Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   If you think standardized testing is bad, wait until you see what happens when a parent opts her kid out of the test   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, University of Denver, parents, standardized test, online school, report cards, school library  
•       •       •

21852 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2014 at 1:11 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



295 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2014-03-10 02:44:19 PM  

HAMMERTOE: It was written by Ted Kennedy.


The very definition of disingenuous: And John Boehner (R) and Judd Gregg (R) and George Miller (D). And proposed by GWB.
 
2014-03-10 02:45:46 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: I wonder how many people in this thread screaming "suck it up snowflake" have children and fully understand the rampant and spreading plague of standardized testing and how different school is for kids these days.  My daughter is SEVEN and in FIRST GRADE she's already taking standardized tests three or four times a year, complete with reports sent home letting us know exactly where she falls in relation to her classmates, the school and the district.  Nothing like letting a seven year old know that life is nothing but rating and competition.

School is no longer an exploration of subjects, it's "let's prepare to take a test...here's the test, lets talk about the test...here are the test results".

And the more we sit around and say "well it's school, they must know what they're doing, and I went to school and I was fine, so everything must be exactly the same!"  the worse it's going to get.

For a long time, there were Chicago Public Schools where six year old kids sat at their desks for all but twenty minutes in a seven hour day.  No recess.  Minimum PE, lunch at their desks.  BECAUSE WE HAD TO TEACH TO THE TEST.  It's crap.

While you may not agree with this particular mom, I agree that if more parents don't stand up to this bullshiat, school is going to continue to become nothing but corporately owned vocational programs, training drones to do nothing but the specific jobs the corporations want ::cough:: charter school ::cough::.


I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers than the test.
 
2014-03-10 02:46:08 PM  

BunkyBrewman: This is one article you might consider taking the few minutes to read and how these types of tests don't do anything for the students, but everything for the schools they attend.


Since the article says exactly the opposite of that, perhaps you opted out of basic reading classes yourself?
 
2014-03-10 02:46:34 PM  

cynicalminion: teenytinycornteeth: Nothing like letting a seven year old know that life is nothing but rating and competition.

[img.fark.net image 500x546]


I'm not sure what the fark your point is...but good work.
 
2014-03-10 02:47:27 PM  

PanicMan: jst3p: we're just here for one academic year while I'm a visiting professor at the University of Denver. My daughters, ages 13 and 14, are strong students.

What kind of crappy parent bounces their kids in and out of a school for a year at this age?

As an Army brat, I never went to the same school two years in a row until 11th grade (10th and 11th in same building).  I actually freaked out a bit, I had spent my whole life being the new kid, I had no skills of how to handle familiarity.

So I guess the answer is, lots of kids go through this.


and if your dad(mom?) had a choice.. would they have uprooted the family every couple years?

my guess is no.,
 
2014-03-10 02:52:45 PM  
TNel:

I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers ...


Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year?  how did it do on judging your creative development?  Your intuitive skills?  How about approaching problems from different angles?  How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature?  Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning.  SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it.  Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.

I guess it really comes down to what you want your kid learning in school.  If you want  your kid to learn exclusively how to follow directions and go with the mainstream, to know how multiple choice works and to master nothing but factual, rote answers like science and math provide, all this stuff is like manna from heaven. If you want a kid to be more well rounded, to be able to think about things from both sides, to solve problems creatively, to value social and psychological development as well as hard and fast data and don't forget those "stupid, useless" topics like art, music, literature, drama...then maybe not so much.
 
2014-03-10 02:53:24 PM  

kvinesknows: PanicMan: jst3p: we're just here for one academic year while I'm a visiting professor at the University of Denver. My daughters, ages 13 and 14, are strong students.

What kind of crappy parent bounces their kids in and out of a school for a year at this age?

As an Army brat, I never went to the same school two years in a row until 11th grade (10th and 11th in same building).  I actually freaked out a bit, I had spent my whole life being the new kid, I had no skills of how to handle familiarity.

So I guess the answer is, lots of kids go through this.

and if your dad(mom?) had a choice.. would they have uprooted the family every couple years?

my guess is no.,


I was a Navy brat--moved every 3 years myself.  The fact that we were transient had no bearing on whether or not I took a damned test.  The "we're only here for a year" argument is the weakest of her reasons.

So what if they move a lot?  It's completely irrelevant.
 
2014-03-10 02:53:30 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: Tax Boy: If only there were some way to overcome anxiety by practicing that thing you were anxious about....

Perhaps with test anxiety, taking practice tests might help? Like for example, taking a stupid meaningless standardized test as practice for tests that actually matter?

Mollycoddled kid is mollycoddled.

So you admit that it's stupid and meaningless but you still think it's perfectly fine to demand our kids take them multiple times a year (depending on the test)?  Good plan.


it's about being there.  the kids don't have to get anything right, they can spend half an hour trying to figure out the perfect combination to kill the scan-tron machine. they participated.  and anyone who has comparatory results from a classroom probably has grounds for a lawsuit given that their personal performance was being "graded"... and so does the rest of that class...
 
