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(Slate)   The latest generation of farmers are apparently all hipsters   (slate.com) divider line 77
    More: Unlikely, C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America, farmers  
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5455 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Mar 2014 at 5:52 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 05:34:08 PM  
October.
 
2014-03-09 05:53:40 PM  
No, farmers don't look that grubby.
 
2014-03-09 05:59:01 PM  
It looks as though they each produce 1% of the food they'd need to feed themselves.
 
2014-03-09 05:59:11 PM  
Did someone read my opinion against Hipster farmers and made a post out of it from the last Hipster thread today? If so good job! I still hope it isn't true and the people doing this farming are honestly doing it because they want to farm and grow their own food and sell it to people who will enjoy it. I would hate to find that a majority of them are doing it as a status symbol and overprice their products for the Hipster market to further overprice their restaurant menus.
 
2014-03-09 06:00:15 PM  
Isn't being a hipster all about "I was into it before it was cool"?

Then wouldn't that make all the midwestern farmers the actual hipsters in this case?  The young crowds are the ones trying to get involved in it, and the rural country folk were all into it before it was cool.
 
2014-03-09 06:03:17 PM  
Yep, same with most trades these days.  Xers raised by boomers don't want the same kinds of lifestyles their parents led.
 
2014-03-09 06:03:32 PM  

alternaloser: It looks as though they each produce 1% of the food they'd need to feed themselves.


/|\ Wake me when they can export 1,000's of tonnes of wheat, corn, soy beans and other grains to Africa and the world... US agriculture feeds not only the USA with the lowest prices/ most abundant quantities and selections... but then exports so much of this to the rest of the world... I know anti-America/ Anti-corp farming  folks don't like different GMO type crops, but let those folks step up to the plate to feed Africa, then I will respect them in the morning...
 
2014-03-09 06:05:10 PM  
You know you would.
img.fark.net
And I don't mean the chicken...or do I?
 
2014-03-09 06:06:39 PM  
"I was curious to see what it looked like, to see what was happening with young college graduates starting CSAs and leasing plots of land or starting urban farms and rooftop farms," she said.

That's not farming, that's having a garden you ignorant fark.
 
2014-03-09 06:09:20 PM  
Why do people keep writing articles about every little things hipsters get into?

Everyone hates hipsters,  so why would you want to hear about them?

/I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me
 
2014-03-09 06:12:15 PM  
Well, when there are no jobs, or your jobs don't pay enough to live, you get farming.

Farming is hard.  I know. I grew up farming.  We went broke. Thankfully by then the town nearby was a lot bigger and they wanted our land for houses.  That's my parent's pension now.

no degree needed, don't have to speak English, just have to work 12 hours a day and kiss your weekends goodbye if you want to earn a living.

Young people aren't "discovering" farming.  They have almost no options anymore.  I grow to supplement our diet but I know how much bigger and harder it would be for me to quit my day job and try to live like that.  no thanks.
 
2014-03-09 06:13:20 PM  

rkiller1: You know you would.
[img.fark.net image 278x287]
And I don't mean the chicken...or do I?


Eeek.
 
2014-03-09 06:14:54 PM  
If only we could all go back to the 1900s.
 
2014-03-09 06:15:32 PM  

Boo_Guy: Why do people keep writing articles about every little things hipsters get into?

Everyone hates hipsters,  so why would you want to hear about them?

/I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me


I once asked a hipster how they make organic honey, since the bees won't stop at the edge of the farm and avoid the plants that used pesticides.  I was honestly curious, but they took it as an insult.
 
2014-03-09 06:15:48 PM  

rkiller1: You know you would.
[img.fark.net image 278x287]
And I don't mean the chicken...or do I?


she looks hairy
 
2014-03-09 06:17:23 PM  

mgshamster: Boo_Guy: Why do people keep writing articles about every little things hipsters get into?

Everyone hates hipsters,  so why would you want to hear about them?

/I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me

I once asked a hipster how they make organic honey, since the bees won't stop at the edge of the farm and avoid the plants that used pesticides.  I was honestly curious, but they took it as an insult.



http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/compound-eye/2011/08/11/organic- ho ney-is-a-sweet-illusion/
 
2014-03-09 06:17:30 PM  
They aren't farmers, they're "young people" who are trying to "get involved" in the "sustainable" food movement.

