: I hope lawyers get involved. They will shiat themselves about secondhand marijuana M

arihuana  smoke and marijuanaMarihuana  causing autism. So much money in that.

...aaaaand we're back to 1931. Did anyone else get an accurate reading on the precise characteristics of that temporal shift so we can get back to the future.... again....
 
2014-03-10 11:08:35 PM

GanjSmokr: Sadly, I think it's way less than what they were expecting.

"Last year's pot vote guessed that the taxes would produce $70 million a year, and it's unclear what lawmakers can do with tax money that exceeds that figure.

Colorado's Joint Budget Committee plans a Wednesday briefing with lawyers to lay out their options for spending pot taxes beyond $70 million."

Unless my math is off, I don't think they're going to have to worry about that anytime soon.


Two things from the article to keep in mind:

1. January was the first month for marijuana revenue collection and they allowed a one-time transfer from medical marijuana stocks to the recreational market to get the sales kicked off. This transfer was not taxed, which depressed the January tax revenue.
2. Sales are mostly confined to the Denver area, so once more shops are approved and opened around the state then tax revenue should also increase quite a bit.

So the $3.5 million in total tax revenue from January pot sales is likely to increase in the future. If it doubles... that's going to be over $70 million a year.
 
2014-03-10 11:15:53 PM

uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?


$715 million.
 
2014-03-10 11:21:42 PM
Meanwhile in Michigan, a medical marijuana state, the cops are spewing lies and using scare tactics via the local newspaper editorial page. The next day a local doctor rebutted and tore him a new one. Damage was done though

http://www.themorningsun.com/opinion/20140301/the-dangers-of-decrimi na lizing-marijuana
 
2014-03-10 11:21:49 PM

firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.


Where do you see that?
 
2014-03-10 11:22:52 PM

TV's Vinnie: Now if only brothels were legal nationwide. Our national deficit would be wiped out AND we'd have enough funding for at least one Mars colony by the end of the year.


Legalize ALL consensual crimes.

You dont want to fark a whore? Then dont sleep with your wife.

But seriously, film the sex and it is legal porn, dont film it and it is illegal prostitution?
FARTARDS
 
2014-03-10 11:23:59 PM

DigitalCoffee: Just for shiats and grins I pulled up the Amtrak site to see what an Orlando to Denver trip would be like. Four days, three different trains, and nearly $300 one way for a coach seat. fml

/need someone on this side of the Mississippi to go "fark it... make it legal"
//was hoping for North Carolina but they've been going 'pants on head on fire' the last few years
///farkin' teabaggers ruin everything


NC here... Wish it was so but our governor is too busy trying to cover up other shiat. We can't even legalize medical MJ oil for severely disabled two-year-olds; I'm afraid you may have to look elsewhere.

/"pants on head on fire" is a perfect description
 
2014-03-10 11:24:15 PM

p51d007: Once the "new" wears off, lets see how much money in taxes they rake in.
Right now, it's a new thing, everyone is flocking there just to say I bought pot in Colorado.
Eventually the hipsters will move on to something else, like the plague of locust they are.


Ya know how I know... ah, farkit, you don't know shiat. This market has legs and as it matures, the price will go down, but the sales will go up. It is a monster revenue source for any State or locality that wants it.

//and feel free to stay out of Colorado if it bothers you.
 
2014-03-10 11:25:44 PM

firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.


nope.
 
2014-03-10 11:29:40 PM

jst3p: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

Where do you see that?


http://ballotpedia.org/Colorado_state_budget
 
2014-03-10 11:30:47 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

nope.


my bad, just realized that was the 2011 number.
 
2014-03-10 11:42:15 PM

firefly212: Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

nope.

my bad, just realized that was the 2011 number.


Also, I think this potential argument is off base. There is a difference between 'state debt' and 'running a deficit'. It is illegal for Colorado to run a deficit, spending more than it takes in. But 'state debt', mostly infrastructure projects financed via debt, are where a debt number might come from. The only debt Colorado is allowed to finance is voter approved.
 
2014-03-10 11:43:53 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

nope.

my bad, just realized that was the 2011 number.

Also, I think this potential argument is off base. There is a difference between 'state debt' and 'running a deficit'. It is illegal for Colorado to run a deficit, spending more than it takes in. But 'state debt', mostly infrastructure projects financed via debt, are where a debt number might come from. The only debt Colorado is allowed to finance is voter approved.


This.
 
2014-03-10 11:44:44 PM

Mister Peejay: Taco Bell already wants $5 for their Nachos Los Locos Bell Grande Dorito Shelled Taco or whatever the hell they call it.


