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(The American Spectator)   Conservatives are upset that 12 Years a Slave didn't represent a 'kind master or a contented slave'... because you know... most slaves were happy   (spectator.org) divider line 469
    More: Asinine, Years a Slave, stop and frisk, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Steve McQueen, New York Police Department  
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10608 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2014 at 5:22 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-11 02:02:55 PM

sobriquet by any other name: "Giving at least as much attention to their health as you would a team of horses.  Not housing them in such a way that you were guaranteed to lose half each winter.  And not working them to death as wouldn't need explaining "

If i may be specific, i deny that they have any reason to "look out" for the health of slaves - most people lived until 19 or so in any case, then you'd have their sons and daughters to work with.

It's just so sanitary in your version. That's what I don't like, it's not personal.


That's the libertarian point of view on the matter, it wasn't so bad, it was just business as usual at the time.
 
2014-03-11 02:03:10 PM

InterruptingQuirk: FlashHarry: InterruptingQuirk: I suppose we could look at this from the point of view of PETA. They believe that people should not own slaves pets.

so... black people are like dogs and cats?

i'm not sure what your point is here.

RTFT


LOL, Fark Technical Support Ticket #4598398: Didn't read thread, i'm confused send help!
 
2014-03-11 02:05:42 PM

Latinwolf: sobriquet by any other name: "Giving at least as much attention to their health as you would a team of horses.  Not housing them in such a way that you were guaranteed to lose half each winter.  And not working them to death as wouldn't need explaining "

If i may be specific, i deny that they have any reason to "look out" for the health of slaves - most people lived until 19 or so in any case, then you'd have their sons and daughters to work with.

It's just so sanitary in your version. That's what I don't like, it's not personal.

That's the libertarian point of view on the matter, it wasn't so bad, it was just business as usual at the time.


Thanks, I really don't like the lolbertarian point of view. Maybe that's because i'm not a self-centered ayn rand fart huffing child, or maybe it's because i've got a heart. Their pick.
 
2014-03-11 02:07:29 PM

Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.

Thing of it is, if you want a career as a victim, saying your slave ancestors were happy doesn't add to your victim credentials.

I just found out I had ancestors who owned slaves in Maryland.  I shrugged.  So what?  I don't feel guilty.

/lifelong yankee
//we should've picked our own cotton



Of course not.  All the beatings, dismemberment, rape, tearing families apart.  Those were all misunderstandings.  The goodly Southern Christians would never harm another person, sub-human though they may have been.

/You shouldn't feel guilty about your ancestors being slave owners.  It had nothing to do with you.
//You should be ashamed about being a raging racist POS.
 
2014-03-11 02:13:18 PM

chuggernaught: Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.


The funniest half-assed semi-retraction of an already asinine statement you'll hear tod... ah damn nevermind, someone upped it already.

/It's  verytrue that statement is all kinds of apologist/daydream wrong.
 
2014-03-11 02:35:32 PM

InterruptingQuirk: FlashHarry: InterruptingQuirk: I suppose we could look at this from the point of view of PETA. They believe that people should not own slaves pets.

so... black people are like dogs and cats?

i'm not sure what your point is here.

RTFT


i did RTFT, and i still don't get what you're saying. even if a hundred years from now, people look down upon present-day pet owners for keeping animals in bondage, you cannot compare that hypothetical situation to that of slavery. humans are simply not dogs or cats. and unless we look upon dogs and cats as true equals 100 years from now (in which case rick santorum may be right about marrying a dog), your comparison falls apart.
 
2014-03-11 03:01:02 PM

FlashHarry: InterruptingQuirk: FlashHarry: InterruptingQuirk: I suppose we could look at this from the point of view of PETA. They believe that people should not own slaves pets.

so... black people are like dogs and cats?

i'm not sure what your point is here.

RTFT

i did RTFT, and i still don't get what you're saying. even if a hundred years from now, people look down upon present-day pet owners for keeping animals in bondage, you cannot compare that hypothetical situation to that of slavery. humans are simply not dogs or cats. and unless we look upon dogs and cats as true equals 100 years from now (in which case rick santorum may be right about marrying a dog), your comparison falls apart.


I am the last person you need to convince of the disparity between animals and human beings, but the multitudes of people on this planet who equate their animal companions with their human companions would easily understand the comparison. It is helpful both to illustrate the thinking at the time for us who are so distanced from the events spoken of, especially when it mirrors the practices of pet ownership, how easy it is to slip into a habit of owning life and dictating its every waking moment.
 
2014-03-11 03:05:37 PM
I don't agree with PETA, but mostly because I don't care about pets. I eat animals galore, and therefore don't feel I have the right to say what other people do with the animals they deny liberty to in their own way.

Is this trying to highlight that I've been trolled or is this literally "black people are dogs"?


I like the effort, but you're way beyond 95% of the people here.
 
2014-03-11 05:00:49 PM

ikanreed: Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.

Thing of it is, if you want a career as a victim, saying your slave ancestors were happy doesn't add to your victim credentials.

I just found out I had ancestors who owned slaves in Maryland.  I shrugged.  So what?  I don't feel guilty.

/lifelong yankee
//we should've picked our own cotton

Having exactly zero choice in how to live your life: not being mistreated.  I think it's entirely warranted to say "fark you, you racist piece of shiat" in this particular case.


It's funny - if we were to say that, for the most part, members of a Communist society weren't mistreated, they'd be so outraged it would break the instrument measuring it.
 
2014-03-11 05:12:56 PM

vygramul: ikanreed: Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.

Thing of it is, if you want a career as a victim, saying your slave ancestors were happy doesn't add to your victim credentials.