2014-03-10 02:54:12 PM  
Almost 160 posts and no one has asked is our kids learning.

W was right.
 
2014-03-10 02:55:05 PM  
TrixieDelite: Okieboy: I was expecting a thrilling finish to this exciting read....nothing.


/who the hell cares

FTFA:

The last phone call I received was from the Dean of Students at Harvard University. The middle school's vice-principal's daughter had once dated the nephew of the cousin of the daughter of the Dean, and so the vp had contacted the Dean for assistance.

The Dean was very clear in her insistence that my daughter take the test, and her reasoning grew more antagonistic. My daughter would end up a meth addict, she said. Pregnant at 15, destined to live under the George Washington Bridge and selling her body to keep her fix on. She'd have piercings in her face done by a transient with a dirty syringe, and they'd become infected and start weeping vile-smelling pus into her filthy dreadlocks. She'd get ingrown toenails and lick ketchup out of the discarded packets on the ground by the Sabretts carts. Her vocabulary would disintegrate into street slang consisting of, "A'ight?" and "Y'knowwhatI'msayin'" and "Ya hear me, dog?"

And that became too much for me to bear. I'm a strong, educated woman with great posture and a killer smile. I eat school administrators for lunch and laugh at their threats against my family. But the thought of my daughter uttering the word "A'ight" when asked if she wanted another crumpet with her tea was too much to bear. I went home that very day, pried the phone out of my girl's perfectly polished nails, and marched her right back to school...but not before getting a copy of the test into her hot little hands. There's no way I'm going to let my girl be a FAILURE.


Your newsletter, I would like to subscribe.....
 
2014-03-10 02:56:16 PM  

PsiChick: doyner: Benevolent Misanthrope: swaniefrmreddeer: What is she teaching her kids? If it's hard, don't worry mommy will take care of you. Her reasons/excuses are irrelevant, the school her kids attend has the test, then the kids should goddamned well take the the test. No wonder we have a whole generation of precious snowflakes.

1/10.  RTFA, asshole.

BM, I usually really like your posts, but hold on a second.

FTFA: "Deciding to opt my two daughters out of Colorado standardized testing seemed like a no-brainer. We aren't permanent Colorado residents-we're just here for one academic year1while I'm a visiting professor at the University of Denver. My daughters, ages 13 and 14, are strong students. My husband and I see no educational benefit2to the tests. My younger daughter experienced some serious test anxiety a couple of years back3when taking Pennsylvania's standardized tests."

1: So what?  Are they in the Colorado system or not?
2: They go on to admit that they did no research beforehand and were using their gut decider-style.
3: Boo farking hoo.  Life is hard.  Overcoming anxiety is a life skill.

Her decision was whimsical at best, and has potential reprocussions for others.  Yes, standardized tests have gone way too far, butshe comes nowhere close to adequately articulating a reasonable argument for this action.  To the contrary, she explains why it's probably not such a great idea.

Actually, absence of the stimulus can help reduce fear\anxiety if it's done calmly. Confronting it  isn't always the best solution. So unless you can provide some other reason the children (both children, not just one) should take the test--because it's a big waste of time and, as the mom points out, measures something she already knows--there isn't a valid reason for this test to be taken.


wrong...  the week of standardized testing was almost as much fun as walking into a room and seeing a film cart.  :)
 
2014-03-10 02:56:54 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: TNel:

I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers ...

Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year?  how did it do on judging your creative development?  Your intuitive skills?  How about approaching problems from different angles?  How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature?  Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning.  SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it.  Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.



Tying funding to standardized tests also creates a toxic environment that encourages behavior like this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/memo-could-revive-alle ga tions-of-cheating-in-dc-public-schools/2013/04/12/9ddb2bb6-a35e-11e2-9 c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

Teachers in 18 District classrooms cheated on high-stakes standardized tests last year,
 
2014-03-10 02:57:49 PM  
The Assistant Principal

www.soundonsight.org
 
2014-03-10 02:58:08 PM  
When I was in school the standardized tests had no effect on your grade. We just guessed and sped through it as fast as possible to get a longer lunch break. I doubt I ever got better than 25% on those tests.  Instead of opting out, just encourage your litter to spoil their tests and mess up the statistics.
 
2014-03-10 02:59:24 PM  

TNel: ElLoco: I can sum up the school's side of that entire episode with one quote from the article:

"Joyce Zurkowski, the executive director of assessment, explained to me that, in Colorado, as long as a school has 95 percent participation, a kid's opting out has no effect at all on school funding."

If people wonder what was going through the minds of the school's administration... that was it. Funding.

God forbid they want to keep money coming in.  When your boss gets upset about something do you up and leave or do you stay because of the funding?  Money drives all.