Dude, you sound like you're 75 years old and have only experienced TBell via television ads.
 
2014-03-10 11:48:55 PM
That's it? Sheeeeeit.
 
2014-03-10 11:54:30 PM

Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

nope.

my bad, just realized that was the 2011 number.

Also, I think this potential argument is off base. There is a difference between 'state debt' and 'running a deficit'. It is illegal for Colorado to run a deficit, spending more than it takes in. But 'state debt', mostly infrastructure projects financed via debt, are where a debt number might come from. The only debt Colorado is allowed to finance is voter approved.


I didn't really see where is argument was going, tbh.
 
2014-03-10 11:55:06 PM

Sgygus: violentsalvation: Oh, really?!

Ya really.  Apparently not incarcerating people for cannabis possession is costly.


They've got to make up for the budget money they lost from missing out on asset forfeiture and straight-up cop-operated smash-and-grab confiscation.

flondrix: buzzcut73: That and their bonus pool slush fund safety and training budget needs some help now that forfeitures aren't in the mix for pot anymore.

The forfeiture thing uses federal law.  In theory, local police departments could still do it.


They're banned from enforcing federal marihuana laws, I believe. They need to get all their cash from the trailers they seize from the meth operations.
 
2014-03-11 12:02:55 AM

somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.


The Feds have every legal right to bust your ass for having pot in your own living room and to charge the state licensed distributor who sold it to you with drug trafficking (and probably a lot of follow up crimes). Federal law trumps state law, plain and simple.

They have said they won't pursue minor possession or state approved activities off of Federal land. But that is an administrative policy and if the next President decided he really needed the law and order vote, there is nothing stopping him from reversing that policy.
 
2014-03-11 12:04:36 AM

firefly212: Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: Ow! That was my feelings!: firefly212: uber humper: What's Colorado's budget deficit? $500 million or so?

$715 million.

nope.

my bad, just realized that was the 2011 number.

Also, I think this potential argument is off base. There is a difference between 'state debt' and 'running a deficit'. It is illegal for Colorado to run a deficit, spending more than it takes in. But 'state debt', mostly infrastructure projects financed via debt, are where a debt number might come from. The only debt Colorado is allowed to finance is voter approved.

I didn't really see where is argument was going, tbh.


Ah, multiple people have brought it up, so...
 
2014-03-11 12:18:14 AM

dywed88: somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.

The Feds have every legal right to bust your ass for having pot in your own living room and to charge the state licensed distributor who sold it to you with drug trafficking (and probably a lot of follow up crimes). Federal law trumps state law, plain and simple.

They have said they won't pursue minor possession or state approved activities off of Federal land. But that is an administrative policy and if the next President decided he really needed the law and order vote, there is nothing stopping him from reversing that policy.


They certainly do have the legal authority, but they do not have the personnel. The DEA isn't so massive that they could attack the legal pot "problem" at the user end. There is zero chance of them projecting that legal authority to the user base. They can and will perform the small busts of morons that need to challenge their authority directly. They may go after the larger pot businesses, but at some point the DEA and other alphabet agencies won't be able to chase down all the bits and pieces as there will simply be too many. They won't have the needed bandwidth with USAs and they will have a very difficult time with juries.

In the end, the IRS will be the only way to stop the pot industry.
 
2014-03-11 12:20:17 AM

dywed88: somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.

The Feds have every legal right to bust your ass for having pot in your own living room and to charge the state licensed distributor who sold it to you with drug trafficking (and probably a lot of follow up crimes). Federal law trumps state law, plain and simple.

They have said they won't pursue minor possession or state approved activities off of Federal land. But that is an administrative policy and if the next President decided he really needed the law and order vote, there is nothing stopping him from reversing that policy.


Oh c'mon! Without the states shouldering most of the burden, the DEA would need a massive, billions of dollars budget increase to make that happen. The defenders of the national checkbook, the TEA Party, will obviously refuse to waste Federal dollars on such a ridiculous policy. Crazy talk.
 
2014-03-11 12:21:01 AM
The majority of states just need to legalize it already.
The War on Drugs has been an epic failure that has done nothing but militarize our police and waste billions of dollars.
 
2014-03-11 12:24:30 AM

zepher: The majority of states just need to legalize it already.
The War on Drugs has been an epic failure that has done nothing but militarize our police and waste billions of dollars.


