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(Salon)   We're fat because our intestines are too clean   (salon.com) divider line 91
    More: Amusing, Americans, inflammatory bowel diseases, hygiene hypothesis, laundry detergents, hay fevers, leptin, earthworms, clinical nutrition  
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4916 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Mar 2014 at 7:58 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 05:19:15 PM
There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.
 
2014-03-09 05:33:43 PM

Mentat: There's also some links to autism and the gut.


I'm expecting to see a headline "Scientists find something not linked to autism"
 
2014-03-09 05:45:29 PM
So should we start lining up for fecal transplants, then?
 
2014-03-09 05:45:54 PM
Um, no.  I have been seeing an ad for Colon Flow on TV all day, and it assures me we all have pounds of poo in there, hanging around in all the nooks and crannies, toxifying us something fierce.

/Colon Flow.  No shiat.
//well...
///30,000 bowls
 
2014-03-09 06:03:25 PM
Yeah, no, I'm going with this reason why we're fat:

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-03-09 06:50:38 PM

Dallymo: Um, no.  I have been seeing an ad for Colon Flow on TV all day, and it assures me we all have pounds of poo in there, hanging around in all the nooks and crannies, toxifying us something fierce.

/Colon Flow.  No shiat.
//well...
///30,000 bowls


I love that commercial.  We aren't fat, we're just full of shiat!
 
2014-03-09 06:56:43 PM

Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.


I don't know anything about autism but as far as being fat, stop eating so much and move around a little bit. It's simple physics.
 
2014-03-09 07:05:31 PM

gnosis301: So should we start lining up for fecal transplants, then?


I just eat my cat's poop every now and again.
 
2014-03-09 07:36:26 PM

fusillade762: I just eat my cat's poop every now and again.


I did not know that dogs had sufficient dexterity to post comments on the internets. Good boy! But please avoid the Politics tab lest you lose your faith in humanity.
 
2014-03-09 08:03:15 PM
These pipes.....ARE CLEAN-EAN-EAN-EAN!
 
2014-03-09 08:03:29 PM
Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.
 
2014-03-09 08:05:21 PM

brap: These pipes.....ARE CLEAN-EAN-EAN-EAN!




img242.imageshack.us
 
2014-03-09 08:11:02 PM

Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.


Also research going on about the impact of antibiotics on the gut microbiome too.  We know loading up animals with it makes them bigger.  Now of course we don't load up that much on humans, but for the really younggins, too many rounds of pills may have an impact for life, though one that could be reversible in the future with new kinds of treatment.
 
2014-03-09 08:12:41 PM

Mugato: Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.

I don't know anything about autism but as far as being fat, stop eating so much and move around a little bit. It's simple physics.


But see, that's just it.  If the microbiome of an obese person more efficiently metabolizes food, then they could eat less and still not lose weight.  It's not just about how much you eat but what you eat due to the fact that the microbiome adjusts to your diet.
 
2014-03-09 08:21:57 PM

Mentat: Mugato: Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.

I don't know anything about autism but as far as being fat, stop eating so much and move around a little bit. It's simple physics.

But see, that's just it.  If the microbiome of an obese person more efficiently metabolizes food, then they could eat less and still not lose weight.  It's not just about how much you eat but what you eat due to the fact that the microbiome adjusts to your diet.


But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?
 
2014-03-09 08:22:57 PM

ReapTheChaos: Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.


Yeah, we don't need no fancy talk from a buncha poindexters with their big-city book learnin' and high-falootin' degrees!
 
2014-03-09 08:26:51 PM
If that last fart was any indicator, too clean is not a problem
 
2014-03-09 08:30:21 PM
Mugato

But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?

Are you asking if metabolism can greatly affect how many calories are burnt by the body?  If so, then the answer is yes.  At the very least, a person who has more muscle mass than another burns more calories simply by virtue of their muscles requiring more energy to exist.
 
2014-03-09 08:34:37 PM

Mugato: Mentat: Mugato: Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.

I don't know anything about autism but as far as being fat, stop eating so much and move around a little bit. It's simple physics.