I'm neither condoning nor condemning the school's actions. People are making up a myriad of ridiculous reasons on why they tried to prevent the opt-out. I simply boiled it down to the lowest common denominator. Money. Kid's don't participate... school can lose funding.
 
2014-03-10 02:59:28 PM  

cynicalminion: teenytinycornteeth: Tax Boy: If only there were some way to overcome anxiety by practicing that thing you were anxious about....

Perhaps with test anxiety, taking practice tests might help? Like for example, taking a stupid meaningless standardized test as practice for tests that actually matter?

Mollycoddled kid is mollycoddled.

So you admit that it's stupid and meaningless but you still think it's perfectly fine to demand our kids take them multiple times a year (depending on the test)?  Good plan.

it's about being there.  the kids don't have to get anything right, they can spend half an hour trying to figure out the perfect combination to kill the scan-tron machine. they participated.  and anyone who has comparatory results from a classroom probably has grounds for a lawsuit given that their personal performance was being "graded"... and so does the rest of that class...


So what we're teaching our kids through this experience is "don't bother to question why we're doing it, just show up and be quiet and if possible, try and screw the results because the activity is JUST THAT MEANINGLESS".
 
2014-03-10 03:00:20 PM  

jfbnr24: jst3p: I am not defending standardized testing, but I don't see how you get stressed about them

Test anxiety is  very real


I know,  I just don't know how anyone gets anxious after being told that it wont affect their grade.
 
2014-03-10 03:00:31 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year? how did it do on judging your creative development? Your intuitive skills? How about approaching problems from different angles? How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature? Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning. SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it. Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.

I guess it really comes down to what you want your kid learning in school. If you want your kid to learn exclusively how to follow directions and go with the mainstream, to know how multiple choice works and to master nothing but factual, rote answers like science and math provide, all this stuff is like manna from heaven. If you want a kid to be more well rounded, to be able to think about things from both sides, to solve problems creatively, to value social and psychological development as well as hard and fast data and don't forget those "stupid, useless" topics like art, music, literature, drama...then maybe not so much.


How long do you want these tests to be?  I'm sorry that Math, Science, and English are being pushed ahead of Art and Music but 99% of people will use those items way more often than the others.

So you have a problem with testing what kids know?
 
2014-03-10 03:02:45 PM  

jst3p: teenytinycornteeth: TNel:

I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers ...

Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year?  how did it do on judging your creative development?  Your intuitive skills?  How about approaching problems from different angles?  How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature?  Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning.  SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it.  Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.


Tying funding to standardized tests also creates a toxic environment that encourages behavior like this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/memo-could-revive-alle ga tions-of-cheating-in-dc-public-schools/2013/04/12/9ddb2bb6-a35e-11e2-9 c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

Teachers in 18 District classrooms cheated on high-stakes standardized tests last year,


OK.  So I'm not sure how your link shuts me down in any way. I am against over testing students.
 
2014-03-10 03:04:20 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: jst3p: teenytinycornteeth: TNel:

I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers ...

Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year?  how did it do on judging your creative development?  Your intuitive skills?  How about approaching problems from different angles?  How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature?  Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning.  SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it.  Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.


Tying funding to standardized tests also creates a toxic environment that encourages behavior like this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/memo-could-revive-alle ga tions-of-cheating-in-dc-public-schools/2013/04/12/9ddb2bb6-a35e-11e2-9 c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

Teachers in 18 District classrooms cheated on high-stakes standardized tests last year,

OK.  So I'm not sure how your link shuts me down in any way. I am against over testing students.


I had originally written "This! And furthermore:" but it got lost in editing.

I agree with you.
 
2014-03-10 03:06:32 PM  

TNel: teenytinycornteeth: Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year? how did it do on judging your creative development? Your intuitive skills? How about approaching problems from different angles? How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature? Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning. SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it. Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.

I guess it really comes down to what you want your kid learning in school. If you want your kid to learn exclusively how to follow directions and go with the mainstream, to know how multiple choice works and to master nothing but factual, rote answers like science and math provide, all this stuff is like manna from heaven. If you want a kid to be more well rounded, to be able to think about things from both sides, to solve problems creatively, to value social and psychological development as well as hard and fast data and don't forget those "stupid, useless" topics like art, music, literature, drama...then maybe not so much.

How long do you want these tests to be?  I'm sorry that Math, Science, and English are being pushed ahead of Art and Music but 99% of people will use those items way more often than the others.

So you have a problem with testing what kids know?


You should have worked harder on reading comprehension. I'll say it again.  KIDS TAKE INDIVIDUAL TESTS IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AS WELL AS BEING GRADED ON WEEKLY ASSIGNMENTS. This is how we know how they are doing.  Or do you now ONLY believe in standardized results?  I should also mention that I am not against ALL standardized testing. Like I said, as long as colleges require SAT or PSAT scores, they'll have to exist, but when a seven year old is subjected to computerized standardized tests more than three or four times a year, it takes away from other valuable things she could be learning and it does nothing to benefit the student.
 
