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4388 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Mar 2014 at 5:42 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-03-09 09:22:55 PM  

whidbey: machoprogrammer: whidbey: machoprogrammer: My god, you really are a partisan hack.

My god you really don't have any real rebuttal to my comments.

Apparently you didn't read my post there, bro, so I will repeat the gist of my post. How is the "you're either for us or against us" attitude of the Bush administration justification for not only enacting it, but renewing it later? I will give those voting for it 10 days after 9/11 a slight pass (although they should've known better and actually read it, since you know, it is their job), but renewing it? There's no excuse for that shiat and you know it

I don't agree with their decision to renew or expand PATRIOT, but clearly the reasons lie with the failed foreign policy decisions made during the Bush years. And yes, there is still a stigma in Congress about not being "tough enough" on national defense.


This. Democrats aren't perfect, by any means; We need a far, FAR more liberal party with power if we're ever gonna progress as a nation. But as it is, we have a choice between the people who voted for the PATRIOT act due to political pressure, and the people who wrote it. A choice between the people who voted for the NDAA to pay our troops, and the people who attached an asinine rider to it.

/Incidentally, the rider didn't actually do anything anyway; everything the rider permitted was already legal due to Bush's AUMF that passed a week after 9/11. Adding it in was a purely political move that changed nothing.
 
2014-03-09 09:23:44 PM  

SpacePirate: whidbey: SpacePirate: Dennis Kucinich is basically my Ron Paul right now.

He was all right, but he got stupid too, especially in the past few years.

At least he isn't a total prude.

Nah, he's not too bad. Check him out recently:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130819/01445524226/rep-dennis-kuc in ich-abolish-nsa-give-snowden-parade.shtml


I agree with him, but obviously he doesn't deal with government hardliners who would pressure him to keep the NSA going.

He got primaried for telling the truth a little bit too often, IMO. Haha, it'd be hard for him to be a prude with that smoking hot wife of his.

I just don't think he's going to get anywhere. He has a lot of good ideas, but he's just too extreme. It's like pick one big cause and stick with it. Doesn't bode well for moderate support.
 
2014-03-09 09:26:48 PM  

BMFPitt: Actually the posts got blurred together and I thought he was responding to whidbey.


haha

first you complain that Fark is an echo chamber because your arguments don't get any traction

and now since you don't have any real criticisms of Obama it must be because people like me are just lockstep lackeys.

Dude. Just too funny.
 
2014-03-09 09:27:19 PM  

StanTheMan: The only thing better than gridlock would be if Congress started actually repealing its farkups.

Hopefully, they'll start with Obamacare with the new Republican Senate in Jan 2015.


Hopefully start by extending Obamacare to cover everyone with "Medicaid for All".

FITY.
 
2014-03-09 09:30:05 PM  

fusillade762: It's not just Congress that's split - the public is divided on nearly every issue, too.

I'm gonna need a citation on that, NPR.


Really? You're going to need a citation on the statement that the public is divided on:

abortion
capital punishment
health care reform
military spending
gay marriage

Do I need to go on?

You really think the public is in agreement on any of those?

I'm a liberal as they come, but come on... you can't ignore reality. Not everybody agrees with you.
 
2014-03-09 09:33:25 PM  

dave2198: fusillade762: It's not just Congress that's split - the public is divided on nearly every issue, too.

I'm gonna need a citation on that, NPR.

Really? You're going to need a citation on the statement that the public is divided on:

abortion
capital punishment
health care reform
military spending
gay marriage

Do I need to go on?

You really think the public is in agreement on any of those?

I'm a liberal as they come, but come on... you can't ignore reality. Not everybody agrees with you.


This. If the public had any sense of unity, they would have told the social conservatives in Congress to fark off by now. And given that the House and Senate are going to see seats won by the Republicans,

they haven't.
 
2014-03-09 09:34:48 PM  

LordJiro: whidbey: machoprogrammer: whidbey: machoprogrammer: My god, you really are a partisan hack.

My god you really don't have any real rebuttal to my comments.