I'm interested to see how and, well, if the cops can be demilitarized. I'm going to guess they will have some other thing to sweat, like meth, that will require better body armor, identity concealment and more assault rifles while they pack into their APCs, maybe LA and NY will get a couple Abrams once we've pulled out of Afghanistan completely.
 
2014-03-11 12:29:53 AM
s24.postimg.org
 
2014-03-11 12:43:11 AM

Ow! That was my feelings!: Basically, Federal law always wins. BUT, the Feds lack the resources to effectively enforce most of the laws they pass. Especially a 'possession' crime like MJ. That is why states legalizing is such a big deal. With the Feds lacking the resources to enforce, if the states/locals won't or can't, it becomes an unenforceable law.


The feds don't need to bust users.  They can target the growers.  All of the legal ones had to register themselves with the state in order to get their license, so the feds can easily gather names and addresses.  The whole system then shuts down.

The black market will continue to thrive, but the feds will be able to brag that they eliminated a criminal enterprise, making communities safer in the process.  They also get to seize a fair amount of money, property and possessions.  And the private prisons get some fresh meat.
 
2014-03-11 12:51:59 AM
If they legalized brothels again (they were legal prior to the early 1900s) and taxed them nationwide, we'd be able to pay down the national debt in no time, and then we could fund a national health care system and build a Death Star with the rest of the money.
 
2014-03-11 12:53:06 AM
If you think $2 million is alot (or... not alot, depending on your POV)... put it into perspective.

This is ONLY for the month of January.  This is ONLY for the number of stores that were operating


59 businesses filed a return for the Department of Revenue's report.
only 24 were actually approved to operate on Jan. 1.


February's numbers should be higher.
 
2014-03-11 01:05:28 AM

Dinjiin: Ow! That was my feelings!: Basically, Federal law always wins. BUT, the Feds lack the resources to effectively enforce most of the laws they pass. Especially a 'possession' crime like MJ. That is why states legalizing is such a big deal. With the Feds lacking the resources to enforce, if the states/locals won't or can't, it becomes an unenforceable law.

The feds don't need to bust users.  They can target the growers.  All of the legal ones had to register themselves with the state in order to get their license, so the feds can easily gather names and addresses.  The whole system then shuts down.

The black market will continue to thrive, but the feds will be able to brag that they eliminated a criminal enterprise, making communities safer in the process.  They also get to seize a fair amount of money, property and possessions.  And the private prisons get some fresh meat.


Well, the 'legal ones' registered with the State of Colorado. That list would create quite the fight with the Feds. No way Obama would piss on Colorado like that, and I doubt a Republican POTUS would either, considering the amount of Republican industry ownership. But I'm guessing the point will be moot before we have to find out. There is now too much real money flowing legally to stop it.

Colorado is a swing state, nobody nationally wants to piss us off. Hell, Denver is in the running for the RNC in 2016. No way the Feds are farking with us.
 
2014-03-11 01:22:50 AM

somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.


Federal law supersedes state law.
 
2014-03-11 01:39:11 AM
As more shops open in Boulder, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs the revenue will increase sharply. Boulder didn't even have any recreational shops until about two weeks ago.

The only question now is which state is next. I'm pretty sure it will be legal at the federal level within 10 years.
 
2014-03-11 02:24:40 AM

Nix Nightbird: If they legalized brothels again (they were legal prior to the early 1900s) and taxed them nationwide, we'd be able to pay down the national debt in no time, and then we could fund a national health care system and build a Death Star with the rest of the money.


1; someone upthread say the same thing, with practically the same wording,

and 2; Is legal prostitution really that exciting? I understand the philosophical argument, but is there something compelling about paying to put your dick in someone who doesn't like you that I'm not aware of?
 
2014-03-11 02:34:54 AM
When will there be enough pressure on politicians to change a broken and counter-productive system that no one has thought was working for a decade or more?  Hopefully, soon.
 
2014-03-11 02:38:38 AM
...and what is their annual budget? At the state level, $2 Million means about as much as a penny does to the average child nowadays.
 
2014-03-11 02:44:43 AM

Hickory-smoked: but is there something compelling about paying to put your dick in someone who doesn't like you that I'm not aware of?


Guaranteed, no effort, no attachments, possibly someone you could never get otherwise, in many cases cheaper than dating someone, always available, etc.
 
2014-03-11 03:11:17 AM

Hickory-smoked: Nix Nightbird: If they legalized brothels again (they were legal prior to the early 1900s) and taxed them nationwide, we'd be able to pay down the national debt in no time, and then we could fund a national health care system and build a Death Star with the rest of the money.