2014-03-10 03:06:35 PM  

ikanreed: ArcadianRefugee: FTA: while my husband and I definitely thought through our decision to opt our kids out, we consulted our guts, not research.

Imagine that: go into something half-cocked and then be bewildered when things go pear shaped.

Except, no one provided an adequate explanation of what her kids were getting out of it.  Isn't that the simple threshold?  Have a good reason to do things?



Frequently these tests have everything to do with school funding and/or career advancement for higher-level administrators (way above the principal level), and litte to do with student learning.
 
2014-03-10 03:06:56 PM  

BunkyBrewman: swaniefrmreddeer: What is she teaching her kids? If it's hard, don't worry mommy will take care of you. Her reasons/excuses are irrelevant, the school her kids attend has the test, then the kids should goddamned well take the the test. No wonder we have a whole generation of precious snowflakes.

Public schools do this type of testing so they can get their piece of the public funding pie. ($$$$$$$)

Private schools do not do similar testing.

Has nothing to do with snowflakes.  This is one article you might consider taking the few minutes to read and how these types of tests don't do anything for the students, but everything for the schools they attend.


True, at least in Florida about a decade ago. I was enrolled in the IB program, which has its own end-of-year tests to determine if you had enough knowledge to receive an IB diploma. In the middle of studying for and taking the IB tests, the school wanted us to also take the AP tests with the reasoning of 'just in case you don't receive your IB diploma, you'll still receive some college credit (from the AP test scores) for your efforts'. I had no interest in taking two different sets of tests that tested knowledge in different ways (thus requiring different studying methods) and opted out. For weeks, I was harassed by the administration and several teachers because of my decision. It finally came out that the school received money for each AP test taken, regardless of whether the student passed it or not, and that the AP test scores factored into a teacher's annual evaluation.

/Earned my IB diploma, TYVM.
 
2014-03-10 03:07:08 PM  

jst3p: teenytinycornteeth: jst3p: teenytinycornteeth: TNel:

I have 3 kids and once they get old enough I have no issues with them taking the tests.  For one it's good to verify that the kids are learning what they should be learning and remembering it and not just doing it one week and then regurgitating the next.

I never understood the "Teach to the test" crap you complain about.  If the test is just a summary (like it is) of what a student should know at a certain point in their school education what's the issue?  It sounds like you have more complaints about the teachers ...

Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year?  how did it do on judging your creative development?  Your intuitive skills?  How about approaching problems from different angles?  How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature?  Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning.  SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it.  Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.


Tying funding to standardized tests also creates a toxic environment that encourages behavior like this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/memo-could-revive-alle ga tions-of-cheating-in-dc-public-schools/2013/04/12/9ddb2bb6-a35e-11e2-9 c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

Teachers in 18 District classrooms cheated on high-stakes standardized tests last year,

OK.  So I'm not sure how your link shuts me down in any way. I am against over testing students.

I had originally written "This! And furthermore:" but it got lost in editing.

I agree with you.


Ah crap.  Sorry. :)
 
2014-03-10 03:07:25 PM  
In 10th grade, the first half of the year, English class gave me the most classwork and study and homework... then the state said no standardized testing this year for that class for some reason... second half of the year was the easiest class I've *ever* had... teacher just stopped teaching us at that point and basically every day we wrote in "journals" that she never even collected or read.  All she cared about was teaching us the test, and with no test, she didn't even teach us at all...
 
2014-03-10 03:08:06 PM  

doyner: kvinesknows: PanicMan: jst3p: we're just here for one academic year while I'm a visiting professor at the University of Denver. My daughters, ages 13 and 14, are strong students.

What kind of crappy parent bounces their kids in and out of a school for a year at this age?

As an Army brat, I never went to the same school two years in a row until 11th grade (10th and 11th in same building).  I actually freaked out a bit, I had spent my whole life being the new kid, I had no skills of how to handle familiarity.

So I guess the answer is, lots of kids go through this.

and if your dad(mom?) had a choice.. would they have uprooted the family every couple years?

my guess is no.,

I was a Navy brat--moved every 3 years myself.  The fact that we were transient had no bearing on whether or not I took a damned test.  The "we're only here for a year" argument is the weakest of her reasons.

So what if they move a lot?  It's completely irrelevant.


no its not.

She is sooooo concerned about the impacts of some tests on the kids.. and their anxiety levels.  Her moving just "for fun on her own damn part" causes more anxiety.
 
2014-03-10 03:08:24 PM  

ElLoco: TNel: ElLoco: I can sum up the school's side of that entire episode with one quote from the article:

"Joyce Zurkowski, the executive director of assessment, explained to me that, in Colorado, as long as a school has 95 percent participation, a kid's opting out has no effect at all on school funding."

If people wonder what was going through the minds of the school's administration... that was it. Funding.