Apparently you didn't read my post there, bro, so I will repeat the gist of my post. How is the "you're either for us or against us" attitude of the Bush administration justification for not only enacting it, but renewing it later? I will give those voting for it 10 days after 9/11 a slight pass (although they should've known better and actually read it, since you know, it is their job), but renewing it? There's no excuse for that shiat and you know it

I don't agree with their decision to renew or expand PATRIOT, but clearly the reasons lie with the failed foreign policy decisions made during the Bush years. And yes, there is still a stigma in Congress about not being "tough enough" on national defense.

This. Democrats aren't perfect, by any means; We need a far, FAR more liberal party with power if we're ever gonna progress as a nation. But as it is, we have a choice between the people who voted for the PATRIOT act due to political pressure, and the people who wrote it. A choice between the people who voted for the NDAA to pay our troops, and the people who attached an asinine rider to it.

/Incidentally, the rider didn't actually do anything anyway; everything the rider permitted was already legal due to Bush's AUMF that passed a week after 9/11. Adding it in was a purely political move that changed nothing.


Here I go again, having to link to that shiatty blog and wikipedia. Inform yourself.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/joe-biden-drafted-the-core-of -t he-patriot-act-in-1995-before-the-oklahoma-city-bombing.html 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_of_1995 

whidbey: SpacePirate: whidbey: SpacePirate: Dennis Kucinich is basically my Ron Paul right now.

He was all right, but he got stupid too, especially in the past few years.

At least he isn't a total prude.

Nah, he's not too bad. Check him out recently:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130819/01445524226/rep-dennis-kuc in ich-abolish-nsa-give-snowden-parade.shtml

I agree with him, but obviously he doesn't deal with government hardliners who would pressure him to keep the NSA going.

He got primaried for telling the truth a little bit too often, IMO. Haha, it'd be hard for him to be a prude with that smoking hot wife of his.

I just don't think he's going to get anywhere. He has a lot of good ideas, but he's just too extreme. It's like pick one big cause and stick with it. Doesn't bode well for moderate support.


That's possible, but if you're going to go for it, you might as well go big or go home. I don't think the Tea Party is a threat on the Presidential level at this point, anyway. Rand (ohshiat, I name-dropped a Paul, forgive me) would even back him up on that one.

Really, I'm going to be looking for any non-establishment types in the '16 primaries. With a voting record this time hopefully.
 
2014-03-09 09:36:22 PM  

whidbey: first you complain that Fark is an echo chamber because your arguments don't get any traction


Or I mocked some people it was a thread where they were telling each other they "weren't liberal enough" and complaining about imaginary Republicans.  One or the other.

and now since you don't have any real criticisms of Obama it must be because people like me are just lockstep lackeys.

Well other Obama supporters are telling you you're a lockstep lackey, so there's that.

Also, what are you even taking about?
 
2014-03-09 09:37:15 PM  

SpacePirate: whidbey: SpacePirate: whidbey: Gyrfalcon: whidbey: BMFPitt: whidbey: And I'll go as far to say that PATRIOT hasn't been repealed now because of the social conservatives.

Yeah, Obama, Hillary and Co. definitely didn't extend the Patriot Act in 2011. Nor did they expand upon it with the NDAA. It's all those social conservative's fault. Dude..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8

You've clearly made your mind up.

You're not going to research some of the reasons why these things happened, you're just going to trust some soundbite that continues to reinforce your weak arguments.

Again, I can't believe we're still discussing this, that somehow Bush didn't totally fark up this country while in office, and that Obama is not the dictator you're looking for to somehow magically undo everything.

You just want cherry picked answers. And this is the 3rd time I've reminded you that you are not willing to find other pieces of the story.

