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(SacBee)   Cities increasingly look to ban e-cigarettes because reasons   (sacbee.com) divider line 255
    More: Stupid, cigarettes, American Lung Association, Los Angeles City Council, Union City, Rancho Cordova, Walnut Creek, local ordinance, electronic cigarettes  
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5986 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Mar 2014 at 1:04 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-10 01:05:55 PM  
because Jenny McCarthy?
 
2014-03-10 01:06:45 PM  
Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?
 
2014-03-10 01:08:05 PM  
But think of the e-children!
 
2014-03-10 01:09:15 PM  
The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.
 
2014-03-10 01:09:24 PM  

LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?


Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.
 
2014-03-10 01:09:34 PM  
But they're allowing people to Take Their Freedom Back™!  DAMN YOU FARTBAMA
 
2014-03-10 01:10:20 PM  

LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?


Because traditional tobacco paid you to?
 
2014-03-10 01:10:35 PM  

LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?


Because while they were initially marketed to regulators as a tool for quitting, they've become a pathway for getting kids (and others) hooked on nicotine, with many users using e-cigs and traditional tobacco interchangeably?
 
2014-03-10 01:11:52 PM  

MFAWG: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.


Waitjustagoshdarnminute.

That's not the line we were sold on public smoking bans. The line we were sold is "second hand smoke is dangerous to others."

Funny how people change their tune when smokers find an alternative that can be used in public.

What's so bad about nicotine anyways? Divorced from tobacco smoke it has a number if beneficial therapeutic uses.
 
2014-03-10 01:12:25 PM  

naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.


They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..
 
2014-03-10 01:12:48 PM  

cptjeff: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because while they were initially marketed to regulators as a tool for quitting, they've become a pathway for getting kids (and others) hooked on nicotine, with many users using e-cigs and traditional tobacco interchangeably?


Where is there evidence of this? I can see banning sale to minors, but these things don't stink, they're not carcinogenic and I'd rather the smokers used these than cigarettes.
 
2014-03-10 01:13:33 PM  
Part of the reason that e-cigs are under fire, har har, is that some of those damn kids are using them to smoke marijuana oil.
 
2014-03-10 01:14:11 PM  

cptjeff: Because while they were initially marketed to regulators as a tool for quitting, they've become a pathway for getting kids (and others) hooked on nicotine, with many users using e-cigs and traditional tobacco interchangeably?


E-cigs have never been marketed as a tool for quitting, at least in the US. The FDA strongly regulates cessation devices, thus the makers of e-cigs are careful to make no cessation claims.

They are, however, marketed as a safer, healthier alternative to tobacco. Which they are.

I'm not even going to address the stupidity of "think of the children's"
 
2014-03-10 01:14:17 PM  

LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?


Because from a distance it appears as though the person is smoking a cigarette. And the appearance of "smoke" frightens people to the core of their bones and causes them to violently cough.
 
2014-03-10 01:15:13 PM  

MFAWG: naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.

They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..


Because forcing someone who is trying to quit to stand in the middle of a bunch of people smoking is a great public policy. Really helps you reduce the number of smokers, let me tell you.
 
2014-03-10 01:15:44 PM  

dr_blasto: cptjeff: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because while they were initially marketed to regulators as a tool for quitting, they've become a pathway for getting kids (and others) hooked on nicotine, with many users using e-cigs and traditional tobacco interchangeably?

Where is there evidence of this? I can see banning sale to minors, but these things don't stink, they're not carcinogenic and I'd rather the smokers used these than cigarettes.


We don't actually know that they're notcarcinogenic, because nobody has done any research.

So we're back to quacks like a duck.
 
2014-03-10 01:15:46 PM  
because they cant tax it enough.
 
2014-03-10 01:17:00 PM  

Elegy: MFAWG: naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.

They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..

Because forcing someone who is trying to quit to stand in the middle of a bunch of people smoking is a great public policy. Really helps you reduce the number of smokers, let me tell you.


So farking quit already.

Is that hard to grasp?
 