God forbid they want to keep money coming in.  When your boss gets upset about something do you up and leave or do you stay because of the funding?  Money drives all.

I'm neither condoning nor condemning the school's actions. People are making up a myriad of ridiculous reasons on why they tried to prevent the opt-out. I simply boiled it down to the lowest common denominator. Money. Kid's don't participate... school can lose funding.


Yeah, that's how I feel too. My feeling is that a few parents do this every year. If the school didn't convince them (harass them) to take the test than enough would opt out to fall below the 95% rate discussed in the article. What's not made clear (and it's a little strange, that the author didn't research that) is what that would mean. How much funding would the school lose? Is the school in danger of losing all if its funding? If so, the reaction by the principals make sense (Though, seems like honesty would be best there, if they said, "Well, if less than 95% of students take the test then the school would lose funding, That'd be a pretty damn compelling argument to allow a kid to take a test that doesn't really harm her in any way). There was a story in the Wall Street Journal that said that a " ... school has missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars of state aid and teacher bonuses pegged to improvement. ", because more than 8% of students didn't take the test,

Personally, I'm not clear why it such of big deal that the daughter not take the test, but I suppose once a parent says, "it's not necessary" and the school just gives a bunch of garbage reasons without any real justification, then why would the parent be any more willing to let the child take the test. Again, if the WSJ article is accurate, than I'm sure the school is fearful of a snowball effect where one kid not taking the test leads to more down the road. Which is a totally reasonable concern, but why not just tell the parents that?
 
2014-03-10 03:11:02 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: You should have worked harder on reading comprehension. I'll say it again. KIDS TAKE INDIVIDUAL TESTS IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AS WELL AS BEING GRADED ON WEEKLY ASSIGNMENTS. This is how we know how they are doing. Or do you now ONLY believe in standardized results? I should also mention that I am not against ALL standardized testing. Like I said, as long as colleges require SAT or PSAT scores, they'll have to exist, but when a seven year old is subjected to computerized standardized tests more than three or four times a year, it takes away from other valuable things she could be learning and it does nothing to benefit the student.


I look at the tests as Finals.  You get a printout grade of what they know up to that point along with the weekly tests they normally take.  I don't see any issue.  State testing starts at 3rd grade here, which would make the students atleast 9.  So the hour and half long test 4 times a year so 6 hours of testing out of 1000 hours of being in school is too much?
 
2014-03-10 03:11:16 PM  
Maybe she should delve into the reasons why her daughter has test anxiety. We did and found that our daughter had trouble with reading comprehension when under test pressure. To prep for the ACT we sent her to the local university for a summer class on speed reading. She had to learn to basically plow through the questions and begin formulating answers, referring back to the question only as needed. Of course that didn't totally cure her anxiety, but it helps her cope. That, meditation, exercise, proper nutrition and hydration, and a low dose anxiety med. Anxiety is real. But avoidance is rarely achievable in real life.
 
2014-03-10 03:11:42 PM  

JohnHall: Personally, I'm not clear why it such of big deal that the daughter not take the test,


My opinion:

It wasn't that big of a deal but once the administration pushed back a little super mom lawyer decided that compromise was weak and didn't want to back down.
 
2014-03-10 03:14:18 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: cynicalminion: teenytinycornteeth: Tax Boy: If only there were some way to overcome anxiety by practicing that thing you were anxious about....

Perhaps with test anxiety, taking practice tests might help? Like for example, taking a stupid meaningless standardized test as practice for tests that actually matter?

Mollycoddled kid is mollycoddled.

So you admit that it's stupid and meaningless but you still think it's perfectly fine to demand our kids take them multiple times a year (depending on the test)?  Good plan.

it's about being there.  the kids don't have to get anything right, they can spend half an hour trying to figure out the perfect combination to kill the scan-tron machine. they participated.  and anyone who has comparatory results from a classroom probably has grounds for a lawsuit given that their personal performance was being "graded"... and so does the rest of that class...

So what we're teaching our kids through this experience is "don't bother to question why we're doing it, just show up and be quiet and if possible, try and screw the results because the activity is JUST THAT MEANINGLESS".


no,  "hey, this one isn't going to change your gpa.  if farking around seems like a better use of your time, go for it, but if you're confident enough to know the right answer, and also figure out why the wrong answers are wrong, answer them wrong and show your work...  "
 
2014-03-10 03:15:22 PM  
Good teachers like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.

Bad teachers don't like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.
 
2014-03-10 03:17:37 PM  

letrole: Good teachers like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.

Bad teachers don't like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.


You almost got me to bite. Impressive effort, you are going to get some responses from some pissed off teachers.
 