The only possible defense I can think of is that once elected, they realized the depths of how farked up the world might really be and changed their minds. But I doubt that, and I suppose we wouldn't find out if that was the case. But that's not your argument. Your argument amounts to, "Boo, they were intimidated so it didn't really countlol" Even years later after extensions and expansions. You can be a real troll when you want to be. :P


It's not the best argument I've ever heard, I have to say. Like I already said, either nobody gets a pass for voting for Patriot--regardless of their motives at the time, whether to appear patriotic because they were scared or to spy on everyone--or everyone does, for the same reasons. Just like the general public--either you were against war in Iraq at the time, or you were for it; the fact that everyone now has 20/20 hindsight and is all hurt and sad because "But Bush lied to us [pout]!" does not excuse anyone either, in my mind. I had the same information as everyone else. And everyone in Congress was under the same pressure and constraints.

No: If we are all responsible for our actions, then the Congressmembers who voted for Patriot in 2001 are culpable, whether it was from fear of public censure or craven self-preservation or apathy or malice. And the ones who voted against it--don't exist.
 
2014-03-09 09:40:35 PM  

BMFPitt: whidbey: first you complain that Fark is an echo chamber because your arguments don't get any traction

Or I mocked some people it was a thread where they were telling each other they "weren't liberal enough" and complaining about imaginary Republicans.  One or the other.

and now since you don't have any real criticisms of Obama it must be because people like me are just lockstep lackeys.

Well other Obama supporters are telling you you're a lockstep lackey, so there's that.


No they aren't.

So you're going to add "making up shiat" to your resume here as well?

Also, what are you even taking about?

I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.
 
2014-03-09 09:53:25 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The only possible defense I can think of is that once elected, they realized the depths of how farked up the world might really be and changed their minds. But I doubt that, and I suppose we wouldn't find out if that was the case. But that's not your argument. Your argument amounts to, "Boo, they were intimidated so it didn't really count lol" Even years later after extensions and expansions. You can be a real troll when you want to be. :P


It's not the best argument I've ever heard, I have to say.


Seeing as how I didn't even make that argument, agreed.

Like I already said, either nobody gets a pass for voting for Patriot--regardless of their motives at the time, whether to appear patriotic because they were scared or to spy on everyone--or everyone does, for the same reasons. Just like the general public--either you were against war in Iraq at the time, or you were for it; the fact that everyone now has 20/20 hindsight and is all hurt and sad because "But Bush lied to us [pout]!" does not excuse anyone either, in my mind. I had the same information as everyone else. And everyone in Congress was under the same pressure and constraints.

No: If we are all responsible for our actions, then the Congressmembers who voted for Patriot in 2001 are culpable, whether it was from fear of public censure or craven self-preservation or apathy or malice. And the ones who voted against it--don't exist.

Like I already said, either nobody gets a pass for voting for Patriot--regardless of their motives at the time, whether to appear patriotic because they were scared or to spy on everyone--or everyone does, for the same reasons. Just like the general public--either you were against war in Iraq at the time, or you were for it; the fact that everyone now has 20/20 hindsight and is all hurt and sad because "But Bush lied to us [pout]!" does not excuse anyone either, in my mind. I had the same information as everyone else. And everyone in Congress was under the same pressure and constraints.

Again, there's very black and white of you. It ignores the intimidation the Bush administration forced onto Congress, and it also ignores the very real international conflict we were saddled with post-Bush.

And while you might think it best to be cavalier and pull out the rug while we're fighting an enemy, I'm not sure if I share that. Granted, we need to become a more diplomatic nation and seek peaceful solutions.
 
2014-03-09 09:53:35 PM  

whidbey: dave2198: fusillade762: It's not just Congress that's split - the public is divided on nearly every issue, too.

I'm gonna need a citation on that, NPR.

Really? You're going to need a citation on the statement that the public is divided on:

abortion
capital punishment
health care reform
military spending
gay marriage

Do I need to go on?

You really think the public is in agreement on any of those?

I'm a liberal as they come, but come on... you can't ignore reality. Not everybody agrees with you.

This. If the public had any sense of unity, they would have told the social conservatives in Congress to fark off by now. And given that the House and Senate are going to see seats won by the Republicans,

they haven't.


National polls show that 7 of 10 people want to raise the minimum wage. Similar numbers want term limits for Congress, support building the Keystone XL pipeline to bring oil from Canada and back using government money to make preschool available to every child.