But see, that's just it.  If the microbiome of an obese person more efficiently metabolizes food, then they could eat less and still not lose weight.  It's not just about how much you eat but what you eat due to the fact that the microbiome adjusts to your diet.

But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?


What do you think metabolism is?  It's all physics.  If a microbiome is more efficient at metabolizing food, it extracts more energy from the food which is ultimately stored as fat.  So even if an obese person eats less than a lean person, they may actually be extracting and storing more energy from that food, thus negating the benefit of eating less.
 
2014-03-09 08:36:49 PM

Mugato: But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?


If it changes how many calories your body will burn, especially while sitting on your ass and doing nothing and sleeping (even fit people spend most of their time doing these two things), it changes what kind of diet and exercise it's going to take to change weight.

Though I will note I don't think this explains why the obesity rate went up so much in the past few decades, but it's a small contributing factor, and I think the potential for future treatments that make maintaining a healthy weight easier is a good thing along with all the other potential maladies that might be helped by gaining a good balance of gut bacteria.
 
2014-03-09 08:41:58 PM
A few years ago I posted to Usenet about how disgusted I was that my puppy insisted on eating shiat, not just ferret & cat poo but other dogs' shiat outside, and that unless I muzzled him or policed every step he took before he took it it was impossible to keep him from scarfing up some. (NB: very early I ruled out fishing it from his mouth with my fingers, as even covered in feces his teeth were sharp.)

So a guy replied that the puppy was just adjusting his gut flora in a common-sense natural way and I should just look away if it bothered me, and the ex pointed out he doesn't get sick from it, goes to the vet regularly, and gets a dewormer every month anyway, so I gave up the idea of muzzling the mutt. (I still won't let him lick my face for at least an hour afterward.)

OTOH what gives him diarrhea is feeding him stuff like a piece of pretzel or hot dog. Sartre was right: life is just so fundamentally senseless. No wonder you people have essentially elected Ronald Reagan 9 times.
 
2014-03-09 08:43:11 PM

Mentat: So even if an obese person eats less than a lean person, they may actually be extracting and storing more energy from that food, thus negating the benefit of eating less.


So they need to continue decreasing calorie intake until they find the magic amount of food that works?
 
2014-03-09 08:54:22 PM

Mugato: Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.

I don't know anything about autism but as far as being fat, stop eating so much and move around a little bit. It's simple physics.


But one of the variables in the "calories in" part of the thermodynamics equation is how many calories are absorbed into your body.  If your gut bacteria are able to absorb twice the amount of calories as mine, I'll be able to eat twice the amount of food as you.

/or something like that
//not fat
 
2014-03-09 08:54:57 PM

ReverendJasen: Mentat: So even if an obese person eats less than a lean person, they may actually be extracting and storing more energy from that food, thus negating the benefit of eating less.

So they need to continue decreasing calorie intake until they find the magic amount of food that works?


Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

/need a toad or small dwarf living in your stomach
 
2014-03-09 08:56:57 PM

ReverendJasen: Mentat: So even if an obese person eats less than a lean person, they may actually be extracting and storing more energy from that food, thus negating the benefit of eating less.

So they need to continue decreasing calorie intake until they find the magic amount of food that works?


No, but they might need to work with a nutritionist to find a diet that shifts their metabolome towards a less efficient metabolism which would naturally decrease their caloric uptake.
 
2014-03-09 08:58:06 PM

fusillade762: gnosis301: So should we start lining up for fecal transplants, then?

I just eat my cat's poop every now and again.


It works better if you stuff it up your bum.

Like most things in life.
 
2014-03-09 09:01:21 PM
This is a bomb calorimeter:
img.fark.net

This is a human:
img.fark.net

Notice that they're not the same thing?

"Calories in, calories out" is a gross oversimplification of what happens in the human body when we eat food. Yes, eating less is a good step in combating obesity but there are many other factors. If you can control things like a person's appetite, how much food their body absorbs, or preventing them from falling into starvation mode/low energy, you can make it much easier to maintain a healthy weight.
 
2014-03-09 09:02:11 PM

Dallymo: Um, no.  I have been seeing an ad for Colon Flow on TV all day, and it assures me we all have pounds of poo in there, hanging around in all the nooks and crannies, toxifying us something fierce.