Normally the sarcasm quotes are just an indicator of sarcasm or other extreme skepticism, but in this case... well, they indicate words used to basically mean something entirely different than what their actual meaning is.  This goes double for "sustainable", since small-scale farming by hand is the opposite of that and organic is the opposite of that times a thousand.

I'm not really even being very hyperbolic here, organic anything can be entirely accurately defined as producing food in the least sustainable manner physically and mathematically possible.

Boo_Guy: /I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me


All right, in fairness you've found the one actual useful thing that micro-farmers and hipster douchebags do.  Mainly because there aren't really any advanced techniques to intentionally ignore in beekeeping, it's simple even where it's difficult and you have to either do it properly or not at all... and bee populations increasing is both a good thing for agriculture and doesn't really have any net negative resource cost.

// There are people that are  actuallydoing low-cost, low-impact farming.  They're called hippies, and you'll never see 'em in the news because their either live in subsistence communes (sustainable in the literal sense of feeding themselves, not really in the larger sense of helping the planet, but closer than the microfarm douches) or gave up and became suburbanites decades ago.
 
2014-03-09 06:17:36 PM  

dbaggins: I grow to supplement our diet


Apparently, doing that makes you one of the bad awful hipsters.

Just ask these guys:

Swampmaster: alternaloser: It looks as though they each produce 1% of the food they'd need to feed themselves.

/|\ Wake me when they can export 1,000's of tonnes of wheat, corn, soy beans and other grains to Africa and the world...

 
2014-03-09 06:19:26 PM  

rkiller1: You know you would.
[img.fark.net image 278x287]
And I don't mean the chicken...or do I?


www.thevintagebazaar.com
awww, she's all grown up now.
 
2014-03-09 06:20:29 PM  
mgshamster:

I once asked a hipster how they make organic honey, since the bees won't stop at the edge of the farm and avoid the plants that used pesticides.  I was honestly curious, but they took it as an insult.

Your question made me curious about that as well.   Here's the quick answer google told me:

...the two main criteria for organic honey are:
- The few surrounding miles (where the bees can fly) must be certified as organic and not contain any pesticides or chemicals.
- What is used inside the hives must not contain any synthetic chemicals that are prohibited by the EU.


http://livingmaxwell.com/organic-honey-certified

So, nothing 100%, but basically promises no foreign sources for the hive..
 
2014-03-09 06:21:01 PM  

mgshamster: dbaggins: I grow to supplement our diet

Apparently, doing that makes you one of the bad awful hipsters.



I dunno, he seems to be pretty aware that he's just got a garden and isn't actually a farmer, that's not anywhere near the amount of stick up his ass that he'd need to become one of the hipsters TFA's documenting.  No self-awareness or actual knowledge of the science seems to be allowed.
 
2014-03-09 06:21:07 PM  

Jim_Callahan: They aren't farmers, they're "young people" who are trying to "get involved" in the "sustainable" food movement.


Normally the sarcasm quotes are just an indicator of sarcasm or other extreme skepticism, but in this case... well, they indicate words used to basically mean something entirely different than what their actual meaning is.  This goes double for "sustainable", since small-scale farming by hand is the opposite of that and organic is the opposite of that times a thousand.


I'm not really even being very hyperbolic here, organic anything can be entirely accurately defined as producing food in the least sustainable manner physically and mathematically possible.


Boo_Guy: /I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me


All right, in fairness you've found the one actual useful thing that micro-farmers and hipster douchebags do.  Mainly because there aren't really any advanced techniques to intentionally ignore in beekeeping, it's simple even where it's difficult and you have to either do it properly or not at all... and bee populations increasing is both a good thing for agriculture and doesn't really have any net negative resource cost.


// There are people that are  actuallydoing low-cost, low-impact farming.  They're called hippies, and you'll never see 'em in the news because their either live in subsistence communes (sustainable in the literal sense of feeding themselves, not really in the larger sense of helping the planet, but closer than the microfarm douches) or gave up and became suburbanites decades ago.



How about we call them "gardeners" and everyone lightens up a bit?
 
2014-03-09 06:21:46 PM  

dbaggins: mgshamster: Boo_Guy: Why do people keep writing articles about every little things hipsters get into?

Everyone hates hipsters,  so why would you want to hear about them?