My main problem was with the "nearly every" part.
 
2014-03-09 10:03:35 PM  

Gyrfalcon: SpacePirate: whidbey: SpacePirate: whidbey: Gyrfalcon: whidbey: BMFPitt: whidbey: And I'll go as far to say that PATRIOT hasn't been repealed now because of the social conservatives.

Yeah, Obama, Hillary and Co. definitely didn't extend the Patriot Act in 2011. Nor did they expand upon it with the NDAA. It's all those social conservative's fault. Dude..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BmdovYztH8

You've clearly made your mind up.

You're not going to research some of the reasons why these things happened, you're just going to trust some soundbite that continues to reinforce your weak arguments.

Again, I can't believe we're still discussing this, that somehow Bush didn't totally fark up this country while in office, and that Obama is not the dictator you're looking for to somehow magically undo everything.

You just want cherry picked answers. And this is the 3rd time I've reminded you that you are not willing to find other pieces of the story.

The only possible defense I can think of is that once elected, they realized the depths of how farked up the world might really be and changed their minds. But I doubt that, and I suppose we wouldn't find out if that was the case. But that's not your argument. Your argument amounts to, "Boo, they were intimidated so it didn't really countlol" Even years later after extensions and expansions. You can be a real troll when you want to be. :P

It's not the best argument I've ever heard, I have to say. Like I already said, either nobody gets a pass for voting for Patriot--regardless of their motives at the time, whether to appear patriotic because they were scared or to spy on everyone--or everyone does, for the same reasons. Just like the general public--either you were against war in Iraq at the time, or you were for it; the fact that everyone now has 20/20 hindsight and is all hurt and sad because "But Bush lied to us [pout]!" does not excuse anyone either, in my mind. I had the same information as everyone else. And everyone in Congress was under the same pressure and constraints.

No: If we are all responsible for our actions, then the Congressmembers who voted for Patriot in 2001 are culpable, whether it was from fear of public censure or craven self-preservation or apathy or malice. And the ones who voted against it--don't exist.


Heh, I feel like we are having the same snippet of conversation as the other day.

Personal responsibility and the motives to actions should be inseparable.

That doesn't mean I give anyone a pass on the patriot act, but I certainly don't lump them all together as equals.

That is unfortunately the problem with representative democracy. When, if ever, is it worth voting the wrong way to keep your seat and live to fight another day?

I always wonder how well I could hold my ethics together if I were a politician. Too well and I couldn't my job.
 
2014-03-09 10:04:14 PM  
Couldn't keep my job.
 
2014-03-09 10:09:52 PM  

Zeppelininthesky: Great_Milenko: enry: StanTheMan: The only thing better than gridlock would be if Congress started actually repealing its farkups.

Hopefully, they'll start with Obamacare with the new Republican Senate in Jan 2015.

And replace it with....?

Poor people dying.  Just like god intended.

Great_Milenko: enry: StanTheMan: The only thing better than gridlock would be if Congress started actually repealing its farkups.

Hopefully, they'll start with Obamacare with the new Republican Senate in Jan 2015.

And replace it with....?

Poor people dying.  Just like god intended.

They will replace it with tax cuts for the rich and elimination of food stamps. Couple that with closing woman's clinics and the "healthcare" plan is complete.


School lunch programs?  Fark those little shiats.  Let them sweep the hallways for their meals.  Empty garbage cans.  Gotta show 'em they're dirt.
 
2014-03-09 10:12:24 PM  
Back to the actual topic, NPR is full of shiat and they are making the same kind of tiresome "both sides are bad/the same/destroying America" kind of crap you'd expect here.

Never mind the total incongruity of both parties' actions and proposals over the past 5 years, they HAVE to be the same.

And since NPR said so, liberals also say so now.

amirite?
 
2014-03-09 10:12:44 PM  

whidbey: No they aren't.


I believe  Gyrfalcon supports Obama, and it appears that he is.

I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.

I can't help your delusions.

Smackledorfer: That is unfortunately the problem with representative democracy. When, if ever, is it worth voting the wrong way to keep your seat and live to fight another day?