2014-03-10 01:17:07 PM  

MFAWG: We don't actually know that they're notcarcinogenic, because nobody has done any research.


Wrong. But as it's you, I'm not surprised; you're always wrong.
 
2014-03-10 01:17:50 PM  

MFAWG: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.


That's why nicotine patches were outlawed.
 
2014-03-10 01:17:55 PM  

iheartscotch: Part of the reason that e-cigs are under fire, har har, is that some of those damn kids are using them to smoke marijuana oil.


kids?
 
2014-03-10 01:18:02 PM  
Can someone who remembers how smoky public places were prior to 1964 please elaborate on your experience? Perhaps it could help us young'ns make sense of this preemptive-ish strike on eCigs.

/If it's not technically secondhand smoke, can we call it "vaper vapor"?
 
2014-03-10 01:20:22 PM  

MFAWG: naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.

They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..


Thats not the point...nobody cares if you chew Nicorrette gum in public.  Nobody cares if you wear the patch in public.


BUT, vapor  looks like smoke.  I've had numerous people wave their hands around, scrunch up their face and even cough before they realize that my vapor smells like caramel.
 
2014-03-10 01:21:07 PM  
I'm not informed enough. I'm hearing two conflicting arguments.

Either second hand e-smoke is harmful or it isn't.

If it is I'm for restricting its use in public areas.

If it isn't harmful, leave it for private establishments to decide.


Some people say its harmful, some say it isn't. I say I don't know until I see evidence one way or another.
 
2014-03-10 01:21:53 PM  
Busybodies want to control other people's lives?

Color me shocked!

/not really
 
2014-03-10 01:22:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: MFAWG: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.

That's why nicotine patches were outlawed.


The impact of a patch is solely on the user. There's not much difference between second hand water vapor and smoke.

Bear in mind I smoke and I think the anti-smoking Nazis are way out of control, but I think there is a valid point here.
 
2014-03-10 01:22:23 PM  
LessO2


Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because liberals are afraid of things that look scary. Just be glad the e-cig's don't have shoulder things that go up.
 
2014-03-10 01:23:27 PM  

CleanAndPure: I'm not informed enough. I'm hearing two conflicting arguments.

Either second hand e-smoke is harmful or it isn't.

If it is I'm for restricting its use in public areas.

If it isn't harmful, leave it for private establishments to decide.

Some people say its harmful, some say it isn't. I say I don't know until I see evidence one way or another.


Saturated fats are also harmful, which is why we're considering banning steak.
 
2014-03-10 01:24:39 PM  

Apatheist: Can someone who remembers how smoky public places were prior to 1964 please elaborate on your experience? Perhaps it could help us young'ns make sense of this preemptive-ish strike on eCigs.

/If it's not technically secondhand smoke, can we call it "vaper vapor"?


Mercer Street Arena in Seattle looked like a fog bank by the 3d period of Totems games, and I still miss cigar smoke at the ball game.
 
2014-03-10 01:25:07 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: CleanAndPure: I'm not informed enough. I'm hearing two conflicting arguments.

Either second hand e-smoke is harmful or it isn't.

If it is I'm for restricting its use in public areas.

If it isn't harmful, leave it for private establishments to decide.

Some people say its harmful, some say it isn't. I say I don't know until I see evidence one way or another.

Saturated fats are also harmful, which is why we're considering banning steak.


If you eat saturated fats it doesn't negatively impact my health.

That's a big difference and why I said second hand smoke.

If only the smoker is harmed I see no problem them smoking in public places.
 
2014-03-10 01:25:09 PM  

MFAWG: Marcus Aurelius: MFAWG: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.

That's why nicotine patches were outlawed.

The impact of a patch is solely on the user. There's not much difference between second hand water vapor and smoke.

Bear in mind I smoke and I think the anti-smoking Nazis are way out of control, but I think there is a valid point here.


I quit smoking back in '98.  I can no longer stand the stuff.  But I hate anti-smoking Nazis even more.
 
2014-03-10 01:25:27 PM  
My workplace banned e-cig use in the office, which I ignored. It isn't smoking, it isn't dangerous, and they have no right to ban it.