1; someone upthread say the same thing, with practically the same wording,

and 2; Is legal prostitution really that exciting? I understand the philosophical argument, but is there something compelling about paying to put your dick in someone who doesn't like you that I'm not aware of?


2 - it's not exciting because you can stick your dick in (I definitely wouldn't), legalising prostitution is exciting because various lonely guys are already sticking their dick in anyway, and by legalising it you get tax revenue, can enforce safety measures to a degree (for both Johns and the girls), and stop money going to the black market. There's more reasons for legalising prostitution than there are for legalising pot, when it comes right down to it.
 
2014-03-11 03:25:06 AM

maddermaxx: There's more reasons for legalising prostitution than there are for legalising pot, when it comes right down to it.


But the reasons for prohibiting are basically the same:  it offends some peoples morals (not coincidentally this group represents, or did, the majority of voters), and the wrong people profit (this is beginning to change, hence the growing legality of cannabis).
 
2014-03-11 03:44:55 AM
How many million did they take in from tobacco taxes?
 
2014-03-11 05:34:05 AM
Suck it, closed minded people.

This is a general insult to all those whose thinking is incorrect due to having a closed mind.

It applies to many threads.
 
2014-03-11 06:25:18 AM

Tr0mBoNe: Man, it's like they're taxing things that just grow in the ground and stuff. That's like... terrible or something, man. Oh archer is on.


LOL


fusillade762: I'm betting they saved more than that by not locking up pot smokers.


Yep.


king_nacho: [localtvwjw.files.wordpress.com image 398x242]

what $14 million in pot looks like based on current police estimates.


Of course, that estimate is based on black market prices.
How similar are those to prices being paid in Colorado?
 
2014-03-11 07:45:45 AM

somemoron: Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.


It doesn't matter.  A State cannot make a law that opposes a Federal law.
All of these people are being set up.
 
2014-03-11 07:48:28 AM

ex-nuke: How many million did they take in from tobacco taxes?


More important, how much did they lose with anti-smoking campaigns? So instead of cigs, people now smoke pot. Seems smart.
 
2014-03-11 08:36:31 AM

fusillade762: I'm betting they saved more than that by not locking up pot smokers.

And not arming local police with military grade weapons and armor to bust down doors to look for the pot smokers.

 
2014-03-11 09:10:30 AM

Hickory-smoked: Is legal prostitution really that exciting? I understand the philosophical argument, but is there something compelling about paying to put your dick in someone who doesn't like you that I'm not aware of?


You are married man, are ya Mr. Grady?
www.tvbomb.co.uk
 
2014-03-11 09:12:43 AM

dr_blasto: zepher: The majority of states just need to legalize it already.
The War on Drugs has been an epic failure that has done nothing but militarize our police and waste billions of dollars.

I'm interested to see how and, well, if the cops can be demilitarized. I'm going to guess they will have some other thing to sweat, like meth, that will require better body armor, identity concealment and more assault rifles while they pack into their APCs, maybe LA and NY will get a couple Abrams once we've pulled out of Afghanistan completely.


Since the police started working up their armament long before the 70's, i.e. 1920's, I doubt anyone will be able to give them a convincing argument to disarm.  Every time a cop is shot while performing a traffic stop, each cop looks at what they carry and wonders if it is enough to keep them from being the next one.  And if your job involves being the guy who is storming into a violent, hostile suspect's home, you'd want a lot more than a service gun and a vest.
 
2014-03-11 09:29:50 AM

lack of warmth: Since the police started working up their armament long before the 70's, i.e. 1920's, I doubt anyone will be able to give them a convincing argument to disarm. Every time a cop is shot while performing a traffic stop, each cop looks at what they carry and wonders if it is enough to keep them from being the next one. And if your job involves being the guy who is storming into a violent, hostile suspect's home, you'd want a lot more than a service gun and a vest.


The problem is cops are looked at (legally) as more equal than others.  Assault a regular person it is one thing, assault an (off duty) cop it is something completely different.  Things that would be guaranteed prison sentences for a normal person might (might!) get a cop a short paid leave.  Doing something to a police dog is assaulting an officer, an officer shooting your Dachsund because it barked at him is SOP.
 
2014-03-11 10:09:29 AM

AeAe: I should hope they got some money out of it.. because 37 PEOPLE DIED IN COLORADO as a result of pot legalization!


I wonder how many marijuanas they had to inject before they died.
 
2014-03-11 10:53:52 AM

GanjSmokr: Sadly, I think it's way less than what they were expecting.

