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(GigaOM)   Remember how Mt.Gox got hacked and lost all their bitcoins? About that   (gigaom.com) divider line 39
    More: Stupid, metric tons, bitcoins  
•       •       •

3654 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Mar 2014 at 8:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



39 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-03-10 08:08:07 PM  
southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

BOOM BABY!

The perfect heist!


/only it was worth a little more than WOW Gold, or so libertarian-minded FARKers discussing tax evasion would have me to believe.
 
2014-03-10 08:55:09 PM  
Luckily, all my money from selling drugs online is in stored in Kriegeraands.
 
2014-03-10 08:55:35 PM  
The currency OF THE FUTURE!
 
2014-03-10 08:56:18 PM  
What, did you think computer geeks were more trustworthy that your average Wall Street banker?
 
2014-03-10 08:57:15 PM  
bitcoinexaminer.org

REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP 

FIRST, I MUST SOLICIT YOUR STRICTEST CONFIDENCE IN THIS TRANSACTION. THIS IS BY VIRTUE OF ITS NATURE AS BEING UTTERLY CONFIDENTIAL AND 'TOP SECRET'. I AM SURE AND HAVE CONFIDENCE OF YOUR ABILITY AND RELIABILITY TO PROSECUTE A TRANSACTION OF THIS GREAT MAGNITUDE INVOLVING A PENDING TRANSACTION REQUIRING MAXIIMUM CONFIDENCE.
 
2014-03-10 09:04:01 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Luckily, all my money from selling drugs online is in stored in Kriegeraands.


Kriegeraands?

[was_it_over_when_the_Germans_bombed_Pearl_Harbor.gif]
 
2014-03-10 09:05:36 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Mad_Radhu: Luckily, all my money from selling drugs online is in stored in Kriegeraands.

Kriegeraands?

[was_it_over_when_the_Germans_bombed_Pearl_Harbor.gif]


Someone doesn't watch Archer
 
2014-03-10 09:07:06 PM  
global.fncstatic.com
 
2014-03-10 09:08:40 PM  

kieran57: demaL-demaL-yeH: Mad_Radhu: Luckily, all my money from selling drugs online is in stored in Kriegeraands.

Kriegeraands?
[was_it_over_when_the_Germans_bombed_Pearl_Harbor.gif]

Someone doesn't watch Archer


Someone hasn't watched TV since "reality" shows came out, but that's beside the point.
 
2014-03-10 09:11:26 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Someone hasn't watched TV since "reality" shows came out, but that's beside the point.


I stopped processing visual information the day I saw my mom walk out of the shower. I understand your method.
 
2014-03-10 09:17:51 PM  
Looks like Mr. Karpeles almost MADE-OFF with a lot of other people's money.  He probably would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling kids at Reddit....
 
2014-03-10 09:19:02 PM  
i'm not sure this means anything. if what they said where true wouldn't their db's reflect that they still held all the bit coins? this just seems like if a bank suddenly discovered its vault was empty and told customers they got ripped off, then a customer posted the banks ledgers like 'look they say they had a bunch of money in the vault'..... i mean yeah these dick bags are either criminals, negligent as all hell, or some combination.... I just don't see what this particular leak means, if anything. I guess maybe its for publicity to spread their trojan lol.

jesus bitcoin is a corrupt and idiotic pos. i guess this is what happens when you kill all regulations and protections and trust a bunch of criminals.
 
2014-03-10 09:19:05 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: demaL-demaL-yeH: Someone hasn't watched TV since "reality" shows came out, but that's beside the point.

I stopped processing visual information the day I saw my mom walk out of the shower. I understand your method.


*shudder*
I heard your sister, Antigone, didn't take it well, either.
 
2014-03-10 09:21:12 PM  
this is really shocking.  You'd think we lived in a world where a bank by the name Magic The Gathering Online Exchange could be trusted
 
2014-03-10 09:35:59 PM  

Roook: this is really shocking.  You'd think we lived in a world where a bank by the name Magic The Gathering Online Exchange could be trusted


Thanks for pointing out what mtgox stands for. Everybody missed that in that last 3,000 bitcoin threads. Keep up the good work.
 
2014-03-10 09:37:42 PM  

schoolbread: Roook: this is really shocking.  You'd think we lived in a world where a bank by the name Magic The Gathering Online Exchange could be trusted

Thanks for pointing out what mtgox stands for. Everybody missed that in that last 3,000 bitcoin threads. Keep up the good work.


enough people missed it to give them 600 million lol
 
2014-03-10 09:40:24 PM  

NickelP: schoolbread: Roook: this is really shocking.  You'd think we lived in a world where a bank by the name Magic The Gathering Online Exchange could be trusted

Thanks for pointing out what mtgox stands for. Everybody missed that in that last 3,000 bitcoin threads. Keep up the good work.

enough people missed it to give them 600 million lol


Lol true enough
 
2014-03-10 09:41:20 PM  

Close2TheEdge: The currency OF THE FUTURE!


I'm sure you have a point, and that its really stupid.
 
2014-03-10 09:46:27 PM  
Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.
 