/I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me

I once asked a hipster how they make organic honey, since the bees won't stop at the edge of the farm and avoid the plants that used pesticides.  I was honestly curious, but they took it as an insult.


http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/compound-eye/2011/08/11/organic- ho ney-is-a-sweet-illusion/


Thanks.  That was just as I suspected.
 
2014-03-09 06:24:09 PM  

Jim_Callahan: No self-awareness or actual knowledge of the science seems to be allowed.


That seems to be a fair assessment.
 
2014-03-09 06:24:28 PM  

TheJonesBoy: How about we call them "gardeners" and everyone lightens up a bit?


Organic gardens are also at terrible, terrible resource black hole, both in financial and environmental terms.

Non-organic gardens actually approach full-scale operations in resource and monetary efficiency with fairly minimal effort for certain resource-intensive crops (notably: tomatoes, carrots) if you're growing in the right climate band, because GMO plants are farkin' awesome.
 
2014-03-09 06:25:21 PM  

TheJonesBoy: Jim_Callahan: They aren't farmers, they're "young people" who are trying to "get involved" in the "sustainable" food movement.


Normally the sarcasm quotes are just an indicator of sarcasm or other extreme skepticism, but in this case... well, they indicate words used to basically mean something entirely different than what their actual meaning is.  This goes double for "sustainable", since small-scale farming by hand is the opposite of that and organic is the opposite of that times a thousand.


I'm not really even being very hyperbolic here, organic anything can be entirely accurately defined as producing food in the least sustainable manner physically and mathematically possible.


Boo_Guy: /I'm be on the roof with my free range honey bees if anyone needs me


All right, in fairness you've found the one actual useful thing that micro-farmers and hipster douchebags do.  Mainly because there aren't really any advanced techniques to intentionally ignore in beekeeping, it's simple even where it's difficult and you have to either do it properly or not at all... and bee populations increasing is both a good thing for agriculture and doesn't really have any net negative resource cost.


// There are people that are  actuallydoing low-cost, low-impact farming.  They're called hippies, and you'll never see 'em in the news because their either live in subsistence communes (sustainable in the literal sense of feeding themselves, not really in the larger sense of helping the planet, but closer than the microfarm douches) or gave up and became suburbanites decades ago.


How about we call them "gardeners" and everyone lightens up a bit?

I can agree with this.

 
2014-03-09 06:27:30 PM  

dbaggins: Well, when there are no jobs, or your jobs don't pay enough to live, you get farming.

Farming is hard.  I know. I grew up farming.  We went broke. Thankfully by then the town nearby was a lot bigger and they wanted our land for houses.  That's my parent's pension now.

no degree needed, don't have to speak English, just have to work 12 hours a day and kiss your weekends goodbye if you want to earn a living.

Young people aren't "discovering" farming.  They have almost no options anymore.  I grow to supplement our diet but I know how much bigger and harder it would be for me to quit my day job and try to live like that.  no thanks.


bullshiat to the last paragraph
 
2014-03-09 06:28:25 PM  
i blame eva gabor for making it look glamorous
 
2014-03-09 06:29:13 PM  
www.slate.com

Three kinds of meat. Your choice, $8.99 / lb, today only.
 
2014-03-09 06:30:02 PM  

dbaggins: Well, when there are no jobs, or your jobs don't pay enough to live, you get farming.

Farming is hard.  I know. I grew up farming.  We went broke. Thankfully by then the town nearby was a lot bigger and they wanted our land for houses.  That's my parent's pension now.

no degree needed, don't have to speak English, just have to work 12 hours a day and kiss your weekends goodbye if you want to earn a living.

Young people aren't "discovering" farming.  They have almost no options anymore.  I grow to supplement our diet but I know how much bigger and harder it would be for me to quit my day job and try to live like that.  no thanks.




I grew up in a farm family in Indiana. Our land is now where warehouses are sitting. It was a hell life. These people in the articles are not farmers. They are gardeners. They never had to detassle corn in rows a mile and a half long nor breathe in chemicals that caused prostrate cancer, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

There are two minds in farming. It's either your life or a death sentence. All in or all out.
 
2014-03-09 06:30:50 PM  
Awwww, how cute.  More people who think that their big gardens can actually have an impact on the global food supply.
 