/Colon Flow.  No shiat.
//well...
///30,000 bowls


1978 called, they want their joke back.
 
2014-03-09 09:02:14 PM

Mugato: But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?


It's not changing the laws of physics. If you expend more energy than you take in, you have to lose weight, but it doesn't necessarily follow that if you take in more energy than you expend you have to gain weight.

I can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight, even when I'm trying to. Other people, eating the same diet and exercising the same amount, might gain a significant amount of weight. The energy (calories) isn't destroyed when it goes into my body, it just goes into other things besides body mass (like poo). And we are finding out that the reason some people put on weight and some don't has a lot to do with gut bacteria.
 
2014-03-09 09:02:47 PM

12349876: Mentat: There's something to that.  We're learning a lot about the gut microbiome.  There's evidence that reason some people are obese is because their gut bacteria are too efficient at metabolism.  There's also some links to autism and the gut.  Very exciting field of research right now.

Also research going on about the impact of antibiotics on the gut microbiome too.  We know loading up animals with it makes them bigger.  Now of course we don't load up that much on humans, but for the really younggins, too many rounds of pills may have an impact for life, though one that could be reversible in the future with new kinds of treatment.



My sister got pretty bad food poisoning about three years ago, and her body hasn't been the same since.  Some of the foods she used to eat she can't eat anymore.  She still has stomach and poop problems, problems she didn't have before.  She's always been very active---black belt in karate, runs marathons, is an ER nurse---but has mysteriously gained about 20 pounds since.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something to this gut bug hypothesis.
 
2014-03-09 09:04:28 PM

Mister Peejay: /need a toad or small dwarf living in your stomach


I hear tapeworms work wonders.
 
2014-03-09 09:07:40 PM
FizixJunkee:  Some of the foods she used to eat she can't eat anymore.  She still has stomach and poop problems, problems she didn't have before.  She's always been very active---black belt in karate, runs marathons, is an ER nurse---but has mysteriously gained about 20 pounds since.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something to this gut bug hypothesis.


I realize that she's probably tried it, but whenever I get any kind of "opens up the sluice" issue, I eat lots of cultured foods afterwards, mainly yogurt but also cheeses.  Which will be hard to reconcile in the future given that I cut my dairy intake by about 2/3rd recently and feel great for it.
 
2014-03-09 09:13:02 PM

12349876: Though I will note I don't think this explains why the obesity rate went up so much in the past few decades, but it's a small contributing factor, and I think the potential for future treatments that make maintaining a healthy weight easier is a good thing along with all the other potential maladies that might be helped by gaining a good balance of gut bacteria.


Quoting a Newsweek article:

"For many years scientific studies have illustrated the connection between weight gain and antibiotics, due to their bacteria-killing action found that Navy recruits given daily doses of penicillin to prevent strep infections gained 4.8 pounds over seven weeks compared with the 2.7 pounds gained by participants given a placebo.

"More recently, researchers have focused their attention on the possibility that antibiotics could be making children fat. New Zealand researchers conducting a large international survey found that boys treated with antibiotics during their first year of life reported higher body mass index (BMI) between the ages of 5 and 8 than boys who had not been similarly treated.

"A smaller Danish study found the use of antibiotics in infancy increased the risk of higher-than-average weight gains in childhood. Meanwhile, New York University researchers discovered that when infants were given antibiotics before the age of 6 months, they were 22 percent more likely to be overweight at 38 months than infants who had not been exposed to the drugs. Despite the relatively small weight gains in these children, the findings are significant.
 
2014-03-09 09:15:15 PM

ReapTheChaos: Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.


I'm so glad we have Dr. ReapTheChaos to set these namby pamby "scien-tists" straight and discredit their "re-search"
 
2014-03-09 09:17:02 PM

EngineerAU: This is a bomb calorimeter:


This is a human:


Notice that they're not the same thing?

"Calories in, calories out" is a gross oversimplification of what happens in the human body when we eat food. Yes, eating less is a good step in combating obesity but there are many other factors. If you can control things like a person's appetite, how much food their body absorbs, or preventing them from falling into starvation mode/low energy, you can make it much easier to maintain a healthy weight.