2014-03-10 03:18:04 PM  

TNel: teenytinycornteeth: You should have worked harder on reading comprehension. I'll say it again. KIDS TAKE INDIVIDUAL TESTS IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AS WELL AS BEING GRADED ON WEEKLY ASSIGNMENTS. This is how we know how they are doing. Or do you now ONLY believe in standardized results? I should also mention that I am not against ALL standardized testing. Like I said, as long as colleges require SAT or PSAT scores, they'll have to exist, but when a seven year old is subjected to computerized standardized tests more than three or four times a year, it takes away from other valuable things she could be learning and it does nothing to benefit the student.

I look at the tests as Finals.  You get a printout grade of what they know up to that point along with the weekly tests they normally take.  I don't see any issue.  State testing starts at 3rd grade here, which would make the students atleast 9.  So the hour and half long test 4 times a year so 6 hours of testing out of 1000 hours of being in school is too much?


Don't forget teaching the test my friend! Here are the ESSENTIAL STRATEGIES to use in the classroom when preparing for standardized testing.  Practice Tests, Reading about the test, learning how to pick the best multiple choice answer.  You really think it's just an hour and half?  And all of this test prep is not learning about the material ON the test, but how to manage the format and the questions.
 
2014-03-10 03:20:31 PM  
"we currently live in Boulder, one of the most liberal, individualistic towns in America"

She is very confused.
 
2014-03-10 03:21:18 PM  
Alternative theory:  Her kid is average, and it's mommies disappointment at the solid C's that causes the anxiety, not the test taking itself.
 
2014-03-10 03:21:27 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: Don't forget teaching the test my friend! Here are the ESSENTIAL STRATEGIES to use in the classroom when preparing for standardized testing. Practice Tests, Reading about the test, learning how to pick the best multiple choice answer. You really think it's just an hour and half? And all of this test prep is not learning about the material ON the test, but how to manage the format and the questions.


So tack on a day if you want per test it's still 2% of the time in school.

I think that the people that don't want the tests are afraid that their kid won't do as well as they think they should.
 
2014-03-10 03:22:36 PM  

TNel: teenytinycornteeth: Did you ever go to school? Take a standardized test? Did it really summarize everything you learned in a year? how did it do on judging your creative development? Your intuitive skills? How about approaching problems from different angles? How many questions did it have about debate or critical thinking? Art? Music? Literature? Kids take individual tests in their classrooms, that's how we know what they're learning. SAT, PSAT? Go ahead..I'm all for it. Four or more standardized tests a year with nothing but multiple choice answers? No thanks.

I guess it really comes down to what you want your kid learning in school. If you want your kid to learn exclusively how to follow directions and go with the mainstream, to know how multiple choice works and to master nothing but factual, rote answers like science and math provide, all this stuff is like manna from heaven. If you want a kid to be more well rounded, to be able to think about things from both sides, to solve problems creatively, to value social and psychological development as well as hard and fast data and don't forget those "stupid, useless" topics like art, music, literature, drama...then maybe not so much.

How long do you want these tests to be?  I'm sorry that Math, Science, and English are being pushed ahead of Art and Music but 99% of people will use those items way more often than the others.

So you have a problem with testing what kids know?


as soon as someone "standardizes" art and music, i will add them to my personal hit list.  until then, if two perfect *cough* young *cough, cough* STRONG *coughtooold.jpgcough* students can't sit there and look pretty for a week, explain.
 
2014-03-10 03:23:50 PM  
Look, standardized testing sucks. Not just because it's a test, but because if you were ever allowed to peek behind the curtain at the questions themselves, you would be standing there like students staring blankly at a bubble sheet, scratching your head.

I was lucky enough through an acquaintance of mine to look at one of these standardized tests. They're ridiculous.

The wording of the questions is generally so atrocious, even on the factual questions, that you wonder if half of the difficulty of the question is the language obscuring what the question is actually asking. A lot of times, the wording of the question relies on a presupposed curriculum that is completely ignorant of what the technical correctness of the question and answer.

I should say that teachers are largely forbidden to ever share this information, and besides the integrity question, I half wonder if that is because people would be outraged of the crap that masquerades as legitimate tests of student knowledge.

If I had the opportunity, and children, I'd probably opt them out too. Outside of HR, written drivers tests, primary school, and secondary school, real life rarely tests you in the same manner standardized tests.

Seriously, if you had to go back and take one of these wastes of paper and money, how many of you could say you've retained enough through your school career to be able to excel?
 
2014-03-10 03:24:39 PM  

letrole: Good teachers like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.

Bad teachers don't like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.


dammit, now drew's gonna make everybody sit and fill in bubbles for a week...
 
2014-03-10 03:25:38 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: TNel: teenytinycornteeth: You should have worked harder on reading comprehension. I'll say it again. KIDS TAKE INDIVIDUAL TESTS IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AS WELL AS BEING GRADED ON WEEKLY ASSIGNMENTS. This is how we know how they are doing. Or do you now ONLY believe in standardized results? I should also mention that I am not against ALL standardized testing. Like I said, as long as colleges require SAT or PSAT scores, they'll have to exist, but when a seven year old is subjected to computerized standardized tests more than three or four times a year, it takes away from other valuable things she could be learning and it does nothing to benefit the student.