2014-03-09 06:32:15 PM  

tracy: mgshamster:

I once asked a hipster how they make organic honey, since the bees won't stop at the edge of the farm and avoid the plants that used pesticides.  I was honestly curious, but they took it as an insult.

Your question made me curious about that as well.   Here's the quick answer google told me:

...the two main criteria for organic honey are:
- The few surrounding miles (where the bees can fly) must be certified as organic and not contain any pesticides or chemicals.
- What is used inside the hives must not contain any synthetic chemicals that are prohibited by the EU.

http://livingmaxwell.com/organic-honey-certified

So, nothing 100%, but basically promises no foreign sources for the hive..


Well, considering how bees acquire materials for making wax and honey, there can literally be no promise for foreign sources in a hive. They literally collect pollen and other foreign sources in order to make their hive.

With organic food, however, the concern is on pesticides and other scary sounding chemical names.  One thing I've also never been able to get an organic farmer or advocate to explain to me is what the dose/response level for these chemicals are and at what levels are they present. The answers I have always received have been some sort of variance of "natural vs unnatural" and "chemicals are bad, mkay?" Neither of which answer the question, and both of which require a misunderstanding or ignorance of chemistry and biology in order to believe.
 
2014-03-09 06:32:51 PM  
The best you can hope for in honey is that the beekeeper doesn't apply miticide on the hives and that a fair proportion of the plants collected from are wild.  Organic honey producers can't be part of the annual pollination migration.

most honey is from the traveling hives that move through the US for the annual pollination.  plants and trees cannot have pesticides on them when the bees show up.  Beekeepers black-list you if they find out.  But during bloom there are no insects that are a problem.  What you are going to get is a tremendous fark load of fungicide.  During bloom we had the trees sprayed with fungicide repeatedly.  and bees are accumulators.

So, the main difference between organic and regular honey is the fungicide level.   Honey itself has natural fungicides in there as well, so perhaps it doesn't matter.
 
2014-03-09 06:34:46 PM  
I approve of this.

Taking responsibility for what you eat is the most revolutionary acts that there is.
 
2014-03-09 06:36:31 PM  
So they are growing large gardens/keeping a few head of chicken or goats as a hobby.  So what?  The real work of farming gets done by professionals and organic heritage watercress, free range honey or whatever gets grown by serious hobbyists.

I really don't see the harm.  Some of the stuff might even be good.
 
2014-03-09 06:36:51 PM  

Jim_Callahan: TheJonesBoy: How about we call them "gardeners" and everyone lightens up a bit?

Organic gardens are also at terrible, terrible resource black hole, both in financial and environmental terms.

Non-organic gardens actually approach full-scale operations in resource and monetary efficiency with fairly minimal effort for certain resource-intensive crops (notably: tomatoes, carrots) if you're growing in the right climate band, because GMO plants are farkin' awesome.


One of the bigger issues I see in the small scale organic farming industry is the confusion of cause and effect for farming.  I know quite a few small scale organic farmers, and all of them conflate certain issues with conventional farming, such as blaming a lack of crop rotation on the use of pesticides. They claim that organic farming is the key to solving all of our farming problems, while ignoring that some of the problems we encounter isn't caused by using pesticides.  The issues are more complex.
 
2014-03-09 06:41:26 PM  

LordOfThePings: [www.slate.com image 425x333]

Three kinds of meat. Your choice, $8.99 / lb, today only.


Not bad.  That baby is free range, right?
 
2014-03-09 06:43:52 PM  
www.slate.com
I don't know whether to make a joke about a little pianist or about a boy and his cock. Either way, it's bad.
 
2014-03-09 06:43:55 PM  
grist.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-03-09 06:45:35 PM  
As for "Can you really make a difference with your itty-bitty garden/farm?"

http://1bog.org/blog/live-off-the-land-2/

yes.  It you don't live in the urban core of the city and you don't bother with fully organic. 2 acres is if you buy your corn.  Given today's gigantic industrial scale corn farming, just buy the stuff, way cheaper than doing it yourself.  If you are OK with buying your wheat for the same reason you van get down to about 1.5 acres per adult.

In the city the heart of a city that is not reasonable.  You could do it in Detroit though. I see 2-3 acre lots available around here pretty often.
 