I just found out I had ancestors who owned slaves in Maryland.  I shrugged.  So what?  I don't feel guilty.

/lifelong yankee
//we should've picked our own cotton

Having exactly zero choice in how to live your life: not being mistreated.  I think it's entirely warranted to say "fark you, you racist piece of shiat" in this particular case.

It's funny - if we were to say that, for the most part, members of a Communist society weren't mistreated, they'd be so outraged it would break the instrument measuring it.


Yeah, the worst thing they say about Communist Russia was that people were sent to Gulags, which were just work camps, where you did manual labor you didn't want to, in an unpleasant climate in order to comply with a culture that is not your own.
 
2014-03-11 05:23:11 PM

ikanreed: vygramul: ikanreed: Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.

Thing of it is, if you want a career as a victim, saying your slave ancestors were happy doesn't add to your victim credentials.

I just found out I had ancestors who owned slaves in Maryland.  I shrugged.  So what?  I don't feel guilty.

/lifelong yankee
//we should've picked our own cotton

Having exactly zero choice in how to live your life: not being mistreated.  I think it's entirely warranted to say "fark you, you racist piece of shiat" in this particular case.

It's funny - if we were to say that, for the most part, members of a Communist society weren't mistreated, they'd be so outraged it would break the instrument measuring it.

Yeah, the worst thing they say about Communist Russia was that people were sent to Gulags, which were just work camps, where you did manual labor you didn't want to, in an unpleasant climate in order to comply with a culture that is not your own.


But the guards at the Gulags smiled and fed those people, so they really didn't have it so bad. Because, I mean hey, three hots and a cot.
 
2014-03-11 06:02:00 PM

grumpfuff: ikanreed: vygramul: ikanreed: Miss Alexandra: It may well be that for the most part, slaves weren't mistreated.  Not saying there weren't some that were.

Thing of it is, if you want a career as a victim, saying your slave ancestors were happy doesn't add to your victim credentials.

I just found out I had ancestors who owned slaves in Maryland.  I shrugged.  So what?  I don't feel guilty.

/lifelong yankee
//we should've picked our own cotton

Having exactly zero choice in how to live your life: not being mistreated.  I think it's entirely warranted to say "fark you, you racist piece of shiat" in this particular case.

It's funny - if we were to say that, for the most part, members of a Communist society weren't mistreated, they'd be so outraged it would break the instrument measuring it.

Yeah, the worst thing they say about Communist Russia was that people were sent to Gulags, which were just work camps, where you did manual labor you didn't want to, in an unpleasant climate in order to comply with a culture that is not your own.

But the guards at the Gulags smiled and fed those people, so they really didn't have it so bad. Because, I mean hey, three hots and a cot.


And even in One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich there was a warder who was a good guy.
 
2014-03-11 07:27:47 PM

MrSteve007: While there certainly were terrible slave owners (and the simple fact that slavery in itself is terrible), there were many cases where freed slaves stayed with the previous "owners" by choice, as paid servants.

But lets not let that get in the way of a good internet argument!


You mean as opposed to simply starving in the streets?

You're quite right. I wouldn't let that pathetic excuse for an argument get in the way of a good one.
 
2014-03-11 07:39:00 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: MrSteve007: While there certainly were terrible slave owners (and the simple fact that slavery in itself is terrible), there were many cases where freed slaves stayed with the previous "owners" by choice, as paid servants.

But lets not let that get in the way of a good internet argument!

You mean as opposed to simply starving in the streets?

You're quite right. I wouldn't let that pathetic excuse for an argument get in the way of a good one.


You're being awfully generous not to write it off as Stockholm syndrome.
 
2014-03-11 07:54:32 PM

FlashHarry: wambu: just like there were blacks who owned slaves

i... don't even want to google that. care to back up that assertion?


Ta-Nashi Coats covered this awhile back. Yes, there were freed blacks who owned slaves. The  reasonthat they owned slaves is important, however. The major reason was simply that this was often the only way to give any kind of emancipation to existing slaves.

By buying up slaves and giving them a haven, you could grant them a modicum of freedom.

I can't find Coats' article (which is a pity), but The Straight Dope has covered it, too:  http://clatl.com/atlanta/benevolent-slavery/Content?oid=1276135

tl;dr: Although some free blacks did, in fact, "own" slaves, the primary purpose was to provide them with a semblance of freedom.

Naturally, this doesn't really line up with the implied narrative that blacks were just as awful as whites and that they systematically subjected their own people to the lash.
 
2014-03-11 08:11:39 PM

bobothemagnificent: hey liberals: it was republicans that abolished slavery.


When you can tell us about the Dixiecrats and the Southern Strategy and why the modern GOP is so strongly affiliated with the South, we can talk about the fact that the Republicans used to be a much more progressive party.

Until then, the rest of us are going to recognize this lame talking point exactly for what it is: distraction and evasion.
 
2014-03-11 08:51:10 PM
And singing! I demand more singing!

/Have not seen it.
//Is there singing?
 
2014-03-11 08:57:48 PM

Jesus McSordid: And singing! I demand more singing!

/Have not seen it.
//Is there singing?


Here ya go :)

/my wife is a musical encyclopedia
 
2014-03-11 11:08:34 PM
To sum this up and have the last word:

The GOTP is really saying "Slavery might have been really horrible, but that's because you ran away from us. If you knew the truth, you might even like it". Then they bust out Green Eggs and Ham, to illustrate why you should just stay in the box.

/they dont make a lick of sense, but that's the whole point. it's  easy to listen to.
 
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