2014-03-10 10:11:36 PM  

spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.


Or, and bare with me here because it's a difficult concept to believe another human being could do, Mark Karples is lying through his teeth, and the whole thing was a gigantic scam on par with what they do in EVE Online all the time.
 
2014-03-10 10:20:19 PM  

NickelP: i'm not sure this means anything. if what they said where true wouldn't their db's reflect that they still held all the bit coins? this just seems like if a bank suddenly discovered its vault was empty and told customers they got ripped off, then a customer posted the banks ledgers like 'look they say they had a bunch of money in the vault'..... i mean yeah these dick bags are either criminals, negligent as all hell, or some combination.... I just don't see what this particular leak means, if anything. I guess maybe its for publicity to spread their trojan lol.

jesus bitcoin is a corrupt and idiotic pos. i guess this is what happens when you kill all regulations and protections and trust a bunch of criminals.


The libertarian utopia!
 
2014-03-10 10:24:23 PM  
Not surprised at all, it was always far more likely ones running the show made off with the loot.
 
2014-03-10 10:41:10 PM  

hardinparamedic: spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.

Or, and bare with me here because it's a difficult concept to believe another human being could do, Mark Karples is lying through his teeth, and the whole thing was a gigantic scam on par with what they do in EVE Online all the time.


If the numbers are correct, he could pay everyone back, and still have 60+ mill. USD.

I simply don't believe the leaked numbers are correct, and if they aren't, it lends credibility to their claim of just being incompetent.
 
2014-03-10 10:59:46 PM  
I saw this coming three months ago when they claimed to have lost a whole bunch of bitcoins in the duplicate-withdrawal bug, which every other exchange on the planet had apparently accounted for for years. I'm thinking obviously some rogue employee was skimming off the top and gave the pointy-haired bosses that BS excuse when called out on it. I'm guessing they realized the game was up and made off with the rest that night.
 
2014-03-10 11:34:16 PM  

spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.


750k customer coins were missing
100k of their own coins were missing
950k coins are left

I have NOT seen an article that has ever stated how many coins that they had before the "theft" happened.
 
2014-03-10 11:51:46 PM  
I like how all the bitcoin threads a few months ago were filled with people crowing about how well they invested in bitcoins or asking about how to get into it.  Now it's all "duh, of COURSE it was a fraud".

I have no doubt that there's some overlap in these groups as well.
 
2014-03-11 12:17:32 AM  

spawn73: If the numbers are correct, he could pay everyone back, and still have 60+ mill. USD.


Why, when he can go for the big bankroll on something that isn't regulated or legally protected to begin with?

Outside of hiring someone to off this guy, good luck getting him on fraud.
 
2014-03-11 12:23:52 AM  

namatad: spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.

750k customer coins were missing
100k of their own coins were missing
950k coins are left

I have NOT seen an article that has ever stated how many coins that they had before the "theft" happened.


Assuming the 950k coins left were what remained, they could at least offer a 50% recovery to their victims.

At any rate, it was clear MtGox was trying to devalue BTC - exchanges were still trading @ $600+ while MtG was offering $100. Lots of odd behavior on their part.

I'm inclined to think nobody is getting anything back at this point. The people who ran MtG are just buying time trying to figure out how to cash out and change identities to spend their ill-gotten gains. It was stupid for people to leave BTC in the exchange like that - but most of them were day traders leveraging their BTC into profits by working the exchange rate changes.

Another possibility is these "hackers" are simply part of the outfit that ripped MtG off, and they are simply adding to the confusion as they try and unload a few $million worth of BTC while everybody throws the spotlight back on the MtG people.

John Nash: I like how all the bitcoin threads a few months ago were filled with people crowing about how well they invested in bitcoins or asking about how to get into it.  Now it's all "duh, of COURSE it was a fraud".

I have no doubt that there's some overlap in these groups as well.


One really doesn't have to do with the other. As for what happened, who the fark knows for sure? Some people have believed it was an inside job from the beginning because a couple of other small exchanges were inside jobs.

As for investment, as I stated, there are always people willing it risk large amounts of money to ride the changes in valuation, whether its stocks, futures, or cryptos. The problem with cryptos is the exchanges aren't regulated, and you might as well be handing your wallet over to a shady character in the back alley. At least the stock market is (presumably) regulated and has oversight. Cryptocurrency is particularly vulnerable for the same reasons it is valued as a currency - it is fairly anonymous.

I'm not sure how MtGox managed people's balances - did they dump all of the BTC into a single wallet and portion it out from there? Did they simply have the keys in a database and access each wallet individually? At any rate... they are the only ones that could have traced where the currency was being leaked, and it seems they did not do this. They basically held everything that identified the wallet(s) holding the BTC, and I doubt anybody outside of them will ever be allowed to look at them. In other words, there is no transparency in how they are handling any remaining BTC, which breeds suspicion, of course.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world continues to move on, and trade continues in BTC on other exchanges.
 
2014-03-11 12:25:14 AM  
I have to admit, getting people to hand over the private keys to the public key encryption is brilliant. With those private keys MtGox could help itself to other people's bitcoins at their leisure.
 