Never.  Of course people with ethics can't get elected in the first place, so no worries about getting re-elected.
 
2014-03-09 10:14:58 PM  
Do you remember that movie The Box?  In the movie, when the box was opened, there was a button, and if you pressed that button, someone in the world will die randomly and you receive $1 million.

In my fantasy world, when you press the button a Republican legislator dies randomly.  I don't even want the money.  Just give me that box that does that.
 
2014-03-09 10:19:44 PM  

BMFPitt: whidbey: No they aren't.

I believe  Gyrfalcon supports Obama, and it appears that he is.


Actually, she still supports Obama. And we can disagree about things. It's allowed here.

I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.

I can't help your delusions.

Smackledorfer: That is unfortunately the problem with representative democracy. When, if ever, is it worth voting the wrong way to keep your seat and live to fight another day?

Never.  Of course people with ethics can't get elected in the first place, so no worries about getting re-elected.

BMFPitt: whidbey: No they aren't.

I believe  Gyrfalcon supports Obama, and it appears that he is.

I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.

I can't help your delusions.


I'm not the one deluded here. You think you just can just waltz into a forum, have your unworkable opinions validated, and then blame everyone else when it was your own shortcomings that got you where you were.

That is delusion. I await your next snarky projection.
 
2014-03-09 10:20:36 PM  
God I'm experiencing Fark Quoting Hell Syndrome.
 
2014-03-09 10:21:58 PM  

fusillade762: This. If the public had any sense of unity, they would have told the social conservatives in Congress to fark off by now. And given that the House and Senate are going to see seats won by the Republicans,

they haven't.


National polls show that 7 of 10 people want to raise the minimum wage. Similar numbers want term limits for Congress, support building the Keystone XL pipeline to bring oil from Canada and back using government money to make preschool available to every child.

My main problem was with the "nearly every" part.


Informal polls are one thing.

Election results are quite another. This country is deeply divided. Deal with it. It's not just a media invention.
 
2014-03-09 10:27:32 PM  
ABBAB, or "Always Be Berating and Belittling".
 
2014-03-09 10:27:57 PM  

Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Even NPR is being accused of being Republican, now?

They do bend over backwards to maintain an appearance of balance on many issues.

They also seem to have gotten worse over the last couple years.

I wouldn't call that Republican though.


I agree. I've noticed it too.  It isn't a bias, they're just whimps.

The Republican (or Democrat) could say something so factually wrong and devoid of any facts and yet the NPR host will just smile and agree without even bothering to challenge it. They don't challenge anything anyone says.
 
2014-03-09 10:29:01 PM  

Space Station Wagon: ABBAB, or "Always Be Berating and Belittling".


I was a big fan of their music.
 
2014-03-09 10:30:58 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Even NPR is being accused of being Republican, now?

They do bend over backwards to maintain an appearance of balance on many issues.

They also seem to have gotten worse over the last couple years.

I wouldn't call that Republican though.

I agree. I've noticed it too.  It isn't a bias, they're just whimps.

The Republican (or Democrat) could say something so factually wrong and devoid of any facts and yet the NPR host will just smile and agree without even bothering to challenge it. They don't challenge anything anyone says.


*shrugs*

It's yuppie radio. Leans on the cute and clever, stays away from the critical thinking. Because it's supposed to make you feel good when you're driving home from your 90 hour a week job, not remind you how bad things are.
 
2014-03-09 10:38:09 PM  

whidbey: Mrtraveler01: Smackledorfer: BMFPitt: Even NPR is being accused of being Republican, now?

They do bend over backwards to maintain an appearance of balance on many issues.

They also seem to have gotten worse over the last couple years.

I wouldn't call that Republican though.

I agree. I've noticed it too.  It isn't a bias, they're just whimps.

The Republican (or Democrat) could say something so factually wrong and devoid of any facts and yet the NPR host will just smile and agree without even bothering to challenge it. They don't challenge anything anyone says.