I'd measure her enthalpy of formation, iykwimaityd.
 
2014-03-09 09:25:03 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Mugato: But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?

It's not changing the laws of physics. If you expend more energy than you take in, you have to lose weight, but it doesn't necessarily follow that if you take in more energy than you expend you have to gain weight.

I can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight, even when I'm trying to. Other people, eating the same diet and exercising the same amount, might gain a significant amount of weight. The energy (calories) isn't destroyed when it goes into my body, it just goes into other things besides body mass (like poo). And we are finding out that the reason some people put on weight and some don't has a lot to do with gut bacteria.


Lol, no.
 
2014-03-09 09:27:15 PM

RowYourBoat: Lol, no.


Sorry, I meant "one of the"
 
2014-03-09 09:54:15 PM

xenophon10k: ReapTheChaos: Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.

I'm so glad we have Dr. ReapTheChaos to set these namby pamby "scien-tists" straight and discredit their "re-search"


The scientists showed nothing to discredit calories in / calories out. And TFA is a light consumery gloss of various things; it's hardly to be taken seriously.

Fat people are still desperate for Yet Another Excuse to keep overeating. Bloggers and media and Fark Fat Apologists are eager to provide. It's metabolism, it's hormones, it's mysterious diseases, now it's that your poor widdle bacteria colony is too efficient. Farker please.

Stop comparing my metabolism and gut bacteria and shoe size to yours. It's a false distraction. If YOU take in fewer calories than YOU were before, then you will lose some body weight.
 
2014-03-09 10:17:30 PM

Far Cough: xenophon10k: ReapTheChaos: Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.

I'm so glad we have Dr. ReapTheChaos to set these namby pamby "scien-tists" straight and discredit their "re-search"

The scientists showed nothing to discredit calories in / calories out. And TFA is a light consumery gloss of various things; it's hardly to be taken seriously.

Fat people are still desperate for Yet Another Excuse to keep overeating. Bloggers and media and Fark Fat Apologists are eager to provide. It's metabolism, it's hormones, it's mysterious diseases, now it's that your poor widdle bacteria colony is too efficient. Farker please.

Stop comparing my metabolism and gut bacteria and shoe size to yours. It's a false distraction. If YOU take in fewer calories than YOU were before, then you will lose some body weight.


FEEL THE BURN!
 
2014-03-09 10:25:31 PM
Maybe people should focus on getting reasonable exercise regardless of other factors that make them fat.  Even if you don't get thinner, wouldn't it be great if you could walk up a flight of stairs without getting winded?  Lift your child off the ground to hug him?  Outrun a dangerous situation?
 
2014-03-09 10:35:46 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Mugato: But does that factor really affect weight that much? A difference in metabolism can really change the laws of physics?

It's not changing the laws of physics. If you expend more energy than you take in, you have to lose weight, but it doesn't necessarily follow that if you take in more energy than you expend you have to gain weight.

I can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight, even when I'm trying to. Other people, eating the same diet and exercising the same amount, might gain a significant amount of weight. The energy (calories) isn't destroyed when it goes into my body, it just goes into other things besides body mass (like poo). And we are finding out that the reason some people put on weight and some don't has a lot to do with gut bacteria.


Has anyone ever found a fat person on subsisting on 1500 calories a day? Maybe something like this could make a 2-3% difference.
 
2014-03-09 10:37:39 PM
Good luck outrunning  endocrine disrupting pesticides in common household products and foods Coach Derp.
 
2014-03-09 10:38:06 PM

serial_crusher: Maybe people should focus on getting reasonable exercise regardless of other factors that make them fat.  Even if you don't get thinner, wouldn't it be great if you could walk up a flight of stairs without getting winded?  Lift your child off the ground to hug him?  Outrun a dangerous situation?