/ Considering taking a job where I work from home.
// Can't stand ignorant people forcing their views on people.
 
2014-03-10 01:26:10 PM  
1) Smoking is a disgusting, unhealthy habit that I do not want to be anywhere near.
2) These e-cigarettes make one look like a complete and total douche. I would think they would be self-regulating that people wouldn't want to be seen using them in public, looking as douchy as they do.

That said, and I don't consider them as anything but fact, we still have the fact that people should be allowed to live their own lives. You want to light up in a smoking section in a restaurant or anywhere in a bar, have at it. I choose not to be in those establishments because of it, but that is my decision. And I have to respect the bar or restaurant owners choice as to whether he/she wants smoking in their establishments. It is not for me to decide, and it is NOT for the government to decide. As for the e-cigarettes, if you don't mind looking like a douchebag I don't care. I may snicker, but enjoy yourself.

Eventually pot will be considered a gateway drug to tobacco. What do we do then? Divide by zero?
 
2014-03-10 01:26:26 PM  

dr_blasto: cptjeff: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because while they were initially marketed to regulators as a tool for quitting, they've become a pathway for getting kids (and others) hooked on nicotine, with many users using e-cigs and traditional tobacco interchangeably?

Where is there evidence of this? I can see banning sale to minors, but these things don't stink, they're not carcinogenic and I'd rather the smokers used these than cigarettes.


FTFA: "...studies have shown that the vapor contains carcinogens and toxic chemicals, as well as nicotine, an element of tobacco that is highly addictive, said Rancho Cordova City Attorney Adam Lindgren."

Studies! Studies provide evidence!

And these studies were most likely conducted by top men.  TOP. MEN.

At least I assume so. I'm convinced; why aren't you?
 
2014-03-10 01:27:30 PM  
Had an e-cigarette and had to work at making vapor appear.
I think e-smokers do it just to piss off other people.
 
2014-03-10 01:28:17 PM  
An e-cigarette is a drug delivery system. Too bad the drugs don't work. Apart from a placebo effect and a bit of mitigation of a few maladies (was Parkinson's Disease one?), smoking doesn't seem to be good for anything. Perhaps it will be medicalized like marijuana some day, but personally I would not suffer greatly if it were banned outright, although that would do no one any good either.

Think about it. A drug delivery system. The tobacco industry has taken away everything from the tobacco (including the tobacco) and left nothing but the nicotine addiction.

They are drug dealers now. Just like the meth addict mongers.

They may continue to deny that they have worked hard to make their drug more addictive (as has the marijuana breeders) and they may continue to live in complete denial over the health harm (as do the marijuana pushers), and they may continue to deny the science long after the hypotheses became solid facts for any reasonable and objective observer.

But now they have turned their product into a pure addiction like heroine, which they push for pure profit, without any grounds for supposed benefits, unlike marijuana, which probably does help people deal with pain and even dying.

BURN THEM! BURN THEM AT THE STAKE! Whoops, sorry, came directly from a religious post.

What possible harm can come from not smoking? Or not allowing the tobacco industry to continue addicting people to their recreational drug the way that slavers were forced to stop slaving but the slaves were grandfathered and thus not freed except in death?

Speaking of death, I hear that thoughts of mortality are great tools to make people anxious and sell them tobacco. Maybe restrictions on advertising don't work. Maybe there should be no advertising at all, no packaging, no product and no farking industry full of people who are able to gloss over the fact that they are selling stink, fire, ruined textiles, burn marks, misery, death and disease for the sack of the enormous profits and that alone.

Ban away. Just don't repeat the errors of prohibition. Another thing that didn't work and still doesn't.
 
2014-03-10 01:29:01 PM  

CleanAndPure: I'm not informed enough. I'm hearing two conflicting arguments.

Either second hand e-smoke is harmful or it isn't.

If it is I'm for restricting its use in public areas.

If it isn't harmful, leave it for private establishments to decide.


Some people say its harmful, some say it isn't. I say I don't know until I see evidence one way or another.


Infrom yourself here

MFAWG: There's not much difference between second hand water vapor and smoke.