*shrugs*

It's yuppie radio. Leans on the cute and clever, stays away from the critical thinking. Because it's supposed to make you feel good when you're driving home from your 90 hour a week job, not remind you how bad things are.


Maybe, but Whidbey would settle for nothing short of a liberal rush limbaugh I imagine :)
 
2014-03-09 10:44:05 PM  

whidbey: Even I went along with what Bush was saying, and I farked hated him.


You just admitted that you're a blithering idiot.
 
2014-03-09 10:44:10 PM  

fusillade762: whidbey: dave2198: fusillade762: It's not just Congress that's split - the public is divided on nearly every issue, too.

I'm gonna need a citation on that, NPR.

Really? You're going to need a citation on the statement that the public is divided on:

abortion
capital punishment
health care reform
military spending
gay marriage

Do I need to go on?

You really think the public is in agreement on any of those?

I'm a liberal as they come, but come on... you can't ignore reality. Not everybody agrees with you.

This. If the public had any sense of unity, they would have told the social conservatives in Congress to fark off by now. And given that the House and Senate are going to see seats won by the Republicans,

they haven't.

National polls show that 7 of 10 people want to raise the minimum wage. Similar numbers want term limits for Congress, support building the Keystone XL pipeline to bring oil from Canada and back using government money to make preschool available to every child.

My main problem was with the "nearly every" part.


So in other words, none of the truly divisive issues which get people elected.
 
2014-03-09 10:44:36 PM  

whidbey: I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.
...
I'm not the one deluded here. You think you just can just waltz into a forum, have your unworkable opinions validated, and then blame everyone else when it was your own shortcomings that got you where you were.


The imaginary version of me in your head sounds like a dick.

whidbey: God I'm experiencing Fark Quoting Hell Syndrome.


At least we can agree to hate the new quote format.
 
2014-03-09 10:44:46 PM  

Smackledorfer: Maybe, but Whidbey would settle for nothing short of a liberal rush limbaugh I imagine :)


When I did listen to talk radio, I liked Phil Hartmann, Rachel Maddow and Democracy Now!
 
2014-03-09 10:46:08 PM  

whidbey: BMFPitt: whidbey: No they aren't.

I believe Gyrfalcon supports Obama, and it appears that he is.

Actually, she still supports Obama. And we can disagree about things. It's allowed here.

I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.

I can't help your delusions.


We (me & whidbey) often disagree about details. That's why we come here. I would never think my puerile arguments would change his mind, nor his mine. But at least I know he has the courage of his convictions. More than I can say about at least half the ITGs on Fark.
 
2014-03-09 10:46:16 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: You just admitted that you're a blithering idiot.


And a Bush-loving right-wing nutjob who should move to Somalia.

// Am I doing it right?
 
2014-03-09 10:47:24 PM  
but the health care law certainly hasn't gained popularity since its passage.

with Fox and every single republican hoping for reelection banging on it are you surprised NPR? stupid article is stupid.
 
2014-03-09 10:49:12 PM  

Gyrfalcon: We (me & whidbey) often disagree about details. That's why we come here. I would never think my puerile arguments would change his mind, nor his mine. But at least I know he has the courage of his convictions. More than I can say about at least half the ITGs on Fark.


So can we have an official ruling on whether you, as a fellow Obama supporter, were saying he was being a bit of a lockstep lackey?
 
2014-03-09 10:49:23 PM  

BMFPitt: whidbey: I'm saying get with it. Blaming me and other Farkers for your inability to make your position come across isn't going to make the cut.
...
I'm not the one deluded here. You think you just can just waltz into a forum, have your unworkable opinions validated, and then blame everyone else when it was your own shortcomings that got you where you were.


The imaginary version of me in your head sounds like a dick.


Well maybe when you call Fark a "liberal echo chamber" it's kind of hard to get off the list.

I dunno. What good things DO you support?
 
2014-03-09 10:50:16 PM  

BMFPitt: // Am I doing it right?


You?  Never.
 
2014-03-09 10:54:50 PM  
NPR/PBS can't report anything that would displease the Koch brothers, lest they want their funding cut off.
 