I look at the tests as Finals.  You get a printout grade of what they know up to that point along with the weekly tests they normally take.  I don't see any issue.  State testing starts at 3rd grade here, which would make the students atleast 9.  So the hour and half long test 4 times a year so 6 hours of testing out of 1000 hours of being in school is too much?

Don't forget teaching the test my friend! Here are the ESSENTIAL STRATEGIES to use in the classroom when preparing for standardized testing.  Practice Tests, Reading about the test, learning how to pick the best multiple choice answer.  You really think it's just an hour and half?  And all of this test prep is not learning about the material ON the test, but how to manage the format and the questions.



Testing in Kindgergarten - Chicago Reader

Another good read with the following interesting facts:

"When all is said and done, kindergarteners will have spent up to 60 days of class time-or a third of the school year-taking various standardized tests"

"This year CPS has added a new test to the array already faced by grammar school students: the REACH. It comes on top of the TRC, the MAP, the EXPLORE, the ISAT, and DIBELS. Two of these are teacher accountability tests. Two are diagnostic. And the others are a combination of both. One way or another, they all cover the same ground. It's good to be a standardized-test salesman."

How much knowledge do we really need to test kindergarteners on that it requires up to ten tests a year and a third of their school time?
 
2014-03-10 03:25:58 PM  
total bullshiat article
 
2014-03-10 03:27:27 PM  

TNel: teenytinycornteeth: Don't forget teaching the test my friend! Here are the ESSENTIAL STRATEGIES to use in the classroom when preparing for standardized testing. Practice Tests, Reading about the test, learning how to pick the best multiple choice answer. You really think it's just an hour and half? And all of this test prep is not learning about the material ON the test, but how to manage the format and the questions.

So tack on a day if you want per test it's still 2% of the time in school.

I think that the people that don't want the tests are afraid that their kid won't do as well as they think they should.


In 4th grade my daughter had the highest English CSAP score in the school. It was kind if funny, we were moving the following year and her school called hoping that it was a mistake.

I don't dislike them because I am afraid my kids wont do well, they both excel in school.

I dislike them because of the environment they create. You clearly don't understand the impact "teaching to the test" has. It changes the entire dynamic of the entire school year. I don't get too worked up about it because we provide a home environment that is stimulating and we focus on what we believe their school is short on. But I do think it is a toxic system and if you think that it only changes 2% of their time in school I think you underestimate the overall impact it has.
 
2014-03-10 03:29:54 PM  

OccamsWhiskers: I don't really get it. I think part of the protest is the outrage educators have about the growing movement to apply objective measures to their work.

I have a son who very possibly went to the high school she writes about (there are only 3 in town). He was never very motivated for these tests, but I told him that he could make use of them as practice for the ACT/SAT tests. Plus, the results are used to rate job performance of the staff at his school. He's had some outstanding teachers and the principal is awesome. I pointed out a few cases where they'd really worked specifically for him, and a few for the students in general. So he took them seriously and did his best.

The tests are not perfect measures of a school's performance and never will be. There aren't any perfect measures in my job either, but the days of having no objective criteria are gone from public schools with good reason.


Do you have objective criteria for your job that is mandated by legislature, then created by a separate for-profit company with no oversight from your own company (and that also makes substantial campaign contributions to the legislators who mandated it in the first place)? Then, are decisions about whether to fire you or give you a raise made at the CEO level for you in particular?

Or do you have a boss and HR that makes those decisions, based on day-to-day interactions with you personally and internal reviews, with the occasional blanket lay-off handed down from corporate whenever the budget gets trimmed because the share price drops?

The second option is how it used to be for teachers, the first option is what it has become.

Most people (teachers included) have no problem with objective evaluations, but the way we are trying to implement them is insane.
 
2014-03-10 03:30:56 PM  

namegoeshere: So she opted he kids out for no reason other than she felt like it, and what happened was... nothing? A couple of phone calls and emails? Some AWing on Mom's part?

Jeeze, Overreactionmitter, from the headline I was expecting CPS involvement or an educational neglect charge at least.


Happened in Colorado. Massachusetts would have seperate the family.
 
2014-03-10 03:33:17 PM  

KoalaFace: I got this EXACT same run around when trying to opt my child out of ISAT (illinois equivalent). The ISAT is being phased out, and is in it's final year. My son is in 5th grade and would do 5th grade testing, but he's been doing 7th and 8th grade course work all year with great success. Why the hell would I want to test him at the 5th grade level?

His school threatened everything they could. Unexcused absences, not letting him even roll next year, holding him from extra curriculars. I had to have my lawyer call the school board to stop the harassment.


Your sons results will show (most likely) that he scores in the 99th percentile, ahead of the curve for his classmates. He'll probably breeze through the test and spend the remaining time staring at the walls or doodling on the desk. So what, it won't kill him.