2014-03-11 12:30:49 AM  

LesserEvil: and they are simply adding to the confusion as they try and unload a few $million worth of BTC while everybody throws the spotlight back on the MtG people.


Unless of course they've been moving it around and perhaps cashing it out for a long time. Complaints about slow pay outs from MtGox go way back. MtGox had no problem taking cash, but when it came to paying it out they kept getting slower and slower. And at least early on it seemed to be a sporadic thing, which could indicate those who were having a problem had their wallets cleared out and those who didn't have a problem didn't. Also the problem got worse and worse, with pay outs taking longer and longer until they effectively stopped, and it effected more and more people along the way. Wouldn't have taken much for them to be moving around all that bitcoin with no one ever noticing anything is up. It's the one thing with an anonymous system, it's very easy to move money around with no one ever detecting anything is up. Not that it appears there are many people keeping tabs on things to see if anything is up.
 
2014-03-11 03:39:40 AM  
I'm wondering if mtGox was running a ponzi scheme the whole time and used bitcoines as the cover.
 
2014-03-11 04:34:31 AM  

hardinparamedic: spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.

Or, and bare with me here because it's a difficult concept to believe another human being could do, Mark Karples is lying through his teeth, and the whole thing was a gigantic scam on par with what they do in EVE Online all the time.


Hey, give the EVE scams some credit.  Some of them are hilarious, some are cruel, and some are downright obvious.  But some are pretty clever, much more so than "here's a currency with no real regulations, we'll store that for you.  You know, just in case"
 
2014-03-11 07:48:58 AM  

spawn73: Close2TheEdge: The currency OF THE FUTURE!

I'm sure you have a point, and that its really stupid.


Yes I do.  Bitcoin is a scam and has no future beyond online drug dealing and kiddie porn.

But go on, continue to live the dream.
 
2014-03-11 09:03:52 AM  

LesserEvil: The people who ran MtG are just buying time trying to figure out how to cash out and change identities to spend their ill-gotten gains


I thought I read an article a couple weeks back that basically said that stealing someone's bitcoins isn't recognized as theft under the law since it isn't a currency recognized by the government. Anyone else remember that? If true you might hide the fraud just so none of your victims seeks revenge, but at least you won't have to worry about legal action.
 
2014-03-11 09:34:50 AM  

John Nash: I like how all the bitcoin threads a few months ago were filled with people crowing about how well they invested in bitcoins or asking about how to get into it.  Now it's all "duh, of COURSE it was a fraud".

I have no doubt that there's some overlap in these groups as well.


What is it about bitcoin that makes people completely incapable of distinguishing between actors/entities/the thing itself?  MtGox is not Bitcoin.  MtGox is an exchange - singular, as in one of many - that dealt in Bitcoin.
 
2014-03-11 09:41:08 AM  

namatad: spawn73: Obviously the data in the hack isn't correct. If they truly do own 951,116 Bitcoins, then paying customers back 750,000 Bitcoins wouldn't be a problem.

A 201,116 surplus of Bitcoins would make them very rich.


So, the numbers in that hack just doesn't add up. I think MtGox just haven't got a clue what went down, only that they don't have any Bitcoins.

750k customer coins were missing
100k of their own coins were missing
950k coins are left

I have NOT seen an article that has ever stated how many coins that they had before the "theft" happened.


I'm going with, "over 9000."
 
2014-03-11 09:47:32 AM  
Nope, I don't remember.  But then again, I don't invest in fake money.
 
2014-03-11 01:31:04 PM  

broadwayLamb: I thought I read an article a couple weeks back that basically said that stealing someone's bitcoins isn't recognized as theft under the law since it isn't a currency recognized by the government. Anyone else remember that? If true you might hide the fraud just so none of your victims seeks revenge, but at least you won't have to worry about legal action.


Given the fact that some people legitimately lost everything they had when MtGox collapsed, including people who had  bought into it with their life savings and sold their homes to buy into Bitcoin, I wouldn't be surprised if Mark Karples isn't found floating face down in a river somewhere after committing suicide by point blank gunshot to the back of the head.
 
2014-03-11 02:24:20 PM  

China White Tea: John Nash: I like how all the bitcoin threads a few months ago were filled with people crowing about how well they invested in bitcoins or asking about how to get into it.  Now it's all "duh, of COURSE it was a fraud".

I have no doubt that there's some overlap in these groups as well.

What is it about bitcoin that makes people completely incapable of distinguishing between actors/entities/the thing itself?  MtGox is not Bitcoin.  MtGox is an exchange - singular, as in one of many - that dealt in Bitcoin.


I've heard this excuse repeatedly in Bitcoin apologist threads.  And I just don't buy it.  Yes, MtGox was just an exchange, but it was also one of the largest exchanges.  I think it is perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions about the overall stability of your crypto-currency when one of the largest exchanges is the victim of either negligence, fraud, theft, or all of the above, such that millions of "investors" have been wiped out.

Is there a future for an online currency?  Sure.  But this unregulated libertarian wet dream doesn't seem to be it.  The real attraction of it right now looks to be mere asset speculation.
 
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