People are confusing understanding the processes with making excuses.  Some people are content to see the world as a black box where something goes in and something comes out.  Others want to know what's happening inside the box, and it turns out to be extremely complex and interesting.  Some of the research has immediate practical health implications, other results are interesting in a "so that's what's going on" way.  For instance, it's been shown that taking antibiotics affects your entire microbiome, even that of your skin.  Considering the role of your microbiome in limiting opportunistic infections, that could turn out to be pretty important.  Another interesting result I've seen involves bacterial colonization of newborns, which shows the obvious in retrospect result of natural birth newborns being colonized by the mother's vaginal bacteria while C-section newborns are colonized by her skin bacteria.  Is that important?  Hard to say as the baby's microbiome eventually stabilizes no matter how it's born, but in those first few days it could turn out to be important.  This is the kind of stuff we're learning and we still don't know what's trivial but interesting and what will result in practical applications.
 
2014-03-09 10:40:47 PM

fusillade762: gnosis301: So should we start lining up for fecal transplants, then?

I just eat my cat's poop every now and again.


that ought to do it. sounds like a great plan.
 
2014-03-09 10:55:19 PM

Mentat: Far Cough: xenophon10k: ReapTheChaos: Sorry but no. We're fat because we lead sedentary lifestyles and we eat more than our bodies burn in energy.

It's not rocket science people, stop trying to make excuses for it.

I'm so glad we have Dr. ReapTheChaos to set these namby pamby "scien-tists" straight and discredit their "re-search"

The scientists showed nothing to discredit calories in / calories out. And TFA is a light consumery gloss of various things; it's hardly to be taken seriously.

Fat people are still desperate for Yet Another Excuse to keep overeating. Bloggers and media and Fark Fat Apologists are eager to provide. It's metabolism, it's hormones, it's mysterious diseases, now it's that your poor widdle bacteria colony is too efficient. Farker please.

Stop comparing my metabolism and gut bacteria and shoe size to yours. It's a false distraction. If YOU take in fewer calories than YOU were before, then you will lose some body weight.

FEEL THE BURN!


RIDE THE SNAKE
 
2014-03-09 11:14:52 PM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight, even when I'm trying to.


That's how I was till my 30s: in my teens it'd take months of institutional food and enforced inactivity to get up to low-normal weight, and even in my 20s I stayed thin with very little trouble. Then at 29 I went on Loxitane & Zoloft and within two years my weight had stabilized at a normal 135, 10 or 15 pounds what I used to weigh. Then at age 36 I had a rough Supersizing winter, then at 37 I quit smoking, then at 42 I took to drink: now I'm 51 and for the past 5 years it's felt like more trouble than it's worth to try to get under 170#, that it's enough to keep from gaining more.

Maybe if some lovely Farkettes provided incentive...EIP!
 
2014-03-09 11:20:58 PM

Far Cough: The scientists showed nothing to discredit calories in / calories out.


You're right, they don't.  But it shows that getting calories out is a lot easier for some people than other people.  And for a FEW, it may be to the point that the diet and exercise combination is very hard to sustain, especially if there's a physical disability.  Helping these people out and even helping out the lazy slobs will be a positive for the health of society, just like we fortify milk and have Vitamin D supplements for many people who could get enough sunlight without a lot of sacrifice.
 
2014-03-09 11:21:22 PM

fusillade762: gnosis301: So should we start lining up for fecal transplants, then?

I just eat my cat's poop every meow and again.



/srysly
 
2014-03-09 11:26:54 PM

CruJones: Has anyone ever found a fat person on subsisting on 1500 calories a day? Maybe something like this could make a 2-3% difference.


You can look on pubmed, there's a lot of research on this that's showing it's significant.
 
2014-03-09 11:29:09 PM

serial_crusher: Maybe people should focus on getting reasonable exercise regardless of other factors that make them fat.  Even if you don't get thinner, wouldn't it be great if you could walk up a flight of stairs without getting winded?  Lift your child off the ground to hug him?  Outrun a dangerous situation?


As someone who has lost close to 140 lbs over the past 14 months, I feel like I have some authority to comment - the vast bulk (heh) of my weight loss has come from dietary changes. The half hour daily walks I did probably had minimal effect. Maybe even only a psychological effect of just keeping me in the headspace of weight loss. I now do more intense cardio work and am starting to do strength training, but the food choices I make are still of the highest importance.
 
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