I'm seriously starting to think that this ID is a performance art piece. How else could one person be so consistently wrong about EVERYTHING?

This is a stupid statement that is bad and you should feel bad. There is a huge difference between vapor and smoke. You can't be serious - tell me this is performance art.
 
2014-03-10 01:29:19 PM  

Elegy: MFAWG: LessO2: Okay, serious question here....and I have never been a smoker and can't stand the smell of real cigarette smoke....why the rush to ban these things like regular cigarettes?

Because a nicotine delivery system is a nicotine delivery system. If it walks like a duck, etc.

Waitjustagoshdarnminute.

That's not the line we were sold on public smoking bans. The line we were sold is "second hand smoke is dangerous to others."

Funny how people change their tune when smokers find an alternative that can be used in public.

What's so bad about nicotine anyways? Divorced from tobacco smoke it has a number if beneficial therapeutic uses.


Because beautiful people become ugly, sond like monsters, and die.

Like that dead cancer lady with the voicebox.
 
2014-03-10 01:30:35 PM  

MFAWG: naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.

They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..


so ban them ... (depending on where you are its a defacto ban)
 
2014-03-10 01:32:54 PM  

Elegy: CleanAndPure: I'm not informed enough. I'm hearing two conflicting arguments.

Either second hand e-smoke is harmful or it isn't.

If it is I'm for restricting its use in public areas.

If it isn't harmful, leave it for private establishments to decide.


Some people say its harmful, some say it isn't. I say I don't know until I see evidence one way or another.

Infrom yourself here

MFAWG: There's not much difference between second hand water vapor and smoke.

I'm seriously starting to think that this ID is a performance art piece. How else could one person be so consistently wrong about EVERYTHING?

This is a stupid statement that is bad and you should feel bad. There is a huge difference between vapor and smoke. You can't be serious - tell me this is performance art.


We're back to 'you can go fark yourself'.

Now go update your profile, you farking douchebag.
 
2014-03-10 01:33:54 PM  
"BUT, vapor  looks like smoke.  I've had numerous people wave their hands around, scrunch up their face and even cough before they realize that my vapor smells like caramel."

This. When I'm smoking a REAL cigarette way out past the gate and behind some trash cans minding my own business and some asshole starts with the waving and coughing from 30 yards away I tell them they should get that cough looked at and I scramble away from them like they have some sort of contagious disease.

/enough with the wheezing and flailing about
//how pristine do you think that LA air is, sweet-cheeks?
///Go fark yourself
 
2014-03-10 01:33:58 PM  
 
2014-03-10 01:34:38 PM  

brantgoose: An e-cigarette is a drug delivery system. Too bad the drugs don't work


That depends entirely on what you put into your e-cigarette.
 
2014-03-10 01:36:55 PM  

cig-mkr: Had an e-cigarette and had to work at making vapor appear.
I think e-smokers do it just to piss off other people.


Some e-cigarettes (and liquids) produce far more vapor than others.
 
2014-03-10 01:38:39 PM  
I vape.  I got my gear on a friday and some 24mg nic juice and made myself a little crispy from overdoing it....on saturday I had new juice coming - it was 18mg stuff.

In the following week I had 12mg juice arrive at the house and since then Ive used 12mg stuff or lower....and not had a cig since that last 1 on the saturday I was going to the post office to pick up my juice.

For me, e-cigs work very well and I dont want to go back to smoking since its so damn destructive.  I feel a lot better now, and I'm happy I quit.

Legislators that want to ban or tax e-cigs heavily are dumb, they are addicted to the tax that tobacco generates IMO.

I didnt use off the shelf crappy e-cig products either, I used some nice beginner gear that really did work.

I learned how to rebuild my wick/coils in the week after I started and that provides a much better amount of vapor and flavor versus the stock silica wick/coils in my Kanger tanks.

I have piled up some Kanthal wire to make coils from...and have fixins' to make my own juice too.  Let them tax the shiat out of folks or ban it entirely, I wont pay any government a tax on any of that.  I have the gear and the knowledge to get along just fine..thank you.