2014-03-09 11:01:01 PM  

dave2198: fusillade762: whidbey: dave2198: fusillade762: It's not just Congress that's split - the public is divided on nearly every issue, too.

I'm gonna need a citation on that, NPR.

Really? You're going to need a citation on the statement that the public is divided on:

abortion
capital punishment
health care reform
military spending
gay marriage

Do I need to go on?

You really think the public is in agreement on any of those?

I'm a liberal as they come, but come on... you can't ignore reality. Not everybody agrees with you.

This. If the public had any sense of unity, they would have told the social conservatives in Congress to fark off by now. And given that the House and Senate are going to see seats won by the Republicans,

they haven't.

National polls show that 7 of 10 people want to raise the minimum wage. Similar numbers want term limits for Congress, support building the Keystone XL pipeline to bring oil from Canada and back using government money to make preschool available to every child.

My main problem was with the "nearly every" part.

So in other words, none of the truly divisive issues which get people elected.


Plus he was saying what a great thing Keystone was.
 
2014-03-09 11:14:27 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Space Station Wagon: ABBAB, or "Always Be Berating and Belittling".

I was a big fan of their music.


With their hit song, "Dancing Queen, Who Does That biatch Think She Is".
 
2014-03-09 11:19:24 PM  

BMFPitt: Gyrfalcon: We (me & whidbey) often disagree about details. That's why we come here. I would never think my puerile arguments would change his mind, nor his mine. But at least I know he has the courage of his convictions. More than I can say about at least half the ITGs on Fark.

So can we have an official ruling on whether you, as a fellow Obama supporter, were saying he was being a bit of a lockstep lackey?


I think I said there was no excuse for anyone who voted for the Patriot act and they all deserved censure for their various craven and opportunistic reasons. Obama included. They were more than "lockstep lackeys", they were cowards, and it was unconscionable and wrong.
 
2014-03-09 11:22:01 PM  
Come armed this time, Republicans.

We double dog dare you.
 
2014-03-09 11:23:42 PM  

Gyrfalcon: BMFPitt: Gyrfalcon: We (me & whidbey) often disagree about details. That's why we come here. I would never think my puerile arguments would change his mind, nor his mine. But at least I know he has the courage of his convictions. More than I can say about at least half the ITGs on Fark.

So can we have an official ruling on whether you, as a fellow Obama supporter, were saying he was being a bit of a lockstep lackey?

I think I said there was no excuse for anyone who voted for the Patriot act and they all deserved censure for their various craven and opportunistic reasons. Obama included. They were more than "lockstep lackeys", they were cowards, and it was unconscionable and wrong.


I guess I don't understand how they were "cowards" if the threats seemed real enough at the time?

Also, do you really think we could have just pulled the plug on everything given that Bush's policies really did create enemies that we didn't have before?
 
2014-03-09 11:37:55 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: whidbey: Even I went along with what Bush was saying, and I farked hated him.

You just admitted that you're a blithering idiot.


I know, right? Yumpin' Yoises!

I hate Progressivism as deeply as anyone can hate something, so naturally the binary thinkers of this sorry world assume I loved Bush.

I can't think of a single thing that Bush said or did that I went along with. Certainly none of the big stuff -- the foreign wars, Gitmo, Patriot Act, NCLB, Medicare D, TARP. Not one.

Whidbey has never contributed any insight or noteworthy comment into any thread I've ever read. 99% of the time, it's bigot this and bigot that, pretending to be the arbiter of other people's contributions, and variations on the word "derp," which he must have copied from someone funnier than him. And now he admits to supporting George W. Bush at some point.

I didn't know someone's credibility could drop below zero. Until now.
 
2014-03-09 11:50:34 PM  

whidbey: Plus he was saying what a great thing Keystone was.


Now you're just putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that.
 
2014-03-09 11:53:05 PM  

fusillade762: whidbey: Plus he was saying what a great thing Keystone was.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that.


Whatever. So you don't admit you could be wrong, you're just going to admonish me for the snark.