2014-03-09 06:46:16 PM  
If you don't know what the following are, you are not a farmer and you need to tuck it in and move back to family and friends:

www.cvs.com

pics1.ds-static.com

Also, if you aren't prepared to eat the following as hot cereal during hard times, just go back from whence you came:

www.oklahomahistory.net
 
2014-03-09 06:54:19 PM  
The usual issue with farming is that your soil conditions and climate probably are only optimal for a narrow range of crop.  Your best economics would then say just grow that crop, and go to market.  Specialize, economies of scale, etc.

...and slowly you go broke and starve since they have much larger industrial farms and foreign producers have better economics and keep prices too low for you to make it work.

So, a pure market model is not representative here.
 
2014-03-09 06:54:56 PM  

dbaggins: The best you can hope for in honey is that the beekeeper doesn't apply miticide on the hives and that a fair proportion of the plants collected from are wild.  Organic honey producers can't be part of the annual pollination migration.

most honey is from the traveling hives that move through the US for the annual pollination.


No, most honey is from China.

Yes, organic honey is extremely rare.  What you want is treatment free honey, and honey that isn't mixed with sugar syrup-- which most beekeepers, and all large-scale beekeepers feed their bees.

The best way to get decent honey is to buy raw honey from a local beekeeper who does not treat with miticides, antibiotics, and fungicides and who is very careful not to feed when his supers are being filled by the bees on a nectar flow.  And even then, bees move honey and syrup around, so it's virtually impossible to find honey that does not contain some sugar syrup.

And for all you dimwits who are making fun of young farmers because of their fashion sense, where do you think your food is going to come from in the future?  The average age of farmers in now well over 60.  Robots?  Yeah that's the  ticket.

Yes, there are dilettantes in every field, but some young farmers are serious:

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/17987/20110711/far me rs-under-40-young-farmers-have-market-savvy
 
2014-03-09 07:03:23 PM  

knobmaker: And for all you dimwits who are making fun of young farmers because of their fashion sense, where do you think your food is going to come from in the future? The average age of farmers in now well over 60. Robots? Yeah that's the ticket


www.wambooli.com
Huey, Dewey and Louie did just fine.
 
2014-03-09 07:04:09 PM  
how dare they
 
2014-03-09 07:05:27 PM  
No one in that article was a farmer..
 
2014-03-09 07:05:44 PM  
Brooklyn, NY?   Venice, CA?

That's not farming, that's gardening.
 
2014-03-09 07:06:47 PM  

Swampmaster: alternaloser: It looks as though they each produce 1% of the food they'd need to feed themselves.

/|\ Wake me when they can export 1,000's of tonnes of wheat, corn, soy beans and other grains to Africa and the world... US agriculture feeds not only the USA with the lowest prices/ most abundant quantities and selections... but then exports so much of this to the rest of the world... I know anti-America/ Anti-corp farming  folks don't like different GMO type crops, but let those folks step up to the plate to feed Africa, then I will respect them in the morning...


Agreed, this boutique organic farming is all well and good, but does it scale? It reminds me of an article I read where they had invented a 3d food printer that used really basic protein, fat, sugar, and carb powders and made something edible, but not great. So many people were crying about how they should instead focus on sustainable organic growing in these famine-ridden regions. I'm not against that, but to act like you're doing some terrible harm to them by providing them 30 year shelf-stable food that will keep them alive during a famine is insane.
 
2014-03-09 07:11:14 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Did someone read my opinion against Hipster farmers and made a post out of it from the last Hipster thread today? If so good job! I still hope it isn't true and the people doing this farming are honestly doing it because they want to farm and grow their own food and sell it to people who will enjoy it. I would hate to find that a majority of them are doing it as a status symbol and overprice their products for the Hipster market to further overprice their restaurant menus.


Peeps in TFA were talking about a way to counter the "broken farm system."  I already suspected they were morons, but that statement confirmed it.
 
2014-03-09 07:16:23 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: Did someone read my opinion against Hipster farmers and made a post out of it from the last Hipster thread today? If so good job! I still hope it isn't true and the people doing this farming are honestly doing it because they want to farm and grow their own food and sell it to people who will enjoy it. I would hate to find that a majority of them are doing it as a status symbol and overprice their products for the Hipster market to further overprice their restaurant menus.


One statement I heard on a documentary about coffee was the guy who founded Pete's Coffee (I think it was Pete's). He stated going into the business that they were going to charge more than any competitor for a cup of coffee. And they succeeded with that business plan.
 
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