For anyone curious, 101vape.com has a nice price on the Innokin MVP 2.0 regulated device, it works nicely and the charge in the battery will run for a day or two, depending on how often you use it.  I use Kanger Mini Protank IIs and rebuild them with 30gauge kanthal, 9 wraps around a 2mm screwdriver which gives me around a 1.8 to 2.2ohm coil, and CVS sterile cotton balls for wick.

The MVP2 was $42 shipped to me door and its cheaper than a  lot of shiatty brick and mortar stores prices.  B&Ms will sometimes just rip off a new user and thats not right.

I also suggest to not get crappy juice (im looking at you, Mt. Baker).  Do try juices in sample packs or small bottles and find an e-juice or three you feel you can vape and you will throw away the cigs too.

In the end it doesnt matter how manty cigs you smoke..it only matters how many you dont.  And please realize that you will not get immediate nicotine in your system from an e-cig, it takes about 10-15 minutes for it to be absorbed into your bloodstream so when you get cravings....just vape your head off and be patient.

A 24mg juice is roughly like using unfiltered cigarettes (Camel no filter, Drum rolling tobacco etc)
18mg juice is roughly like Marlboro Red, Camel Filter etc
12mg juice is roughly like Marlboro Light, Camel Lights etc
6mg juice is roughly like an ultra light cigarette

Some folks use 3mg juice or Zero nic, too.  You dont have to use nicotine.

more info on:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/

http://vapers.tv/  (there are different broadcasts here and often times folks are chosen at random to be given free juice or devices, even)

the lowest prices in North America on gear:

http://101vape.com/

how to rebuild a Kanger mini protank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrvwOf13U-s

 Lastly: the guys who will fight for everyones right to vape
http://www.vapingmilitia.com/index.html

Im an elf...and I vape.  Fark big tobacco and fark excessive tax on vaping.
 
2014-03-10 01:38:42 PM  

Relatively Obscure: cig-mkr: Had an e-cigarette and had to work at making vapor appear.
I think e-smokers do it just to piss off other people.

Some e-cigarettes (and liquids) produce far more vapor than others.


He probably went and put nicotine into his.  Nicotine doesn't give off much smoke.  Which is the whole point of the exercise.

Did you get dizzy and nearly fall down?  Yes?  Then the nicotine is working.
 
2014-03-10 01:39:52 PM  

kendejo42: MFAWG: naptapper: The single most effective stop smoking aid, and they ban it. Sigh.

They're not looking to ban them, just make you use them in the same places us regular smokers have to go..

Thats not the point...nobody cares if you chew Nicorrette gum in public.  Nobody cares if you wear the patch in public.


BUT, vapor  looks like smoke.  I've had numerous people wave their hands around, scrunch up their face and even cough before they realize that my vapor smells like caramel.



That's my only beef with vape pens. The SMELL. Can you imagine an enclosed space where 3-4 people are puffing away on those things and they all have different scents? I don't mind the glycol vapor - it's farking vapor - but what does bug me is the scent/flavor bullshiat.
 
2014-03-10 01:39:52 PM  
All you motherfarkers, shut fark up about farking vapors before I stab you in the farking face.
 
2014-03-10 01:40:47 PM  
FTA: "We're really concerned that we just don't know what is in them," Freitas said.


That's because you haven't bothered to farking look. The claim that studies show nicotine in the secondhand water vapor conveniently leaves out that it's less than what one finds in the average tomato. I'm just waiting for the safety claims to get truly absurd. "Second hand water vapor presents a drowning hazard to everybody within a quarter mile of the user."
 
2014-03-10 01:40:52 PM  

Elegy: I'm not even going to address the stupidity of "think of the children's"


Because we've never regulated tobacco marketing, sales, or even product formulation because the tobacco industry was deliberately targeting children before, even though they claimed they weren't? Why should e-cigs not be held to a similar standard? Who do you think those candy and fruit flavored e-cig fluids are being marketed to, anyway?

They're trying to hook children on nicotine again. Don't be naive about it.
 
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