OK. Well, then I'm going to go out on a limb and question your source. No way that many people are that stupid.
 
2014-03-10 12:22:17 AM  

whidbey: fusillade762: whidbey: Plus he was saying what a great thing Keystone was.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. Please don't do that.

Whatever. So you don't admit you could be wrong, you're just going to admonish me for the snark.

OK. Well, then I'm going to go out on a limb and question your source. No way that many people are that stupid.


www.washingtonpost.com

www.people-press.org

content.gallup.com

Please remember I'm just the messenger here. I don't personally think the pipeline is a good idea.
 
2014-03-10 12:32:13 AM  

fusillade762: Please remember I'm just the messenger here. I don't personally think the pipeline is a good idea.


All right, well, sorry for harshing you out, I guess I learned something here today:

Keystone XL Attracts Majority Support, Except Among Liberals

lulz
 
2014-03-10 12:45:09 AM  

whidbey: Gyrfalcon: BMFPitt: Gyrfalcon: We (me & whidbey) often disagree about details. That's why we come here. I would never think my puerile arguments would change his mind, nor his mine. But at least I know he has the courage of his convictions. More than I can say about at least half the ITGs on Fark.

So can we have an official ruling on whether you, as a fellow Obama supporter, were saying he was being a bit of a lockstep lackey?

I think I said there was no excuse for anyone who voted for the Patriot act and they all deserved censure for their various craven and opportunistic reasons. Obama included. They were more than "lockstep lackeys", they were cowards, and it was unconscionable and wrong.

I guess I don't understand how they were "cowards" if the threats seemed real enough at the time?

Also, do you really think we could have just pulled the plug on everything given that Bush's policies really did create enemies that we didn't have before?


Because the threats weren't real. That is, the war threats weren't real. The alleged WMDs were not real--this was known. Saddam's ties to 9/11 were not real--this was known. The so-called nuclear enrichment program was not real--this was known. The sanctions were working--this was known. Anyone with half a brain knew these things--they were in the 9/11 Commission Report, they had been in news reports, they were on the Internet. If you wanted to find more, it was available.

As to the "threat" of being called "unpatriotic"--that's b/s, as far as I'm concerned. This is still America. A charge of treason is hard to prove, and was harder still before we actually went to Iraq. So you didn't vote for a piece of legislation and the President called you unpatriotic--so what. It was 2001, the next election cycle wasn't coming up until next year, and people would have forgotten it by then. Regardless of the dread powers people like to impute to the President, wholesale imprisonment and execution aren't among them. So that's not something I'm prepared to allow people to claim.

For your last question: We had justification for going into Afghanistan, and the world did not hate us quite as actively then. We didn't have all those enemies until we decided to go into Iraq with the reasons we used; so yes, absolutely we could have pulled the plug, as you say, in 2003, and gone back to the carrot instead of the stick. It was bullying everyone into supporting us in Iraq and pulling the Lone Cowboy act that alienated all our allies; and Obama has done a reasonably good job of reversing the trend in just a few short years even WITH our troops in Afghanistan (and Iraq until recently) by just not going in everywhere with fists flying.

I understand where you're coming from; and why you would think it was an insurmountable issue--but what's good for the goose is good for the gander imo. If Republicans were wrong to vote for the Patriot Act because patriotism, then Democrats were wrong to vote for it because fear. YMMV, and that's fine. We've got the damn thing now, and the better argument is How do we get rid of it?
 
2014-03-10 01:24:24 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Regardless of the dread powers people like to impute to the President, wholesale imprisonment and execution aren't among them. So that's not something I'm prepared to allow people to claim.


Well, they weren't, until the Obama administration made sure they were included, when there were even Republicans wanting those provisions removed.
 
2014-03-10 01:31:56 AM  

s2s2s2: Gyrfalcon: Regardless of the dread powers people like to impute to the President, wholesale imprisonment and execution aren't among them. So that's not something I'm prepared to allow people to claim.

Well, they weren't, until the Obama administration made sure they were included, when there were even Republicans wanting those provisions removed.


Hurr wut
 
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