For kids with a debilitating, if you get them diagnosed as such (extreme anxiety disorders or performance anxiety) you can request an IEP to provide a special accommodation for the kid, such as being allowed to take the test in a separate room with a monitor. This helps to alleviate some of the pressure and anxiousness.

I don't completely agree with the validity of standardized tests because they don't accurately quantify a students ability. I was a great test taker, regularly scoring in the 99th percentile and got a 31 on my ACT. However, I had undiagnosed ADD during high school and was a total scatterbrain who regularly lost homework or waited until the last second to do a project. I scored great on the quizzes and exams but lost tons of points because I couldn't produce the required work. These tests are basically a glorified version of Trivial Pursuit.

However, without some kind of evaluation districts and states cannot determine what percent of the students are not getting a grasp of the basic tenets of their education. We need some kind of tests that will show that the kids know stuff and that they can apply it.
 
2014-03-10 03:33:50 PM  

brap: I really kind of missed what the point of this whole exercise was. It's also sad that public educators have to grovel to people that are benefiting from an education and refusing to participate in something that, fairly or not, really does affect school funding.


Really? This has to be explained?
Government says "this is optional."
Some citizen says "okay, then no."
Government: "WTF? I told you this is optional, now comply."
Citizen "No thanks, not my thing."
Government "Okay, we were kidding about the optional part. Your children are 'truant, they will have consequences.'"
Citizen "Wait just a damn minute."
People on Fark: "Snarky 'snowflake' comments, why doesn't this legal professor just shut up and do what she is told? It's not like her children are really her children. What is she trying to prove by questioning that optional program that farks you over when you opt out? Everybody should just be the same and never question authority!"

/Yeah, cranky Monday for me too. Whatevs
 
2014-03-10 03:35:07 PM  

Raoul Eaton: ikanreed: ArcadianRefugee: FTA: while my husband and I definitely thought through our decision to opt our kids out, we consulted our guts, not research.

Imagine that: go into something half-cocked and then be bewildered when things go pear shaped.

Except, no one provided an adequate explanation of what her kids were getting out of it.  Isn't that the simple threshold?  Have a good reason to do things?


Frequently these tests have everything to do with school funding and/or career advancement for higher-level administrators (way above the principal level), and litte to do with student learning.


Yeah, but the person I was responding to was making the case that the parents were being irresponsible somehow.
 
2014-03-10 03:35:13 PM  
I wonder who mommy will try to sue when her precious snowflakes find out that the "opting out" is on their permanent school records and follows them to college, limiting their options?
 
2014-03-10 03:35:38 PM  

teenytinycornteeth: teenytinycornteeth: TNel: teenytinycornteeth: You should have worked harder on reading comprehension. I'll say it again. KIDS TAKE INDIVIDUAL TESTS IN THEIR CLASSROOMS AS WELL AS BEING GRADED ON WEEKLY ASSIGNMENTS. This is how we know how they are doing. Or do you now ONLY believe in standardized results? I should also mention that I am not against ALL standardized testing. Like I said, as long as colleges require SAT or PSAT scores, they'll have to exist, but when a seven year old is subjected to computerized standardized tests more than three or four times a year, it takes away from other valuable things she could be learning and it does nothing to benefit the student.

I look at the tests as Finals.  You get a printout grade of what they know up to that point along with the weekly tests they normally take.  I don't see any issue.  State testing starts at 3rd grade here, which would make the students atleast 9.  So the hour and half long test 4 times a year so 6 hours of testing out of 1000 hours of being in school is too much?

Don't forget teaching the test my friend! Here are the ESSENTIAL STRATEGIES to use in the classroom when preparing for standardized testing.  Practice Tests, Reading about the test, learning how to pick the best multiple choice answer.  You really think it's just an hour and half?  And all of this test prep is not learning about the material ON the test, but how to manage the format and the questions.


Testing in Kindgergarten - Chicago Reader

Another good read with the following interesting facts:

"When all is said and done, kindergarteners will have spent up to 60 days of class time-or a third of the school year-taking various standardized tests"

"This year CPS has added a new test to the array already faced by grammar school students: the REACH. It comes on top of the TRC, the MAP, the EXPLORE, the ISAT, and DIBELS. Two of these are teacher accountability tests. Two are diagnostic. And the others are a combination of both. One way o ...


you know what?  you're talking kindergarten now.  put the gorram goalpoasts back in the 13-and-14 year old middle-and-high-school age students' slots.  (not that they ARE slots, just remember the original argument)

no, i don't expect kindergarteners to know what "my lai" is, how to pronounce it, or even expect them to give a shiat. they're KIDS, for fark's sake...

OTOH, with the colleges in trouble for star athletes who read at a sesame st. level?  if at all?

if you're going to say someone reads "at or above high school levels"  they should be able to prove it.
 
Displayed 50 of 295 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report