"Last year's pot vote guessed that the taxes would produce $70 million a year, and it's unclear what lawmakers can do with tax money that exceeds that figure.

Colorado's Joint Budget Committee plans a Wednesday briefing with lawyers to lay out their options for spending pot taxes beyond $70 million."

Unless my math is off, I don't think they're going to have to worry about that anytime soon.


FTA, that amount of tax revenue looks like it was generated by just 24 stores, which is all that was open through most of January.  That comes out to about $87k per store.  They generated almost as much income as all of the liquor taxes for the entire state.

Damn
 
2014-03-11 12:43:55 PM

Pangea: AeAe: I should hope they got some money out of it.. because 37 PEOPLE DIED IN COLORADO as a result of pot legalization!

I wonder how many marijuanas they had to inject before they died.


At least 1 marijuana injection each.  At least 1.
 
2014-03-11 01:44:00 PM

maddermaxx: 2 - it's not exciting because you can stick your dick in (I definitely wouldn't), legalising prostitution is exciting because various lonely guys are already sticking their dick in anyway, and by legalising it you get tax revenue, can enforce safety measures to a degree (for both Johns and the girls), and stop money going to the black market. There's more reasons for legalising prostitution than there are for legalising pot, when it comes right down to it.


I largely agree, but the previous posters seem to think taxed and regulated prostitution would catapult the US to fiscal solvency. I was questioning if it would really be that popular.
 
2014-03-11 02:36:26 PM
they've got to add in the realized savings on the arrest/courts/detention side of the equation also... that's saved money.

and as we all know, a penny saved is a penny earned.
 
2014-03-11 03:31:40 PM

AeAe: Pangea: AeAe: I should hope they got some money out of it.. because 37 PEOPLE DIED IN COLORADO as a result of pot legalization!

I wonder how many marijuanas they had to inject before they died.

At least 1 marijuana injection each.  At least 1.


85.73 grams of pure thc right up the ol' tubing, bam! Dead. 70 grams? You're just fine. That's what makes even 1 marihuana dangerous!

/for a 150lb person
 
2014-03-11 03:54:25 PM

dr_blasto: dywed88: somemoron: I'm not a lawyer or government studiologist, so maybe someone familiar with the state vs federal system can chime in:

Let's say the feds never legalize pot at the national level... but all the states individually do.  What power/authority does the fed have in a case where no crime is committed at the state level, but on a federal level, if only on paper?  Is it even possible (legally) for the fed to maintain its illegality?

Doesn't have to be pot, could be anything.  Just curious about how this odd scenario would work out.

The Feds have every legal right to bust your ass for having pot in your own living room and to charge the state licensed distributor who sold it to you with drug trafficking (and probably a lot of follow up crimes). Federal law trumps state law, plain and simple.

They have said they won't pursue minor possession or state approved activities off of Federal land. But that is an administrative policy and if the next President decided he really needed the law and order vote, there is nothing stopping him from reversing that policy.

They certainly do have the legal authority, but they do not have the personnel. The DEA isn't so massive that they could attack the legal pot "problem" at the user end. There is zero chance of them projecting that legal authority to the user base. They can and will perform the small busts of morons that need to challenge their authority directly. They may go after the larger pot businesses, but at some point the DEA and other alphabet agencies won't be able to chase down all the bits and pieces as there will simply be too many. They won't have the needed bandwidth with USAs and they will have a very difficult time with juries.

In the end, the IRS will be the only way to stop the pot industry.


"Gettin' up fo Alpha-Bits is EZ!"
s29.postimg.org
 
2014-03-12 02:12:05 AM

TV's Vinnie: Now if only brothels were legal nationwide. Our national deficit would be wiped out AND we'd have enough funding for at least one Mars colony by the end of the year.


shiat, if brothels were legal, I'd be running one. I've always wanted to be like Lady Callahan... and while I have no moral problem with prostitution, I'd make sure the workers were treated fairly.
 
2014-03-12 03:08:41 AM

ladyfortuna: TV's Vinnie: Now if only brothels were legal nationwide. Our national deficit would be wiped out AND we'd have enough funding for at least one Mars colony by the end of the year.

shiat, if brothels were legal, I'd be running one. I've always wanted to be like Lady Callahan... and while I have no moral problem with prostitution, I'd make sure the workers were treated fairly.


That's the whole point. Using the Nevada system as a basis, the ladies are screened for drugs/STDs weekly, taxes are collected, and everybody's happy.

Except for the fundies and pimps, of course.
 
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